PCB at home (freaking me out)

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Hello every one

I am really frustrated with this PCB thing
I've done it over 20 times and still no answer
I changed my iron with a laminator here is my steps:
1. Print the pcb into a light glossy paper
2. attach it to a copper fiber board
3. roll it in the laminator over 5 times!!
4. sink it in water
5. wait for 10 minutes
6.gently remove the glossy paper

in the end it's not complete some parts are attached to copper some are not
the laminator is okay it spreads the heat equally and constantly
what's wrong then ?
maybe it's the paper
it's driving me crazy
any ideas?

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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Lightly buff the pcb with 0000 steel wool and then clean with acetone. Do not touch the surface with your hands. Then laminate.

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Also, different toners have different transferability. You may just have a brand of printer that isn't going to work.

I don't know that "light glossy" is sufficiently exact, either. If you're not going to to use expensive transfer paper specifically designed for the task, you may need to experiment. I had reasonable luck with the semi-glossy paper used to print trade magazines - just find a blank section large enough for your PCB, and do the "tape it over the image on a full page" thing.

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It's an art...

Important is the temperature, too hot and it will smudge, a bit less than this is perfect.

And I always found the best release required rapid cooling, don't wait after the heating, right into cold water is best.

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I still fail to understand why people persist with the iron on trade paper method. IMO, the photo sensitive/exposure method delivers consistently excellent results with no extra effort.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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the photosensitive method is much more expensive, though, with less selection of board type. Using toner transfer, I can get a variety of thicknesses and colors of PCB material via surplus or eBay for about $0.05/in^2, vs about 6 times that price for less variety in photosensitive.
(the local surplus place USED to have a huge crate of PCB scraps that they sold for $0.01/in^2 of copper ($.02/in^2 for double-sided) But that place has been out of business for a long time. Sniff.)

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Quote:
different toners have different transferability. You may just have a brand of printer that isn't going to work.

I am using HP Laser Jet P1102 and I chose dpi600 at the setting
Quote:
don't know that "light glossy" is sufficiently exact, either. If you're not going to to use expensive transfer paper specifically designed for the task, you may need to experiment.

what is the transfer paper specifically designed for the task? would you please give me the name of the product

Quote:
I had reasonable luck with the semi-glossy paper used to print trade magazines - just find a blank section large enough for your PCB, and do the "tape it over the image on a full page" thing.

i will be trying them too

i used the light glossy paper and also the yellowish glossy paper that sticky papers are attached to it

Quote:
Important is the temperature, too hot and it will smudge, a bit less than this is perfect.

I am using a Laminator which the temperature I'm working with is 180º C
the maximum temperature of the device if 200ºC and the minimum is 100ºC
how many times should I roll it into the Laminator?
here is a video that this dude is doing the job what is the paper he is using?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsPBzU9OWIM

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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Hi Galaxyboy,

i am also in the middle of producing proto pcbs at home with more or less (well, rather less) success, but maybe you can use the following tips:
- Try using label backing instead of glossy papers. It has a waxy surface, after ironing you can peel it off easily without soaking. (As my printer cannot handle such thin papers i have to partially remove the sticking labels from the original A4 or A5 size sheet forming a smaller window where the transfer shall be printed on.)
- I use sand paper grit size 1200 to dry polish/scratch(?) the copper, then clear the surface with medical benzine (you should try isopropyl alcohol instead).
- Roll the pcb through the laminator more than 5 times. Each time change the side of the laminator (to keep a more steady temperature of the rollers) and vary the insertion angle as well.

BR,
Menahem

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westfw wrote:
the photosensitive method is much more expensive, though, with less selection of board type. Using toner transfer, I can get a variety of thicknesses and colors of PCB material via surplus or eBay for about $0.05/in^2, vs about 6 times that price for less variety in photosensitive.
I guess my time is worth more than any perceived expense in going with a consistently reliable method. Would you use a car that sometimes needs to be taken home and restarted from scratch? (maybe not a good analogy, but I will let you build the justification). I am not convinced.

