STK500 to UPDI is working! (was: Enabling XTiny UPDI)

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Wed. Nov 22, 2017 - 02:03 PM
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Thanks to the chips Brian sent me, I have now analyzed the process of how to connect to the UPDI interface. This will eventually allow me to write my STK500v2 to UPDI interface, the objective is to turn a common arduino into a UPDI programmer.

 

But, to start at the beginning, I'm using as sources of information, the xtiny datasheets, of course, but also the pyupdi program done by Atmel people.

 

So, the first thing is to enable the UPDI peripheral. According to the datasheet, this should be done:

 

When the pull-up is detected, the debugger initiates the enable sequence by driving the line low for a minimum of 200ns and a maximum of 1us to ensure that the line is released from the debugger before the UPDI enable sequence is done.

The negative edge is detected by the UPDI, which requests the UPDI clock. The UPDI will continue to drive the line low until the clock is stable and ready for the UPDI to use. The duration of this will vary, depending on the status of the oscillator when the UPDI is enabled. A start-up time between 10us and 200us can be expected.

After this duration, the data line will be released by the UPDI, and pulled-high.

 

But when I looked at the pyupdi code, this initialization sequence was nowhere to be found, instead, a double-break sequence was seemingly used (see datasheet for details on what this is). I could be wrong, because my understanding of python is weak.

 

But anyway, I tested, and indeed the UPDI can be enabled in this alternative way, which greatly simplifies things, because this double-break sequence is also used to recover from errors. The datasheet says:

 

A double BREAK is guaranteed to reset the UPDI from any state.

So it seems, "any state" includes the disabled state, right after power on. And it's so much simpler than the "proper" enable sequence... This should be more clearly explained in the datasheet.

 

Ok, enough talk, I'll show some scope traces now. The yellow trace is the programmer side, blue is target (UPDI) side. Between them is a 4.7k resistor, and VCC is +5V for both.

 

First, a double break sequence:

 

 

This is just as recommended in the datasheet, a pulse of 24.6ms (that is 12 bits at lowest supported baud rate), followed by 1 stop bit, repeated twice.

 

Next trace is a close up on the first falling edge of the first double break sent immediately after powering up the XTiny, you can see that after less than 200ns (this time depends on input capacitance and resistor value), the UPDI reacts by setting the line as low output. Then, after less than 10us, it releases the line, so at the UPDI side, it drifts to a level set by the ratio of the 4.7k resistor and the UPDI pull up. At this moment, the UPDI is enabled.

 

 

 

Finally, on any subsequent double breaks, since the UPDI is already enabled, it doesn't respond by setting a low output state; instead it just stays as input:

 

 

 

Ok, that's it for now, next I will try to start talking to the UPDI.

Tags:

AVR Microcontrollers, megaAVR and tinyAVR
Last Edited: Fri. Dec 15, 2017 - 07:11 PM
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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Thu. Nov 23, 2017 - 03:53 PM
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Ok, I managed to start talking to the UPDI interface. It was not as straightforward as I expected, because the interface has a curious behavior in output mode that is different from your typical UART, that I will comment about today.

 

As I mentioned, I want my project to run on a mega328p based Arduino. Since the 328P only has one hardware USART and it it is connected to the USB interface of the Arduino, I decided to write a software UART to talk to the UPDI.

 

I tested the software UART with a USB/serial adapter and everything was fine. However, when talking to the UPDI, the results were not very reproducible.

 

So I decided to take a look at the UPDI output with the scope, to see if anything was wrong.

The following trace shows the results. It is important to note that the software UART input was configured with pull-up enabled, I didn't think this would cause any problems. However...

 

 

The blue pulses are for debugging, they mark the moment of sampling.

From the yellow trace, it can be seen that the UPDI only goes output low for a brief moment at the beginning of each bit, then the line is kind of released and starts drifting up because of the pull up on the Arduino side. I say "kind of released", because it doesn't actually drifts to VCC, but to mid rail, as if there was a diode to ground on the UPDI side with somewhat over 2V drop.

 

Now this is not how UARTs usually operate, they keep a strong low for the whole bit, right? With the drift up, the Arduino side doesn't always read the correct input, especially if there is noise.

