XMEGA

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#1
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Any one know much about the AVR XMEGA chips, I have just had someone arrange to come and see me next week to show me them. It would be nice to have some background so i know what he is talking about.

thanks

James

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Searching the Forums for "xmega" should uncover all that common people know about them.

It is encouraging just to hear that they may, in fact, be real. Report back as much as you will be allowed to say.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I will do its a distributer that is coming to see me they have just been to a seminar and think i will be intrested.

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I checked the Atmel website and found NOTHING about XMega. I used the parametric search on the 8-bit RISC processors and got nothing faster than 20MHz, so apparently the XMega devices are not there. None of the other microcontrollers seemed applicable either.

Where on the Atmel website might we find something about the XMega chips?

-Tony

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But that's the point - so far all anyone has heard are "whispers in the wind".

This thread (like several before it) provides a place to pool the rumours.

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so you are going to talk to someone, who claims to have seen one?!? get yourself a camcorder and record that event! it's historical ;) We too want to see/hear/read about that!!!

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I saw a whole spool of them being carried by Elvis into his UFO, but he took off before I could ask any questions.

Smiley

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bloody-orc wrote:
so you are going to talk to someone, who claims to have seen one?!? get yourself a camcorder and record that event! it's historical ;) We too want to see/hear/read about that!!!

goujam wrote:
I have just had someone arrange to come and see me next week to show me them.

To me, goujam's statement implies that the Atmel rep. will have some XMega's "In Hand... "

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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smileymicros wrote:
I saw a whole spool of them being carried by Elvis into his UFO, but he took off before I could ask any questions.

Smiley

It's at times like these; I wish the future you had not destroyed your time machine as you could have easily fixed this in so many ways! :lol:
Like going back to the future and returning with free samples of AVR's from 2010, 2020 or at least antique XMEGA's!!!

John

Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!

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I dont think he will have samples, he just wants to talk to me about them. I hope he will have some literature, he seem quite impressed by them so we shall see.

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I asked my distributor (http://www.spoerle.de) today about the availability of the XMega AVRs because they already have mentioned them in their online product listing. The sales guy replied, that they will hit the market at the first quarter of 2008 (March) - samples maybe a little bit earlier. I also asked him for further details about the new family and he said, that he will try to get some further infos. I will keep you informed.
So far, they are listing 10 different versions with the pin count, Flash-, eeprom- and SRAM- size but no further info. The biggest one comes with 256 KB Flash, 16K SRAM and 2Keeprom.

By the way - that was my first posting at the AVR freaks forum. I started my first little Atmel project two or three weeks ago and enjoy this forum a lot. Greetings to everyone...

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Welcome Elektro_Lurch, I am fairly new here as well i started AVR's 6 months ago.

It looks like your distributor Spoerle is part of the same company who are coming to see me Arrow Electronics.

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Yep - Spoerle is an Arrow company.

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Found There :

Quote:
Title: AVR Xmega Redefines the 8-bit World
Details: Atmel is presenting the new 8-bit ‘XMEGA‘ device able to perform 32 MIPS @ 32 MHz with an outstanding analogue capability; this device will be code-compatible with the existing MEGA & TINY on which we will give you an update, followed by a presentation on the ATMEL Zlink solution, a 2.4 GHz radio bundled with the AVR of your choice.

Author of simavr - Follow me on twitter : @buserror

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Two files from the internet

http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com...

http://www.improveatmel.com/pres... (see chart at page 17)

Attachment(s): 

Last Edited: Thu. Sep 20, 2007 - 09:10 PM
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Thanks Michael and lpapad!!!
John

Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!

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Wow, that one big corporate soap-opera going on in 'New_Atmel.pdf'. Perhaps something not meant for our eyes?

Matt.

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Last Edited: Thu. Sep 20, 2007 - 09:37 PM
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Wells
http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com...
is from Dean's Site he wouldn't publish it untill they say it's OK.
Cheers,
John

Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!

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Quote:

You can also find datasheets for the XMEGA TM A family here:

One word: Wow.

It looks like configuration of all the pin options will be quite a bit like starting up a SAM7S or similar.

A disappointment for us Mega48/88 fans: the small size has no analog.