Cheers,

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Quote:
I can get a variety of [...] colors of PCB material

What is the significance of the colour? Or is it merely vanity?

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Quote:
ry using label backing instead of glossy papers.

I used that too and still lots of parts are missing
Quote:
Roll the pcb through the laminator more than 5 times.
5 minutes !! Okay I'll give it a try thank you for your help

does anyone know which paper is this dude using?
he just laminated the pcb once and HE did not even sink the pcb in the water after he dealt with laminating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsPBzU9OWIM
by the way i found the pcb paper but as usual "NOT AVAILABLE IN OUR MARKETS " :shock: I was wodering how is that possible that our country is still running so far

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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Quote:
Roll the pcb through the laminator more than 5 times.

And you replied with:
Quote:
5 minutes !! Okay I'll give it a try thank you for your help

You mixed up TIMES and MINUTES :)

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Quote:
You mixed up TIMES and MINUTES Smile

:lol:
yeah you're right the thing is just driving me crazy
i've been doing it over and over again and still no good result i used the back of the sticky papers (the yellow greasy light paper)
and also another light glossy paper
i just want to know what is this guy using
look this is Amazing he just laminates the pcb once and does not even drop it into a water pot or anything like that
he just takes the paper off and DONE !!

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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I use the following:
http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/products/transfer_paper.html

Quote:
1. I drill the blank PCB on my table-top mill.

2. I remove the drilled PCB and clean it with Scotchbrite.

3. I print my PCB pattern out on an HP1200 laser printer.

4. I register the holes in the artwork to the holes in the drilled PCB and tape the paper in place at each corner with a small piece of Avery folder label - Avery labels will withstand the temperatures of the laminator.

5. I then run the artwork/PCB combination thru the laminator twice - NO MORE - becaue additional passes thru the laminator distorts the toner on the PCB.

6. I let the artwork/PCB assembly fully cool.
Once cool, I place the artwork/PCB in a tray of water that is at room temperature until the paper fully separates from the PCB on it's own.

7. I then run the PCB under hot water to heat the PCB so that excess water will evaporate faster.

8. Then I etch the PCB.

Many people here have seen the printed circuit boards I make. Making PCBs at home is as much an art as it is a skill and it only come with practice and experience. You too, can eventually make perfect homebrew PCBs. With care, practice and patience, they will come out perfect, every single time.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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I suppose if you have the time doing your own is fun and you can save a few bux. But after just getting back my first PCB order from ElectroFreaks I can honestly say I would never bother with homebrew PCBs again. $65 for 10 perfect 2-sided boards. Email them the Gerbers and you're done. Aside from the 2 uSec of guilt I felt for redirecting more jobs out of the US it was all good...

Chris B.

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microguy wrote:
I suppose if you have the time doing your own is fun and you can save a few bux.

For me, it's not about saving money, it's about perfecting the skill and maybe advancing the art at the hobby level. That, and in the time you are waiting around for a new revised PCB, sporting your most recent artwork updates to be delivered, I've already made, assembled and tested my latest revision.

What value would a skilled knife craftsman have, sending off for a pre-made knife? The same goes for say, a fisherman skilled in crafting his own lures.

I can't fathom a skilled craftsman outsourcing the very skill he/she spent years perfecting.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
What is the significance of the colour? Or is it merely vanity?

Oh, probably just "coolness factor." You laugh, but elsewhere I've seen people ask "does anyone know where to get that old dark brown phenolic/paper PCB material? I need it for the restoration of my ancient equipment."

Quote:
I guess my time is worth more than any perceived expense in going with a consistently reliable method.

Well, the "learning curve" for photosensitive is expensive too. It's one thing to pay more for consistent results, and another to be paying $10 for each of your initial mistakes. YMMV if you have readily available APPLY-ABLE photomasking; here in the US there seems to be exactly one supplier of sensitized PCB material, with rather limited selection. Nowadays, I'd just ship out most boards to Seeed or OSHPark. Or run the boards off on my LPKF if they're simple enough.

