Victim of it's own success?

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There are lots of Arduino-like boards using non-AVR chips.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Any using XMOS?

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They have too much I/O and most of the pins would be wasted.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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I wish the Arduino guys would start enforcing their copyright for the name, restricting its use to only real Arduino clones, and not allowing things like this to go unchallenged. These things may use a few Arduino-like features, but mostly they are traps for the unwary put out by folks desperate to get on the Arduino bandwagon.

Pretty soon the Arduino name will become a nearly meaningless indicator for a supposedly novice friendly system with some Arduino library like functions. I wonder how many folks are falling for these deceptions?

Smiley

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Quote:

They have too much I/O and most of the pins would be wasted.

A high I/O pin count does not stop a board from being compatible with "the Arduino shield hardware spec". Example: http://www.digilentinc.com/Produ...

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"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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OK. The market for a 400 MIPS Arduino-compatible board is likely to be somewhat limited.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Leon,

You should create an XMOS-based Arduino board and go promote it on the Parallax Propeller forum. ;-)

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There is a Propeller-based Arduino-type board.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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They will be available from Microchip Direct:

http://www.microchipdirect.com/s...

The pricing is very attractive, the Uno32 costs about the same as the Arduino Uno.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Quote:

They will be available from Microchip Direct

Only if the website is :lol:

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It should be OK in a couple of weeks time, when they start shipping. :)

I've just noticed that they also have a prototyping shield kit for it:

http://www.microchipdirect.com/p...

I'll probably buy one out of curiosity, to add to my real Uno. The PIC32 is a nice chip, with some advantages over the ARM.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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But it isn't Arduino. Pigs in lipstick.

If someone can give me an example of any not-AVR 'Arduino' that runs off the Arduino IDE and uses the Arduino libraries unmodified - I'll shut up. But until then:

Smiley

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Quote:

If someone can give me an example of any not-AVR 'Arduino' that runs off the Arduino IDE and uses the Arduino libraries unmodified - I'll shut up.

http://arttools.blogspot.com/200...

(however I don't know enough about it to know whether that meets the "Arduino libraires unmodified"? Presumably not?). It cetrainly seems to allow the end user to run this on a Cortex M3:

volatile unsigned int count=-1;
int ledPin = 44;  // STM32_P103 Board - PC12
int dly;
int analogChn = 10;  // Analog channel 10 is PC0 = pin 32

void setup()
{
  pinMode(ledPin, OUTPUT);      // sets the digital pin as output }
  Serial.begin(115200);         // opens serial port, 31250bps (MIDI speed)
  Serial.write("\n\n   ***   Hello from Arduino 32   ***\n");
}

void loop()
{
  int k;
  count++;
  dly = analogRead(10)/2+20;
  digitalWrite(ledPin, HIGH);   // sets the LED off
  delay(dly);                  // waits for a second
  digitalWrite(ledPin, LOW);    // sets the LED on
  dly = analogRead(10)/2+20;
  delay(dly);                  // waits for a second  
  if (count%100 ==0)
  {
    Serial.print(count);    
    Serial.write("\n");
  }   
}

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I just downloaded the software, and it seems identical to the Arduino IDE, with the same libraries and examples. I tried compiling one of the examples and it seemed to build OK.

As far as users are concerned, the UNO32 should behave exactly the same as the Arduino UNO, except that code will run 4x faster, and all outputs are 3.3V. Digital inputs are 5V-compatible.

I'd say it was more like a duck than a pig applying lipstick: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

Leon Heller G1HSM

Last Edited: Wed. May 25, 2011 - 06:12 PM
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I don't see how that Uno board is trespassing on Arduino's property. In any event Smiley, mentioning a name isn't a copyright issue. It may be a trademark issue, if Arduino has bothered to register it properly, but even so, saying something is "compatible with Arduino®" is permissible. Now if Arduino had taken a design patent on the board layout, that might prevent clones and pin-compatible substitutes, but it would undermine the whole open-source idea, surely?

In all probability the people behind Arduino are happy just to see the technology spreading by any means.

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It's generated favourable reactions on the Arduino forum:

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.ph...

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.ph...

which are probably more significant than Smiley's.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Since this is an AVR forum, most of us here are emotionally attached to AVR and would be disappointed to see the Arduino idea move to a different platform, but open source is open source with everything that implies. It would still be nice of you not to rub it in.

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I didn't think I was "rubbing it in"! I was merely showing the fanboys here that there can be a better way to do things.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Quote:

there can be a better way to do things

"better" or "other"?

(I like to believe I'm an agnostic-not-fanboy ;-))

If it is "better" what makes it better?

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4x the processing speed for the same price!

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Ok Leon, you've made your point. Now knock it off before someone starts moderating your posts. This is still the AVR forum, even if it's the general electronics section.

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Perhaps because a PIC fanboy troll is doing it over and over again on purpose and actually seems to enjoy trolling for AVR fanboys.

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I use PIC, AVRs, and lots of other devices.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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But you troll on AVRfreaks! Besides if you think your 4x processing speed means best, you are forgetting the complexities of comparing different architectures. Which tells me you have not adequately answered Cliff's question. But your point is really just to cover your intentional trolling.

