Oscope purchase?

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Hey gang, I'm looking to replace my ol Tek scope with a new digital scope, I have used Rigol's in the past and like how it works, but thought I would ask the Freaks their opinion before making a purchase.

My needs are 4 channel, 50MHz, I'm looking at the Rigol DS1054z, but the Siglent SDS1104x-u is priced about the same, but I've never used a Siglent scope before.

All opinions welcome (ducking for cover)! wink

 

Jim

 

 

FF = PI > S.E.T

 

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I have the Siglant 1104x-e and love it. 

 

The decoding does a great job, plenty of features and am overall very pleased with it.

Happy Trails,

Mike

JaxCoder.com

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ki0bk wrote:
I'm looking at the Rigol DS1054z

 

I almost bought one until life got in the way.  It's my understanding from another Freak, that you can update the firmware on that Rigol, and it becomes a 100Mhz model as Rigol uses the same internals for both scopes, and simply puts the firmware in for the model they want to make.

 

Worth investigating.....

 

JIm

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I've used many of the Rigols and was quite happy with their performance, ease of operation, etc (thought they were not my personally owned scope).  However, I'd try to get 200MHz, 4 chan...the small added cost can be well worth it.

Of course, many of these scopes have their well-known hacks to increase the BW, it's almost a "feature" nowadays.

We also had some low-end OWONS, but the controls seemed sluggish

 

As an aside, a few years back I bought around 30 of these (PM3394B) on a pallet for a song (my wife was none too happy).  I sold them for around $200 bucks a shot.  You can often see them going for $200 on ebay.

Although lacking color, the cool thing is they are both digital and analog mode scopes...in analog mode, you get that super crisp razor sharp waveform...I'll fire one up if I'm doing some low noise analog stuff.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1538332...

 

OWON may be an improved contender these days (I think they were often below Rigol a few model years ago)...Owon also has some 12 bit scopes now...if they had them in 4chan, I might byte

https://www.testequipmentdepot.c...

Be sure to take a look at the OWON options.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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Thanks, I'll take a look.

 

FF = PI > S.E.T

 

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If you end up going with the Rigol DS1054Z, be aware that some functions (advanced triggers, protocol decoders, memory depths, and recorder) may only be available through a limited time trial (a quick search came up with some results that suggest that there was a promotional period during which licenses for the upgrades were being bundled with scopes). The existence of this trial was not made clear when I purchased mine. According to my manual, the trial time is "about 2000 minutes". If you search for "site:www.eevblog.com rigol 1054z trial", you'll find more information about the trial.

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picolibrary-microchip-megaavr: picolibrary HIL for megaAVR microcontrollers

picolibrary-microchip-megaavr0: picolibrary HIL for megaAVR 0-series microcontrollers

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I have Rigol DS1054Z working fine since the day one. 

 

jgmdesign wrote:
that you can update the firmware on that Rigol, and it becomes a 100Mhz

No need to tinker with the firmware, the hack is merely a hack at this point, everyone knows about it, in my opinion it's a marketing tactic. You just have to enter a code in the scope (which you can obtain online from various sources by inputting your scope number) and every feature of the scope becomes unlocked it becomes 100MHz and all time trial restriction will be gone.

 

The official way is you pay for the code but the hack allows you to get it without paying.

 

If Rigol wanted to fix this they could have done it when it was discovered by updating the firmware in the new scopes, but they don't seem to be interested which I think is because it's selling really well maybe because of this hack.

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Last Edited: Mon. Feb 14, 2022 - 09:37 PM
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If Rigol wanted to fix this they could have done it when it was discovered by updating the firmware in the new scopes

Its almost become an "expected bonus" for lots of tech toyz, and now part of the comparison shopping process.  Almost more popular than if they just shipped them enabled in the first place---that would take away all of the competitive fun.

Now there are complaints when a new piece of gear offers nothing to enable or fiddle with.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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ki0bk wrote:
50MHz,
Adequate for AVRe+, inadequate for AVRxt

Recommend an instrument rise-time that's close enough to the signal rise-time (instrument is probe and oscilloscope)

A 50 ohm input impedance is handy for very inexpensive probes (resistor and coax)

ki0bk wrote:
I'm looking at the ...
Consider US manufacturers even if the instruments are manufactured elsewhere.

Reason : US manufacturers have to compete to win stocking of US university undergraduate labs.

