Is there a need for another programmer?

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Quote:
About as well as Js, Jr Jr is communicating right now
Yep digital mode.
Happy=
Unhappy=ONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONEONE (read it loud)

So I plugged in the other FOB and guess what? It comes up as port 21 :roll:
It seesm that EVERY FTDI chip will get his own port number :( and of course I will soon get into port 256 :(

I have 4 boards that I have designed with the FTDI chips and they ALL have their unique serial port number it seems. 16-19

So what happens when one goes into production and wants to test 1000 boards???

Surely there must be a way of limiting the port numbers....more confused than ever....

Quote:
If you need or want an early copy let me know?
I may need to, thanks, untill I sort out this mess.
So if you have tested 20 FOBs do you have 20 serial ports chewed up? What happens when you plug the 21st? Does it get a new port numer assigned? May want to try this out please.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:
It seesm that EVERY FTDI chip will get his own port number :( and of course I will soon get into port 256 :(

So what happens when one goes into production and wants to test 1000 boards???

Surely there must be a way of limiting the port numbers....more confused than ever...

Dear confused,

If a production product involves the incorporation of an FTDI USB-->RS-232 converter, Windows will select a unique communications port. It seems Windows remembers the signature of a particular FTDI USB device. When a second, third, fourth, etc. FTDI USB controller is connected to Windows, each device will assume the communications port that Windows originally assigned to that device.

So for a production situation, be prepared to keep the "System/Hardware" configuration window active. As each new FTDI USB production device is connected, simply re-assign the new FTDI USB device a free communications port.

With the systems at the house, I have disabled COM2: & COM3:. In fact, I've deleted the MODEM driver, as well as disabled the physical COMM port to it.

I use COM3: for any device that is transitional or experimental. Other more permanent FTDI devices are usually assigned a communications port above this, so as not to conflict with each other or anything else.

Manually changing the communications port isn't really a big deal anyway, as the BAUD rate usually needs to be changed, as well.

In the course of any given project, I have 3 ATAVRISP-MKII programmers, 3 FTDI USB-->RS-232 adapters, an FTDI based USB oscilloscope, a dragon (doesn't count - not FTDI), two (new additions) of smileymicros BBUSB modules, all trade places (in the course of a given project) on virtual communications ports COM2 to COM4 via a USB2.0 seven port hub. Proper assignment is a cinch, really.

And another note. At work, we are getting more and more USB based devices to program & test assemblies. I finally had to put a USB hub, not only for the added USB ports, but even more so, for the protection of the test PC.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

Last Edited: Wed. Mar 19, 2008 - 12:12 AM
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So if you have tested 20 FOBs do you have 20 serial ports chewed up? What happens when you plug the 21st? Does it get a new port numer assigned? May want to try this out please.

Well, I cheated a little when I programmed them. I set the FTDI chips all to the same serial number did my programming and testing and then reset them back to auto generate a new number. I still had to clear out the "in use" ports that would show on initial plug in.

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:roll: ..still confused...

So I unistalled the Bluetooth modules, now the programmers come up as com 5 and 6. (after unistalling them as 20 and 21)

AVROSP does not seem to detect them in any mode.

However Studio will detect them on the correct port numbers in Auto mode. The dropdown menu still shows only 1-4 :(

The programming seems to do something but verification fails with data reported as 0x00.

Still trying...

So are we saying that we need to assign the SAME serial numbers to the FTDI chips during the initial test/setup so that all similar devices appear on the same port number?

Ideally one would want a physical connector to be assigned a port number like a real RS232 but that cannot happen I suppose.

So, every time a new FTDI chip is plugged in one needs to go to the control panel> system> device manager and find out the port number for it? I'll need to get my old brain around this....

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:
:roll: ..still confused...

So I unistalled the Bluetooth modules, now the programmers come up as com 5 and 6. (after unistalling them as 20 and 21)

AVROSP does not seem to detect them in any mode.

However Studio will detect them on the correct port numbers in Auto mode. The dropdown menu still shows only 1-4 :(

The programming seems to do something but verification fails with data reported as 0x00.

Still trying...

So are we saying that we need to assign the SAME serial numbers to the FTDI chips during the initial test/setup so that all similar devices appear on the same port number?

Ideally one would want a physical connector to be assigned a port number like a real RS232 but that cannot happen I suppose.

So, every time a new FTDI chip is plugged in one needs to go to the control panel> system> device manager and find out the port number for it? I'll need to get my old brain around this....

Right now, I've assigned my AVRFOB to COM2:

And, I also see an issue with verify.

In addition, while it seems to actually program the target device directly, it won't verify.

When switched to "Memory " mode, it appears to write the device, but a verify fails.

