Minimizing Tab - Please Add

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I humbly beg you to add the minimize tab to the programming window so each and every time I want to either program or reset, I don't have to click multiple times just to open it back up.

A window should never be lacking the standard features expected in an open window.

I promise, it won't take more than 10 seconds of your programmers time to do so! Just select the window type on the next compile, and... done! if they have a little more time to spare, then make it dockable as well.

This would be great....

Thanks,
Look forward to seeing it on the next release.

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

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Quote:

and every time I want to either program or reset

Use the "Start without debug" option to program the target w/o using the device programming dialog

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

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meolsen wrote:
Quote:

and every time I want to either program or reset

Use the "Start without debug" option to program the target w/o using the device programming dialog

But it's also nice to have that reset there when I am debugging the FPGA that the XMega is talking to.

Yes, I can just leave the window open, but then I can't minimize Studio to get back to my desktop.

Considering all programs that spawn windows always have a minimize tab, it would only seem intuitive that this one does also.

I can't see the logic in not having the minimize function, so I am guessing that the programmer of AS6 accidentally compiled with the wrong tooltip.

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

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Please, please!!!

I will also assemble some code, and burn it to chip. This is very annoying!!! With Studio4, you can leave the programming dialog box open and minimize. WTH??

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Quote:

Please, please!!!

I will also assemble some code, and burn it to chip. This is very annoying!!!


If the only thing you want is to program the result of the lates build to the AVR, then (Please, please!!!) read this thread again. And understand that you will get exactly that by using the Debug menu alternative "Start without debugging". This will program the chip. And in the Debug toolbar there is a button that you simply click that does exactly the same. And if you want a hotkey combination to do it then you can set that up yourself.

Quote:

But it's also nice to have that reset there

What "reset" are you talking about? (The reset that happens after programming?)

I suspect that the problem of minimizing the window is not so simple. The crucial thing is not the missing ability to minimize "per se", but that the dialogue is modal. This means that as long as it is open it will prohibit any user input (clicks, typing etc) going to the "parent window" (i.e. the main Studio window). Even if the programming dialogue was possible to minimize it would still be modal, and Studios main window would not be possible to minimize.

You are asking for a "modeless" programming window, and it will most definitively take more than 10 seconds. Possibly A LOT more, depending on what problems arises when "going modeless" - it can vary from trivial to VERY complicated.

Modal and modeless windows have been present in Windows since the very start (or at least since 3.0) and it was not the first GUI that worked with those types of windows. The programming window in Studio is not the first in history that lacks a minimize button.

Quote:

Considering all programs that spawn windows always have a minimize tab

Far from all windows have minimize functionality (e.g. through a button in the title bar). For an example very close to you, in your Internet Explorer pull down the Tools menu and select Internet Options (in Firefox it's the Tools menu, Options item). No minimize there. (And if you gave me a week I could supply a list with a few hundred other examples.) Now, with that window open - click the main browser window. You can't get there. The Options window is modal.

We've talked before about adding stuff to toolbars, and setting up hotkeys. Go into the keyboard stuff and in the text box "Show commands containing" you enter "reset". Now do you see some interesting command that just might be doing that reset - I haven't tested it , I'll leave that to you, but it really looks promising. If it does what you want, then it seems it already has a hotkey defined (Shift + F5).

Soooo.. You just make sure Studio has focus (e.g. maximize it, or have it as a really small window in a corner of your screen and just click inside it). Then hit Shift + F5 and your AVR will likely reset. Again, Iä'll leave it for you to test.

I will admit that I've been a professional user of Visual Studio for 17 years. It has had this customizabe menu/toolbar/hotkey functionality for as long as I can remember so looking fot stuff like this might be second nature for me but not for you. But I can only urge you to take a look around for the stuff that is available in there - there might be gems that will make your work much more effective! Instead of deciding that one M.O. that you've used somewhere should work everywhere, ponder if the software in front of you might have another way to accomplish what you want.

Explore! Play around! Be curious!

(E.g. wouldn't you want one or two toolbars that does not occupy omre than one "row" and with the stuff you really use - rather than the jungle of buttons that you get by default. Not only possible - I'd say mandatory for any IDE you've used for a few weeks or so.)

Let mew know if what I described didn't make sense and I'll drag out some AVR stuff onto the bench and do a few tests, and do a more detailed write-up.

HTH!

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Last Edited: Tue. Oct 2, 2012 - 07:22 PM
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Yes, there are workarounds, but why should we need them when the general accepted standard is to be able to minimize a window. That's what windows are all about man!

I like to leave the window open and use the "Read Signature" as a reset to my AVR when I am debugging my FPGA. Seomtimes, I even use "Read Voltage" if power supply design is part of my project. This is very handy until you want to get to your desktop, at which point you now have to close the programming window only to open it all back up again for next time.

Removing the minimize tooltip on a pop window is like making a calculator with the digit 5 missing. I mean really.... why do it? It took EXTRA effort on the programmer's part to remove it, making the GUI less friendly.

Just my 24 bits worth (using Ramp-Z).

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

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Quote:

Yes, there are workarounds, but why should we need them when the general accepted standard is to be able to minimize a window. That's what windows are all about man!