 

So I had to modify the input routine to disable the pull-up while sampling the data from UPDI. Now, the following trace was obtained:

 

 

Now, this problem is solved and I can talk to the UPDI, send commands and get results. For testing, I read the 16 UPDI internal registers from the Tiny1614 I'm using:

 

00100000 00000000 00000110 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
00000000 00000011 00000001 10000010 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000

The 3rd register, Control A, doesn't have the default value of zero because I changed it in my test program to achieve faster transmission (default is 128 guard bits, I changed to 2 guard bits).

 

Now I think the low level issues are mostly gone, so I can start to write the actual STK500 to UPDI interface.

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frog_jr
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Posted by frog_jr: Thu. Nov 23, 2017 - 04:27 PM
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yes

Looking forward to further UPDates and Information.

David

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Mon. Nov 27, 2017 - 03:20 PM
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I've almost finished implementing the UPDI instruction set, so I was playing writing and reading stuff from the peripherals (not actually programming flash yet).

 

However, I found an undocumented feature while using the reset controller (one of the simplest peripherals of the XTiny). This peripheral has a register that holds flags indicating the causes of the resets, called the Reset Flag Register, RSTFR.

 

While reading this register, everything went as expected, the power on reset flag was set, of course, and after causing a reset via UPDI the corresponding flag is also set. All fine.

 

Then, I wanted to clear these flags. The documentation says that these flags are cleared by writing a "1" to them, so I just wrote 0xFF via the UPDI.

But to my surprise, all the flags where in fact set by this procedure. To clear them, I actually needed to write "0".

 

I also tested with interrupt flags, same thing.

 

My conclusion is that flags that are cleared when the CPU writes "1" to them, do not operate the same way when the UPDI is doing the writing. The UPDI can set and clear these flags at will, like normal bits.

 

I wonder if it's possible to trigger interrupts from the UPDI by writing the corresponding flags. If I remember I'll test this when I get to the stage when I'm actually able to upload a program.

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je_ruud
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Posted by je_ruud: Wed. Nov 29, 2017 - 07:09 AM
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I would say this was impossible, because normally the interrupt flags are not writable through any bus at all. It actually sounds like you're using the simulator, where we have allowed exactly this thing.

Which device?

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Wed. Nov 29, 2017 - 12:35 PM
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je_ruud wrote:

I would say this was impossible, because normally the interrupt flags are not writable through any bus at all. It actually sounds like you're using the simulator, where we have allowed exactly this thing.

Which device?

 

It's a real tiny 1614 and not a simulator. Don't tell me this feature is a bug and you want to disable it...

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Thu. Nov 30, 2017 - 03:58 PM
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I wrote an example program, that dumps the entire contents of the target's address space via the UPDI interface. Then, it will send a 1Hz square wave via the target PB2 pin, that can be used to blink a LED (this wave is sent via the UPDI interface, it's not a program loaded on the target).

 

This program is meant to run on an Arduino class platform with a Mega 328P MCU. The interface with the UPDI target is digital pin 6 of the Arduino (via 4.7k resistor), and with the host system, the interface is the Arduino serial port @115200 baud, this is where the data will be sent, so it can be read/captured with a terminal program.

 

In case there is a problem, the Arduino will start blinking it's LED and instead of the address space, the internal UPDI registers will be dumped for diagnostic.

 

The zip file is an AS7 project and includes precompiled binaries and hex file.

 

If anyone wants to try this with UPDI compatible MCUs, I would be grateful for feedback. The MCU will not be written in any way, only reading will take place.

 

 

Attachment(s): 

Package icon UPDI_memdump.zip
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mraardvark
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Posted by mraardvark: Fri. Dec 1, 2017 - 06:50 PM (Reply to #2)
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To get the UPDI response to behave better (and drive the whole bit), you should probably disable the collision detector with the first packet you send, as pyupdi does in the __init__:

 

self.stcs(constants.UPDI_CS_CTRLB, 1 << constants.UPDI_CTRLB_CCDETDIS_BIT)

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Sat. Dec 2, 2017 - 10:09 AM
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mraardvark wrote:

To get the UPDI response to behave better (and drive the whole bit), you should probably disable the collision detector with the first packet you send, as pyupdi does in the __init__:

 

self.stcs(constants.UPDI_CS_CTRLB, 1 << constants.UPDI_CTRLB_CCDETDIS_BIT)

 

You mean the behavior I described in post #2? Thanks, I imagined it would be related with collision detection, good to know it can be disabled if needed (I missed that bit in the datasheet :P).

