Newer ATtiny85 chips no longer working?

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I have been using ATtiny85 chips for years with zero problem. Last week i bought a few more and now these do not bootload or allow me to upload anything. Does anyone know if something changed with the newer version of these chips. ( I have tried several of the new ones all give same results) 

 

I am using Arduino as ISP. I have been using the same setup for years with the older chips. Not until this week has there been an issue.

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Last Edited: Tue. Nov 19, 2019 - 06:52 PM
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djmason9 wrote:
these do not bootload

Do they have a bootloader loaded ?

 

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djmason9 wrote:
do not bootload
djmason9 wrote:
I am using Arduino as ISP.
You seem to be mixing terms. "bootload" means somthing completely different to "ISP". Are you saying you cannot get ISP to work with new chips? Either the wiring is probably wrong or the clocking.

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So all things equal i am able to burn bootloader or sketch to one chip but not the other (w/o changing anything) I attached logs.

 

The older chips i have all work (see photo) the newer ones none work. I am using the exact same setup for both. 

 

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Last Edited: Tue. Nov 19, 2019 - 03:44 PM
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Can you post a picture of your programming setup?

djmason9 wrote:
I have been using ATtiny85 chips for years with zero problem.

sounds like an intermittent (broken) wire, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

 

Jim

 

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Until the signature can be read your are not "in contact" with the chip. As I say this is usually a wiring or a clocking issue so those are the things you need to explore.

 

Diagnostic tools like scopes (esp DSOs, logic analysers and so on may help in detecting which lines are not behaving as expected.

Sometimes where avrdude is being invoked it can help to add a number of -v to the command line to get info about what is/isn't happening but if even the signature cannot be read it basically means "not talking"

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djmason9 wrote:

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.03s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x000000 (retrying)

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.03s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x000000 (retrying)

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.03s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x000000
avrdude: Yikes!  Invalid device signature.
         Double check connections and try again, or use -F to override
         this check.

So it's failing to read the device signature.

 

Where did you buy them? Is it a reputable supplier? Have you contacted them about this?

 

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ki0bk wrote:
post a picture of your programming setup

+1

 

See Tip #1 for instructions ...

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So it's failing to read the device signature.

 

Where did you buy them? Is it a reputable supplier? Have you contacted them about this?

 

 

LOL reputable.. unlikely i got them from aliexpress so who knows how or where these were made..:-)

 

I have used this header for a long time and never had any issues. (see pic)

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djmason9 wrote:
LOL reputable.. unlikely i got them from aliexpress

So it's a chip with an fake Atmel logo then....

 

 

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You didn't follow the instructions for how to post the picture, then.

 

frown

 

So we can all see it in context:

 

 

So you're trying to program a surface-mount chip in a DIP socket?!

 

surprise

 

As Jim suggested, that sounds like a recipe for flaky connections ...

 

 

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Dare one ask what's going on here:

 

 

That pin looks like it's got another 2..3mm to go before it's firmly connected ?!?

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Sorry I thought thats what you wanted Here is another one.

I am tying Surface mount. this header And i get what your suggesting about wiring but I can use this exact setup for the working chips no issues at all. Infact I just did it again successfully flashed 4 chips (the older ones) and the others failed. However i did get a new error

 

avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e9005
avrdude: Expected signature for ATtiny85 is 1E 93 0B
         Double check chip, or use -F to override this check.

 

looks like from what i googled thats a t12?

 

 

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Working chips:  made in 2013

Non-working:  made in 2017

It is now 2019.   I would expect to see datestamps for 2019.

 

I am gobsmacked by your setup.   Would it not be easier to just buy a USBASP (with 3x2 header) ?

like this

 

Have you tried old chips in your clam-shell adapter?

The clam-shell might have dirty contacts.

Your "wiring" from the Uno might have a broken wire.

 

Life is much safer when you can plug a ready-made ribbon onto soldered 3x2 headers.

When the ribbon gets old or worn,  buy a new ribbon.

 

David.

Last Edited: Tue. Nov 19, 2019 - 04:50 PM
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I didn't have completely ready when i took a picture. So yes that pin is hanging. I can assure you it is not when i use it.

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Sorry you're "gobsmaked" but setup works perfectly well I have never had an issue. yes I agree its not pretty. So to answer you yes i have tried this exact setup with the older chips and they work just fine. I went back and tested every chip with this setup (making sure everything is snug and tight) I separated out the errors. And found that one set of chips fails differently. see picture 

 

One set errors with 0x000000 one erros with 0x1e9005

 

PS clam shell is brand new

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Last Edited: Tue. Nov 19, 2019 - 05:15 PM
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djmason9 wrote:
see picture 

Did I not mention Tip #1 - which shows you how to properly post pictures ?

 

 

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sorry i dont use forums much and i just saw add attachments.. I have determined that the issue is a batch of fake chips from china.

Lesson here is order from reputable source. Picture below are both fake chips hard to tell the real from fake.
 

