STK500X

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I have just spotted mention of the "STK500X", alledgedly a "mk II" follow-up to the wonderful STK500.

Does anyone have any more detailed information on this, or is Atmel "keeping the lid on"?

I'd suspect that it will have USB comms with the "host", but what else?

If the roumor of such a thingie is true, and anyone have any more info on this - please post here!

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"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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It was mentioned during the AVR Webinar.

No details I am aware of, but it will probably be just an upgraded one of the original, ie, USB.

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Maybe I should hold off buying a STK500 then....

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Buy a Dragon and get a free STK500 ... Look at the Webinar thread in the Off-Topic forum for details.

Dean 94TT
"Life is just one damn thing after another" Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

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like the other post said it was only briefly mentioned in the Webinar and that was only in ref to USB comms.....after seeing what $50 buys with a Dragon I guess if Atmel China makes the new STK500X it could even possibly embed Dragon functionality without increasing the current $80 cost of the STK500...but everything will probably remain quite simlar so all the other add-on boards are compatible...
it would be nice if the spacing on the sockets on the STK500X design were changed so ZIF sockets could be installed properly but I have doubts if that will happen

the free Webinar STK500 giveaway with a Dragon purchase may be a way to clear out stock before its release and if the current design is not ROHS compliant a way to keep from having to send them to some slag heap in wherever....

at the very least the current freebie STK500 with a Dragon purchase provides the cables you will need to use the Dragon!!! :lol:

maybe Atmel Dev Tools Mgr will bless this thread with a STK500X freebie like the Dragon thread did??? :roll:
My bet is on late Jan or early Feb 2007 preview.....

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I'd speculate that it would be similar to BlueGoo's thoughts - a MKII STK500 with (limited) JTAG/dW support. Since the Dragon incorporates all the STK500's features, the extra $30 would go towards the external power circuitry, sockets, LEDs, buttons and cables.

If nothing else, the entire hardware front-end would be replaced. Out would be the MEGA8535 and TINY2313, and in would be - if the Dragon is anything to go by - a MEGA2561 for all the controlling.

I doubt anyone could give any concrete information at this time.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Back in May I was whining about the the high cost of the jtag mkII and theorized about a new rev stk500 with jtag and debugwire.

Then the dragon came along and gave me the cheap debugwire I wanted.

I've got to admit that I've gotten a ton of use out of my stk-500 over the last couple of years. It's a wonderful tool, and quite flexible.

I know that old fashioned serial rs-232 ports seem to be going the way of the dodo, but I hope a redesigned stk500x adds some debugging features, and not just a usb bridge chip and rohs compliance. All this while keeping the price low enough for a hobbyist.

We'll just have to wait and see.

-carl

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who knows if maybe the Freaks share what exaclty they would like to see in the STK500X (without increasing its cost) then maybe the ATmel Dev Tool Mgr will visit this thread to either see how close the new design is to what the Freaks (users) want or think would be usefull....of course it would also be cool to have user input prior to a new design being produced?... :shock:

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I just ordered my Dragon and free STK500. The online order form said that the Dragon is back ordered (but late). At the webinar they said that they had plenty in CA though.

Regards,
Steve A.

The Board helps those that help themselves.

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STK500X = STK500 & prototyping area

...please :D

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I'd be interested in knowing what a 500X is... despite I bought my STK500 2 months ago :)

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Be very interesting what is the specs on SKT500X will be.
Will there be any limitation similar to the Dragon.

Or, it maybe nothing has change.

Ken

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If it's true to its heritage, the STK500X would resemble the AVRISP mkII in the same way that the STK500 resembles an original AVRISP.

But that seems less likely due to the fact that they didn't just go with the "mkII" nomenclature for the STK500 replacement. The "X" instead of "mkII" seems to imply that we can hope for some feature extensions, not just the same old thing with USB stuck on.

Oh well. We'll see...

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I'd better get move on with my projects. I finally got my hands on a Dragon and it is a nice addition to the STK500 and Butterfly, especially with the debug facilities. Now I just got to find some more time to spend with all these toys.

If the new STK500X is a plain old STK500 with built-in debug facilities and USB I will be more than pleased. It would reduce the mess on the table, or at least I would like to think so 8)

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I'm going to add a nonsense comment, since doing so in the Dragon thread got me a free Dragon.