It is not a workaround. There is no "general accepted standard" saying all windows should be able to minimize. Some windows are modeless. Others are modal. (I made some additions to my post above about this).

FWIW, I can truly say that I hated AS4's ability to open a programming window that you then could hide, and only with that manouvre done the programming button on the Studio toolbar actually was usable. Youck!

Long live hotkeys! (E.g. do you really click the Edit menu and select Cut, or do you do ctrl-X? Do you really click Archive menu and click Save As.. or do you simply Alt+F, A? Etc etc..).

If there was something I really deplore, it is programs that do not follow that actually established Windows guidelines and gives the user the ability to navigate through applications using the keyboard rather than the mouse. Just as bad as the opposite case (only keyboard navigation, no mouse navigation).

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Last Edited: Tue. Oct 2, 2012 - 07:29 PM
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Quote:

but that the dialogue is modal.

It smacks of laziness on the part of the programmer. If thought about from the outset writing modeless dialogs is no more onerous than modal. In fact it's just like a mini "windows program" inside a windows program so the design is familiar to all Windows programmers.

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It smacks of laziness on the part of the programmer.

Actually, I believe it's due to synchronization problems with the front-end and backend. If you allow the programming window to be hidden, problems will arise if you change settings in two different instances of the window simultaneously, or change your project settings with the programming window open.

Making the window non-modal is easy, rejiggering the backend to cope with multiple concurrent sessions is not.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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There are other reasons than laziness for making a window modal. I can not tell if such a reason exists in this case.

Anyway: Atomic wants the ability to have the programming window open so that he can program/reset while not having the screen blocked by the Studio window. He has another window that he wants to be able to switch to.

1. Instead of asking for the programming window to be the only of Studios windows open he can have Studio window itself open and simply press Shift+F5 (or click the Reset button that he could put up on a toolbar).

2. Even if Studios main window is open and maximized, and it has the modal programming dialogue open on top of it, in what way does this prevent him from switching to the FPGA design software window?

Quote:
until you want to get to your desktop, at which point you now have to close the programming window

There is something weird going on in your machine. I have Studio running, and the programming dialogue open. I have no problem switching to the desktop, or any other running software at that point. Tell us more about how you got into that situation.

Quote:
It took EXTRA effort on the programmer's part to remove it

It most likely did not. Have you seen an IDE with a dialogue editor? Most I've seen has a wizardy way of setting up the framework for a new window, and in there you have the option to make a modal or a modeless one and the former will be set up for you with no minimize button.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Ok, Johan - I can see your point and agree. I guess I am just getting old, I liked it the way it was before!

But then again, I still think 8 bits is enough bits!

I guess I am doing things differently than most, being a weekend hacker. I am now on my 34th FPGA compile already today, trying to get my audio mixer sounding better. Each time, I load the FPGA, I use AS6 to reset the XMega and read the voltage, just to be safe.

Ok, now back to the real fun... parallel process debugging at 100MHz and 32 bits!

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

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I beleive that we are bantering and speculating, and this won't get us to a "modeless" programmer.

So, what windows AVR programmer can we use that was most similar to the AS4 built-in programmer?

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Quote:

So, what windows AVR programmer can we use that was most similar to the AS4 built-in programmer?

The AS4 built-in programmer perhaps?

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I believe that we are bantering and speculating, and this won't get us to a "modeless" programmer.

I believe that the horse is thoroughly dead. Especially with Deans enlightening information above.

Quote:
So, what windows AVR programmer can we use that was most similar to the AS4 built-in programmer?

What aspects of it are you missing? (Any other AVR programmer will be modeless with respect to Atmel Studio, so there must be something else you are missing.)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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You know what would be just great?
A small button right on the AVRISP that when pressed, would compile and then program the AVR with the currently open project.

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

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Quote:

You know what would be just great?
A small button right on the AVRISP that when pressed, would compile and then program the AVR with the currently open project.

You could build one with LUFA - use the keyboard example and make it send the "Start Without Debugging" keyboard shortcut when a button is pressed.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Why change the AS4 to AS6 IDE programmer? Thats what i'm missing. They have made it clumsier and more difficcult to use. I too will be using AS4 for as long as i can.

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My experience is the opposite. In AS4 you could really confuse yourself since the programming dialogue could have any hex file set - possibly not the one being built by the current project. I made the mistake - enough times to learn, and then help several others asking here why no changes whatsoever they did to their code would have any visible effect when programming the device.

AS6 is straight forward in this respect. Shift-F5 will rebuild the current project and program with the so generated hex.

Again: Tell us what you are actually missing and we might find an arrangement that makes you somewhat happier. If you're just about beating the long dead horse ("Give us back the old programming dialog") then from posts above is seems fairly clear that this will never happen.

Heck, even I have stopped whining over AS5/6 not being cross-platform. :D (Not that I am content - I've just stopped whining..)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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abcminiuser wrote:
Quote:

You know what would be just great?
A small button right on the AVRISP that when pressed, would compile and then program the AVR with the currently open project.

You could build one with LUFA - use the keyboard example and make it send the "Start Without Debugging" keyboard shortcut when a button is pressed.

- Dean :twisted:

Hey, great idea! I might just take that on one day because you mentioned it.

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com