I'm guessing this all won't be given away. It will be very interesting to get ballpark figures for the X vs. "comparable" Mega.

One surprise: No multiply-accumulate.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I found this on the Atmel web site.

http://www.atmel.com/ir/document...

It's referring to the XMEGA for 2005.

This one is from July 2007

http://media.corporate-ir.net/me...

Check out slide 13 too.

official AVR Consultant
www.veruslogic.com

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Quote:

Check out slide 13 too.

Where 76% would consider a PIC for their next design, and 32% an AVR?

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Xmega not too interesting for me as far as I can see.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:

Wells
http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com...
is from Dean's Site he wouldn't publish it untill they say it's OK.
Cheers,
John

Actually I haven't heard anything. Someone here posted it from god-knows-where, but it disappeared so I hosted it for them for AVRFreaks so it wouldn't screw up again. I haven't heard anything from Atmel so I assume it's ok - of course, if they ask I'm happy to take it down.

Apparently someone from a German AVR website found and hotlinked it, so now my logs show a large amount of hits off it from microcontroller.net each month. Lucky it wasn't a high-definition bandwidth-sucking movie!

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:
Where 73% would consider a PIC for their next design, and 32% an AVR?

Well, they accomplished what they wanted to with me on that one. I stopped at Freescale. :oops:

official AVR Consultant
www.veruslogic.com

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Quote:
I stopped at Freescale.
I hope you don't mean that you are using Freescale chips, you'll be sorry if so, spoken by experience.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:

Xmega not too interesting for me as far as I can see.

Spoken by a guy that rarely uses the A/D.

In most microcontroller apps (with emphasis on the "micro" and on the "controller") I rarely run out of gas with the current AVRs, even at modest clock rates. But there are a few jobs where the AVR >>is<< pushed, and a number of apps that are just not suitable. The Xmega should help in both cases--faster top clock speed, and ability to tackle some of the "unsuitable" apps (more on that later).

The claim is lower power than the P chips. Let's just call that a wash and say that the low-power modes are at least "very good". So we haven't lost anything there.

Some apps a 10-bit A/D just ain't enough. Not only do we get a 12-bit ADC, but much faster at Msps rather than Ksps. If really needed the big boys have two ADCs.

When a DAC is needed, having an integrated 12-bit DAC saves a buck or two vs. external DAC or the filter/driver parts needed for a PWM DAC.

I haven't read through the section on the serial peripherals (USART, TWI, SPI). But the list indicates there are LOTS of them. (In several apps we have used multiplexers to direct the limited number of AVR USARTs to different "destinations".)

Some have been disturbed at the lack of an interrupt-priority mechanism on AVRs. No longer.

Now, at least the ADC and serial peripherals can have DMA (and some double-buffered). I don't know whether input capture can also be DMAed, but I think the DAC. That, coupled with the other features above such as high-speed ADC will be of immense help in some apps that just aren't suitable for AVRs.

The I/O ports have a lot of configuration options that the AVR doesn't have now, such as push-pull and pull-down. Add in an accurate internal clock, a 1% reference, and a few other toyz and more AVR apps can be near-single-chip. The cost and size may well make up for a somewhat higher price.

As I mentioned earlier, many of the features seem to be the mechanisms used in the Atmel version of the ARM7TDMI/SAM7x chips. Top clock (flash read) speed about the same. ADC/DAC about the same. I/O pin configuration options about the same. Interrupt controller with many of the same capabilities.

If not too pricey I think it will be a hit in the middle of the range--an alternative to, say, a Mega324 app. Since the instruction set is (or seems to be) the same we can use our same tools that we already have--nearly all the new stuff is in I/O space. With the smallest having no ADC I don't see it squishing my Mega48/88 apps, though there are a couple that are running out of gas but are also price and size sensitive.

I'd say for me definitely VERY interesting. I'm anxiously waiting to see the price points and availability. Hopefully the smaller sizes will hit soon but the leaked documents pretty much are A1.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:
I hope you don't mean that you are using Freescale chips, you'll be sorry if so, spoken by experience.

No. I didn't consider the two other PIC product lines in my impression as theusch pointed out.

