Smallest wire harness right angle connector ever is...?

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I've been using crimp pin wire harness connectors called PA series. I want to put a right-angle connector on a circuit board so I can clip another board into it VIA a wire harness. Size is a primary driver. PA for 4 wires measures something around 12mm x 14mm footprint more or less. Is there a smaller type of wire harness connector than this? I do not want to directly solder wires into my board. Any help appreciated.

TLDR?: I want similar to the picture only smaller

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What pitch spacing?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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For our reference the shown connector linked image appears to be this DigiKey item:
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/...(D)S04B-PASK-2(LF)(SN)/455-1849-ND/926755

Listed as a JST Sales America part (D)S04B-PASK-2(LF)(SN) with 2.0mm pin pitch.

Manufacturer part page http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/d...

Stan

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There are a bunch of options; without specific requirements, it's a bit hard to know what would be best.

For individually crimped wires, the JST SH series is a 1mm pitch connector:

http://www.jst.com/home21.html

They claim a board footprint of about 6mm x 5mm for a 4 way side entry socket.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are smaller connectors out there (flat flex connectors are incredibly small).

- S

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Except for the problems with someone plugging the "wrong" cable into it, you might consider a Micro B USB socket. Cables, of course, are also readily available with pre-molded strain reliefs.

JC

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Micro-HDMI ? (Same remarks as JocJC mentoined for micro-USB)

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Thanks for the suggestions. Searched for these things for a while on digikey before I posted. I have a better idea of what I'm doing now that I got these answers.

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That JST SH stuff looks great, pricing also look very reasonable.

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toalan wrote:
That JST SH stuff looks great, pricing also look very reasonable.

JST is about as cheap as connectors come. I don't know of anybody that makes cheaper wire to board connectors.

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I'm stuck buying a million dollar tool now... oh well lol

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Ah yes, JST tools are silly expensive. Depending on the quantity you need, you could order cable assemblies instead.

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smkipus wrote:
I'm stuck buying a million dollar tool now... oh well lol

If you are talking about a crimper, check out this:
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/pr...

It says the crimper can handle "JST connector crimp pins".

Pololu also carries JST pins and connectors.

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Maybe I will try that Pololu crimper but I suspect it won't work for me. Those double crimpers that crimp the wire and insulation at the same time don't let me see if the wire is inserted the correct distance while I'm crimping. My hands aren't steady enough to keep things perfectly aligned while I crimp.

For my amateur uses I've found a way to make the JST IDC connectors work, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to others.

Last Edited: Fri. May 11, 2012 - 03:48 PM
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Chuck99 wrote:
smkipus wrote:
I'm stuck buying a million dollar tool now... oh well lol

If you are talking about a crimper, check out this:
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/pr...

It says the crimper can handle "JST connector crimp pins".

Pololu also carries JST pins and connectors.


That crimper is just for JST RCY series crimp pins. Not all JST crimp pins.

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lagger wrote:
Ah yes, JST tools are silly expensive. Depending on the quantity you need, you could order cable assemblies instead.

Yep - I've done the same in the past.

Their crimpers tend to be about half a grand each. Not cheap but in the commercial world that doesn't really matter. I suspect you can find cheap knockoffs from China.

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nleahcim wrote:
I suspect you can find cheap knockoffs from China.

Maybe also from Japan:

http://www.engineer.jp/en/produc...

(about $60 from amazon).

- S

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The Engineer PA-09 is the crimper I have been looking for for years. It does one crimp at a time so I can see what I'm doing.

In the meantime I made a tool from a piece of aluminum sheet that will push a wire into the IDC cavity of the JST 1.5mm IDC connector. I think that is easier than crimping pins. I guess I will hold on to my $60 for a while longer.

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steve17 wrote:
Maybe I will try that Pololu crimper but I suspect it won't work for me. Those double crimpers that crimp the wire and insulation at the same time don't let me see if the wire is inserted the correct distance while I'm crimping. My hands aren't steady enough to keep things perfectly aligned while I crimp.

FWIW, when I use a double crimper I put the connector in the tool and squeeze just enough to hold the connector in place, then I stick the wire in until I just see the tip come out the other side of the tool, and I finish the crimp. I get very consistent results.

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I've always been a lousy crimper. I do try to look for the wire coming out the other end. Maybe my old eyes are not good enough or my hands are not steady enough. I get inconsistent results.

With the big 0.1 inch style connectors, I can do a half-assed crimp, sometimes with needle nose pliers, and then solder it.

The solder trick doesn't work with the smaller connectors because when the insulation gets hot it shrivels up the wire so far that I have bare wire showing after I install the crimped pin.

Anyway I can do the IDC thing pretty well I think, so I will stick with that for the foreseeable future.

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steve17 wrote:
I've always been a lousy crimper. I do try to look for the wire coming out the other end. Maybe my old eyes are not good enough or my hands are not steady enough. I get inconsistent results.

With the big 0.1 inch style connectors, I can do a half-assed crimp, sometimes with needle nose pliers, and then solder it.

The solder trick doesn't work with the smaller connectors because when the insulation gets hot it shrivels up the wire so far that I have bare wire showing after I install the crimped pin.

