New Atmel product: AVR Dragon

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In case anyone missed it there's a new service pack 3 for AVR Studio:

https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

I guess everyone will want to be up to date anyway - however one of the most intersting things you find when you apply this is the whole new section in Help describing a new "AVR Dragon" product which seems to combine ISP and JTAG in a single device and the promise is:

Quote:
With the AVR Dragon, Atmel has set a new standard for low cost development tools


If it turns out to be as good as it looks, it's going to be quite a product!

Cliff

Last Edited: Sat. Jul 1, 2006 - 01:42 PM
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a bit strange..normally tools that get "handled" like ISp and Jtag tools come in an Atmel Case to protect them...this one has no case? The 32KB or less of Flash limits it also unlike JtagII AND ISPII...interesting ...it sort of looks like it just came off the boat! :wink:

Actually if it costs less than $75 and does debug wire so I can emulate all the small one wire Mega and Tiny devices , I wouldn't care if it had a case!

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 16, 2006 - 06:10 PM
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Reading the description, it occurs to me that the Flash size limit is only for OCD functionality; I get the feeling that ISP/HVSP/PP/JTAGProg will be supported across the board.

At least, the ATmega128 is already supported for ISP/HVPP/JTAGProg.

Quote:
a bit strange..normally tools that get "handled" like ISp and Jtag tools come in an Atmel Case to protect them...this one has no case?

It also includes a small on-board prototype area. Adding a case would get in the way.

I get the feeling that this will be designed as an introductory device, along the same vein as the STK500 and Butterfly before it. Adding a case would increase the cost.

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trying to squint at the picture..looks like it has a header for isp, jtag, HV programming...I also see the land pattern for a dip 40 socket sitting on top of a 28 pin dip socket pattern....no 8 pin? and then a dual row header that appears to grab everything

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 16, 2006 - 06:20 PM
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what do you think the 6 pin header next to Jtag hdr is? ( not the isp 6 pin hdr) is thta debug wire? and then on the flip side are two 10 pin headers for what ? this plug into something else piggyback?

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bluegoo wrote:
trying to squint at the picture..ooks like it has a header for isp, jtag, HV programming...I also see the land pattern for a dip 40 socket sitting on top of a 28 pin dip socket pattern....no 8 pin? and then a dula row header that appears to grab everything

8-pin devices can be installed in the 28-pin space.

The 40-pin and 28-pin sockets are arbitrarily mapped back to the "EXPAND" header, simply running from pin 1 up to 40.

The help file shows a diagram in which the 40-pin outline is used to install a ZIF socket into which one could insert any arbitrary DIP part of 40 pins or less.

According to the help file, it appears that you need to manually establish the appropriate connections between the VCC/ISP/JTAG pins and the various pins in the EXPAND header in order to be able to program chips installed in the onboard prototype space.

[edit] Download the latest AVR Studio service pack. It includes a manual section for the AVR Dragon with a hardware description. [/edit]

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 16, 2006 - 06:25 PM
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looks like it has a ton of sram..1meg or bigger device?

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so if you put a zif socket for example on this critter to do debug do you use the dual row header to connect to your target proto?

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That would be my guess... Either that or use the JTAG header to connect directly to a connector on the target proto as you would with a JTAG ICE today...

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well if it will HV program dip packages then I can junk my STK500 which is the only thing I use it for.....

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so this SP3 is sill betaware? refering to the release notes it looks like most of the bug fixes address issues for the compiler I do not use """I am ducking now.........!!!"" so possibly the rest of the IDE is doing well which is always good to know!

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Quote:

"""I am ducking now.........!!!""

LOL

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Looks good,
But what doest it cost and where can I get it now today!

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I think the major differences between this device and the Evertool are:
1) debugWire support! (benefit)
2) No emulation of devices with greater than 32 kB of Flash. (drawback)
3) Full emulation support (eventually) of all devices with 32 kB or less of Flash. (benefit)
4) Full-speed USB connectivity, probably capable of the speeds you can get with an AVRISP mkII. (benefit)
5) The Evertool literally stuffs a complete AVRISP circuit and a complete JTAGICE circuit on one board, and you flip a switch to route the serial command signals to one circuit or the other. The Dragon (by all appearances, and from what I can see in the new Studio help files) actually combines all the functionality of both tools into one host microcontroller.

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A curious combination of Viking and Chinese dragons in the Ringerlike "gripping beast" style. A collaboration?

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This is very promising news indeed! I have been window-shopping for a JTAG dongle for at least two years now, but as it looks like the mega48/88/168s will be my new "medium size" device of choice I hesitated as they are dW devices rather than JTAG. I was really fearing that Atmel had changed strategie, and did not intend to offer low cost emulator h/w for dW which semms to be their new interface of choice. Rally good news indeed!