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Pointless argument. Forums are not democracies. Freedom of press belongs to those who owns one. If the owners of AVRfreaks, or those who has been given partial power by the owners, says "because we want to" then there you have it.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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peret wrote:
Since this is an AVR forum, most of us here are emotionally attached to AVR and would be disappointed to see the Arduino idea move to a different platform, but open source is open source with everything that implies.
There are lots of real Arduino clones out there that use AVRs and are fully compliant with the IDE and Libraries. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the pigs in lipstick pretending to be Arduinos when they aren't.

I would not in the least be disappointed to see the Arduino idea move to different platforms. Some only have the Arduino shield layout, some have libraries that look a lot like Arduino but aren't and won't code written for real Arduninos. I don't know of any non-AVR Arduino that will run on the Arduino IDE.

Sure, it can be done, but I haven't seen it done yet and in the meantime it is just confusing folks as to what an Arduino really is. Then again, as folks get burned the word will get out and I suspect that cause folks to shy away from any Arduino claims that can't be independently verified.

I'll look into some of the links shown here to see if my claims still hold true, who knows maybe somebody has actually done this, but till then its just lipstick on a PIC.

Smiley

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The point of Arduino is to make a microprocessor as easy to use as a car - you get in, you drive, doesn't matter what make and model it is. For better or worse, many people outside the engineering community use 'PIC' as a synonym for microcontroller in the same way they call any vacuum cleaner a 'hoover'. When it comes to processor families, the more hardware abstraction, the less the knowledge. Personally I think the Arduino community has taken abstraction to a level that will actually hinder its users more than help them, but that's their business. In the end, the Arduino that will beat the rest out will be the one with the most and best applications, and the best ones tend to be processor specific to take advantage of internal features that most Arduweenies are not only oblivious to but don't have the knowledge or resources to investigate.

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I, for one, welcome these developments. I have no emotional attachment to the original AVR-based Arduino, and am glad to see diversification to other processors with more performance and capabilities.

I'm looking very closely at the Cortex-M3 based board and think it's cool to have much higher performance while still being able to use existing shields.

The way I see this, it's just like the PC market. IBM did it first, but opened the door for other companies to jump in and offer features the original didn't. That's the way things work in this industry.

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
If the owners of AVRfreaks, or those who has been given partial power by the owners, says "because we want to" then there you have it.

There you have it indeed. Leon, by the powers vested in me to keep order in this forum, I'm telling you to quit trolling for Microchip, because I want you to.

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[moderator]

Leon has been told before that this is an AVR forum. If you wish to promote competitors products then you must do it elsewhere. While this forum is for generic electronics, this whole site is dedicated to the AVR. Please go to the comp.arch.embedded newsgroup to discuss other microprocessors, or go to individual manufacturers' websites.

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My head hurts... I need an Aspro

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Take it easy on Leon will you guys! He's just stating the facts, besides, I opened the can. I can't understand why you guys get so uptight about the competition. If I want bogan forum action, I'll just go to an auto or gaming forum!

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I'm not uptight about real competition.

Both automobiles and PCs have been mentioned and my concern is by analogy if someone was trying to sell a golf-cart and called it an automobile, or a Commodore and called it a PC then if folks fell for it, the term automobile and PC would lose their meanings. But I'm confident that these ploys won't work.

Smiley

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Further to my previous post, a friend came to visit - turns out he now works for Microchip! Dealin' wid da devil.

Sorry, my kernel has been tainted.

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i want to see avrs running at higher freq :(
small flash but fasterrrrr. why havnt they made atmegas running at 100Mhz++?? or even the atxmega??? even the UC3s are limited to 66MHz...

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Quote:

small flash but fasterrrrr. why havnt they made atmegas running at 100Mhz++??

Three, somewhat inter-twangled, guesses:

- There has been no substantial demand
- It costs too much to develop them, w r t ROI.
- Faster microcontrollers in the same price-and-performance segment exists (e.g. ARM Cortex stuff).

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I'm just guessing here, but I'd say the AVRs are designed using the chip designer's version of assembler, so doing any change involves a lot of work. I'd also suggest the architecture is tied closely to the flash and flash has a limited speed - therefore the overall speed is limited. If they decided to use ram instead of flash and load up the code from external flash, then it would probably work 10 times as fast, but people won't want to add another chip to their design. Look at something like the XMOS chip - it's damn fast but has only ram on chip. FPGA's as another example - the ones that have flash copy to ram but most of them load from external storage. So, flash is slow, ram is fast as dictated by the current state of art.

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The flash memory is the problem with getting high speed. NXP gets round it with their ARM chips by using a 128 bit wide interface to the on-chip flash. XMOS have said that they could put flash on the chip, and load the program into RAM from it, as they do from external flash, but the processes they use (90 nm and 40 nm) don't support on-chip flash and they'd have to use an older, slower process.

Power consumption is another issue, with faster chips.

Leon Heller G1HSM