 

Edit: BTW, could you reveal the meaning of bits 1 and 7 of ASI_SYS_STATUS, or is it some kind of secret? I'm asking, because they are set when my Tiny 1614 is operating normally, so they must signal some kind of "normal operation mode".

Last Edited: Sat. Dec 2, 2017 - 10:17 AM
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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Fri. Dec 15, 2017 - 07:10 PM
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Finally I finished a semi-working version of the STK500 to UPDI interface.

It can be connected to Atmel Studio as a STK500 programmer, though it lacks most functionality. Basically you can program the target or read back memory contents. But fuses can't be changed and never will in this version, only in the avrdude version when it's ready (one day...). EEPROM can't be changed either, but I will implement it later.

The target can't be fully erased or unlocked, but I use the erase/write command so it is possible to program flash in an unlocked chip without a full erase.

 

Now, studio doesn't support the xtiny series for the STK500, so I had to hack some way to get it working. The 3rd signature byte is replaced by 0x0A so that studio thinks it's another chip (with the same amount of flash).

 

So here is a screenshot:

 

 

As you can see, programing was successful but erase before programing must be unchecked. Notice that Studio thinks this is a Mega164P, but in fact it's a Tiny1614wink

I will attach the hex file so you guys can test this with other xtiny chips, if you want. You will need to burn the binary to an Arduino, then disable auto reset with a capacitor and make the proper connections:

 

 

Using this program, low budget hobbyists can now program the xtiny series with a simple Arduino.

When the source code is a bit more polished, I will post it in the projects section. This is kind of pre-alpha.

Oh, almost forgot, don't change the target voltage parameter from the 5.0V default. Other values enable secret functions of the software.

 

 

Attachment(s): 

Binary Data STK2UPDI.hex
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Bronze Markjs
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Posted by js: Fri. Dec 15, 2017 - 08:36 PM
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the objective is to turn a common arduino into a UPDI programmer.

So it will NOT work with a STK500? You may get sued for misrepresentation in you thread title. wink

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Fri. Dec 15, 2017 - 08:51 PM
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Oh, I mean it translates the STK500v2 protocol to the UPDI protocol, working as a STK500 emulator or something like that.

Sorry, you thought it was an adapter for the STK500?

I think such a thing would also be possible to do, in theory. Translate ISP commands to UPDI ones. Very messy, though.

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Thu. Dec 28, 2017 - 12:55 AM
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Finally I think I have my Arduino based programmer for the xtiny series working.

It can program flash, EEPROM, "user row" and fuses via the normal Atmel Studio interface for the STK500, using a series of hacks that I will explain later. Now I'm too sleepy :P

It can also erase locked chips to unlock them, and dump memory contents (including SRAM and the I/O area).

 

Using this feature, I found that the chip erase command also erases the SRAM to all zeroes. Interesting.

Some bugs are caused because a program assumes the RAM is zero on startup, when in fact is random. However, these bugs may not be detected on a freshly programmed chip on first run, because "chip erase" may have reset all the SRAM.

This can lead to much head scratching...

 

Well, I'll post the code tomorrow. The way to interface it with Studio requires quite a bit of explaining.

Last Edited: Thu. Dec 28, 2017 - 12:58 AM
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Posted by joeymorin: Thu. Dec 28, 2017 - 04:38 AM
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Using this feature, I found that the chip erase command also erases the SRAM to all zeroes. Interesting.

This is normal behaviour for a chip erase issued over any programming interface (ISP, HVPP, HVSP).  GP registers, too.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

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"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Thu. Dec 28, 2017 - 11:23 AM (Reply to #14)
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I just never noticed before.

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Posted by joeymorin: Thu. Dec 28, 2017 - 09:45 PM
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It has spawned many a thread over the years.  "My code seems to work, but only immediately after I program the AVR.  If I reset or power cycle after programming, it stops working!"  This is often a clue that the user's code has one or more uninitialised variables, and that they are assumed to be zero.  This is only guaranteed after a chip erase.