Anyway I can do the IDC thing pretty well I think, so I will stick with that for the foreseeable future.


If you use wire with high temperature insulation you won't have the pull back problem. Try wires with Teflon, silicone rubber, or any other high temperature insulation.

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nleahcim wrote:
If you use wire with high temperature insulation you won't have the pull back problem. Try wires with Teflon, silicone rubber, or any other high temperature insulation.
I use ribbon cable. I don't seem to get a choice of insulation.

I remember teflon wire. When I was a field software engineer I was once given a task of changing some wiring in some kind of big switch box. On the outside there were many push buttons. On the inside it was a rats nest of teflon insulated wire. It had to be teflon because it was impossible to stick a soldering iron in there without hitting a lot of wires.

The teflon was great except for one thing. It was damn near impossible to strip the insulation off the ends. That's the first and last time I used teflon wire.

That silicone wire sounds good, but like I said, all my wiring these days is with ribbon cable.

Besides, you ain't supposed to solder those crimp pins. Apparently there are millions of people that can crimp them, but I struggle. And those crimp pins for the 1.5 mm connectors are tiny. I might accidentally inhale them. ;)

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steve17 wrote:
nleahcim wrote:
If you use wire with high temperature insulation you won't have the pull back problem. Try wires with Teflon, silicone rubber, or any other high temperature insulation.
I use ribbon cable. I don't seem to get a choice of insulation.

I remember teflon wire. When I was a field software engineer I was once given a task of changing some wiring in some kind of big switch box. On the outside there were many push buttons. On the inside it was a rats nest of teflon insulated wire. It had to be teflon because it was impossible to stick a soldering iron in there without hitting a lot of wires.

The teflon was great except for one thing. It was damn near impossible to strip the insulation off the ends. That's the first and last time I used teflon wire.

That silicone wire sounds good, but like I said, all my wiring these days is with ribbon cable.

Besides, you ain't supposed to solder those crimp pins. Apparently there are millions of people that can crimp them, but I struggle. And those crimp pins for the 1.5 mm connectors are tiny. I might accidentally inhale them. ;)


Teflon is awful to strip. Can't argue that one! At a previous job we used 36 AWG (7x44 AWG stranding) wires with super thin Teflon insulation. We had to get thermal strippers that melted the Teflon away to strip them. Most Teflons also have cold flow problems. That can be an annoying problem...

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So I found a crimper on Ebay for 25 dollars which claimed to do the JST pins for 28AWG (american wire gauge), this is the largest wire that supposedly fits in the SH/SR JST series. I really wish we could have bought the official tool from JST instead of some goofy knockoff. Thanks for the responses from this thread. I'm going to order some SH series crimp pins and hopefully going cheap on the crimper doesn't bite me in the behind. I'd show you guys a picture but I bought the only one they had on Ebay and they took down the ad. Anyways, really really helpful thread here. Here's a followup question, I didn't do any searches on my query though so I won't be offended if I'm told there's a million threads already on the subject.

What company makes the strongest 28AWG wire (multistranded)? Some 28 gauge I have I can rip in half with ease or bends 10 times and breaks. I found that the telephone wire that goes into my phone has some pretty tough wire in it. What is the strongest 28AWG wire known to man which can endure lots of bends? Seems to me that all the different wires I've seen have different strengths. I've seen some of my wires are copper, others are some kind of silver metal (iron probably? idk). What material that makes up the wire's strands is the strongest?

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smkipus wrote:
What company makes the strongest 28AWG wire (multistranded)? Some 28 gauge I have I can rip in half with ease or bends 10 times and breaks. I found that the telephone wire that goes into my phone has some pretty tough wire in it. What is the strongest 28AWG wire known to man which can endure lots of bends? Seems to me that all the different wires I've seen have different strengths. I've seen some of my wires are copper, others are some kind of silver metal (iron probably? idk). What material that makes up the wire's strands is the strongest?

Generally speaking, all wire you're going to find will be almost perfectly pure copper. You'll find a couple exceptions (some audiophiles like to use Silver), but this is generally pretty true. Some will have a coating like tin on them to make them easier to solder to, but that does not affect bend life. There are some copper alloys (Percon 24, alloy 135, etc) that drastically increase bend life - but they're rare and expensive. So in other words - you're stuck with copper.

However, stranding drastically increases bend life. Higher standcount = higher bend life. For 28 AWG, the most common stranding you'll see is 7x36 AWG (in other words - 7 strands of 36 AWG wire twisted together). That will definitely be better than 1x28AWG. Going up in strandcount will improve things - just depends on how much you want to spend.

Finally, and probably most importantly - the wire insulation plays a crucial role in flex life. One of the real killers of flex life is kinking wires really hard. This is much harder to do with stiffer insulations like Teflon (vs PVC). Similarly, thicker insulations will generally be helpful for this.

OK, that's probably enough on this topic... don't want to put anybody to sleep! Hope this helps!