Gotta scream, just a little: I WANT ONE! I WANT ONE NOW!

So, does anyone with better Atmel connections (Hi, EW!) know:

When will it be available?
What will it cost?

How can I get a guarantee to have one from the first batch? 8)

And also a bit curious about:
What's this with emulation only for devides up to 32kB FLASH? I was under ther impression that the JTAG dongles was a protocol converter that would not "care" about the size of the target devices' FLASH size.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Hi all

glad you are excited. Just a few words. As you allready have commented it supports ISP programming, High Voltage Serial Programming, Parallell programming and JTAG Programming - wich effectively means it will support every programming protocol of every 8 bit AVR.
In addition it supports dW OCD interface and JTAG OCD interface, the latter with the limitation that it only supports devices <= 32K Flash (flash size matters for breakpoint handling).
Then it has some neat additional features:
It has a regulated 5V VCC that can supply 300 mA to a target (if your PC/USB can deliver the specified 500mA).
It has a prototype area where you even can solder a 40 pin ZIF DIL sockt if you please.
ISP and JTAG lines are short circut protected, overvoltage protected and level converted.

Yes! it is launced first in China ( - good observation magno_grail), these days actually, expect volume production for the rest of the world by the end of July. Then it can be purchased through all normal channels.
At this stage it supports a limited number of devices, the number will grow rapidly through device support and service packs for AVR Studio 4. All in all we believe this to be a pretty good deal. Wait till you see the box it comes in - it is ... something to be seen.

And the recomenneded retail is ... $49.

Regards dag @ atmel.

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dabraend wrote:
Hi all

glad you are excited. Just a few words. As you allready have commented it supports ISP programming, High Voltage Serial Programming, Parallell programming and JTAG Programming - wich effectively means it will support every programming protocol of every 8 bit AVR.
In addition it supports dW OCD interface and JTAG OCD interface, the latter with the limitation that it only supports devices <= 32K Flash (flash size matters for breakpoint handling).
Then it has some neat additional features:
It has a regulated 5V VCC that can supply 300 mA to a target (if your PC/USB can deliver the specified 500mA).
It has a prototype area where you even can solder a 40 pin ZIF DIL sockt if you please.
ISP and JTAG lines are short circut protected, overvoltage protected and level converted.

Yes! it is launced first in China ( - good observation magno_grail), these days actually, expect volume production for the rest of the world by the end of July. Then it can be purchased through all normal channels.
At this stage it supports a limited number of devices, the number will grow rapidly through device support and service packs for AVR Studio 4. All in all we believe this to be a pretty good deal. Wait till you see the box it comes in - it is ... something to be seen.

And the recomenneded retail is ... $49.

Regards dag @ atmel.


At that price I will definitely buy one, mostly for the debugwire. This looks to be an excellent device and I bet it is very popular if it sells for as little as $49!

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Working on a saturday, Dag?

Quote:

And the recomenneded retail is ... $49.

:D

Quote:

All in all we believe this to be a pretty good deal.

Well, if I ever saw an understatement...

Quote:

Yes! it is launced first in China ( - good observation magno_grail), these days actually, expect volume production for the rest of the world by the end of July. Then it can be purchased through all normal channels.

:( At least unil the end of july, that is. Then it all depends on if www.elfa.se will stock it (they don't stock the Butterfly), and how much higher (not if) their retail price will be.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I just have to have one of these!
cool dragons too :)

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Count me in... As the Mega32 is pretty much my part of choice, I'll take two! It would be nice to have an emulator and debugger (that's the primary reason I'm nearly bauld!). I haven't use a debugger since I jumped off of the MC68HC811E2FN wagon - mostely because I didn't want to shell out the cost for JTAG.

Very cool!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Will the Dragon kill the Butterfly? :-)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Hush yo mouf, boy!

Smiley

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ooops..that took the "smiley" of your face :-) but look on the positive side now you can distribute both the Butterfly and the Dragonfly with an easy C book...or I could distribute the Dragon with and easy assembler book :lol:...oh no, I may be putting ideas in somebody's mind whose name is unmentionable :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Hi all on this thread

just to show that we appreciate your input and enthusiasm: All of you that has posted on this thread prior to this message will receive one AVR Dragon for free from the first batch. Send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com and we will handle the rest.

Regards
dag @ atmel.

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dabraend wrote:
Hi all on this thread

just to show that we appreciate your input and enthusiasm: All of you that has posted on this thread prior to this message will receive one AVR Dragon for free from the first batch. Send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com and we will handle the rest.

