New ATtiny10 - the first ever 6-pin AVR

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ATtiny10: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/product...

Quote:
Description:
1K Bytes of In-System Self-Programmable Flash, 32 Bytes Internal SRAM.
One 16-bit Timer/Counter with PWM channels, 8-bit ADC, Analog Comparator.
Up to 12 MIPS throughput at 12 MHz. 1.8 - 5.5 V operation.

Key Parameters:
Flash (Kbytes) 1
SRAM (Bytes) 32
Max I/O Pins 4
F.max (MHz) 12
Vcc (V) 1.8-5-5V
Analog Comparator Yes

ATtiny10 Datasheet Preliminary (164 pages, revision A, updated 4/09) http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...
ATtiny10 Datasheet Preliminary Summary (14 pages, revision A, updated 4/09) http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Last Edited: Fri. Apr 17, 2009 - 10:19 AM
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Nice! Thanks for the heads up.

Interesting memory structure on this one.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 03:18 PM
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">>New<< ATtiny10"?!?

Why, this has to be the oldest Tiny of them all, being announced in a previous millenium:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheet...

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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The Farnell spec sheet shows an 8 pin device!

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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AndersAnd wrote:
Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

I think the idea is that it lets you use ANY I/O pin as an ADC input, not necessarily all... but you could. Practically speaking, you're right, the number of applications where you would use them all as ADC's is going to be very limited.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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theusch wrote:
">>New<< ATtiny10"?!?

Why, this has to be the oldest Tiny of them all, being announced in a previous millenium:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheet...

Lee

ka7ehk wrote:
The Farnell spec sheet shows an 8 pin device!

Jim

Obviously re-use of a device name that never hit the streets.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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Note that there is a new "ISP" interface, "TPI". (More like I2C than like SPI?)

I'm not holding my breath to get samples. I wish there were a few bytes of EEPROM but if it ends up cheap enough I'll get along without.

Whoa--new instruction set mix. No SPM >>or<< LPM. A new BREAK instruction I don't think I've seen before.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Only the 2009-tiny10 seems to have a CLKMSR register while the 1999-tiny10 had no mention of this. How extremely confusing if they've re-used the same model number for an entirely different device.

But the idea of clock selection internally rather than by fuse bits (that CLKMSR provides) looks like an interesting development - no more clock fuse accidents?

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AndersAnd wrote:
Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

Yeah I noticed that other ATtiny10 announced a long time ago in the ATtiny10/11/12 datasheet:

Quote:
ATtiny10 is the QuickFlash OTP Version of ATtiny11

But that was a 8-pin device, just an One Time Programmable version of ATtiny11. But I don't think it ever made it to the market and that's why they decided to use the same name again although this can be confusing.
The new 6-pin flash ATtiny10 has nothing to do with the old never relaswed 8-pin OTP ATtiny10.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 03:36 PM
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theusch wrote:
Note that there is a new "ISP" interface, "TPI". (More like I2C than like SPI?)

I'm not holding my breath to get samples. I wish there were a few bytes of EEPROM but if it ends up cheap enough I'll get along without.

Whoa--new instruction set mix. No SPM >>or<< LPM. A new BREAK instruction I don't think I've seen before.

LPM is accomplished by a mapping of the flash into data space! Sadly no writing to flash from code though, so no lack of EEPROM workaround either.

BREAK has been in the AVR instruction set documentation since at least Rev E

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 03:32 PM
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They are probably trying to compete on price with the 6-pin PIC10F2xx series: http://www.microchip.com/ParamCh...
Those have no EEPROM either and even less Flash than ATtiny10's 1 kB. (PIC10F2xx has 0.375 kB or 0.75 kB).

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I noticed both CodeVisonAVR and AVR Studio started to include support for ATtiny10 a month or two ago, so I knew a new ATtiny10 was coming but couldn't find any info about it before now (excpet for that other never old and never released OTP version of ATtiny11).
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Quote:
Welcome to AVR Studio 4.16
==========================

Please see release history for information about earlier releases.

Part support
============

The following new parts have been added to AVR Studio since 4.15:

* ATtiny10
* ATtiny24A
* ATtiny44A
* ATxmega32A4
* ATxmega16A4
* ATmega164PA
* ATmega48PA

http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/cv...

Quote:
CodeVisionAVR Revision History

V2.04.0 Commercial Release

    • fixed: the compiler now generates correct instructions for AVR8L reduced core chips (ATtiny10 and future ATtiny5, ATtiny20 chips) • added the predefined preprocessor macro _AVR8L_CORE_ which specifies that code is generated for the AVR8L reduced core chips
    • added in Project|Configure|C Compiler|Code Generation the option Enable auto Var. Watch in AVR Studio in order to allow watching local automatic variables for AVR8L reduced core chips
    • updated the Help topics: RAM Memory Organization and Register Allocation and Limitations in order to provideadditional information regarding the AVR8L core chips
    • ...