I agree on the Freescale thing. I went to one of their workshops once and the instructor couldn't get it to work. Code Worrier is a mess too.

official AVR Consultant
www.veruslogic.com

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Quote:

Well, they accomplished what they wanted to with me on that one. I stopped at Freescale. Embarassed

It WAS meant to be a slide flashed at a big meeting for the general population, after all. Of COURSE the spin-doctors are going to dig out some way to show Atmel/AVR with the longest tool (eerr--bar).

But for a new architecture in an already mature (the 8-bit micro was declared dead long ago) market the AVR has grown nicely to a significant market share and enough volume to be [quite--one of the other references] profitable.

The Xmega should help to address at least some of the concerns recently presented here with ARM and PSoC, for example.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I was told the ST ARM cortex parts have configurable I/O pins. So if you need an SPI AND input capture that share the same default pin, you can move the functions to other pins. Is this something we will see in the XMEGA?

official AVR Consultant
www.veruslogic.com

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Darn, John, you just ain't excited?!? With just the Xmega and a MMC you can make a 1Msps datalogger and have enough time left over to do digital filtering and/or data compression.

Or add a display and have a Msps digital 'scope with the only additional components being the ranging/protection on the probe inputs.

Or add on to that with logic analyzer.

Or finally have the AVR be able to do high-quality sound capture.

Or finally have the AVR have enough oomph to drive streaming peripherals like AC97 codecs.

Or finally be able to match Jesper's miniDDS without resorting to cycle counting.

After the Xmega learning curve all of the above are going to become starter apps that can be tossed together in a day or two. We already >>know<< how to drive our displays with AVRs; we already >>know<< how to communicate; etc.

And you aren't excited???

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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++ : As a first guess based on the A1 summary all Xmega will be rated to 125 degrees C.

-- : It looks like a 3.6V max supply. May not be a biggie nowadays.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:
And you aren't excited???
baaah humbug :lol: all I need is for Atmel to put DW on the M8515 and M8535, otherwise the current range is perfect. The M48/88/168 is the most I really need (M328 I'll get just for fun), I have done a few T2313 project. I have used M64 because I needed more pins to match the HC11 pins and the M128 so I could write "Hello world!" in C.
Memory wise I have never needed more than 8K so far and speed wise I use 8MHz as standard and many times I have to put a few nops to slow things down. Started to use the M164 only because I can use it to emulate the M8535 for debugging, JTAG is a pain otherwise. A DAC would come in handy in my current project but a simple R/2R network has been doing a good job for the past 15 years, also a 12 bit ADC but I use an external one anyway.
All I need is the current range to be available for a few more years and then I'll retire and start working with vacuum tube amplifiers :)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:

...and the M128 so I could write "Hello world!" in C.

LOL Good one.

Quote:

...Memory wise I have never needed more than 8K so far and speed wise I use 8MHz as standard...

Most of ours are 7.3728 and 3.6864 as well. I do have some 32k+ projects, but those are about 6 months (that's my rule-of-thumb: full Mega32 is 6 months; Mega48 is one month. Comes out pretty close with design & redesign & new board revs & ...).

But there are that 10% that could really use some of those features. And some that are just plain not attacked (see my list of "easy with Xmega apps above) 'cause a conventional AVR just won't hack it.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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According to the datasheets it'll be a VERY powerful thingie. 32MIPS is nice, but 2MSps 12bit ADC and 1MSps DAC makes me drool. Where can I get one!? I want my xmega!

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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all I can say is: DROOL-DROOL ;)
Angry Orc in a need of XMEGA!

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I just care about the DMA and prioritized interrupts. DAC will be nice as well, though to be honest I don't need DACs very often. But man do I love DMA...

I just wish they'd get off their bums and release the buggers.

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Hi,

Just to note that a man from Atmel on Friday assured me that these things may be a lot closer than you might think - probably can't say exactly when, but they do look like very sexy devices!

Cliff

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It's about time! Based on the leaked stuff they should have been trickling out a year ago.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
Based on the leaked stuff they should have been trickling out a year ago.

That's ridiculous. Do you base your purchases on leaked information? When has Atmel announced such devices?

I would think that you would be thrilled that Atmel hasn't announced vaporware.