----

So is the board you're starting with "conservative"? I've heard of experienced people doing relatively fine-pitch boards with toner transfer, but that's not the way to start out. You can see some of my advice on the subject (and a REALLY UGLY TT PCB) here: http://www.instructables.com/id/...

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westfw wrote:
Quote:
I guess my time is worth more than any perceived expense in going with a consistently reliable method.

Well, the "learning curve" for photosensitive is expensive too. It's one thing to pay more for consistent results, and another to be paying $10 for each of your initial mistakes. YMMV if you have readily available APPLY-ABLE photomasking; here in the US there seems to be exactly one supplier of sensitized PCB material, with rather limited selection. Nowadays, I'd just ship out most boards to Seeed or OSHPark. Or run the boards off on my LPKF if they're simple enough.
And just for the record, it sounds like you get ripped off in the US. Last order, I paid A$3.50 for a sheet of 4.5" x 6.5" pre-sensitised stock. And A$0.60 for the artwork printed on overhead transparency stock at my local copy centre. I can have an etched and drilled board finished in under 90 minutes including the visit to the copy centre with my artwork as a pdf file. I ALWAYS produce a prototype assembly before starting the coding. And I can supply a photo to my clients as evidence of progress within a couple of days of contract award. No pcb production mistakes... except of my own doing/design. I have considered a CNC machine alternative, but on balance, they offer me nothing beneficial. Just another thing to maintain. Production quantity pcbs are outsourced of course.

Cheers,

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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This guy, of recent mention, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J... uses cheap shelf paper -- he says is thin, shiny, good transfer.

David

Dr. David Harris OpenLCB Development Team openlcb.org

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valusoft wrote:
And just for the record, it sounds like you get ripped off in the US. Last order, I paid A$3.50 for a sheet of 4.5" x 6.5" pre-sensitised stock.

And A$0.60 for the artwork printed on overhead transparency stock at my local copy centre. I can have an etched and drilled board finished in under 90 minutes including the visit to the copy centre with my artwork as a pdf file. I ALWAYS produce a prototype assembly before starting the coding.

Hi Ross,

The last time I produced a PCB by way of photo-resist was about the time Kepro went under and transferred all of their stock to some other company. You could still get photo-sensitive boards from the new handler but the cost was significantly more.

That was also the last time I had an artwork transferred from paper to film, as well. None of the local copy centers process hard film anymore. I had to go to a high-end photography shop to get my artwork transferred from paper to film and it cost me $15.00US.

valusoft wrote:
And I can supply a photo to my clients as evidence of progress within a couple of days of contract award.
But I can provide a printed copy of the artwork at any time, just like I supply a printed copy of the schematics for proof of concept.

valusoft wrote:
I have considered a CNC machine alternative, but on balance, they offer me nothing beneficial. Just another thing to maintain. Production quantity pcbs are outsourced of course.

Cheers,

Ross

But a table-top mill can be used for making small parts, small face plates, custom box/cabinet cut-outs, etc. Don't sell yourself short, thinking that the table-top mill can only be used for drilling holes, mechanical etching and routing out PCB blanks.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
it sounds like you get ripped off in the US. Last order, I paid A$3.50 for a sheet of 4.5" x 6.5" pre-sensitised stock.

Yep. $9+ from Mouser:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDet...

I've heard you can still get the brush or spray-on coatings as well, outside of the US. Sigh.

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I was thinking about directly printing on the copper like opening the the printer and make it print on the copper there were some Youtube videos doing this
and one more thing my laminator makes some loud noises whenever the pcb goes through it ..!!! anyone knows why?
what about making a CNC that does the curving of the pcb ? is there any tutorial ?

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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Thought I'd toss my .02 cents into the discussion.

