No time for a XMega forum, but time to spend on Facebook?

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From the AVR Freaks homepage, Nov 6th, 2009; I know many of the regular contributers here skip the home page:

"And now we're on Facebook too!
Posted by eivind on Friday, November 06, 2009

Avrfreaks Net |

...For no particular reason :)"

It is my understanding that setting up a XMega from took to much time (unlike the time it took to setup the Security Forum). Seems like some misplaced priories here in my personal view as a customer of Atmel...

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??? Setting up a Facebook account takes about 5 minutes. I would think that a new forum would take longer than that (especially when you add in the time to administer it).

Regards,
Steve A.

The Board helps those that help themselves.

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Koshchi wrote:
??? Setting up a Facebook account takes about 5 minutes. I would think that a new forum would take longer than that (especially when you add in the time to administer it).

What is the point of setting up a Facebook account if you are not going to spend time administering it?

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I've been frustrated with the lack of an XMega forum. There ARE quite a few things unique to them and which regular AVR folks should not have to sort through.

Higher speed and resolution ADC
DAC
DMA
Virtual ports
Changes to port control
PLL clock multiplier

Seems to me this is as unique and as important as the crypto stuff!

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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It it for sure not the setup time that prevents an Xmega forum.

It is marketing. Someone at Atmel decided that Xmegas should be marketed like normal AVRs and not be singled out. Maybe they fear it would look like a niche product. Or maybe the marketing budget doesn't allow to pay for an own forum after they managed to *cough* convince *cough* *cough* EDN to name an unavailable MCU product of the year.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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ArnoldB wrote:
It it for sure not the setup time that prevents an Xmega forum.

It is marketing.

Atmel can market the XMega anyway they want. Just make sure it is well supported.
No XMega forums makes it look like they are not interested in supporting the part.

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I agree there should be an XMEGA forum, it is almost every bit as unique as the AVR32. The only similarity it has with the original AVR is the CPU core.

I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

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So why is there no ATtiny forum? If Atmel says that the 8-bit AVR family is: ATtiny, ATmega, ATxmega, then who are we to argue? Oh, yeah for a moment I almost forgot, we are AVRFreaks and we argue about everything including whether we argue about everything or not.

Smiley

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I agree with Smiley. Sorry about that, we can argue later :).

If you want to see a lack of Xmega AVRfreaks support, just look at the Devices page:
https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...
and show me a single instance or mention of any Xmega. Not even a simple, few minutes to add, link to the ATMEL Xmega devices page. If this can't/won't get taken care of, what chance do you think a new forum has?

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As if its not difficult enough to find information pertaining to development with the ATxmegas, we have to wade through heaps of ATtiny and ATmega posts. I'll continue to just search on keyword xmega until the Atmel marketing dept gets a clue. I wish there was something to argue about.

-Raliegh

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smileymicros wrote:
So why is there no ATtiny forum? If Atmel says that the 8-bit AVR family is: ATtiny, ATmega, ATxmega, then who are we to argue? Oh, yeah for a moment I almost forgot, we are AVRFreaks and we argue about everything including whether we argue about everything or not.

Smiley


One forum for AVR32
One form for 8-bit AVRs
-Subform ATTiny
-Subform ATMega
-Subform ATXMega

Not sure where legacy will go, maybe have a general subforum as well. I'd love a separate xmega forum.

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And what is the reason to have a separate GCC compiler forum when at AVR forum 95% of debated code is C, from which 50% is GCC ?
George.

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Anyway no one is stopping anyone from starting a Xmega list on Yahoo like avrchat.

The only thing that worries me about Yahoo group is that spammers seem to join any such group and spam all members, otherwise no problem.

edit and of course I'm for a Xmega forum too.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I get virtually zero spammers on the Yahoo groups I run, even on the LPC2000 group which has over 8,000 members and is very active. The secret is to approve all subscriptions, and have everyone on moderated status until their first post.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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ka7ehk wrote:
I've been frustrated with the lack of an XMega forum. There ARE quite a few things unique to them and which regular AVR folks should not have to sort through.

Higher speed and resolution ADC
DAC
DMA
Virtual ports
Changes to port control
PLL clock multiplier

Seems to me this is as unique and as important as the crypto stuff!

Jim

I agree 100%! I looked into these and will probably start a project with XMEGA in a few months and I can see how exactly these subjects will fit into a separate forum in here (I don't like using the Yahoo! forums, the interface is terrible).

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Quote:
The secret is to approve all subscriptions,
But unless the post can hide the sender's address it's an easy thing for someone to just copy addresses off posts and spam people directly not necessarily via the forum.

Anyway I got my 1st spam on the Qtouch forum's PM this week, isn't it great?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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That can happen with any forum where users have posts emailed to them. They can disable it.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Personally I think Atmel are holding of all fixes to the current site while they get the new one up-and-running, since Eivind mentioned a while back that they had a new guy working on it once again after the suspended the project. Doesn't make sense to hack in features now when there's new design due soon. I'd love to ask him, but I SERIOUSLY doubt he'd respond with anything other than "can't talk about it" either way.

I think the forums would be best split up by family:

    8-Bit AVRs - Legacy AVRs (at90xxx)
    - ATTINY
    - ATMEGA
    - ATXMEGA
    - AVR8 Tutorials
    - Completed User AVR8 Projects

    32-Bit AVRs
    - UC3A
    - UC3B
    - Etc. etc. (not sure of the other sub-families)
    - AVR32 Tutorials
    - Completed User AVR32 Projects

    Software
    - AVR Studio
    - AVR32 Studio
    - AVR-GCC

    Other Atmel Products
    - Crypto Products
    - Dataflash ICs

    Non-AVR
    - General Electronics
    - AVRFreaks.net Site
    - Off Topic

That way things are somewhat seperated by the main component -- what AVR is being used, and we don't have the dilemma we have now where users are unsure of where to post something when it spans multiple catagories. Inside the device subforums the users would use tags to indicate what areas their topic includes, such as "C", "ASM", "Interfacing", "AVR-GCC", etc. which others could filter by.