[comment]nonsense[/comment]

Smiley

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Even just USB would be nice. My new laptop has no serial port!

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When you say built-in debug, do you mean a dragon?

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Quote:
I'm going to add a nonsense comment, since doing so in the Dragon thread got me a free Dragon.

[comment]nonsense[/comment]

Smiley


Maybe I'll add a nice remark about Joe Pardue's book and see if manna falls from heaven...

[nice remark]Great![/nice remark]

Chuck

ps: joke! I have the book, don't need one! it's [nice remark]Great![/nice remark]

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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I think having DUAL USB would be great, that way you could just program then receive serial from the kit without messing with any cables. I believe FTDI has a chip which can provide Dual USB<->UART over a single USB cable.

The current STK500 recommends to have 700mA of juice, I wonder how this will go with the USB powered one as they would need 2 USB connections to get that much, USB bus will only supple 500mA IIRC.

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While I really don't know too much about the internal workings of USB, I really like using the FTDI chips with my projects because I then have no RS232 limitation with my PC. That is, my notebooks don't have RS232.

I doubt that Atmel would use FTDI as, they have their own line of USB devices and would probably want to give them more exposure on the market place.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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But what about the protocol used by this new part!.. is it stk500 compatible? (protocol wise) or are they designing a new plugin also?

---
ARod

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it will be nice if they design it with the new USB-AVR parts, but I think they are going to follow the same design as the mkII series.(philips parts)

---
ARod

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Maybe Dag will check in and share with us the feature set of the new STK500 "X" :wink:

Dag Braend is the Tools Director for the AVR Tools
dag@atmel

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alejmrm wrote:
But what about the protocol used by this new part!.. is it stk500 compatible? (protocol wise) or are they designing a new plugin also?

If they follow their recent trend, then I'd expect that the application-level protocol (the layout and content of the actual datagrams interpreted by the programmer) will be identical, but the low-level transport used to convey the information reliably will be different.

For example, consider the differences between the AVRISP and the AVRISP mkII protocols. They each use very similar sets of packets. The difference is that the serial version encapsulates its application packets within a secondary protocol which is intended to ensure reliable communications. This secondary protocol includes magic numbers to indicate the beginning of each message transmission, sequence numbers, and an XOR checksum of all bytes sent in each message. The USB version, on the other hand, simply sends the packets as streams of bytes, and trusts the built-in CRC checks of the underlying USB transport to ensure error-free communication.

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I suppose they'd be using the same protocol for the new STK 500X as the butterfly programming/debugging unit, thats the same sheme they used for STK500 and AVRisp, as they both takt stk500 v1 og v2 protocol.

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safari wrote:
I suppose they'd be using the same protocol for the new STK 500X as the butterfly programming/debugging unit, thats the same sheme they used for STK500 and AVRisp, as they both takt stk500 v1 og v2 protocol.

The Butterfly bootloder does not use the same V2 protocol as the AVRISP/STK500/etc - it's a simple serial stream with single byte commands. By comparison, the STK500 uses a V2 protocol layer to transport the data from/to the computer, and a different scheme for decoding and encoding the actual commands.

ButtLoad does in fact use the V2 protocol, but it's not the native bootloader protocol for the Butterfly.

My best guess is the same V2 protocol revision as the Dragon or AVRISP MKII.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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I don't want to especulate with they're features, but I agree with many of the opinions about the RoHS/EOL/Stock emptying issue.

In my opinion, the USB<->2x 232 conversion, added to AVRISP MkII compatibility, is enough reason to actulize a pretty good dev board. If we add some features, like (limited?) debug aids, while mantaining compatibility with STK501/2/3/4/25/... then it would be a really nice platform. Even if the price rises a little, since in the lower range there is the Dragon.

Guillem.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Dooh, i was thinking Dragon not butterfly, sometimes I wonder why I dont read my posts before posting them.

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alejmrm wrote:
it will be nice if they design it with the new USB-AVR parts, but I think they are going to follow the same design as the mkII series.(philips parts)

That would be a bit of a shame. I agree with Carl, it would be a good move if they used their own USB devices. The term for this (using your own products to prove their worth) used to be 'eat your own dog food', but I heard a much nicer version of this expression today: 'eat your own caviar' - because your customers deserve caviar, not dog food.

