PICs are Useful

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#1
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I am attending school for electrical engineering and we learned about PIC microcontrollers and did a few labs on them. I later turned what I did in all those labs into something you really couldn’t do to an AVR chip. I found that this project reflects my new found love for PIC microcontrollers. Check it out.

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I know a lot of people who *like* being accumulator bound. No harm in that; having just one accumulator gives a sense of security; you always know where it is. And some people like burned coffee from Seattle. Matter of taste, as always. 8)

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You're right. I would never be able to do that project with an AVR :lol:

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Where you putting up a smoke screen? (see world war 2 navy films).
ps have found more than one task where a pic will fit in better than an AVR due to the gaps in spec of the lower priced (AVR) units.

Keep it simple it will not bite as hard

Last Edited: Thu. Feb 3, 2005 - 10:22 AM
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Good work !!

they are getting better everyday indeed!

MY MICROCONTROLLER CAN BEAT THE HELL OUT OF YOUR MICROCONTROLLER /ATMEL

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What is the point of having an "us and them" mentality with Microchip PICs?

It is a sad day when people who promote the inventiveness and innovation of the AVR decide to put down anything that comes from another vendor without being analytical and saying why it is they dislike another product.

If you want "us and them" and mindless conformity, please move to China. I'm not sure whether the "Great Firewall of China" condiders AVRfreaks subversive or not.

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Just to let you know whereI'’m coming from.

For me personally, it’s not an "us vs. them" mentality. It’s more of a "that's crap" mentality.

In our class we learned the 8051 architecture first and later we started on the PIC architecture. That wasn’t so bad even though a lot of PIC things, when compared to the 8051, don’t any make sense. The problem was when we went to do practical labs with them. Needless to say it took about a week before anyone had a binary up counter working on one and the rest of the labs and tests were filled with moments that you swear there was a circuit ferry messing with your stuff.

I’d probably rather be fired than have to deal with the PIC's emotional issues.

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If PIC's had not come along then I suspect a lot of the smaller micro devices we all know today would not exist! It was because the big boys where getting a lot of 'we can do it cheaper with a PIC', they sat up and took notice, rather than sneared.

I have found over the years that a good read of the manual does go some way to stoping wasting a week on a simple task.

Keep it simple it will not bite as hard

Last Edited: Fri. Feb 4, 2005 - 08:03 AM
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Quote:
In our class we learned the 8051 architecture first and later we started on the PIC architecture.

That says it all.
A lot of people find that they have some loyalty to the first processor or architecture they encounter. If you had encountered PICs first, then who knows, you might have preferred them.
If PICs were that bad, then why on earth would anybody use them? It's not as if there is a huge price advantage.

Four legs good, two legs bad, three legs stable.

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The PIC had it's place but Microchip has had almost 10 years to catch up to Atmel and hasn't even budged.

Only recently did they migrate their semiconductor process to a CMP based < .60um process.

They have almost no security in them what-so-ever and are 4x slower than an AVR at equal clock rate.

Back in 1993 - 1995 the PIC was awesome because it was faster than most micro's out there. Then in 1996 came the AVR. The pic was so slow compared ito it.

Regards

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wilbertone wrote:
I am attending school for electrical engineering and we learned about PIC microcontrollers and did a few labs on them. I later turned what I did in all those labs into something you really couldn’t do to an AVR chip. I found that this project reflects my new found love for PIC microcontrollers. Check it out.

Did any of the responders actually click the "Check it out" link? :roll:

I claim that you can do what wilbertone did just as well with any AVR that comes in a DIP package, if you have a hammer and some white paint and too much time on your hands :twisted:

Good Grief,
Smiley

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Maybe the moderators could move this thread to the off topic forum

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Dammm...

Does that mean that you can now build your own PIC ...
Then they have made a nice MCU ....
Just add some extra A/D pins and a couple of OCR pins when you need them ... :-)

/Bingo

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oooooww what a lovely PICture :lol:

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smileymicros wrote:

I claim that you can do what wilbertone did just as well with any AVR that comes in a DIP package, if you have a hammer and some white paint and too much time on your hands :twisted:

Good Grief,
Smiley

SMOKEY!! No true AVR user could possibly saythat! SHAME ON YOU!!

The only place that PICs are gainign momentum is in the new ultra-budget "PICaxe" chips. I read my Electronics Australia magazine each month and just laugh at the "advanced" projects they come up with with the PICaxe chips. An ATTiny could beat the hell out of it.

PICs are crap, AVR's are the best. There's nothing more to it. If nothign else, ATMEL rates as the best when it comes to design, support, etc. in my book.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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abcminiuser - have you ever used PICAXEs? they are surprisingly effective for their target market (schools).