 

I don't believe it is mentioned anywhere in any datasheet, unfortunately.  It makes sense to me though.  Doing a chip erase clears lock bits.  If SRAM and GP registers were left unaffected, an attacker could then load up a simple app or use a debug interface to read out their contents, perhaps revealing keys, passwords, or other details.  The risk is low, to be sure, but I appreciate the effort on the part of the Atmel engineers.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Wed. Jan 3, 2018 - 10:57 PM
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I decided to post the code in GitHub, I guess it's better to place it in a repository:

https://github.com/ElTangas/STK2...

 

More instructions on how to use are in post #10.

 

To unlock a locked tiny817 or similar chip, connect pin D5 of the programmer to gnd and then reset the programmer. This will instruct it to do a full erase of the target.

 

To program the "user row" instead of the EEPROM, go to the "Board Settings" of the STK500 and change Vtarget to something other than 5.5V, and program the EEPROM. The data will go to the "user row". If you change Vtarget to 5.5V, data will go to the EEPROM normally again.

 

If you want to read chunks of the memory space, go to the "Board Settings" and change ARef. If you read the flash, it will instead read from address ARef x 10kB. So the default value of 3.2 volts reads from address 32k, which is the flash memory.

 

If you program the flash, the programmer will always write to the flash address of 32kB irrespective of the value of ARef, but if verify is selected and ARef is not 3.2V, the verify will fail because data will be read from the wrong address.

 

To program the fuses, go to the "Lock bits" tab and program the LOCKBIT register with the fuse address. For example, to lock the device, program LOCKBIT with 0x0A.

Then, go to the "Fuses" tab; the "EXTENDED" and "HIGH" fuses will display the current fuse address, while the "LOW" fuse will display the current fuse value.

To change the fuse, set "LOW" to the new value then program the fuses. There are a total of 32 fuse addresses, but only a few are used, the others should be considered reserved, I wouldn't touch them (I have, of course... the ones I changed don't seem to do anything, actually).

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Posted by sparrow2: Wed. Jan 3, 2018 - 11:44 PM
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a look at #2

it looks like a UART in IrDA mode!

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Thu. Jan 11, 2018 - 11:44 PM
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My program had a nasty bug affecting the upload of data to the flash, caused by a misunderstanding on the operation of some UPDI instructions.

The UPDI module has direct and indirect addressing instructions; indirect addressing uses an internal pointer register.
I believed direct addressing would not change this pointer, but it does, therefore it needs to be saved before using a direct addressing instruction if the pointer value is needed later.

Basically, this caused a mess in the upload function, but now it's solved (I hope).

 

Note to Micromel people: this behavior is not explicit in the datasheet, it should be more clear in the UPDI instruction descriptions.

 

Now I'm working on the avrdude version of my UPDI interface, it's going well, but I have to deal with some limitations. Avrdude has a few hardcoded memory types that don't map exactly to the xtiny ones, but I'll devise some workaround.

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Posted by meolsen: Thu. Jan 11, 2018 - 11:54 PM
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Are you aware that we upstreamed UPDI support in avrdude (using the j3 protocol). I guess it was finalized not that many days ago so the code is pretty fresh... But might be interesting to peek at..

:: Morten

 

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Fri. Jan 12, 2018 - 12:13 AM
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Ok, I see. It's the contributions by Jan Egil Ruud, right? I'll take a look.

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Posted by meolsen: Fri. Jan 12, 2018 - 05:19 AM
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Jupp. Think Jörg merged them just a couple of days back...

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Fri. Jan 12, 2018 - 10:41 AM
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I took a look the avrdude patches, it seems a good job in getting avrdude to talk to modern Atmel tools to program UPDI chips, that is understandably your goal.

My goal is just different, I want avrdude to talk to UPDI chips using cheap Arduino clones, so I don't want to patch avrdude or use a modern protocol.

I'm using the stk500v2 protocol. This means I will have to use chip definitions for the avr8x, as you call them, that are different from the official ones you added to avrdude.conf, so I will use some kind of suffix to tell the difference, like "t1614_isp".