I've been doing toner transfer PCBs for a very long time. Here is a link to a paper I did years ago trying to document the process.

http://users.rcn.com/carlott/toner_transfer_exp.pdf

I do like the cheapness, flexibility, and speed.
I've got a large assorted pile of scrap PCB laminate pieces, all different thicknesses, materials, 1/2oz, 1oz, 2oz cu, and a rainbow of color. The color does not matter as much as the board thickness and the copper weight. But there are times when color does make an aesthetic difference.

I just clean the copper with 000 steel wool, nothing else. I never have any trouble getting the toner to stick to the copper. And I get perfectly acceptable results, but I'm always looking for ways to improve the process.

The three important things (IMHO) are:

1 printer (even some toner based printers simply will not work well, the fusing temperature for the toner is too high)
2 paper (paper is very important)
3 laminator (I never had any success with a clothes iron)

There are some variables to deal with (even humidity can come into play), and some interactions between the materials and hardware. It makes it very difficult to state that one particular type of printer/paper/laminator is the 'best'.

It may only be best when used in combination with another particular piece of the process.

Because of all those variables, I really don't want to give specific advice or recommendations. Feel free to ask specific questions.

BUT, here is the thing. You have some additional options these days for getting your prototype PCBs done for you that I never had in the past.

These places will professionally make your boards cheap and reasonably fast. Just send in your gerber files.

OSHPARK (For smaller pcbs with limited options within the USA, you really can not beat this service!)
SEEDSTUDIO
ITEAD Studio

And others. Your geographic location may determine if any of these will work for you.

These are terrific services (each with their own particular pros and cons).

Much less frustrating, and I think very cost effective. Depending on how you value your time and what your aggravation quotient is.
Plus you have the added bonus of not having to deal with the etching chemicals and their possibly problematic disposal requirements.

So, while I still make my own PCBs with toner transfer all the time, I also send a pcb order into OSHPARK every couple of weeks. And I order from SEEDSTUDIO every couple of months.

If I need a single sided PCB in the next couple of hours, I make it myself. Almost everything else I send out.

Now, I did learn a lot about PCB fabrication by making all those boards myself over the years.
Experience comes from making mistakes, it's a little less painful to throw a cheap home-brew pcb into the garbage and just re-make it when you've mirrored the artwork (doh).

-carl

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Hi Carl,

microcarl wrote:
The last time I produced a PCB by way of photo-resist was about the time Kepro went under and transferred all of their stock to some other company. You could still get photo-sensitive boards from the new handler but the cost was significantly more.

Kinsten is the brand I use.

microcarl wrote:
That was also the last time I had an artwork transferred from paper to film, as well.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I print the artwork from Eagle directly to a pdf file and the copy centre prints the pdf onto the clear plastic overhead transparency sheet. No photographic work needed. And... I don't have to maintain a perfect quality laser printer. My Lexmark T522 is great for documents but not up to the quality needed for my pcb tracks. The copy centre has great laser printers, especially for A$0.60 a sheet.

valusoft wrote:
And I can supply a photo to my clients as evidence of progress within a couple of days of contract award.
microcarl wrote:
But I can provide a printed copy of the artwork at any time, just like I supply a printed copy of the schematics for proof of concept.
I meant a photo of the assembled prototype pcb.

valusoft wrote:
I have considered a CNC machine alternative, but on balance, they offer me nothing beneficial. Just another thing to maintain. Production quantity pcbs are outsourced of course.

microcarl wrote:
But a table-top mill can be used for making small parts, small face plates, custom box/cabinet cut-outs, etc. Don't sell yourself short, thinking that the table-top mill can only be used for drilling holes, mechanical etching and routing out PCB blanks.
Yes I understand those "benefits" also, but haven't justified it yet. :lol: I think my 200MHz DSO is better value if I had to choose.