You don't need a programmer, you don't need to buy any software for your PC (it is free to download)

You can start with a PICAXE a few wires and three resistors and go for it.

They will never appear in a production item but that was never the point of them. They are a very cheap intro to microcontrollers, they have a good community that doens't attempt to presecute other brand's userss and they make playing around with electronics fun by making it easy.

What are suggesting? That we make an AVR animatronic Stalin? and go purge (kill) all the users of other microcontrollers because their free choice threatens our insecurities?

Cmon guys, give the "us and them" mentality a break, this isn't North Korea

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Hmmm, AT90S8535, AU$7 - PICAXE ~AU$4.

Features: AT90S8535; a LOT. PicAxe; very little.

Programming method: AT90S8535; 5-wire three resistor. PicAxe; 3-wire 3 resistor.

Software: AT90S8535; (free) GCC or BASCOM demo (suitable for small school projects). PicAxe; proprietary but free software

Support: AT90S8535; LOTS. PicAxe; LOTS.

Code Space: AT90S8535; LOTS. PicAxe; Little

----------------------

I coudl go on for hours. I don't go around persecuting others for using PICs - it's unnessesary. PICs suck and I feel better knowing that I at least have seen the light. People can choose what they want but the AT90S8535 is a clear winner against the PicAxe.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:
PICs suck and I feel better knowing that I at least have seen the light

Good to see you have an open mind about these things :P

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Absolutly. I feel that anyone can have any micro so long as it's an AVR. Like that movie; "You can have any car colour - so long as it's black". :)

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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I know you're only 16 or something but I really think you should google for the history of the Ford motor company before you attribute that quote to "some movie", it wasn't coined by some script writer in Hollywood and most people do know where it came from.

And fine, you go and tell every PIC user he (or she) is using the world's worst microcontroller and see how many new things they share with you :)

Who knows, there might be one or two features that the PIC 18 series has over the AVR, would you want them not to adopted just becuase they came from Microchip?

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Hmmm, seems in getting infamous on these forums; everyone knows me and my age. On the 14th, i'll be 16 - NO jokes about Valentine's day, please - but I can never remember where quotes come from. My head is so full of C, electronics and computer knowege, plus misc. quotes from MANY movies, books, magazines, simpsons, futurama, family guy...you name it. At any rate PICs may implement new features but ATMEL does it better.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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abcminiuser wrote:
Hmmm, seems in getting infamous on these forums; everyone knows me and my age. On the 14th, i'll be 16 - NO jokes about Valentine's day, please - but I can never remember where quotes come from. My head is so full of C, electronics and computer knowege, plus misc. quotes from MANY movies, books, magazines, simpsons, futurama, family guy...you name it. At any rate PICs may implement new features but ATMEL does it better.

In *YOUR* opinion, Something you possibly don't realise is that Your opinion != Fact all the time !

Sorry if that seems a little hard but I think it's the crux of this matter.

About a year ago when I was first looking into getting back into electronics I looked at the PIC and decided I didn't really like it, mainly down to PIC assembly, is seemed kind of clumsy, also having programed motorola processors before (6809 and 680x0), AVR assembler seemed closer to what I already knew. This doesn't mean that PICs are usefull for nothing, it depends on the user's experience.

Also in a way PICs have brought me to AVRs in that the thing that got me interested in electronics again was building the Enigma E, which is an electronic replica of the German WW2 coding machine, and at it's heard uses a PIC !

Phill.

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And so flames begin to rise and all becaused the OP was posting a cute joke that most subsequent posters failed to get. Somethmes joking can be dangerous.

prime wrote:

In *YOUR* opinion, Something you possibly don't realise is that Your opinion != Fact all the time !

I once had an opinionated girlfriend and one day in exasperation I said, " Well thats *YOUR* opinion." and she fired back, "Well, it came out of my mouth didn't it!"

Because of this I hesitate to use the 'IMHO' in my posts because it should be obvious that anything I say is IMHO. Maybe absent the 'H' part. I think we should all realize that anything we read here is just somebodys opinion. Even if they are claiming it to be fact. Don't get bent because someone is relaxed enough with himself, the world, and this forum in particular to express himself. I'm learning tons from these opinions, almost as much from the wrong ones as the right ones.

Smiley

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Quote:

Because of this I hesitate to use the 'IMHO' in my posts because it should be obvious that anything I say is IMHO. Maybe absent the 'H' part. I think we should all realize that anything we read here is just somebodys opinion. Even if they are claiming it to be fact.

I'll sometimes toss-in the IMO when a post is mostly factual, to distiguish the opinion part(s).