Michael

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I wonder if there will be a special buying deal on the new "caviar" just to get the marketplace accustomed to the new products? Just like the post-Christmas sales....and of course, a few "oh I like the new STK 500X" statements cannot hurt their marketing efforts.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Yes indeed.
Im sure lots of us, including myself would give our honest opinions about the stk500x... if it was free :twisted:

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Another one for the STK500X wishlist (though I guess the design has been pinned down quite some time ago):
A second adjustable (even programmable?) power supply for powering gadgets connected to the STK that need a different voltage than the controller.

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Just a post in case there is a STK500X give away. don't want to miss it

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Hmmmm. Seems that many of us write something 'just in case' there would be some STK500X for free for us. Xmas time?

Guillem.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Quote:

Seems that many of us write something 'just in case' there would be some STK500X for free for us.

Well, isn't THAT the silliest reason to make a post to a thread that has no constructive value.

[ ;) Kidding, of course--I don't think I have posted to this thread yet.]

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:
Xmas time?

STK500Xmas time

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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Man, I wish I hadn't just bought an STK500 a few months back... I would've liked to have gotten a Dragon too. Oh well.

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I don't see why ATMEL would give away freebies to people who simply said "im posting to get a free one". Maybe good PR?

But then, i was on holidays I think around the time of the dragon, so I don't know what went on there.

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This time, I will not take the risk (if there is one); I lost the Dragon sample by not posting in time...

-George

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

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let's get serious here and let Atmel know that we really want to be able to provide feedback for their products and give guidance to ways that would improve the process .

Pete

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It would be nice to have a small LCD built-in for quick projects & simple experimentation with the STK500X---maybe a 2x20 with the usualt bank of switches located under the display.

I've used a PIC devlopment board with the small display & it was put to good use.

hoyt

[/b]

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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STK500X wish:

ZIF sockets for the extension module connectors (or at least not-so-firm jacks). For the few times I was changing the module, everytime I were afraid that either the jacks are ripped off or the module is damaged because I need so much force to get it off the STK500.

Ingo

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avrcandies wrote:
It would be nice to have a small LCD built-in for quick projects & simple experimentation with the STK500X---maybe a 2x20 with the usualt bank of switches located under the display.

I've used a PIC devlopment board with the small display & it was put to good use.

hoyt

[/b]

And a few extra VCC + GND pins for powering some external equipment , wo. disturbing the access to all the 10-pin headers.

/Bingo

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A maybe stretching it but onboard Atmel dataflash would be VERY nice.

ZIF is good, all those extra adaptor boards are annoying.

And it should come with ALOT more jumpers!!!

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I missed the web seminar but was there something that suggested that this was going to be anything more than just the RoHS replacement (as others have suggested above) ?

Cliff

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gussy wrote:
A maybe stretching it but onboard Atmel dataflash would be VERY nice.

ZIF is good, all those extra adaptor boards are annoying.

And it should come with ALOT more jumpers!!!

Funnily enough, the STK500 did have an on board dataflash, mounted on the pads near the MEGA8535/90S8535 controller chip. The dataflash part used was made obsolete after a while however, so it is not mounted on most STK500s. With the new design refresh, perhaps a new dataflash part will be added once again.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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every one put a comment maybe he will get a free one but i think it will not be more than a usb STK500

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Oh well, I know it's too much to ask for... but I'm now looking at STK500 + ICE MkII combo on my desk, and a hesitant thought crosses my mind... could they consider gluing the two together? I guess it could be priced at about $150-$200, or maybe higher, and sell like hotcakes.

Artyom

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It has to be more than just a ROHS compliant STK500, I've just received my freebie '500 from the online seminar via Digikey and there's a sticker on the bottom of the box which says it is already ROHS compliant.

.... Also hoping for a repeat of the Dragon freebie thread :wink:

Cheers
Robin

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If it is USB - it would be really cool if it also had a usb to serial converter onboard that was not used (via something like an FTDI chip) so that AVRs could talk to the computer easily.

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I am not that big demaner:
1.
There should allways be deliverd a soldering plug fitting the power connector.

2.
A suitable screw terminal to interconnect GND to all other devices.

HM

HM

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