 

P.S.

ki0bk wrote:
4 channel
Two channels is enough to verify signal integrity (rise, fall, setup, hold, runt); afterwards, move the signal measurement to a logic analyzer.

Two channels is enough for frequency response analysis (FRA, Bode plot, some scopes have a FRA capability, measure : impedance, stability of an amplifier or power supply, oscillator safety factor)

 

P.P.S.

ki0bk wrote:
my ol Tek scope
Worth hanging onto; difficult to mis-setup an analog scope (mistakes are visibly obvious)

 


SPI | AVR® DB Family

[tSCKR = 2.7 ns] 

Probing High-Speed Digital Designs by Dr. Howard Johnson

[2/3 page]

Bandwidth and Gain

...

Table 1—Formulas for Oscilloscope Rise/Fall Time Versus Format of Bandwidth Specification

...

For best results, plan for a combined overall rise-fall time from your measuring instrument that is 3 times faster than the signal you wish to observe.

...

 

Saelig Introduces T3DSO2000A Series Advanced 500MHz Oscilloscopes – EEJournal

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edit :

Adequate Bandwidth by Dr. Howard Johnson

[3/4 page]

The waveform-reproduction accuracy of the measured result will fall in line with this table:

 

edit2 :

I/O Pins | AVR® DA Family

[bottom]

I/O Slew Rate

[16 ns typical]

16 ns / 3 = 5.3 ns

instrument bandwidth = 0.338 / 5.3 ns

instrument bandwidth = 64 MHz

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Tue. Feb 15, 2022 - 02:02 PM
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I just bought a Rigol 1104Z+ back in December, 100MHz, 4 chan with a built in signal generator. SigGen is slightly disappointing with 10KHz frequency step size but. after all. it is first. a scope. Have not had a good chance to use it and hit it with something that has a good fast rise time. Probes seem OK and reasonably sturdy; again, fast step response has not been tested.

 

The last scopes I used were all analog and it is hard to get used the noisy sampling. But, back then, it would have taken life-savings to get a 100MHz scope and it would have taken a fork lift to get it to the house :) And it would only have had 2 channels :)

 

To the limits that I've used it, the Rigol seems like a pretty good scope. 

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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I've been considering a new scope - perhaps a USB Pico but the prices are silly at the moment. There are a number of USB scopes from the usual suspects but its unclear which will work well with Linux - 'install a virtual machine with Windows' is not a solution... thought it appears that Hantek are well thought of despite their signal issues.

 

I'm not looking for anything exotic - I simply can't justify forking out for a four channel 1GSps etc, but still tossing up between a USB and a physical scope.

 

Hmm.

 

Neil

 

 

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Hei.

buy this last year 

RS PRO RSMDO-2204EX (from RS but I do not know the brand RSpro is just a name on it)

I have not see your budget but this scope has:

2 adjustable power to 5V out 1Amax

2 signal generator

1 multimeter

and 4 channels with logic decodeur. 

for meg with limit working place get very useful tools.

but only 8-bit resolution.

Thierry

Thierry Pottier

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ki0bk wrote:
I have used Rigol's in the past and like how it works

I have a Rigol, and very happy with it for the money.

 

Siglent seem to be in a similar ballpark.

 

Note that some economise by have only 1 set of channel controls - so you need to select channel first, then make adjustments.

I find that very cumbersome & error-prone - I would certainly go for something that has a set of controls per channel.

 

At a show last week, I saw the local Rigol disty had an offer on the MSO5000: 

 

https://telonic.co.uk/product-category/digital-oscilloscopes/rigol-mso5000-series/ - dunno if that's just them, or a global Rigol promotion ?

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Thanks All for the feedback and suggestions.

 

 

FF = PI > S.E.T

 

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barnacle wrote:
USB Pico
TiePie comparable?

barnacle wrote:
... but its unclear which will work well with Linux
sparse

barnacle wrote:
'install a virtual machine with Windows' is not a solution...
fyi, there's USB via an add-on to WSL 2.

barnacle wrote:
I simply can't justify forking out for a four channel 1GSps ...
Patience as the price of very fast ADC are amazingly low.

 


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ki0bk wrote:
Siglent SDS1104x-u
Episode 20 - The Siglent SDS1204X-E - A lot of value for the money - YouTube (8m50s) by Jack Ganssle

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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I am very pleased with the Siglent 1104X-E, with the use of a python script it can easily be upgraded to 200Mhz, see: 'EEV blog forum'

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