When I disconnect the USB cable and try to program in "Stand-alone " mode, the Red LED flashes a couple of times - nowhere near the length of time it takes to program the same device in "Standard Programing " mode.

When setting the ISP programming frequency, it keeps defaulting to the second to the fastest - like the issue with the Dragon ISP programming frequency.

When I try to program the fuses in "Standard " mode, reading them back seems to be correct. But in "Stand-alone " mode, they come back looking like this was a virgin controller, I.e. JTAG and other bits are at default. Same for the security bits.

I guess a better understanding of what is actually happening during each process would help.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Hmmm...When programming the on board flash are you making sure the checkbox for erase device before programming is UNCHECKED ?

Also, I forgot to mention a really important piece of information! The ISP speeds selected will actually be double that. This may be the cause of the verify errors. Sorry about that...
The update to AVROSP will give you the option of setting it to single speed or double speed.

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OK,

My AVRFob has just arrived. Thanks John, Chuck, Carl and Mike. (Sounds like a cast of 1000s doesn't it. Did I forget to thank my kinder teacher?).

I think that I will sit a while and watch the ensuing drama play out before I venture into testing anything. Looks messy/uncertain so far from this vantage point.

But Mike, the unit looks good (already opened and inspected it).

Cheers,

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Thanks John, Chuck, Carl and Mike.
...been nominated for the academy awards are we?? :)

I guess it will all come good. By the way I suppose we have the latest firmware already installed?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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CirMicro wrote:
Hmmm...When programming the on board flash are you making sure the checkbox for erase device before programming is UNCHECKED ?

Oops! I always keep it checked. I'll give that a try...

CirMicro wrote:
Also, I forgot to mention a really important piece of information! The ISP speeds selected will actually be double that. This may be the cause of the verify errors. Sorry about that...
The update to AVROSP will give you the option of setting it to single speed or double speed.

As I'm really coming into this discussion a bit late, Where are the updates located?

And, how is the AVRFOP\B updated - In AVRStudio? I noticed in the instructions that there was some mention of jumper selections. Set the jumper to "Firmware Update " and then dump the update into the thing using AVRStudio?

One other thing I do notice, as well. When I instruct the AVRFOB to program, imediately followed be a verify, the verify seems to work correctly. But if I simply do a veriy - without programming - the verify fails - in both modes.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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CirMicro wrote:
Hmmm...When programming the on board flash are you making sure the checkbox for erase device before programming is UNCHECKED ?

Carl wrote:

Quote:

Always!

Are you sure you read that right Carl?

You DO NOT want "erase before programming checked"

The reason is that the flash takes longer than Avr Studio allows for to erase, So Avr Studio has already started programming while the flash is in the middle of an erase. The fact that Avr Studio verifies correctly shows there is bug in Avr Studio :)

This is really the only thing different that needs to be done as far as programming the on board flash.

The units you guys have should be the latest release. The firmware is updated though by placing the jumper across pins 2 & 3 and using OSPII to program it.

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Quote:
I think that I will sit a while and watch the ensuing drama play out before I venture into testing anything. Looks messy/uncertain so far from this vantage point.

Nah, you know how these newbies are :) (Ducking for cover)

Quote:
But Mike, the unit looks good (already opened and inspected it).

Thanks!

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Hi Mike,

It seem that UNCHECKING "Erase Device Before Programming " has solved a lot of problems. I can now verify in "Stand-alone " mode. And, the Fuse bits are holding their own, as well.

Yes Mile, the AVRFOB does look nice. I'm thinking about making a label for mine. When I get it done, I show pictures of it. If you guys like it, I'll send a dozen, or so, to zbaird and he can distribute them around the globe.

In future units, I'd suggest that you put a polarized (read Shrouded & Keyed) type headers in place of the open pin headers. I do realize, though, that the 6 pin shrouded & keyed headers are a bear to find.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Glad to hear things are working smoother now :)

Quote:
In future units, I'd suggest that you put a polarized (read Shrouded & Keyed) type headers in place of the open pin headers. I do realize, though, that the 6 pin shrouded & keyed headers are a bear to find.

Yes, I agree. It's even harder finding them in that length. I would probably have to just make a riser for it.

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Quote:
I do realize, though, that the 6 pin shrouded & keyed headers are a bear to find.
Nah, you can get them from the local chemist. :)

I have used them for years for things other than ISP. Last time I got 50 from Mouser part number 617-09185066324. I have also got them from Farnell and Avnet or Arrow??

I guess a label will avoid confusion, I just looked at the pcb artwork.

You can just provide a PDF and we can print our own sticky back labels. I use Avery laser Heavy Duty stickers. Don't come off in a hurry.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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CirMicro wrote:
Glad to hear things are working smoother now :)

Quote:
In future units, I'd suggest that you put a polarized (read Shrouded & Keyed) type headers in place of the open pin headers. I do realize, though, that the 6 pin shrouded & keyed headers are a bear to find.