Regards
dag @ atmel.

Has anyone else responded to the generous offer? I certianlly did... I just couldn't believe what I was reading.

If this e-mail isn't a hoax (scepticle mind with all of the scams and all), I think the recipients may well be the test bed for Atmel, but that's ok because the Dragon looks like it offers some great enhancements over the STK500 and I have to learn it anyway.

Long Live AVR!!!.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
If this e-mail isn't a hoax (scepticle mind with all of the scams and all), I think the recipients may well be the test bed for Atmel, but that's ok because the Dragon looks like it offers some great enhancements over the STK500 and I have to learn it anyway.

Dag Braend is the Tools Director for the AVR Tools - so this is definitely happening :-) Just send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com!!

admin's test signature
 

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I did, I did!!!

This is great!!!

Thanks again!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

Last Edited: Thu. Jun 22, 2006 - 03:04 PM
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And here I thought it was "Early Bird Gets the Worm, Late Mouse Gets the Cheese" :lol:

Let us all know what you all think of your dragons! There are many people I am sure are excited to hear your impressions of it!

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Luckily, I made one of my normal smart-a** retorts earlier in the thred, so I'm in. :) Email is on its way.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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dabraend wrote:
Hi all on this thread

just to show that we appreciate your input and enthusiasm: All of you that has posted on this thread prior to this message will receive one AVR Dragon for free from the first batch. Send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com and we will handle the rest.

Regards
dag @ atmel.

H*ll! It's the first time I see this post... I should have visited the forum even if I was in exams :(

Well, I'll have to wait to the end of July and 50$ :)

Last Edited: Thu. Jun 22, 2006 - 01:33 PM
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BaNaNe, how does one go three years with only twelve posts? I think I need to learn to keep my big mouth quiet some times - I think I can learn from you... :?

But not today! :D

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Mhm I started AVR 3 years ago but have no time to practise all the time... but I often come in forums to learn some usefull things... And if I have some problem, I prefer post on French forums, it's easier for me :wink:

But nevermind, he says prior to his mail, it is prior to his mail.
But this Dragon interested me ;)

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abcminiuser wrote:
BaNaNe, how does one go three years with only twelve posts? I think I need to learn to keep my big mouth quiet some times - I think I can learn from you... :?

But not today! :D

- Dean :twisted:

No Dean... That's just not good reasoning and you are quite mistaken!

You are a huge asset to AVRFreaks. While you are a young man and sometimes think like a young person, it is refreshing because you bring interesting conceptes to the table.

And I'm sure you know that BUTTLoad is a valuable contribution to the community, as well as all of the help that you provide!

And while some though it a bit distasteful and, old farts like me would never dream of putting an avatar showing off our fat (not to say your's is fat) BUTTs but, that is what kids do. I thought it was a fun thing and added some humor at a time whent we needed some humor.

So Dean, just keep being yourself and continue streaming your valued input into the AVRFreaks forum!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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dabraend wrote:
Hi all on this thread

just to show that we appreciate your input and enthusiasm: All of you that has posted on this thread prior to this message will receive one AVR Dragon for free from the first batch. Send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com and we will handle the rest.

Regards
dag @ atmel.


This is ..uh... incredible. I'm in for this one!

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Shipping Address in the mail...Thanks Dag :D

at $50 you will sell a boatload of these!!!!!

Quote:
Dag Braend is the Tools Director for the AVR Tools - so this is definitely happening Just send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com!!

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Yeah, I'm going to get one too, to replace the $500 JTAG-ICE Mk2 crap I just bought for working with some debugWire devices.
Sure hope it's going to work better with my STK1000.

/Jesper
http://www.yampp.com
The quick black AVR jumped over the lazy PIC.
What boots up, must come down.

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Oh, well I have been trying all day to log in, but my slooow connection stopped me. I got my hands full with the bunch of AVR tinys I just got in the mail. I'm having fun with shift registers. What a great combo the tinys and SR's make. Let me know what you lucky guys think of the dragon.

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Wow - this is one tool I wouldn't have even minded paying for. At $50 it's a steal, and I'm going to get one for free! That just makes my day. I just sent an e-mail with my shipping address. Thanks Atmel!

edit: did everybody else get an automated message about opening a service request or something like that? I did...

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I know I have missed the offer but I still have some questions all the same.

I recently purchased a JTAG MkII for myself and I typically use AVRs with >32K so I would like to know if there are any major functional differences between the AVR Dragon and the JTAG MkII. When I see the AVR Dragon at that price it makes me wonder if I should replace my MkII with an AVR Dragon for my small personal hobby development as I think the MkII is alittle overkill for what I do but it was the only option I had at the time. As much as I have enjoyed using AVR for years now the only way I could justify the cost of the MkII to myself is that it is a combination birthday/graduation gift to myself.