On balance I have made the correct decisions for my situation. I respect those of others who want to take a different approach. :lol:

Cheers,

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Wow. Used to do photoresist in the mid '70s. Clean the board, spray the purple stuff. Expose the orange negative. Wipe it with some horrible toxic chemical using a cotton ball and bare fingers. Lay the negative on the board, expose with probably dangerous UV light. I think then we used water to wash the unexposed purple spray away. Then etch and scrub with comet.

What kind of toner do you have? HP or off-market? Perhaps try the other. I had an awful time when I put a staples cartridge in my Canon printer. Got a Canon cartridge, and the results have been beautiful. I also run through my laminator 12 times, for no particular reason. Sometimes I have to shove 60 thousandths (1.6mm) PC through the laminator. It always is happy with 30 thousandths (0.8mm) F4. 2oz copper is hard to etch without getting voids. 1oz works better for me.

Somebody here put me onto printing the toner onto vinyl. Before that I had always used the blue paper with sticky surface. Also, I clean the board with number 2500 sandpaper 'stead of scotchbrite and get fewer/no voids. I should try the shelf paper before I run out of vinyl, but I spent like 10 bucks on enough vinyl to last years.

Any more, I only home etch when I don't want to wait for them from a board company. I've been using elecfreaks.com but a friend just told me about a local company that has reasonable prices. Haven't tried them yet.

If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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Well, I apologize if it seemed like I was pressuring my opinion on you. We all came into this thing from our own perspective and availability of supplies.

The fact is, both methods take practice and patience to master.

Over the years, I have perfected my system of making PCBs.

In all of that, whether or not you use the photo sensitive or the toner method, there is one aspect that is critical to getting fine traces - etching time.

I have a one gallon Tupperware container that is about 3/4 full of etchant. On the bottom, I have a 3/4" thick piece of UHMW that has two 1/4" holes drilled along the entire length. Along the top, I have .05" holes drilled so that they just intersect the 1/4" holes at about 1" spread from each other. I connect two plastic hoses to the 1/4" holes coming out of the side of the UHMW and they run along the side of the Tupperware container and then TEE into a single hose. That end of the hose connects to the largest fish tank air pump I could find. There is enough air coming out of the UHMW that a 4" by 6" PCB blank will float on the surface of the etchant. I run the etchant at about 130 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes about one to two minutes (depending on if the PCB is 1/2 Oz or 1 Oz) to completely etch a 4" by 6" PCB.

Of course, initial artwork and pattern transfer quality is critical but, With 1 to 2 minute etching time, it is very easy to obtain .006" trace quality. Back when I was in my early twenties, I worked for a PCB manufacturing house and all of their etchers were mist spray type. The above method I described is nearly as good as etching by spray mist.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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You certainly have more experience than I.

I have a glass tray. My ferric chloride got used up last fall, so I've been using cupric chloride. It goes faster when I heat it to about 120F (49C), but I seem to get nicer quality boards if I don't heat it. I only have about 8 oz of cupric chloride but that seems plenty in my little tray.

It's rather amazing to realize, I have quite a lot of copper dissolved in this few ounces of bright green acid.

If you're using FeCL, stick with it. I think I'll go back to FeCL, though CuCL isn't as nasty looking.

If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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FeCL will just stain the hell out of everything it touches. I'm using ammonium persulphate for now. Less mess. You do need to heat it up to get decent etch times.

When I run out of the ammonium persuafe, I'll probably switch over to a CuCL system. Will need to research that a bit more when the time comes.