Yes, I agree. It's even harder finding them in that length. I would probably have to just make a riser for it.

Well, actually... Even just a label marking pin 1 on each header would ease the issue of determining which way to plug the cable into the AVRFOB. That, and labeling the function of the switch positions.

I'll look at the label thing this weekend, and see what I can come up with - their pretty easy to make.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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js wrote:
I guess a label will avoid confusion, I just looked at the pcb artwork.

You can just provide a PDF and we can print our own sticky back labels. I use Avery laser Heavy Duty stickers. Don't come off in a hurry.

I also use Avery labels. I have some Avery software to do the graphics with. It's a bit archaic, but the software has all of the Avery label patterns. Once I get a nice label, I cover it with a clear lamination to protect the label.

But I will make the PDFs available. I'll keep you posted...

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:

Well, actually... Even just a label marking pin 1 on each header would ease the issue of determining which way to plug the cable into the AVRFOB. That, and labeling the function of the switch positions.

I did mark it in the reference guide...does that count? :)

I was looking at some stuff that is basically a spin off of the peel n press that is suppose to work well. I'll have to see if I can find the link to it.

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CirMicro wrote:
I did mark it in the reference guide...does that count?

Well, if their available.

When I printed the instructions, only page 1 printed, because my printer ran out of paper and I didn't notice. It was several days before I used the printer again. When I finally put paper in the printer, out pops the pictorial of the programmer.

And, this device is suppose to be portable. That implies that all of the information needed to successfully use it in the field should be easily accessible. What better way to do that, then with good labeling?

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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And, this device is suppose to be portable. That implies that all of the information needed to successfully use it in the field should be easily accessible. What better way to do that, then with good labeling?

I fully agree that labeling would be nice. At the same time though I don't think it would be too difficult to learn a button and a switch. :mrgreen:

Hey John,
Did you make any progress?

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CirMicro wrote:
Quote:
And, this device is suppose to be portable. That implies that all of the information needed to successfully use it in the field should be easily accessible. What better way to do that, then with good labeling?

I fully agree that labeling would be nice. At the same time though I don't think it would be too difficult to learn a button and a switch. :mrgreen:

Hey John,
Did you make any progress?

Well, you're young enough that you probably haven't experienced any of the symptoms of CRS disease yet... :wink:

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Here's a link, what do you think about this stuff?

http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/index.html

Quote:

Well, you're young enough that you probably haven't experienced any of the symptoms of CRS disease yet...

What were we talking about again? :wink:

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CirMicro wrote:
Here's a link, what do you think about this stuff?

http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/index.html

Quote:

Well, you're young enough that you probably haven't experienced any of the symptoms of CRS disease yet...

What were we talking about again? :wink:

I was correct in my assumption.

As you get up in years, you reach a point where you simply "Can't Remember Shit !" :cry: (CRS )

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Ok some progress now :) I also had some bugs in the firmware I was working on, so I had to work on that first...old age related...included my definition file AFTER the point where I wanted it, so half of the code was being assembled for the M8535 and the other half for the M16. Basically I use M16 for debug purposes with JTAG and the production units use the M8535.

I managed to get the programmer to work at 57 something KHz, this is with a chip running at 4MHz now but I had changed the fuses with the AVRISP. I'll keep on using the FOB for the next few days. Unfortunately I won't get the small production test run of 200 for several weeks. That will be the real test. By then some bits and pieces may get ironed out a bit better.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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So who is going to write the definitive "AVRFob for Dummies" :lol:

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Someone without FOBias of writing?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Someone with a warped sense of humor, as seems to be common on island continents.

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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Here's the new cover for the manual:

Attachment(s): 

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No womder he gets a "connection failed"...look at how much hair he has. Real clever people don't have any....

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:
No womder he gets a "connection failed"...look at how much hair he has. Real clever people don't have any....[/quote]

Well, little to none.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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The SQL

Attachment(s): 

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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Quote:
Real clever people don't have any....

Funny, I must be getting rapidly cleverer day by day and yet it doesn't feel like it :(

(oh and how do you explain Einstein? ;))

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So why is everyone being so flippant with my very serious suggestion?????? :?

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Write on, Ross...

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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Quote:
how do you explain Einstein?
Never worked with C or a PIC (which also contains a C...)??? :lol:

edit By the way Mike, on page 9 of this thread you posted a pdf with the words

Quote:
A small update to the reference manual.
but I don't think I have seen the main "reference manual". This may keep a grumpy old man happy for a while... :)

Also I have cleaned up my com ports as far as using FTDI chips. Now port 5-16 are reserved for devices with serial numbers AMPERT05-AMPERT16...how's that for clever thinking?

