Very tempting

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#1
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I have been vacillating over a scope purchase, and function generator etc these past couple of months.  I don't need high-rel accuracy per se, but I also do not have the $$ to go high end either.

 

Then I received this in my inbox:

 

https://www.jameco.com/z/SIG-BUN...

 

After I pay my vendors, I may consider ordering the kit and testing them against my Tek scope and my Fluke Meter to see their accuracy.  This could be a worthwhile investment.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Saelig also has sales in their periodic e-mail.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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class, all we need is the money.

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Couldn't locate the word 'probe' or 'probes' in the scope's data (edit : in scope's datasheet, PP215, 200MHz, 16pF)

200MHz bandwidth covers XMEGA by a typical rule (fifth harmonic); XMEGA EBI is 2*CPU frequency though that clock is internal other than can be on one pin (iow the CLOCKOUT or CLKOUT pin signal is CLKPER, CLKPER2, or CLKPER4) (IIRC a post stated there's a lot of roll-off for CLKPER2 and CLKPER4)

More major scope manufacturers are "having" to compete at that bandwidth range.

Jack Ganssle reviewed a Siglent scope.

Can verify a signal's quality with the scope then move to your preferred logic analyzer for the remainder; some logic analyzers have enough bandwidth, sample rate, and waveform rate for analog.

 

Probing High-Speed Digital Designs (approx mid-page for the system's bandwidth equation)

ATxmega128A1U - 8-bit AVR Microcontrollers

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Tue. Jan 21, 2020 - 05:26 PM
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That looks pretty sweet....tempting!!  Sigilent seems to be one of the higher rated import brands.

 

For a lot more $$ they also have a 5 piece bundle, with spectrum analyzer

https://www.jameco.com/z/SIG-BUNDLE-3-Siglent-Technologies-Siglent-5-Piece-Engineering-Lab-Test-Equipment-Bundle_2295087.html

 

Unfortunately, I just bought another spec analyzer, so need to save up my pennies.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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I don't really need another 'scope, the ones I have work very well, but I can get itchy about buying a new one now and then.

 

No thanks to you, avrcandies, for the link to that bundle.  Hmm...  If I smashed the piggy bank I could... no, no no.  You don't need it.  cheeky  S.

 

Arguably, baby needs new shoes - the car's front brake pads have begun to sing to me, and that means they're getting skinny - as are the rotors.  O dear... 

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jgmdesign wrote:
I may consider ordering the kit and testing them
Surely Jim, you would not buy just so you could do a comparison test! Sounds extremely extravagant to me.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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valusoft wrote:

jgmdesign wrote:
I may consider ordering the kit and testing them
Surely Jim, you would not buy just so you could do a comparison test! Sounds extremely extravagant to me.

 

I guess you missed the rest of the sentence Ross....

jgmdesign wrote:
against my Tek scope and my Fluke Meter to see their accuracy.  This could be a worthwhile investment.

 

And my opening:

jgmdesign wrote:
I have been vacillating over a scope purchase, and function generator etc these past couple of months. 

 

I have been looking at Ebay for HP/agilent and other 'name brand' gear used and have them calibrated, but the 4 piece kit...provided it's reasonably close to my TEk scope and FLUKE handheld and I can check the generator accuracy with my TEK, then why not go for that?

 

Vendors get paid first.

 

JIm

 

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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jgmdesign wrote:

Vendors get paid first.

 

Sometimes I wish my clients had your ethos.  S.

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Alert---I noticed the 'scope is a 2 chan. For myself, I'd hesitate --all of my (too many) scopes are 4 chan.

I wonder if they'd allow a 4 chan bundle upgrade? I wonder how much savings the bundle actually is , when you apply all available discounts, sales, etc.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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The 'bundle' says it's a 4-channel, but it looks like they mux them into two ADCs.  's got four BNC probe connectors...  indecision  S.

 

Edited to add:

And they admit it.  The sampling frequency drops in half if you use both inputs of the same ADC.  S.

Last Edited: Wed. Jan 22, 2020 - 12:38 AM
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I'm referring to the lower price bundle, the higher priice is 4 chan

 

 

The sampling frequency drops in half if you use both inputs of the same ADC.  S.