Last Edited: Tue. Nov 19, 2019 - 06:53 PM
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djmason9 wrote:
... or where these were made..:-)
Lingsen Taichung Taiwan or Lingsen Ningpo China, Microchip Thailand (date code 1911 and subsequent)

Country-of-Origin (CoO) is on package's bottom by the injection molding machine.

After 1-Sept'17, only CoO is on the bottom.

 

https://www.microchip.com/mymicrochip/Reports.aspx?type=cpn&filter=ATtiny85

Product Change Notification - GBNG-15KQFZ896 - 11 Jul 2017 - CCB 2971 Final Notice: Implement marking changes for virtually all Atmel products (first attachment)

http://www.lingsen.com.tw/webe/html/about/about.aspx

 

edit :

djmason9 wrote:
Location: Chandler AZ
laugh

About | Microchip Technology

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Tue. Nov 19, 2019 - 06:56 PM
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djmason9 wrote:
Lesson here is order from reputable source.

LOL - hence my question in #7 !

 

laugh

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 I have determined that the issue is a batch of fake chips from china.

Am I allowed to pay them with fake money?  Seems equal value for equal parts. 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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I hope you didn't make the mistake I made before by accidentally set the chip to use the external clock.

 

If you suspected to made that mistake, try putting the crystal oscillator between Pin 2 and Pin 3 and reupload the bootloader with Internal Oscillator setting selected.

 

Good Luck!

Writing codes for a living!

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MilkyBay wrote:
, try putting the crystal oscillator between Pin 2 and Pin 3 and reupload the bootloader with Internal Oscillator setting selected.
Or one of the other suggestions in the tutorial I wrote:

 

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

 

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I remain sceptical.    I can believe that a punter has done something silly e.g. bad wiring, inappropriate fuse setting, ...

I can't believe that anyone would try to sell counterfeit chips.

 

After all,  the buyer is unlikely to purchase 10000 in the first order.    Any smaller quantity is "not worth the scam" from the vendor.

Whatever the size of the purchase,  the buyer is not going to repeat her order.

 

It is possible that a batch of pre-programmed chips appear on the Ebay / AliExpress market.   e.g. surplus inventory from an assembly house with fuses set for an external clock.

So it is wise to examine your "broken" chips with a proper programmer (and good wiring).

 

David.

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david.prentice wrote:
I can't believe that anyone would try to sell counterfeit chips.

And yet, clearly, they do!

 

Whether it is the case here remains questionable - but counterfeit chips certainly are A Thing.

 

https://www.sparkfun.com/news/364

 

Remember the fake FTDI stuff a few years ago ?

 

And there's the well-known fake nrf24l01 chips - which can be identified by an operational bug; eg,

 

https://www.avrfreaks.net/commen...

 

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Think about it.   You would have to set up a machine to scrub off the existing laser printing.   Then set up another machine to print the fake numbers.

 

Practical for $10 DIP-40 chips.   Sell through Ebay.   Most customers do not complain.

 

Not practical to do "by hand".    $0.50 SMD chip in reel packaging.   And you still don't sell that many through Ebay.

Yes,  if you work in a Semiconductor Fab and can access the printing and packaging.

 

I am sure that Ebay vendors have got better ways to scam the public.  (and actually make money)

 

David.

 

Distant cousins there's a limited supply.

Last Edited: Fri. Nov 22, 2019 - 02:30 PM
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djmason9 wrote:
I have determined that the issue is a batch of fake chips from china.
Not impossible, but far more likely that you have previously loved chips that have been programmed with non-default fuses e.g. with RSTDISBL programmed.

 

Before tossing the batch into a bin, try HVSP on one or more of them.

 

Do those which report 0x1e9005 do so consistently?

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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hey guys thanks for the feed back. I tested each chip with my "janky" setup and they consistently report 0x1e9005 or 0x000000 and the older ones i have all work as expected. This leads me to think its NOT my wiring or setup but rather that the chips are bogus. I did report this to ali express and to their credit have issued a refund. So like i said lesson learned i ordered the new owns from Digi-Key and hopefully they won't be an issue.

 

 

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I have a mac and have not found a great tool to flash them other than arduino any suggestions

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djmason9 wrote:
I have a mac and have not found a great tool to flash them other than arduino any suggestions

MPLABx perhaps!

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djmason9 wrote:
This leads me to think ... that the chips are bogus.

But what David ans  joeymorin  are saying is that it is more likely that the chips are genuine, but have been previously programmed - leaving them in an incompatible state with your setup.

 

In which case you should be able to "recover" them as described ...

 

 

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And you can even add a "clock"signal to your clamshell.

 

It is possible but unlikely that RSTDISBL fuse has been programmed.

It is quite likely that EXTCLOCK or EXTXTAL has been programmed.

 

Did your SMD chips come in sealed tape?

 

Rigging up HVSP is relatively easy.   You would then get an accurate answer.   e.g. non-virgin Fuses and/or non-virgin Flash.

 

David.

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awneil wrote:

In which case you should be able to "recover" them as described ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=hvsp+arduino

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]