Are there any performance difference between the AVR Dragon and the JTAG MkII ?

Will the DebugWire interface work on the newer megas that have Debugwire and more then 32k ?

Is it powered purely through the USB port or can it accept an external supply if the USB port cannot supply the current required ?

What accessories will it come with ? I see it will come with the JTAG/STK500 adapter board. I presume it will also come with some jumper wires and a USB cable. What about a power cable ? Any ribbon cables ? Any header extension cables like the MkII has for connecting to the STK500 or will we have to make our own cables much like having to solder our own sockets to the AVR Dragon ?

Will the AVR Dragon support production programming for example CPU serial numbers and batch programming like the STK500 can ?

Will the AVR Dragon support the AVR32 as well ?

Will it come in a case or will it be an exposed board like the STK500 ?

Thanks for any information!

Long live AVR!

Andrew

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I missed the offer too but I'm happy to hear about this new tool. It looks great and I'll get one as soon as it is available.

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I sure hope it works as advertised...would be a nice addition to my workbench!!

Randy

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It's all speculation so far, but here's my take on things...

AndrewTTG wrote:
I recently purchased a JTAG MkII for myself and I typically use AVRs with >32K so I would like to know if there are any major functional differences between the AVR Dragon and the JTAG MkII.

I don't know if you meant >32K or <32K. But any AVR's that are greater than 32K will not have JTAG support in the Dragon. Apparently the Dragon's firmware is insufficient to be able to handle breakpoints beyond the 32K border.

Quote:
When I see the AVR Dragon at that price it makes me wonder if I should replace my MkII with an AVR Dragon for my small personal hobby development as I think the MkII is alittle overkill for what I do but it was the only option I had at the time. As much as I have enjoyed using AVR for years now the only way I could justify the cost of the MkII to myself is that it is a combination birthday/graduation gift to myself.

Are there any performance difference between the AVR Dragon and the JTAG MkII ?

Will the DebugWire interface work on the newer megas that have Debugwire and more then 32k ?


I don't think Atmel has any immediate plans to release any AVR's with greater than 32K in a small-pinout package.

DebugWire isn't positioned to replace JTAG; rather, it provides an alternative OCD interface for devices that have too few pins to be able to sacrifice all 4 pins it takes to support the full JTAG port.

Any new ATmegas with a sufficiently large pin count will probably continue to use the JTAG interface.

Quote:
Is it powered purely through the USB port or can it accept an external supply if the USB port cannot supply the current required ?

What accessories will it come with ? I see it will come with the JTAG/STK500 adapter board. I presume it will also come with some jumper wires and a USB cable. What about a power cable ? Any ribbon cables ? Any header extension cables like the MkII has for connecting to the STK500 or will we have to make our own cables much like having to solder our own sockets to the AVR Dragon ?

Will the AVR Dragon support production programming for example CPU serial numbers and batch programming like the STK500 can ?


It looks as though the AVR Dragon will perform production programming through the same Windows interface as the STK500 does currently; therefore, I would expect that you'll be able to take advantage of all the same features. If they played their cards right, they may even be able to have designed all the communication protocols (JTAG ICE mkII and STK500 versin 2.00) to be able to co-exist on the same communication channel, in which case you may be able to use all the same command-line tools (avrdude and avarice come to mind) with a Dragon as you currently can with STK500/AVRISP/AVRISP mkII and JTAGICE mkII.

Quote:
Will the AVR Dragon support the AVR32 as well ?

I'd doubt it. So far we haven't seen any AVR32's with onboard Flash, so the concept of using the Dragon as a ISP/HV programmer is totally inapplicable.

And I don't see them producing any AVR32's with less than 32 kB of memory either so the OCD unit will be useless...

Quote:
Will it come in a case or will it be an exposed board like the STK500 ?

I'll bet it comes exactly as pictured in the website and in AVR Studio's help files.

Quote:
Long live AVR!

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Microcarl wrote:

You are very kind Microcarl, and that's one of the reasons I look up to you on these forums. I appreciate that not everyone shares my humour (part of the reason for the avitar change) but rest assured I'll still be flapping my gums here and making butt jokes when I'm 30! Assuming Google doesn't take over the internet/world before then.... :?

Quote:
Yeah, I'm going to get one too, to replace the $500 JTAG-ICE Mk2 crap I just bought for working with some debugWire devices.
Sure hope it's going to work better with my STK1000.