I've been to many forums where there are a billion subforums, which makes finding relevant posts difficult. This would minimise the number of subforums people need to check out, while still seperating topics by their main factor. The tag system would allow for further filtering of topics.

One thing I'd want to mandate here would be that the set of tags be fixed, with new tags added by a dedicated moderator. That way we eliminate the problem currently seen in the academy IIRC, where everyone has a slightly different tag name for the same idea, like "at90usb" and "AT90USB1287".

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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What about topics of general interest that apply to all 8 bit AVRs? Where do they fit into a world of subdivided forums? For example, ATtiny, ATmega and ATxmega all have "atomic access" in common. Where to I post an "atomic access" question or are there eventually going to be a zillion tags for every little thing, that even the newbie will somehow magically know how to use? Another issue with sub forums: will an ATmega communicating with an ATtiny post become a legitimate cross post into two sub forums (I hope not)?

I think the legacy AVR, ATtiny, ATmega and ATxmega should all remain in the current AVRfreaks forum. If you want to add moderated tags use them as filters, so someone that only wants ATxmega posts can use the tags to exclude all posts the OPs didn't tag as ATxmega. In other words make these proposed subcategories into moderated tags and not sub forms. This keeps all 8 bit AVR posts together in the same forum, solves the "which sub forum" legacy post problem, supports general interest topic postings, allows more experienced users to filter for special sub-categories at their own discretion (less newbie mess).

Why remake the entire forum only to cater to a specialized desire when a simpler feature could be added to the existing forum to fulfill the specialized desire?

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Mike B wrote:
If you want to add moderated tags use them as filters, so someone that only wants ATxmega posts can use the tags to exclude all posts the OPs didn't tag as ATxmega.

Especially If anyone can add tags, and you have a Digi-Key type filter interface where you keep clicking on tags to filter posts on interactively.

-Raliegh

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abcminiuser wrote:
Personally I think Atmel are holding of all fixes to the current site while they get the new one up-and-running,
That doesn't explain the new security forum.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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And what if someone in ATMEL management proclaimed there will be a new security forum! That would explain it.

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This is exactly my point. This is not a technical issue. This is just marketing.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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Has anyone actually ASKED eivind? He's not psychic - don't expect him to read every thread here (such as this one) - he doesn't.

Clearly the Crypto forum here shows there isn't a technical bar to adding a forum but there could well be a marketing bar - after all this entire thing is just a marketing tool for Atmel.

But neither Atmel technical nor Atmel marketing will know there's a desire to have such a forum unless someone asks.

What I could do is turn this into a poll and let the users vote on whether there should be an Xmega forum (especially now that things seem to be taking off with the appearance of more models and the Xplain and easier ways to debug them with Dragon software changes).

If there's a lot of votes, strongly in favour hopefully Atmel would see that it's what the "customers" want.

(it's tempting to ask whether there should be an RF/Zigbee/Bitcloud forum too - but perhaps that's a question for another day?)

EDIT: I have added a poll. If Bob objects I'll delete it.

Last Edited: Sun. Nov 8, 2009 - 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Has anyone actually ASKED eivind?
I remember a discussion where the answer was along the line "Why? Xmegas are 8 bit AVRs".

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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Quote:

I remember a discussion where the answer was along the line "Why? Xmegas are 8 bit AVRs".

eivind or someone from Atmel actually said that previously?

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This is what I could find:

https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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But that was just Eric's opinion at the time - it's hardly definitive. While it's true he is an Atmel employee I don't think he usually talks on behalf of the company.

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Perhaps it's because of the all the negative comments about the Xmega. They'd really stand out if there was a forum devoted to it, whereas they tend to get lost in the noise as things stand.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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js wrote:
Anyway no one is stopping anyone from starting a Xmega list on Yahoo like avrchat.

If someone truly wants to setup a XMega forum someplace else, I'd look into the new forum servers at http://www.TechBites.com.

The problem with setting up a forum elsewhere is that it is a dilution of talent and resources. XMega users already seem to be gathered here. Do you really want to check yet an other Social Network? What are you going to eliminate from your day to allot that portion of time to?

Quote:

Hi Bob – Clive “Max” Maxfield here -- I just wanted to tell you that we've just launched a new website at http://www.TechBites.com - The Science and Technology Collaborative Community.

This new website offers a unique mix of technical content and social networking. It's FREE to join. Members can publish their own technical content; access world-class content; participate in group discussions; and connect with peers and industry experts in a multitude of vertical communities.

Members and Companies can also set up and host their own focused communities.

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I'm starting from the assumption (watch out!) that no one is getting paid to moderate these forums.

And so, I vote against an increase in the load placed on volunteers. Good, bad, right, wrong, marketing, technical, forum software feasibility, all have nothing to do with my opinion. Until _more_ volunteers surface who are ready to spend a year doing the work, I would be against it.

Anders

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It would be a shame if people will start finding more suitable communities for their AVR needs. I think that because this website is 100% AVR related it must take the poll results and act accordingly (after some more votes were casted). If a larger community will start to build up elsewhere it will hurt this website very much and that would br everyone's loss. I don't know where Atmel is standing in all of this but I would like to think they are reading these forums and perhaps involved behind the scenes.

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I think that current forums are enough. We don’t have too many posts on AVRFreaks, so splitting them on separate groups doesn’t make any sense. If somebody must underline that his post is referencing to XMega, he can use [XMega] tag in post header. Most questions don’t reference to any particular AVR family, so after splitting the forum where I should send a post?