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nleahcim wrote:
Generally speaking, all wire you're going to find will be almost perfectly pure copper. You'll find a couple exceptions (some audiophiles like to use Silver), but this is generally pretty true. Some will have a coating like tin on them to make them easier to solder to, but that does not affect bend life. There are some copper alloys (Percon 24, alloy 135, etc) that drastically increase bend life - but they're rare and expensive. So in other words - you're stuck with copper.

However, stranding drastically increases bend life. Higher standcount = higher bend life. For 28 AWG, the most common stranding you'll see is 7x36 AWG (in other words - 7 strands of 36 AWG wire twisted together). That will definitely be better than 1x28AWG. Going up in strandcount will improve things - just depends on how much you want to spend.

Finally, and probably most importantly - the wire insulation plays a crucial role in flex life. One of the real killers of flex life is kinking wires really hard. This is much harder to do with stiffer insulations like Teflon (vs PVC). Similarly, thicker insulations will generally be helpful for this.

OK, that's probably enough on this topic... don't want to put anybody to sleep! Hope this helps!

Thank you very much for your time in writing this.

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If someone can find a way to make the PA-09 work for JST SH connectors, I'd love to know. However, I have not been able to make it work. The problem is that the SH connector is 1 mm pitch, but the PA-09 will only produce 1 mm crimps--i.e., exactly wide enough that the two terminals touch. For JST SH, I suspect you need something like 0.8 mm crimps.

Michael

P.S. For what it's worth, although the tool doesn't seem to work with JST SH, my experience with this seller (eloot) on eBay was fantastic:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PA-09-Crimp-tool-Crimper-JST-XH-Molex-KK-Crimping-plier-JAPAN-micro-open-barrel-/130615149628?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e6945043c#ht_5853wt_1310

If you're looking to buy the PA-09 tool for other JST connectors, this guy gets the thumbs-up from me.

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I know in the past Hirose had some pretty small connectors, dont know if they can be bought through digikey. Have you checked out farnell?? From the head they have smaller connectors that you mentioned.

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1 mm pitch is very small. Maybe you can use the 1.5 mm connectors.

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Have you considered the JST SR plug? It fits into the same header as the SH but it is IDC rather than being a housing for crimp pins.

I'm using the 1.5mm version, ZR and ZH. I found it rather easy to make a tool to press the wires into the IDC slots.

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Hmm... I'll look into it steve17, thanks! We're still trying to figure out what to go with to avoid the costly tool. The one I bought from EBay for 27 bucks which claimed to go down to 28AWG JST crimp pins didn't work (That's what I get for going cheaper than cheap). The 3.7 mm thickness advertised on the side entry type for the zh is the biggest trade off I see compared to the sh series which only sits 2.95mm thick... trading .8mm and a slightly bigger footprint for the ease you claim the ZR ZH series has makes me want to go that way.

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I guess the 1.5 mm would be easier. That's why I use them. But my main point was the IDC vs. crimp pin.

I think both the 1.0 mm and 1.5 mm JST headers will accept two different free-hanging connectors. The one you have uses crimp pins, but there is another one that has slots where you press in the wires. The trick is to get the wires pressed in there.

I'm not saying the IDC are better or easier in general, but for me they were easier and they seem to do the job.

So there are 3 possibilities. 1.5 mm crimp, 1.0 mm IDC and 1.5 mm IDC.

http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/p...

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How does the wire press in there? Do you just use a skinny punch and jam it in lol? I wikipedia'd the insulation displacement connector and it makes it look like the wires snap in because the housing/socket has a locking lever thing?? ....

The SR connector you linked me to doesn't have that thing that goes over top of the wires? I'd want use the side mount variety and it won't cost me a tool.

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As I said, I use 1.5 mm. If you use 1.5 mm, you might be ablt to use the crimp pins. The holes in the housings are 1 mm wide.

Here are 5 pictures that show how I use the IDC connectors.

To drive the wires deep into the slots I made a tool from scrap aluminum sheet, 1 mm thick. I got it at Home Depot as a Door Push Plate.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/...

I cut two slots in it to clear the two insulation piercing contacts. I used a jeweler's saw and I number 5 blade. That blade is .084 mm thick with 35 teeth per inch. You may be able to use a hacksaw with a fine cut blade (32 TPI).

http://www.jewelrysupply.com/pro...
http://www.jewelrysupply.com/pro...

I also filed the tool thinner where it inserts into the little plastic strain relief. I don't know if that's necessary. When I first tried these connectors I mangled one of them. I guess it didn't hurt much though.

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More pictures.

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Really cool =)

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Somebody should be able to make an insertion tool better than mine for peanuts. Where is it? Why doesn't JST sell a cheap one?

The classic squeeze on connectors for ribbon cable have everything built in. Just insert wire, put it in a vise, and squeeze.

These connectors don't have the die that forces the wire home. All we need is something cheap that goes in the vise along with the connector and wire.

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Yah, the problem is size is the key driver with my project. Those big ribbon cables are great if you are a xerox machine that weighs a million pounds. Like you say, all you'd need is a specially shaped indestructible piece of metal to go inside a pair of channel locking pliers and squeeze. I'm going to buy some of these connectors today and try them out, the 1.5 mil spacing. I'll post some of my wire harnessing this week or next week =)