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Quote:

That's ridiculous. Do you base your purchases on leaked information? When has Atmel announced such devices?

Easy now, EW.

1) It isn't >>that<< ridiculous, as the evidence (see below) indicates.
2) Yearning/expecting/hoping isn't "basing purchases".
3) Let's leave digging out "available now" vapour for a different discussion.

One of the links above http://media.corporate-ir.net/me... indicates a 2006 date. And tell me that OleBrom https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p... is not an Atmel person...

Quote:
The Xmega will be released in February 2007 and will have the same instruction sets as the other AVR's. The speed and pheripherals are better and includes i.e. 12-bit/2Msps ADC, 12-bit/1Msps DAC, built-in DMA controller..

along with some datasheets and other info. The first info was indeed found in 2006 and the OleBrom date of Feb. 2007 gives rise to my "year" comment.

In any case, we can't use them till we can hold them in our sweaty palms. See my posts above for the excitement that an enhanced AVR will bring. Again, it is disappointing that the Mega88-killer won't have an A/D, and thus won't be [a Mega88-killer]. The cost of these advanced features will be VERY interesting in making selection decisions.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Meanwhile the lowly Rabbit 4000 microprocessor has DMA and 60mhz clock. Dont know the mips/mhz yet. Their microcomputer module has 12 bit a/d onboard. Not quite the same as onchip, but close if the cost is comparable. Just for comparison.

Imagecraft compiler user

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To add to the speculations pool: What was the mystery thingie the fellow was playing with on the AVRTV video?
...
...
...

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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Hmmm. ADC into a DMA channel would make my current task about 256 times easier... Hurry up Atmel!

Quebracho seems to be the hardest wood.

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theusch wrote:

One of the links above http://media.corporate-ir.net/me... indicates a 2006 date. And tell me that OleBrom https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p... is not an Atmel person...
Quote:
The Xmega will be released in February 2007 and will have the same instruction sets as the other AVR's. The speed and pheripherals are better and includes i.e. 12-bit/2Msps ADC, 12-bit/1Msps DAC, built-in DMA controller..

A leaked document for a shareholder meeting, and some unknown person posting on AVR Freaks, does not equal a corporate news announcement.

One cannot say that a product is late, if it has never been *officially* announced. Until then, all bets are off.

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Quote:

A leaked document for a shareholder meeting,

Huh? How can shareholder meeting documents be "leaked"?
I suppose the datasheets are just April Fool's elaborate fabrications like the Signetics (?) Write-Only-Memory (WOM)?

I don't know what turned your crank, EW. I didn't say "late", is "should have" coupled with "trickling" inciteful rhetoric?

Still looking forward to the beasties.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:

I don't know what turned your crank, EW.

Sorry, Lee, it's historical. I know that you've complained about Atmel's vaporware in the past, what with announcing devices, and then they come out a year (or more) later, or not even at all.

theusch wrote:

Still looking forward to the beasties.

Yeah. I know what you mean. :D

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theusch wrote:
Still looking forward to the beasties.
Yes, the leaked capabilities look very useful.

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ok firstly leaked datasheets are not a product announcement, they are only good as a glimpse as to what a product might be, and it's questionable at best even then. Nor is a stockholder report a product announcement. Stockholder reports regularily contain "forward looking statments". So while the plan might have been to announce/release the xmega back then, it never happened for whatever reason (engineering delays, marketing shifts, etc).

Until Atmel flies a banner saying "New AVR XMega Introduced", or something to that effect, the product doesn't exist, and it's not late, nor is it vapourware.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

Last Edited: Mon. Jan 14, 2008 - 07:22 PM
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Quote:

I know that you've complained about Atmel's vaporware in the past, what with announcing devices, and then they come out a year (or more) later, or not even at all.

Yes, I certainly have, and will probably continue to do so. ;)

In this case, it is probably due to the lack of oxygen from holding my breath waiting for that nebulous announcement for about a year. lol

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
Quote:

I know that you've complained about Atmel's vaporware in the past, what with announcing devices, and then they come out a year (or more) later, or not even at all.

Yes, I certainly have, and will probably continue to do so. ;)

I'm really hoping you won't have to. :wink:

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