Professional AVR Programmer with target power

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Hi all,

I need a professional AVR Programmer (for mega48) which is capable of delivering target power for the AVR - the surrounding logic is unpowered and isolated during the programming cycle. So, the programmer only needs to provide the power for the AVR itself.

Any experience or recommendation from the freaks?

Thanks,
HJ

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Whats the problem of using an e.g. ATAVRISP programmer and modify it yourself ?

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heinrichs.hj wrote:
Hi all,

I need a professional AVR Programmer (for mega48) which is capable of delivering target power for the AVR


Isn't that sort of the other way around?

Typically, the ISP programmer takes it's power from the target (ATAVRISP-MK I) and USB & target for the (ATAVRISP-MK II) - the exception would be the STK500.

But all three of these programmers are professional programmers.

The only parallel programmer I personally know of is the STK500 and, well, it is self powered.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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There is a thread 'Is there a need for another programmer?' that describes a group buy for a standalone programmer... it might have the feature you want

Imagecraft compiler user

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Thanks for all your comments.

does anybody here in the forum have experience with this programmer?

http://www.e-lab.de/programmer/isp_en.html

From the description it seems to have all features that I require.

Best regards,
HJ

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Quote:
From the description it seems to have all features that I require.
Does NOT say anything about Mega or Tiny chips, only 89 series which could be 8051 like chips.

So what is the problem with an AVRISP and you put a 5V power pack to power it and the target? (as suggested above) You would only need 2x6pin headers mounted on a bit of veroboard, no need to hack into the standard programmer of any kind.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Carl, thanks for your feedback.

Many of the mega and tiny AVRs are on the support list.

Your suggestion would easily work for me in the lab.
The problem is, that programming will not only be done in the lab but also by support people at different sites of my company (Germany, Taiwan, ...). That's why the programming sequence is supposed to be as simple as possible.

Kind regards,
HJ

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Quote:

Typically, the ISP programmer takes it's power from the target (ATAVRISP-MK I) and USB & target for the (ATAVRISP-MK II) - the exception would be the STK500.

I don't know how "typical" it is for the programmer to be powered from the target, or to not power the target. We do it all the time, using e.g., STK500 to power targets during dev and ISP. (the VTARGET jumper gets a workout)

In any case, for OP hj, get a regulated wall-wart of the desired Vcc voltage such as 3V or 5V. Attach to the Vcc & Gnd connections on the target side of the AVRISP (I or II).

If your target is powered, don't plugg the wall-wart into a live outlet. If your target is not powered, plug in the wall-wart.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:
That's why the programming sequence is supposed to be as simple as possible.
Then get a standalone programmer where you could preprogram all the info for the chip and it is a single push button operation. You would still need to supply some power source.
This is one I'm trying out when ready:
https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=56249&highlight=another+programmer
You can get similar types from other companies too, but we like to support fellow freaks :)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I posted photos here that show an easy mod to an AVRISP MKII to provide 3.3V or 5V target power.

Cheers,

Tom

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tblough wrote:
I posted photos here that show an easy mod to an AVRISP MKII to provide 3.3V or 5V target power.

Okay Lee... I was just going to let your comment go. But I have to bite and ask...

If the PC powers the USB side of the ATAVRISP-MK II, and the target powers the interface side of the thing, why would you nee to externally power the programmer. I mean, if the target has a method to connect a programmer at all, it would have pins 2 & 6 supplying power too, wouldn't it? And if there was no programming header, the service technician would be hacking into the target board, trying to make connections - two of which would be VCC & GND - and certainly RESET, MISO, MOSI, SCK & GND - at a minimum. So, the designer not providing VCC would be really stupid!

The inclusion of externally connecting a power source seems to be defeating the whole purpose of the ATAVRISP-MK II.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:

Okay Lee... I was just going to let your comment go. But I have to bite and ask...

