clawson 
the most popular programming language
It's true I get as many different results as google hits for "most popular programming language" but I'd have said this was fairly representative. It's true Python seems to be "on the up" but not sure if it's hit the top in 2018?
awneil 
By what metric do they measure that I wonder?
Yes, I wondered that!
I suspect they're also making the all-too-common mistake of saying "popular" when they mean "widespread".
Windows is very widespread - but is not popular with all who have to use it ...
EDIT
Note that the opening quote:
awneil wrote:
the most popular programming language
Come from this post: https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/never-mind-all-old-school-c-arduino-now-does-python
So it wasn't me that said it - I was just quoting Adafruit.
You can always find some metric, like this one, which is based on github repositories. So, if we ignore JavaScript, Python has become the most popular language. Not that I have any knowledge of Python, I just know it's interpreted, statements don't end in ";" and blocks are indented instead of having {}. Whatever.
clawson If I create one Github with 1,000,000 LOC written in C++ then 500 repos of Python with 1,000 LOC which of those is "more popular" ? In total there are twice as many lines of C++ as Python but 200 times as many repos for Python than C++.
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
(which reminds me that when I did Cambridge entrance exams one of the questions was simply that Disraeli phrase followed by "Discuss.". Needless to say, I didn't get in ;-)
awneil Python has become the (sic) most popular language.
You mean, "the most popular (sic) language amongst projects that are published on GitHub"
Again, Widespread != Popular
Those results are based on events including people getting stuff from GitHub - it has no way of knowing how many people are getting Python stuff from GitHub and thinking, "Oh **** - it's in Python".
For the record, I do like Python - it's dodgy statistics I hate ...
Statistics are fine so long as you know the methodology. For this reason whenever possible I link to the sources when posting a possibly controversial statistic.
I thought that "Arduino" IS C++? Isn't Arduino "just" an IDE?
Jim
Yup, I wouldn't classify "Arduino" as a programming language.
awneil Statistics are fine so long as you know the methodology.
Very true - as Cliff illustrates very well in #4.
I could add that my brother is a statistician - and he gets very annoyed at people bending statistics to inappropriate and invalid conclusions!
I'm sure we've all seen examples of spurious correlations: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
@awneil wrote:
Windows is very widespread - but is not popular with all who have to use it ...
+1, +2, +3, .... I couldn't agree more!
clawson I thought that "Arduino" IS C++? Isn't Arduino "just" an IDE?
1) it's a well designed PCB
2) it's a bootloadable MCU system using avrdude
3) it's an IDE witten in Java
4) it a C++ wrapper around a standard main()
5) it's a comprehensive core C++ library (serials, timers, PWM, ADC etc)
6) it's a whole world of 3rd party C++ library code
A lot of people talk about the "Arduino language" when what they really mean are (4), (5) and maybe (6) above combined.
Of course a lot of people call Arudino "a language" because they simply don't recognise C++ when they see it!
It's because it is so many thing that there is so much confusion when people say things like "yeah but I want to move away from Arduino". What they probably mean is that they want to retain the PCB and the bootloading/avrdude but then stuff it full of something else that does not involve (3) .. (6).
awneil Why do you think I chose that particular example ... ?!
awneil Arduino is ...
I guess "ecosystem" would be the buzzword here ?
Now, when one says (or writes)
examples of spurious correlations
It is really important to remember:
Correlation does not causation make! (Kai Ryssdal, "Marketplace" - American Public Media)
awneil my brother's favourite quote!
1) it's a well designed PCB
2) it's a bootloadable MCU system using avrdude
3) it's an IDE witten in Java
4) it a C++ wrapper around a standard main()
5) it's a comprehensive core C++ library (serials, timers, PWM, ADC etc)
6) it's a whole world of 3rd party C++ library code
You forgot one very important thing:
7) Works on Mac OSX
--Mike
awneil 7) Works on Mac OSX
What does?
Only (3) - I think?
clawson What does? Only (3) - I think?
But just because it runs on Mac is not necessarily what makes it "Arduino". There are other AVR dev systems that work on Apple's oddball PCs too. So I don't agree with it as (7) anyway.
awneil I thought the whole Arduino thing worked on Mac ?
But, as you explained in #11, the "whole Arduino thing" actually consists of 6 parts; only one of them - number 3, the IDE - has any reliance upon any OS at all:
|
1) it's a well designed PCB |
Host irrelevant | |
|
2) it's a bootloadable MCU system using avrdude
|
Host irrelevant | |
|
Host relevant | |
|
4) it a C++ wrapper around a standard main() |
Host irrelevant | |
|
5) it's a comprehensive core C++ library (serials, timers, PWM, ADC etc) |
Host irrelevant | |
|
6) it's a whole world of 3rd party C++ library code |
Host irrelevant |
My point was that I can develop on a Mac without ever touching Windows so I'm very grateful for the Arduino platform. It'd be amazing if the recently released Vidor 400 with the FPGA has a way to do Verilog synthesis+place&route on the Mac too - something I've been waiting for for over a decade!
--Mike
awneil My point is that's purely down to the Arduino IDE - it has nothing to do with any of the rest of the Arduino "platform" or "ecosystem".
Well, to support arduino (I'm talking just about AVR-Arduino) a platform needs quite a few requirements:
edit: We all know how easy it is to accidentally/purposely break C portability and bind it to a specific platform. Fortunately avrdude, avr-gcc and binutils were designed to be portable, so the authors of these tools also deserve much credit for the existence of Arduino.
awneil But I think that all comes under Cliff's (3) ?
>> 7) Works on Mac OSX
Only (3) [the IDE] - I think?
Well, there's also the choice of "host interface", and compiler, and so on.
It wouldn't have been uncommon for Arduino to join the ranks of "well, I guess you could theoretically build the tools for MacOS, but we haven't done that, and the driver for the USB thing we did only works on Windows..." Getting (at least) CLI compilers for MacOS and Linux is a lot easier than it used to be, in general. I'm not sure whether that's a result of customer demand, or just embarrassment that "an IDE put together by a bunch of art majors can do it!"
I've always considered myself relatively OS-agnostic. "If a tool only works on Windows, I'll use a Windows system" (or some hack. Back in the EAGLE 3 days I had set up EAGLE on linux, accessed via X-windows on the Mac.) But my "main system" has been a Mac for a long time, and the whole plug&play nature of Arduino was a surprisingly big factor in my getting back into microcontroller programming.
valusoft 
Of course a lot of people call Arudino "a language"