V2.03.9 Commercial Release

    • added support for the ATtiny10 chip in the Compiler, CodeWizardAVR and Programmer • ...
Looks like Atmel have also planned future ATtiny5 and ATtiny20. Both also based on the AVR8L reduced core like ATtiny10.
Given the names, it's likely the ATtiny5 and ATtiny 20 will just be 0.5 kB and 2 kB versions of the 1 kB ATtiny10.

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glitch wrote:
AndersAnd wrote:
Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

I think the idea is that it lets you use ANY I/O pin as an ADC input, not necessarily all... but you could. Practically speaking, you're right, the number of applications where you would use them all as ADC's is going to be very limited.

Although we have now passed April 1, it got me thinking of this hilarious old joke by a Signetics engineer that later tunred into an April's Fool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wri...
Quote:
The Signetics original

Out of frustration with the long and seemingly useless chain of approvals required of component specifications, during which no actual checking seemed to occur, an engineer at Signetics once created a specification for a write-only memory and included it with a bunch of other specifications to be approved. This inclusion came to the attention of Signetics management only when regular customers started calling and asking for pricing information. Signetics published a corrected edition of the data book and requested the return of the 'erroneous' ones.

Later, in 1972, Signetics bought a double-page spread in the April issue of Electronics and used the spec as an April Fool's Day joke. Instead of the more conventional characteristic curves, the 25120 "fully encoded, 9046 x N, Random Access, write-only-memory" data sheet included diagrams of "bit capacity vs. Temp.", "Iff vs. Vff", "Number of pins remaining vs. number of socket insertions", and "AQL[1] [2] vs. selling price". The 25120 required a 6.3 VAC Vff (vacuum tube filament) supply, a +10V Vcc (double the Vcc of standard TTL logic of the day), and Vdd of 0V (ie. ground), ±2%.[3]


Datasheet for Signetics 25120 Fully Encoded, 9046 x N, Random Acess Write-Only-Memory http://www.national.com/rap/file...

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So what would be typical uses for such little processor?

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jayjay1974 wrote:
So what would be typical uses for such little processor?

They could be used for many simple tasks. For example timing devices, "glue logic", translating one serial protocl to another, simple ADC conversion etc. Cheap microcontollers canbe used to replace things like 555 timers or logic gates, counters etc.
I think some electical toothbrushes use small PIC processors, this could be a typical place to use a simple microtontoller to tell you when to stop brushing.

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The good news. You can now use LD(S) and ST(S) instructions on flash and it only take 1/2(3?) clk.
This can make small and fast lookup tabels.

Only 8 bit ADC but it still take 13 clk (I think that it's just the normal 10bit where you can't get to the top 2 bit!)

Jens

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Two lower bits are not available I'd say ;)

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sparrow2 wrote:
The good news. You can now use LD(S) and ST(S) instructions on flash and it only take 1/2(3?) clk.
This can make small and fast lookup tabels.

Well you could use STS, but it's not going to do anything. But yes, LDS is the appropriate replacement for LPM in this case. They do mention a clock penalty on access to the memory mapped flash, so I'm not convinced it's going to be any faster.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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LD take 1/2 (so it must be 1 from RAM and 2 from FLASH!)
but the good thing is that you now can use X and Y and not only Z !

It would be nice if this came to the 8K parts.(or any parts where the sum of RAM and FLASH is less than 64K).

like the x mega the LD of -X(Y,Z) take longer than the other loads, so they must have copyed some of the memory handling (it's the other loads that's got faster ;) )

Jens

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And I have to add that this datasheet is the first for a non x mega where the instruction set show the correct flag handling (so the errors form 1996 is removed! ) Goooood news.

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Neet! Ironically, it's just a bit smaller than ATMega32 in the weird ceramic packaging option, and just a milimeter on each side smaller than tiny2313.

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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sparrow2 wrote:
And I have to add that this datasheet is the first for a non x mega where the instruction set show the correct flag handling (so the errors form 1996 is removed! ) Goooood news.

What flag handling errors are you referring to?

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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LD Rd, -Z Load Indirect and Pre-Decrement Z ← Z - 1, Rd ← (Z) None 2/3

:P

RES

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sparrow2 wrote:
LD take 1/2 (so it must be 1 from RAM and 2 from FLASH!)
but the good thing is that you now can use X and Y and not only Z !