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Sun. Jan 14, 2018 - 04:11 PM
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A minor cog in the inner workings of avrdude is interfering with my plans! So I decided to report it as a bug, even though it doesn't manifest itself unless you get creative with the avrdude.conf file, like I'm doing...

Probably it will just be ignored by the developers, but maybe not since it's very simple to fix. The problem is if it breaks something, hopefully not.

 

So, what did I want to do? Since UPDI chips have so many fuses, why not access them all as a block? I found that the xtiny has a total of 32 fuse bytes, though most are undefined, and they form a contiguous block.

I thought: "Easy peasy, I'll define the "fuse" memory in avrdude.conf to be 32 bytes instead of 1 byte. Damn, I'm smart!", and added this line to my t1614 definition in avrdude.conf:

 

     memory "lfuse"                      /* All the Fuses */
        size            = 32;
        read            /* One of the bytes must contain an "o" to mark pollindex byte */
                        =       "0  0  0  0   0  0  0  0   o  0  0  1   0  0  1  0",
                                "1  0  0  a4  a3 a2 a1 a0  0  0  0  0   0  0  0  0";
        ;

I'll skip the details, but bytes 1 and 2 ( o 0 0 1 0 0 1 01 0 0 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0) form the fuse address, 0x1280 + |a4 a3 a2 a1 a0|. So what do I get from my experimental code?

 

C:\Users\JMR_2\Desktop\temp>avrdude -c stk500v2 -b 500000 -P com5 -p t1614 -t

avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.03s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e9422 (probably t1614)
avrdude> dump lfuse
>>> dump lfuse
0000  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
0010  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|

avrdude>

 

All zeroes? But it was working fine with other memory types, for example:

     memory "lock"                      /* All the Fuses */
        size            = 32;
        read            /* One of the bytes must contain an "o" to mark pollindex byte */
                        =       "0  0  0  0   0  0  0  0   o  0  0  1   0  0  1  0",
                                "1  0  0  a4  a3 a2 a1 a0  0  0  0  0   0  0  0  0";
        ;
C:\Users\JMR_2\Desktop\temp>avrdude -c stk500v2 -b 500000 -P com5 -p t1614 -t

avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.03s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e9422 (probably t1614)
avrdude> dump lock
>>> dump lock
0000  00 00 02 ff 00 f6 06 00  00 ff c5 ff ff ff f1 02  |................|
0010  40 2a 45 e4 86 44 a4 54  d1 d3 85 46 94 54 0f 00  |@*E..D.T...F.T..|

avrdude>

That's how it's supposed to look! So finally I figured out that avrdude just ignores address bits a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 in the conf file for fuse memories, and replaces it by hardcoded addresses 0, 1 and 2 for lfuse, hfuse and efuse, so the same byte is read repeatedly.

 

So for now (forever?), I will use the "lock" memory to read/write all the fuses. That's bad because I wanted to access other UPDI memories using the different fuses (peripherals, RAM, etc.), it would probably allow using avrdude in interactive mode to do some limited debugging...

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vishwar1
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Posted by vishwar1: Mon. Apr 2, 2018 - 03:25 AM
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El Tangas. Thank you for sharing your work for others to use. I have a question. I have a few Attiny814 that I purchased and I want to make a prototype before I start to design a PCB with Attiny814 as the brain. I simply want to read a temperature from a thermocouple and store the values in an SD card using Attiny814. While reading the datasheet of Attiny814, it says it uses UPDI to program the chip. Can I use your tool to program the Attiny814 to do this?

 

Sorry if I sound extremely stupid. I am a mechanical engineer with little experience in MATLAB, LabView and Arduino programming, venturing into Atmel Studio and PCB building. Your reply will be mighty helpful. 

 

--

Vish 

---
Vish
An automotive engineer learning about uCs

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Mon. Apr 2, 2018 - 11:09 AM
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Sure, you can use this tool: https://github.com/ElTangas/jtag...

Other things you need:

  • Write your program, for example with Atmel Studio or Arduino IDE
  • Learn how to use the "avrdude" program
  • An arduino to load my tool and use as programmer

 

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vishwar1
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Posted by vishwar1: Mon. Apr 2, 2018 - 12:32 PM
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Thanks a lot man! You are a lifesaver! 