I skip the IMHO, since noone would believe the H part anyway.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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smileymicros wrote:
And so flames begin to rise and all becaused the OP was posting a cute joke that most subsequent posters failed to get. Somethmes joking can be dangerous.

No No, I did GET the initial post, actually found it amusing :)

Quote:

prime wrote:

In *YOUR* opinion, Something you possibly don't realise is that Your opinion != Fact all the time !

I once had an opinionated girlfriend and one day in exasperation I said, " Well thats *YOUR* opinion." and she fired back, "Well, it came out of my mouth didn't it!"

:)

Quote:

Because of this I hesitate to use the 'IMHO' in my posts because it should be obvious that anything I say is IMHO. Maybe absent the 'H' part. I think we should all realize that anything we read here is just somebodys opinion. Even if they are claiming it to be fact. Don't get bent because someone is relaxed enough with himself, the world, and this forum in particular to express himself. I'm learning tons from these opinions, almost as much from the wrong ones as the right ones.

I'm not if anyting I was attempting to cool things, probably not very well :) It did seem to me like the OP was sort of represnting their opinion as if it where fact,
perhaps I was right perhaps I was wrong, I meant no offense by it either way. And they are of course perfectly entitled to their opinion, we all are.

Like I said I looked at PICs and AVRs and had a rational reason for choseing AVR, that does not mean that in the future however I would not use another microcontroler, I'm sure they all have their merits.

All IMHO of course :) :) :)

Phill.

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prime wrote:
smileymicros wrote:
And so flames begin to rise and all becaused the OP was posting a cute joke that most subsequent posters failed to get. Somethmes joking can be dangerous.

No No, I did GET the initial post, actually found it amusing :)

Oh good, I was thinking that many were taking it a little too seriously.

FYI, the image isn't even a PIC, I needed to keep it to finish another lab at the time. It was actually a dead Atmel 8051 chip (the bare-bones version).

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smileymicros wrote:
And so flames begin to rise and all becaused the OP was posting a cute joke that most subsequent posters failed to get. Somethmes joking can be dangerous.

Smiley

1) Yes joking can be dangerous

2) What do you think the "man on the street" thinks the OP was trying to achieve with a thread labelled "PICs are useful" then displays an image of a smashed IC? I think that is a direct attempt to invite flaming.

I don't care whether people think AVR or PIC or ARM or HC11 or 8051 etc are better, I just think closing one's mind to what is going on in other areas of microcontrollers is unhelpful to microcontrollers in general. I just get annoyed at the plain and obvious biggotry. For what purpose??? So you can go to bed at night knowing you are so superior to PIC users?

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Dingo_aus wrote:
[So you can go to bed at night knowing you are so superior to PIC users?

Me? I sleep like a baby. And I don't know if I'm going off on a philosophical tangent here or just another rant, but tribalism is inate in humans. It's why we ally ourselves with some dumb sports team that just happens to be in our town even though none of the atheletes came from it. Maybe a little microcontroller tribalism isn't all that bad. I mean it's not like we are blowing up bus loads of school children for using PICs. Professionally it would be suicide to get tribal. I'd use a PIC if it fit. I'm working with, gasp... Freescale chips right now because a client uses them, (although I think it is noteworthy that Motorola was so ashamed of their micros that they changed the name). Anywho, things like the 'My microcontroller can beat the hell out of your microcontroller' bumper sticker and a picture of a smashed PIC helps build a team spirit that leads to things like the best damn user group for any microcontroller: AVRFreaks.

Go Team, Gimme an A...
Smiley

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I fear what you say about tribalism is true but that doesn't mean we have to succumb. You say we aren't bombing people because of it but it adds up.

It seems the more an individual is educated and the more knowledge they possess, the less likely they are to be tribal. I would like to think the group of people called "avr users" are knowledgable enough to not be part of counter-productive tribalisms.

As for following a sporting team, there are a huge number of people who do follow fanatically their particular sport team. Doesn't make it right or a good thing to do, unless you just want to be another follower (in more was than one :) ).

There are lots of people out there who leave that to the great unwashed masses and prefer to do something more productive with their time, like develop code for the AVR :)

Lets not be sheep but wolves :)

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Whoops, I didn't mean to spark such a flame war. I forgot IMHO, but like you guys said, everythign I say - or anyone says - is opinion. And I DID get the joke...

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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I understand that this thread started out as humor, I understand that responses were made jokingly, but its moving towards bigotry quickly.

The phrase “irrational exuberance” comes to mind.

Nothing useful accomplished.