It would be nice if this came to the 8K parts.(or any parts where the sum of RAM and FLASH is less than 64K).

like the x mega the LD of -X(Y,Z) take longer than the other loads, so they must have copyed some of the memory handling (it's the other loads that's got faster ;) )

Jens

And from the "memory programming" part of the datasheet:

Quote:

The NVM has only one read port and, therefore, the next instruction and the data can not be read simultaneously. When the application reads data from NVM locations mapped to the data space, the data is read first before the next instruction is fetched. The CPU execution is here delayed by one system clock cycle.

So it appears to me that the is a hidden 1 cycle penalty, bringing the total 1 higher. Unfortunately the instruction set document has not been updated yet to clarify this.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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Great!! Now I can make that two input NAND gate emulator that I've wanted and still have one pin left over :D

Regards,
Steve A.

The Board helps those that help themselves.

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I'm thinking that a cycle here-or-there will be the least of our worries. There is a modest max speed anyway. With limited pin count you probably wouldn't do a MiniDDS anyway. [Hmmm--16-bit PWM output; a pot for frequency and a pot for amplitude and a spare pin for selecting the waveform type ...]

No-one has yet mentioned 16 registers instead of 32? And they could have at least tossed us a bone with a GPIOR or two down low in address space. ;)

Even with RSTDISBL you can still HV program the part (+12V to /RESET). When do you think ATAVRISP2 will support TPI?

"VLM VCC Voltage Level Monitor" with an interrupt to warn of impending power loss (though there is nowhere/no way to save state anyway :( ).

Any guesses on price? Tiny25 is a little less than $1/qty. 100. The mentioned PIC is about $0.80 in 100s, and about $0.50 in 3000 (reel?). So I'd guess the same--about US$0.75/qty. 100. Still not as inexpensive as the old Tiny11.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I got an email from Nu Horizons this morning announcing the part, showing a price of 0.35/10k. [read about the part here first though] Also says samples available now, and production quantities in May.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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Quote:

Also says samples available now, and production quantities in May.

LOL--shall we start a pool? Lessee, a prize to the first person that actually receives a sample (and maybe we should qualify that to be the first one to get a blinky running, which would imply availability of a programmer and a toolchain). And a prize for the closest date to when the Atmel North American Stock Check shows at least one distributor with stock.

I've got to see what I could offer. Perhaps a printed 1997 AVR databook--the kiddies have prbably never >>seen<< a printed databook. ;)

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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dev/eval kit is listed as the STK600 [ATSTK600]
They are selling an $49 adapter for the chip to fit the stk600. [ATSTK600-ATTINY10] (availability unknown)

I'll see if I can find this announcement PDF publically, if so I'll link it here.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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Well here is the news announcement, that has some of the info.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/corpora...

The PDF I have does some comparisons against the Microchip PIC10F family, and the Freescale RS08KA family. One interesting point is that they don't compare the same specs with both families... Most notable are the lack of Icc comparisons with the PICs

Since most of the text of the PDF is at the link, I'll attach the PDF.

Attachment(s): 

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Perhaps a printed 1997 AVR databook--the kiddies have prbably never >>seen<< a printed databook.
I've HEARD of them... those things that replaced clay tablets? ;-)
Nah, seen lots of em.

I wonder when will it arrive onto the shops. REALLY arrive.

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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Quote:

dev/eval kit is listed as the STK600 [ATSTK600]
They are selling an $49 adapter for the chip to fit the stk600. [ATSTK600-ATTINY10] (availability unknown)

LOL again--As I recall, the ATAVRISP2 is advertised as "able to program all AVRs".
[edit] In the first page of the user's guide: "The AVRISP mkII combined with AVR Studio® can program all AVR® 8-bit RISC microcontrollers with ISP Interface." But I suppose the "out" is that this is TPI and not ISP?!?

Thanks for the legwork. I don't know what kind of "motes" would be the application arena. We struggled with an app about 5-8 years ago trying to build a 6-month "maintenance needed" timer for under $1 or so in components. We couldn't do it, with CMOS counters or a micro. The next year the Tiny11 came out at like $0.30 or $0.40 in reels, and that would have worked.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 09:42 PM
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Catch the edits... I uploaded the PDF.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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To reiterate, having a few bytes of EEPROM would have been really nice.

Of course, someone could always ask for more, 16-64 bytes seems right. This can store a very long serial number, config data, and maybe a short string.

I suspect that if there's enough demand from user's, we may get this.

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http://www.electronicspecifier.c...

Wow only 2 cent, I didn't knew ATtiny10 would be that cheap. :lol:

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 11:58 PM
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Oh FSM! ANOTHER programming interface! First ISP, then JTAG, then DebugWire, then the bizzare thing Xmega use... ARGH!

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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The STUPIDEST thing Atmel has done so far!!!

Will the real ATTiny10 please step forward.