---
Vish
An automotive engineer learning about uCs

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parovoZZ
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Posted by parovoZZ: Sun. Apr 29, 2018 - 06:39 PM
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Hi! I uploaded a hex file to arduino nano. Did so Atmel Studio -> Add target -> Add STK500. Connect nano and select Device programming and Apply. The microcontroller is not connected (not purchased). The Nano indicates the LED RX / TX. Atmel Studio writes 

Unable to connect to tool STK500 (COM12)

 

 

So it should be? Need to connect a microcontroller with UPDI interface?

Thank you!

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Sun. Apr 29, 2018 - 10:49 PM (Reply to #28)
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Yes, you need to have a target chip connected, or you will get that error.

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parovoZZ
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Posted by parovoZZ: Mon. Apr 30, 2018 - 07:17 PM
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Ок!

Thank you!

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姚华
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Posted by 姚华: Wed. May 23, 2018 - 10:42 AM
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I enable the UPDI with fuse override of RESET pin. Must the VCC pin and the UPDI/RESET pin be 5 V ?

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Wed. May 23, 2018 - 10:53 PM (Reply to #31)
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I don't know exactly what you are asking, but the UPDI/reset pin is tolerant to high voltage (up to 12V), so the target's VCC can be lower than 5V even if the programmer uses 5V.

However, the UPDI pin must be able to output some voltage that is interpreted as "high" by the 5V programmer, so probably VCC on the target chip needs to be at least 3V.

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westfw
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Posted by westfw: Tue. Oct 9, 2018 - 09:36 AM
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so ... did anyone figure out how to get to some of the other UPDI funcions, like the "hardware breakpoints", or (probably) single-step?

 

(Does anything USE the hardware breakpoints?  I had some hints that my MPIDE/4809XplainedPro was still doing "program BRK instructions into the flash.")

 

Last Edited: Tue. Oct 9, 2018 - 09:40 AM
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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Tue. Oct 9, 2018 - 10:29 AM
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There was a poster working on that, but there are no news:

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

https://www.avrfreaks.net/commen...

 

The best I can give you is my custom search for the old datasheet with "bonus info" on the UPDI chapter: https://www.google.com/search?q=...

 

edit: do a search for "OCD" inside that pdf.

Last Edited: Tue. Oct 9, 2018 - 10:32 AM
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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 04:33 PM
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Hey ElTangas,

Great work on the STK2UPDI. I was just wondering if the avrdude part has been finalized. I see that the last post here was from OCT 2018, and you had said you were having problems with the fuse.

If it is complete, could you give me an idea of how to code it?
I got the basics of connecting the nano to the tiny part. I want to know how to upload the code. I am using arduino to compile the code and upload it through avrdude. So what board should I use to compile it?

Here is my problem. I'm trying to connect the nano to the computer via serial pins. My design needs to have the nano as thin as possible and so no USB header. I tried the JTAG2UPDI but there it would not receive any commands over serial. Wondering if STK2UPDI would work for me.

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:06 PM
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Hi, stk2updi was just an hack and I'm not developing it anymore. I just occasionally update jtag2updi.

 

ChrisThomasNCA wrote:
I'm trying to connect the nano to the computer via serial pins. My design needs to have the nano as thin as possible and so no USB header. I tried the JTAG2UPDI but there it would not receive any commands over serial.

 

Can you give more details? You actually have an old PC with serial port? Jtag2updi should work with serial directly.

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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:21 PM
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I have a pretty latest laptop..lol... 

I have a USB to serial adapter. 

I have a tiny404 located in a hard to reach part of a RC car. Luckily I have access to the UPDI pin and other SPI pins. 

I want to have an easy to connect / portable programmer. I have come across those usb2updi programmers but that would mean sending wires along. 
So I uploaded the JTAG2UPDI code on the nano(old Bootloader). Removed the USB port. 3Dprinted the smallest possible box that can have a connector and nano. and tried using the serial pins on the nano(connected to the computer) to program the tiny.

I am just not receiving any response from the nano. It just keeps going into timeout. Baud rate tried -57600 -115200

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ki0bk
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Posted by ki0bk: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:28 PM
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ChrisThomasNCA wrote:
I have a USB to serial adapter. 