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Dingo_aus wrote:
2) What do you think the "man on the street" thinks the OP was trying to achieve with a thread labelled "PICs are useful" then displays an image of a smashed IC? I think that is a direct attempt to invite flaming.

You missed the "Irony and Sarcasm” part contained in the body of the message.

I’m truly sorry this thread turned out the way it did. Some understood the nature of the joke, others did not. If I had the power to delete this thread, I would. I was hoping this thread would be dead by now. It was only posted to give a brief chuckle.

One observation that should be made is that I posted no reasoning or deduction to support the “bad PIC” theory. If any truly thought I was PIC bashing than they should be at least secure enough to dismiss it as unproven and superfluous -which it is.

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Just to set the record straight for purely scientific purposes..

I got started off on the PIC architecture. It was my very first micro, and I used to love it to bits. I was always a bit annoyed by the single accumulator, but I was too ignorant to know that there was a world where you could have more than a single W register... :oops: Then I got introduced to the AVR, and my life changed forever. :D I will now only touch a pic if it is REALLY the cheapest and best for a very particular mass-produced application, and if I am faced with death by starvation if I refuse.

Otherwise I do not get much closer to a PIC than what I am able to reach at with a large impact tool (read hammer). :twisted:

regards
Carel

www.pteq.net
Home of:
- Polygon Technologies CC

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It's not bigotry. We all genuinly believe AVRs to be better, otherwise we would be in the PIC camp. Everyone has a choice and a freedome to make that choice, but since we've made out choice we can at least feel free to bash the opposition to increase our egos and reinforce our choice. I agree that PIC has some strong points, but ATMEL does it better overall, if only for their customer support. Incidentally, I just sent ATMEL a long letter congratulating them for having such a great company, support and products. Remember that almost everythign I say is meant to be in good humour - think of my statements in this light unless I specifically state otherwise.

AVR's RULE!!

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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squiggy wrote:

Nothing useful accomplished.

Too right, I'm not going to post any further on this thread, certain ppl don't seem to get that i'm not saying one is better or not, just that we shouldn't be looking at it like in a "us and them" way.

If I didn't think AVRs are currently the best I wouldn't use them, I do, so I do.

Oh well, I'll just wait until abcminiuser starts shouting, "1000 year reich of AVR superiority!" or maybe starts calling for a "people's cultural AVR revolution to wash aside the evil PIC users and establish a people's republic of AVRs"

:) :) :)

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Actually, we do not want to wash aside the evil pic users, but we want to LIBERATE them, albeit by forcing them to use proper micros..

GET WITH THE SYSTEM. Start using AVRs or you will be assimilated...
If you keep on using PICs, and you see a flight of silent back helicopters approaching, do NOT say you have not been warned!

www.pteq.net
Home of:
- Polygon Technologies CC

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Quote:
Go Team, Gimme an A...

P?

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abcminiuser wrote:

An ATTiny could beat the hell out of it.

PICs are crap, AVR's are the best. There's nothing more to it. If nothign else,
- Dean :twisted:

Advocatus Diaboli:
Look at this tool, a Pic and verry few external components, rest is software:
http://members.cox.net/berniekm/...

I built it, because it could be handy in many AVR projects.
Btw. the DSPPic look also interesting,...

The reason I stick to AVR is, because there are no good C compilers available for PICs under 1000$ and because now I got used to AVR and won't switch anymore.
But the superprobe really impressed me though.

Cheers
Rubi

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Dingo_aus wrote:
Lets not be sheep but wolves :)

Wolves travel in packs that are as close to human tribes as exist in nature.

Do Dingo's travel in packs?

Smiley

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Do you all think i'm too vocal on the subject? I agree with most of you, PIC users should be assimilated. 1000 year reich of AVR superiority!

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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I really like the 10Fxxx series from microchip. As soon as i'll get my hands on one them you can be sure i'll put it to good use.

Open the pod bay doors, HAL.

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abcminiuser wrote:
Do you all think i'm too vocal on the subject?

Vocal? How could we possibly know? Do you yell a lot while typing? I bet you do. :wink:

Smiley

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I don't know about the 10Fxxx series. They seem a bit too small to fit under a hammer.
I will also bet it is too small to contain a lot of smoke. Will have to wait and see about the smoke.

Seriously, I have to admit, the 10Fxxx series (in a 6pin SOT23) have the potential to fit applications where no other micro can presently go. That will at least give it some market segment.

www.pteq.net
Home of:
- Polygon Technologies CC

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Quote:
Seriously, I have to admit, the 10Fxxx series (in a 6pin SOT23) have the potential to fit applications where no other micro can presently go.

That is how the Peripheral Interface Controller started out and why it became widely used.

Keep it simple it will not bite as hard