Of course it is supported by my ICE200 or not...

I have purchased a ATTiny10 but does not fit into my board...

I have selected a ATTiny10 in my ASM project but ...

Fortunately it may take as long as the bigger cousin before people start using it.

I can't wait for a model T Ford next.

Data sheet circa 1999AD. Maybe the guy that come up with the name was not born yet. Oh wait! It's a late April's fool's joke.

Attachment(s): 

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Doesn't that same book mention the mega603?

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Aww, you are all so newbies! :)

There weren't any ATtiny* or ATmega* parts available during the prehistoric AVR era, were real men were programming in .ASM, using "AVR Studio v1.40" and "AVR Assembler & Simulator v1.21".

There were only four AT90S* processors.

...ducking for cover,
-George

Attachment(s): 

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

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Oh, I remember those days, as clear as mud! A mere 12 years ago. How time flies when you have waiting for an XMega!

Actually, I can see lots of uses for these puppies!

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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You are totally right, Jim!

Those chips were a riot, back then!
They could be used even today, despite their lacking hardware, compared to the latest AVR lines in terms of operating voltage range & frequency in respect, output drive symmetry, power management and hardware complexity in general.

-George

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

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Oh Man! Where do I put my By-pass Cap?

JC

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I was referring to the new TIny10 as "one of those puppies".

JC: note that there is only ONE Vcc pin, no AVcc, so there is no special filtering for ADC. That is probably consistent with 8 bit ADC resolution. If you put a bypass cap on the back side of the board, you can drop a via from Vcc and Gnd pins, and be right at each end of the cap. Hard to get shorter leads than that.

SOT23-6, which this appears to be, is relatively easy to solder, as the pins are further apart. It runs from 1.8V to 5.5V which is very nice. If you keep the voltage above 4.5V, it will tick at 12MHz which is nice. Internal 8MHz oscillator is OK, I am a bit disappointed that there is no serial interface as I can see this being a very useful peripheral device (example: incremental encoder interface).

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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Finally, I am so glad to see the SOT23-6 chip come out *great cries of happiness*.

Now, the question is what will the costs be... if it's more than the tiny13 then it's a bit of a letdown :\

All in all, from what I've seen on the datasheets it's perfect to replace the tiny13 75% of the products I produce.

Anyone stocking of offering samples yet? Something like this I'd be going through a couple of hundred a month.

Paul.

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Oops... Sorry, Jim, for my incorrect interpretation of the comment about "one of those puppies"; I connected "those puppies" to the other ones of "those days, [...] a mere 12 years ago."

JC, In addition to Jim's comments on the power supply line decoupling, I think that in those circumstances the "ADC Noise Reduction" sleep mode would help to eliminate most of the self-interference during any ADC measurement.

-George

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

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Quote:
Anyone stocking of offering samples yet?
..right AFTER the Xmega I believe... :?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I'm happy to see these, assuming they're cheap. I'm a bit surprised about the particular compromises that had to be made - especially the reduced register count. I would expect to lose some features given the small chip size necessary to fit into a SOT-23, but I wouldn't have expected that cutting the lower 16 registers would save much space. What have I missed? Are the opcodes two bits smaller perhaps, reducing the area required for flash? Using GCC will probably be out, but I guess for something with such little memory assembly is the best option anyway.

It's nice to see that Atmel has documented the new programming interface (TPI) - it would have been disappointing if they'd introduced another undocumented one like DebugWIRE.

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mcollas wrote:
Using GCC will probably be out,

Why?
CodeVisionAVR already support ATtiny10 with the AVR8L reduced core.

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I'd assumed that avr-gcc's register usage would be an issue. For example, r0 as a temp register, r1 as a zero register and pairs down to r9:r8 used for function calls. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and it could already handle the reduced core. Now that I think about it, avr-gcc will probably be updated well before the tiny10 is actually available.

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Quote:

Finally, I am so glad to see the SOT23-6 chip come out

Tell more about the types of apps where you might use this. I could make a function generator, or a small one-output industrial timer with two pots for on/off duration setting, but I'm not really saving anything unless I make a zillion of them. I'd guess it would only be a few cents less than a Tiny25 in low quantities.

Quote:

Anyone stocking of offering samples yet?

I ordered samples through Atmel's Web site yesterday, 15-April. So let's see if I can win my own contest. :lol:

Quote:

(example: incremental encoder interface).

Quadrature input takes two pins. Only one external INT0 on PB2. Could use the analog comparator if there were an internal bandgap, but that is out. So we are left with pin-change which is OK for x2 or x4 quadrature, or can check the edge state.

Now, what kind of "interface" are you going to have? PWM-out?

[I'm having trouble grasping the utility for general work.]

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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