-carl

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well i finally did it
but it is really an "ART" work it took me about 3 hours to drill all the holes with a DC motor (I did not have a CNC to that for me )
and still I should do the soldering and i don't know if everything is connected correctly
well here is the results i came up with :
1. this process takes time and patience if you don't have these do not even think about it
2. doing PCB at home is good but if you don't have a CNC machine to do the drills for you , you'll be in huge trouble
3. if you have a single boarded and SMD based circuit doing pcb at home is an awesome job otherwise you need to have the right tools that i didn't have
4. this process made me buy a laminator lots of paper, several copper boards , and other stuff
this could be easier for me to ask a company to do me all these stuff
but i learned how to do pcb at home and it does worth all these efforts and time

Finally for my next projects I would rather stay at home doing my more important stuffs while the a company is doing the pcb for me
thank you everyonethis was quite an experience
i could not have done it without you

Attachment(s): 

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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Holes? Oh, heavens, save yourself BUNCHES of headache and go to SMD. Many of my home boards have NO holes. Most have only a few that take only moments. But then, the motion control board with fets and a big motor drive chip have ARRAYS of plated through holes spaced 1mm apart. Of course, I didn't even THINK of home etching that one!

Now that you got it to work once, you'll find it easier.

If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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Quote:
Holes? Oh, heavens, save yourself BUNCHES of headache and go to SMD. Many of my home boards have NO holes. Most have only a few that take only moments. But then, the motion control board with fets and a big motor drive chip have ARRAYS of plated through holes spaced 1mm apart. Of course, I didn't even THINK of home etching that one!

Now that you got it to work once, you'll find it easier.


yeah exactly
after this project i will definitely use SMD
i think soldering the SMD components must be challenging for the start but I'll figure it out

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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why are we doing all these transferring stuff ?
if we could print right on the copper it would be more accurate
i got 2 options for this :
1. Hack the printer and print on the copper board
2. make a sticky copper layers like sticky labels so it can be printed by every printers either laserjet or ink ones and still this is really accurate

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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H. Carl Ott wrote:
FeCL will just stain the hell out of everything it touches. I'm using ammonium persulphate for now. Less mess. You do need to heat it up to get decent etch times.

When I run out of the ammonium persuafe, I'll probably switch over to a CuCL system. Will need to research that a bit more when the time comes.

-carl

I also use ammonium persulphate.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Please share with us how you finally succeeded.

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I do not let the unused copper to be etched. Just put the copper pour around and that way you do not have to stir the solution all the time while etching..

DIY SMD is much easier than THT. Especially with solder paste. And no drilling.

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4. sink it in water
5. wait for 10 minutes
6.gently remove the glossy paper

I use glossy paper and I never sink my PCBs in a water.
Print+iron+etch does the job (sodium persulfate).

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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Please share with us how you finally succeeded.

well I'll go with details here is what i did :
1. I printed the artwork on a semi glossy paper the paper is the same paper that is used for Calligraphy and it is really cheap the printer i used was Hp laserjet p1102 adn the dpi i selected at the setting was 1200

2. I cleared the copper with an electronic contact cleaner - dry lubricant 600

3. I put the printed paper on the copper
4. rolled it into the laminator for about 12 times i rotated the pcb after 3 times of rolling
5. I let the pcb out to cool down (not in water ) as microcarl said
6. i sank the pcb in water and i waited for about 8 minutes then i saw that the paper is getting off the board so i swung it in water and the paper got off
7. i used FeCl and hot water for removing the unwanted copper
8. wash the board
9. clear the board with acetone

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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A laser can't print on a conductive surface like copper. It uses static charges to move the toner around.

My first SMD project was 3 little boards 1 1/4 in square (32mm on a side). I soldered them with plain resin-core solder and my iron: Tin the pads, don't leave a blob of solder, just coat the copper. Use a toothpick to position the part. Hold it down with the toothpick and touch the end and pad with the iron. Then touch the other end the same way. For the ICs, carefully position and solder one corner pin. Check the alignment, and solder opposite corner to hold in place. Now it's pretty easy, especially with some liquid flux, to solder the rest of the pins. If you get a bridge, some solder-wick will clean it away in a moment. When I finished those 3 boards with 20 pin ICs and several 0604 size caps and resistors, I thought, "Wow, that was LOTS easier."

Now I use solder paste and an electric frypan.

Go to youtube and search for SMD soldering. Watch a few videos, then try a technique that looks like it will work for you.