If the PC powers the USB side of the ATAVRISP-MK II, and the target powers the interface side of the thing, why would you nee to externally power the programmer. ...

In the case of the Mk II, it isn't powering the programmer per se, but powering the target so the Mk II can see the Vcc level and give a green light.

Many (most?) apps are more than just a board with an AVR. There could be separate power supply, and/or input board(s), and/or output board(s), and/or UI, etc. It is often desireable or necessary to just work with the AVR board. Programming a batch of boards before integration into the app comes to mind. For apps that only need one Vcc voltage level to function I often work with programmer power through most of development. [Side note: your voltage regulators need to be happy being "back powered"--not all are.]

We have a modular system where each module has an AVR, and there are about a dozen different types. The board house routinely ISP-powers (via the wall-wart as I described) the boards during test and commissioning. It would be ungainly at best and near impossible at worst to have the "system" there with 44VAC 3-phase and control transformer and power supply module, when all we need is 5V from a $10 wall wart.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:

The problem is, that programming will not only be done in the lab but also by support people at different sites of my company (Germany, Taiwan, ...). That's why the programming sequence is supposed to be as simple as possible.

We have had good success with the "keyfob programmers" from Nort Pole Engineering. There is an option for the "keyfob" to have a battery to power the AVR during ISP.
http://www.npe-inc.com/ittrium/v...
http://www.npe-inc.com/ittrium/v...

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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At university I have to program a MSP430. The controller is placed on a very simple board which contains only the basics like crystals JTAG connector and general pin connectors. No power regulator, no RS232 level shifter, etc.
The JTAG ptogrammer is a parallel port dongle. The datasheet claims that it could power up the MSP430. But I don't trust it. As soon as I hook up some other peripherals the parallel port power supply will fail.

So I build the board on the attached picture. The board contains a 3.3V low drop regulator (MAX882) which is powered by the USB plug of my laptop. In addition I added a low power RS232 level shifter (MAX3224) to the board.

The USB plug contains a 5V power supply. It can supply up to 500mA but any current higher than 100mA must be enabled via USB interface. Thus you only get max. 100mA with my solution. For short cut protection I added a resistor between USB Vcc and the regulator input. This limits the max. (3.3V regulated) current to 50mA. But that's still more than enough for my project.

Tom's solution looks very neat, but I don't know how much current would be available for the target because I don't know the max current consumption of the AVRISP MKII.

Regards
Sebastian

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Quote:
"keyfob programmers" from Nort Pole Engineering.
What's the matter with all these programmers manufacturers, don't they know that 10 pin ISP connectors are "passe"?

I have been looking at a few stand alone programmers and they all insist on using 10 pin ISP header and then try to flog you a 6 pin adapter. Does ANYONE still use the 10 pin headers...apart from the programmers manufacturers??

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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heinrichs.hj wrote:
Thanks for all your comments.

does anybody here in the forum have experience with this programmer?

http://www.e-lab.de/programmer/isp_en.html

From the description it seems to have all features that I require.

Best regards,
HJ

I specified this programmer for production programming of populated pcbs prior to test in both the UK & China. The boards have no wiring at this stage therefore powering them in this state is tricky. The E-LAB ISP/USB allows powering & programming via either jtag or ISP (Ie. a single header).

It's very easy to use for production level staff but does require a test technician to setup new firmware or fuse settings.

Nigel

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heinrichs.hj wrote:

The problem is, that programming will not only be done in the lab but also by support people at different sites of my company (Germany, Taiwan, ...). That's why the programming sequence is supposed to be as simple as possible.

Then only a bootloader can be the solution:

- a bootloader need no special programmer, only a simple cable PC-UART - AVR.

- a bootloader can not alter the fuses accidentally to put the AVR in a dead state (e.g. clock, reset disabled).

- a bootloader prevent feeding out the unprotected and noise sensitive ISP and reset wires of the AVR.

- a bootloader can prevent reading out the AVR.

Peter