That's pretty common, though perhaps less so than it used to be (when ADC's were $$$$)

I'm gonna look for the 2 GHz scope that samples at 100 Msamples/sec (more spec games)

If equiv sampling is done very carefully/precisely it can make things better, but in cheaper scopes it is often done poorly & can make things worse.

 

oh boy GHz!

 

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Wed. Jan 22, 2020 - 01:38 AM
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Jim,

 

If you can I would first see if you can get either the package or the scope for a test period.

I think you may get bit by the fact that it is only 2 channel. Not sure on how much you need the other things too.

Did you even consider "Rigol" They are, here at least, showing up everywhere with a lot of nice looking products.

Also Keysight ( former HP/agilent) now a days seem to have a ' refurbished'  pool with very interesting prices. 

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meslomp wrote:

I think you may get bit by the fact that it is only 2 channel.

 

^^^^That. Since I've had my 4 channel Rigol I don't think I could ever conceive of going back to a 2-channel device.

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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Brian Fairchild wrote:
Since I've had my 4 channel Rigol I don't think I could ever conceive of going back to a 2-channel device.

Likewise!

 

4 channels can do a whole SPI link

 

I remember faffing about with that on a 2-channel scope: first check that CS looks OK on a regular channel, then use it for external trigger - then that only leaves 3 signals to fit onto the 2 channels ...

 

Scroungre wrote:
4-channel, but it looks like they mux them into two ADCs.

could be acceptable ...

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awneil wrote:

Likewise!

 

4 channels can do a whole SPI link

With something like SPI don't you just use a $10 logic analyser and sigrok?

 

The 2/4 channel thing is surely when you need to see the "analog shape" of more than 2 things at a time? (things like ringing/overshoot/skew etc)

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awneil wrote:

Brian Fairchild wrote:
Since I've had my 4 channel Rigol I don't think I could ever conceive of going back to a 2-channel device.

Likewise!

 

4 channels can do a whole SPI link

 

As if to reinforce the point I've just had to go to 5 channels to sort out a particularly irksome problem!

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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As if to reinforce the point I've just had to go to 5 channels to sort out a particularly irksome problem!

In a pinch, you can use a few resistors to make a 2 bit dac to give 4 logic levels on one channel...a pain, but it "works" 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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avrcandies wrote:

As if to reinforce the point I've just had to go to 5 channels to sort out a particularly irksome problem!

In a pinch, you can use a few resistors to make a 2 bit dac to give 4 logic levels on one channel...a pain, but it "works" 

 

Or in my case two scopes and six probes with them both triggered off the same source.

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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Now, if anyone knows a linux solution to allow use of more than one of those ten buck logic analyser things at the same time... I find I need around fifty channels :)

 

Neil

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I find I need around fifty channels :)

A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used to use one of these quite a lot:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223788585669

 

 

That ebay listing reminds me it had 43 channels.

 

In those days the chips we were working with (Z80, 8086) which were 40 pin chips so you could probe the entire address and data busses. What's more the analyser was a pretty advanced beast - had a floppy disk drive and you could load a 8086 disassembler etc so you could actually follow the flow of CPU operation and see the exact sequence of what had executed. It kind of revolutionized dev work for us at the time as we built our first IBM PC clone for sale.

 

Last Edited: Fri. Jan 24, 2020 - 09:23 AM
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We used the 1611A quite a bit (we had 3 or 4 of them)

 

This is an interesting trip back

http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_12.htm

 

...some years later an abandoned stint with signature analyzers (touted as the next revolution for servicing--find that bad AND gate). 

 

http://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_222.pdf

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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clawson wrote:
A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used to use one of these quite a lot:

OMG I have not seen one of those since the early 80's when I used one daily while designing a chip for the an OCR reader.

Thanks for the memories, er logic analyzer!

 

Jim

 

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I gave away my 72 channel/100MHz HP logic analyser a couple years ago.  Color screen, Mouse. hard drive and floppy drive.  Thing was a beast.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user