So all I need to do is to change the chip's serial number with M-Prog to place it at a particular com number.

By the way Studio seems to be able to pick up only up to com8 max in Auto mode. I still have a dropdown menu of com1-4 only, possibly because is an upgrade of older version. Any idea of how to change the dropdown menu so it shows all ports?? (without unistall and reinstall if possible)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:

edit By the way Mike, on page 9 of this thread you posted a pdf with the words
Quote:
A small update to the reference manual.
but I don't think I have seen the main "reference manual". This may keep a grumpy old man happy for a while... Smile

Well, that is the main manual at this point :roll:

I'll work on writing up something a little more substantial this weekend. Feel free to voice any suggestions that might make things easier to understand.

What version of Avr Studio are you actually running John? I've never had to do anything special to get the extra COM ports in the drop down menu?

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Quote:
that is the main manual at this point
oh I see, you work on the updates first, then the main manual. The 1st issue of the manual will be 100% correct then :lol:
Quote:
What version of Avr Studio are you actually running John?
4.13 sp2 but it's upgrade upon upgrade, so something may be crossed. It works ok in auto up to com8 with Studio.

AVROSP does not want to have anything to do with it on any port it seems or even the real AVRISP on a real com port. Works ok with the old AVR910 programmer though.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Have everyone except me recieved now?

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No, mine is still somewhere underway. Where are you located ?

Markus

Markus

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Quote:
AVROSP does not want to have anything to do with it on any port it seems or even the real AVRISP on a real com port. Works ok with the old AVR910 programmer though.

I think there is some confusion here. The available copy of AVROSP II does not yet have support for the STK500V2 protocol. It does of course accept my own bootloader protocol OSPII which is the protocol used for doing AVRFOB firmware updates.

I'm adding Stk500V2 support to avoid having yet another protocol, but it will detect an AVRFOB and enable extended functionality. One feature being that you will be able to save/load any file as though it were a virtual drive allowing at the moment use of ~500K as general storage. I opted this route for more flexibility. So you can save project or any other information in any format you like (txt, zip, pdf, ...) instead of being limited to a set data structure.

I expect to have something ready for the masses by the end of next week.

As to your COM port issues it's just a thought, but do any of your com ports have names other than the conventional COM1, COM2, etc ...?
I ask because there are many ways to enumerate available ports and the most used methods usually have trouble if the ports are not the standard names.

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Quote:
Have everyone except me recieved now?

You and Markus should be receiving yours soon should the postal gods be at peace this week :|:

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Quote:
The available copy of AVROSP II does not yet have support for the STK500V2 protocol.
That clears it up nicely. :)
Quote:
but do any of your com ports have names other than the conventional COM1, COM2, etc ...?
Only what Bill Gates names them. I do remember vaguely a thread that mentioned a visible com port issue and the registry...but I would have to do search..

As I said Studio picks up the FOB with USB com ports up to com 8. If I program the FOB with serial numbers corresponding to a higher port number (as above) it does not seem to work.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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markus_b wrote:
No, mine is still somewhere underway. Where are you located ?

Markus


Denmark :)

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still nothing :|

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Redeeman wrote:
still nothing :|

Same here :-(

Markus

Markus

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it seems increasingly unlikely that they will ever show up...

I have recieved multiple packages from the states since all this began.

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any news?

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Today I've got a surprise in my inbox: A parcel with a KEYFOB programmer !

That date on the customs sticker says it was sent on the 24th. So it took 13 days to travel, quite reasonable for the low shipping cost.

Now that it finally arrived, is there some documentation (pin, jumper and switch settings, etc) ?

Markus

Markus

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I'm back at trying to use the FOB..unsuccessfully :(

The only doc I have is AVRFOB Quick Reference Guide Version 1.0. Anything newer?

Also I have a firmware upgrade of 16 Feb. 08, anything newer? (can't remeber if I upgraded the programmer)

I'm trying to program lots of M164p, I think I'm loading up the program, fuses and lockbits correctly but it does not work on the modules. The second Green led seems to flicker as if it is programming. I have seen small red flashes.

Should we start another thread on this or continue with this one?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Hey John,
Did you ever get this going?
I 'rediscovered' my Fob recently and thought I should really get it going.
Cheers,
Ivan

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NO, it's not really that good, give it back to me, I'll dispose of it at no charge to you. :wink:

Actually I use it all the time and would not mind getting another one or 2 for the same price. I almost did something bad to it yesterday. One of the boards I was testing had a chip which was used for DW and it was still enabled. The 2 were fighting over the SPI bus and could see the curent going high on the bench PS current-o-meter, got a bit worried but it survived.

I think I installed an updated firmware a while back, it may be even shown somewhere in this thread.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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