Youwah? The JTAG-MKII has worked perfectly for me - what troubles have you had with it? I do remember someone saying it is finnicky about the pullups and capacitance on the lines (/RESET and the DebugWire in particular) but I havn't had any trouble.

The Dragon is good to JTAG all AVR devices with a maximum flash size of 32KB. Larger devices require the JTAG-MKII for OCD.

Quote:
did everybody else get an automated message about opening a service request or something like that? I did...

Yes, I did too. There's a new online help support ticketing system at support.atmel.no which is absolutely brilliant; you can even see replies to your previous questions, and you can see the status of each support ticket.

Quote:
Will it come in a case or will it be an exposed board like the STK500 ?

Think STK500 - it's caseless to reduce the cost and so you can get access to the prototyping section. You need to add in the AVR sockets yourself I believe.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 23, 2006 - 01:44 AM
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lfmorrison wrote:
It's all speculation so far, but here's my take
I don't know if you meant >32K or <32K. But any AVR's that are greater than 32K will not have JTAG support in the Dragon. Apparently the Dragon's firmware is insufficient to be able to handle breakpoints beyond the 32K border.

Yes I read that some where in the forum. The ">" was a typo on my part. Sorry.

lfmorrison wrote:

I don't think Atmel has any immediate plans to release any AVR's with greater than 32K in a small-pinout package.

DebugWire isn't positioned to replace JTAG; rather, it provides an alternative OCD interface for devices that have too few pins to be able to sacrifice all 4 pins it takes to support the full JTAG port.

Any new ATmegas with a sufficiently large pin count will probably continue to use the JTAG interface.

My understanding was with JTAG MkI not supporting any future AVRs that DebugWire was set to replace JTAG in all future AVRs. It was one of the reasons for me getting a JTAG MkII. I guess Atmel is just not going to offer anymore MkI updates for the new AVR. My mistake...yet again.

lfmorrison wrote:

It looks as though the AVR Dragon will perform production programming through the same Windows interface as the STK500 does currently; therefore, I would expect that you'll be able to take advantage of all the same features. If they played their cards right, they may even be able to have designed all the communication protocols (JTAG ICE mkII and STK500 versin 2.00) to be able to co-exist on the same communication channel, in which case you may be able to use all the same command-line tools (avrdude and avarice come to mind) with a Dragon as you currently can with STK500/AVRISP/AVRISP mkII and JTAGICE mkII.

I suspected as much and hope so. I just want to be clear about it.

lfmorrison wrote:

I'd doubt it. So far we haven't seen any AVR32's with onboard Flash, so the concept of using the Dragon as a ISP/HV programmer is totally inapplicable.

And I don't see them producing any AVR32's with less than 32 kB of memory either so the OCD unit will be useless...

One of the selling points of AVR32 as I understand is that many of the current AVR tools are going to be reusable for AVR32. I wanted to know if the upgrade option was going to be there possible through service packs but it looks like it is a hardware limitation. I doubt I need to go to AVR32 with what I am doing.

lfmorrison wrote:

I'll bet it comes exactly as pictured in the website and in AVR Studio's help files.

I remember reading somewhere something along the lines of "Wait till you see the case" so I wasn't sure if it was a joke or true. Once again it doesn't affect me as I keep a fairly clean work environment. My STK500 is still clean and mint after all this time. :)

Thanks for the information lfmorrison. I may just end up returning my JTAG MkII and wait a few months for the AVR Dragon to come out as it seems it will fit my needs.

Andrew

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I may just end up returning my JTAG MkII and wait a few months for the AVR Dragon to come out as it seems it will fit my needs.

Andrew


AndrewTTG
if you decide to give it up put it on Ebay or the AVRfreaks Trading Post...I am sure you will sell it in a minute.....it still is a good investment for many that need to work with other devices like the new megaAVR on the AT90USBKEY :wink:

:)

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All of you that has posted on this thread prior to this message will receive one AVR Dragon for free from the first batch. Send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com and we will handle the rest.

OMG!
I just checked in on this thread after several days of ignoring it.
And find out I'm in for a free dragon :)

I'm not supposed to give out my address on the web but I'm hoping this will be allowed as an exception...

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I wonder away from here for some time and, looky here a new Atmel product! Congrats for those who will be getting one for free! I'm looking to here some good reviews for this and I will probably go and buy it! $49! Thats Crazy..Crazy Good!

Damn it! End of July? School starts agian 2-3 weeks into August. :(


My AVR Site

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Damn it! End of July? School starts agian 2-3 weeks into August

You think you got it bad...I'm taking summer classes :(

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:( That stink. :( Is highschool really that much better than elementry?

Sorry about going off-topic.


My AVR Site

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