ChrisThomasNCA wrote:
I am just not receiving any response from the nano.

USB serial adapters come in two basic types, USB/ttl serial (what you want) or USB/RS232 serial (not what you want), which do you have?

And don't forget, you need three wires for the ttl to work, TXD/RXD/GND, with TXD->RXD, RXD->TXD, GND-GND connections (USB-AVR)

 

Jim

 

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:31 PM
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I have the USB/ttl kind. I have 4 wires connected. VCC, TX,RX and GND.

And I thought maybe I did the RXTX connections wrong so I did try reversing it. Still no success.

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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:35 PM
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I know this may sound like a stupid question. 

What if I open a teraterm monitor and try sending one of the basic commands like the sign-on command. 

1b0000010000000e01f397
Should I get any response?

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obdevel
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Posted by obdevel: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:46 PM
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ChrisThomasNCA wrote:

I have the USB/ttl kind. I have 4 wires connected. VCC, TX,RX and GND.

And I thought maybe I did the RXTX connections wrong so I did try reversing it. Still no success.

 

Arduinos generally need the USB/serial adapter's DTR signal to toggle the reset pin and start the bootloader. Pressing the reset button at the appropriate time might have the same effect.

 

DTR is connected to the MCU's reset pin with a 100nF cap to ground. There is usually also a 10K pull-up to Vcc.

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ki0bk
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Posted by ki0bk: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:48 PM
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ChrisThomasNCA wrote:
1b0000010000000e01f397

 

Most terminal programs (Teraterm) only send ascii, so no it would send the string " 1b0000010000000e01f397"

 

Real term can send binary and files

 

Jim

edit: added link: https://realterm.sourceforge.io/

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

Last Edited: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 07:49 PM
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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 08:15 PM
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I had problem installing it and running it. Exception about an OLE registry.
Instead I wrote up a simple code that will serial.write on the arduino and used a second arduino to send the command to the nano.

byte b[50];
len1=myFile.readBytesUntil('\n',b,50);
for (int i=0;i<(len1-1);i++)
      {
        Serial2.write(b[i]);
        Serial.write(b[i]);
      }

So basically just reading the bytes from a txt file. using Serial.write to send it in bytes. I am printing it out on the serial monitor to just make sure it is coming across right.

I have a timeout function that has a print saying Waiting for nano.

The response I get on the debug terminal - 

1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano

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ki0bk
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Posted by ki0bk: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 08:49 PM
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ChrisThomasNCA wrote:
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano
1b0000010000000e01f397
Waiting on nano

 

That string of ascii hex characters needs to be converted to binary values when sent to the nano.

ex. the first two characters "1b" needs to be sent as a single binary value "00011011" or decimal 27, which is a non-printing character on your debug terminal(some terminal emulator programs can display binary (hex) char.)

and continue converting each hex pair into its binary value.

Likewise, any response from the nano will need to be converted from binary back into printable ascii hex for display on the debug terminal.

 

Jim

 

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Wed. Sep 23, 2020 - 08:55 PM
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Doesn't Arduinos Serial.write do just that? Convert each byte into binary and send it across..
I know I can't use Serial.print for this but I read that the write function should work for writing bytes

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Thu. Sep 24, 2020 - 08:37 AM
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ChrisThomasNCA wrote:
I am just not receiving any response from the nano. It just keeps going into timeout. Baud rate tried -57600 -115200

 

These are not the correct baud rates, you need to read the protocol documentation carefully:

 

2.1.1 RS-232 Connection
The RS-232 connection’s power-on settings are 19,200 bps, 8N1, no handshake.
However, using the Set Parameter command and the Baud rate parameter, the baud
rate can be changed. 

 

I suppose you already have the documentation for the jtagice mk2 protocol that jtag2updi uses, but if you don't here it is:  http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/doc2587.pdf

 

Edit: note that the protocol doesn't actually support UPDI, but you can use the PDI commands instead (i.e. as if the tiny404 was a xmega). That's how jtag2updi operates.

Last Edited: Thu. Sep 24, 2020 - 08:42 AM
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ChrisThomasNCA
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Posted by ChrisThomasNCA: Thu. Sep 24, 2020 - 02:08 PM
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Thanks

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