My electric frypan is WAY bigger than need be, but it was on sale for $15 and the smaller, more appropriate size one was $45. After you're done soldering, scramble some eggs and use your soldering iron to stir your coffee (I labeled mine, "NO FOOD! CHEMICAL EXPOSURE," just in case there's ever somebody but me around.)

Now, with my less-than-perfect sucking tool, building a pretty complicated board is a breeze. On simple things, I can go from a basic idea to ready-to-ruin project in about a day. On non simple things, I send it out to etch.

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Hydrogen peroxide 60%
HCl 30%
water 10%

it is good too it removes the copper really fast less than 20seconds
and it doesn't need hot water

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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It seems really that everyone has to find their own solution.
Thanks Galaxy!

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Do you have to hack a printer to get it to print on a PCB? My inkjet printer can print on printable CDs and DVDs.

All you should need is a disc shaped PCB that has a diameter of 120mm with a 15mm hole in the middle. :)

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Quote:
My first SMD project was 3 little boards 1 1/4 in square (32mm on a side). I soldered them with plain resin-core solder and my iron: Tin the pads, don't leave a blob of solder, just coat the copper. Use a toothpick to position the part...


i will definitely try that
u made it to look really interesting to me

Quote:
It seems really that everyone has to find their own solution.
Thanks Galaxy!
yeah i agree
it is just about the combination of things you have
not for example a specific printer or laminator

Do you have to hack a printer to get it to print on a PCB? My inkjet printer can print on printable CDs and DVDs.

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All you should need is a disc shaped PCB that has a diameter of 120mm with a 15mm hole in the middle. Smile

well there are some companies that print on t-shirt or mug or maybe they can print PCB too
how about using drive shafting to create a PCB like CNC
i know there are some CNCs that do this but can we make it at home ?

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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i know there are some CNCs that do this but can we make it at home ?

Google "DIY CNC", "home-built CNC" and similar. You will get lots of hits.

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steve17 wrote:
Do you have to hack a printer to get it to print on a PCB?
Apparently so.
Converting an Inkjet Printer to Print PCBs by pourcirm (Instructables; Oct 15, 2011)

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Quote:
Apparently so.
Converting an Inkjet Printer to Print PCBs by pourcirm (Instructables; Oct 15, 2011)

interesting

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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Peroxide and HCL: 2 parts 3% peroxide to 1 part 30% HCL.

Seemed too aggressive and didn't make good quality boards. The green fluid that remains is CuCL2 in HCL, and is a good etchant. Not as fast as FeCL, but doesn't stain everything brown. HCL won't dissolve copper without the presence of CuCl2, H2O2 (HOOH), or a few other things.

If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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An ink jet printer can pretty easily print on pcb material, as long as the feed path is straight. The trick then is to find ink that doesn't wash away in the etchant.

If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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Google "DIY CNC", "home-built CNC" and similar. You will get lots of hits.

there are some books available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Machine-Technology-Action/dp/1430224894/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

this book is somehow old but i might be good for the start
and
http://www.amazon.com/CNC-Cookbook-Introduction-Operation-Controlled/dp/0982110308/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375361399&sr=1-1&keywords=cnc

some say this good to start with CNC and learn the basics
there are other books too
there are even some cool videos at youtube about PCB-CNCs that can motivate you to make one
it's just gonna make things like home made single layer and even double layer PCB simple with high precision
here is an awesome video that i really liked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO4L3-TevtY

I don't need a Handkerchief; i have no more tear to shed anymore - Solid Snake

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I'd LOVE to have one of those. Maybe more fun than a 3d printer.

If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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A 4d printer would be better. You could have the PCB in your hands a day before you printed it.

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steve17 wrote:
A 4d printer would be better. You could have the PCB in your hands a day before you printed it.

And make sure you are wearing that Aluminum foil hat when holding your "Early Addition " PCB in your hands! :lol:

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