Microsoft Visual Studio Community vs. Atmel Studio

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Sat. Nov 29, 2014 - 05:58 AM
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With the recent release of (free) Microsoft Visual Studio Community (VSC) - is Atmel's position and future with Atmel Studio affected?

That is, if one can use VSC for an Atmel or non-Atmel target, esp. in the ARM world, would that remove the need for using Atmel Studio?

 

Seems like Atmel must have a goodly investment in Atmel Studio and some sort agreement with Microsoft - since at onset, it circumvented the pricey license for Visual Studio Pro, at least for Atmel targets.

That may seem in discord with Microsoft Visual Studio Community which is also free but not Atmel-specific

 

 

 

Tags:

Tools, Atmel Studio (AVR-related)
Last Edited: Sat. Nov 29, 2014 - 06:00 AM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Sat. Nov 29, 2014 - 08:50 PM
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stevech wrote:
With the recent release of (free) Microsoft Visual Studio Community (VSC)

Not heard of that one - now about providing a link so that we know exactly what you're talking about?

 

Quote:
if one can use VSC for an Atmel or non-Atmel target, esp. in the ARM world, would that remove the need for using Atmel Studio?

What Atmel give you with Atmel Studio is a ready-integrated toolset with their particular compiler versions, debugger interfaces, ASF stuff, etc.

 

All the bits exist in open-source form, so it's always been entirely possible to do it all yourself - but by no means trivial...!!

 

surprise

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Sat. Nov 29, 2014 - 08:56 PM
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http://www.visualstudio.com/en-U...

 

Q: Who can use Visual Studio Community? 
A: Here’s how individual developers can use Visual Studio Community:

  • Any individual developer can use Visual Studio Community to create their own free or paid apps.

Here’s how Visual Studio Community can be used in organizations:

  • An unlimited number of users within an organization can use Visual Studio Community for the following scenarios: in a classroom learning environment, for academic research, or for contributing to open source projects.
  • For all other usage scenarios: In non-enterprise organizations, up to 5 users can use Visual Studio Community. In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or > $1 Million US Dollars in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scenarios described above.

For more information, please refer to the Visual Studio Community 2013 License Terms and the Visual Studio Licensing Whitepaper.

So the applicability looks fairly limited? 

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Sat. Nov 29, 2014 - 11:14 PM
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I read this to say, no, it's quite unrestricted

 

Any individual developer can use Visual Studio Community to create their own free or paid apps.

 

Already on the web, I'm reading about people using Community for many kinds of things, even as a good Python dev tool.

 

Visual Micro is running on it, per their web site. That covers AVR and Teensy and other non x86 targets that use GCC invoked from Visual Studio/Community.

 

Last Edited: Sat. Nov 29, 2014 - 11:15 PM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Sun. Nov 30, 2014 - 12:40 AM
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But note that "individual developer" is distinguished from anyone in within any sort of organisation - especially anyone in an "enterprise" organisation...

 

 

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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meolsen
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Posted by meolsen: Tue. Dec 16, 2014 - 09:47 PM
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With the recent release of (free) Microsoft Visual Studio Community (VSC) - is Atmel's position and future with Atmel Studio affected?

No, why should it? 

That is, if one can use VSC for an Atmel or non-Atmel target, esp. in the ARM world, would that remove the need for using Atmel Studio?

But you can't... You can do Visual Micro or similar for arduino, but debug? embedded arm? uc3? advanced debug (beyond printf)? As for the ARM world, I don't see MS coming to the embedded world anytime soon. They do what they know, on application level processors.

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

 

The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.

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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Tue. Dec 16, 2014 - 09:54 PM (Reply to #6)
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meolsen wrote:
... I don't see MS coming to the embedded world anytime soon...

http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/Windows-Developer-Program-for-IoT

 

That is just the start of things to come...

 

EDIT: Changed the link

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 10:50 AM
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meolsen
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Posted by meolsen: Tue. Dec 16, 2014 - 10:27 PM
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That is just the start of things to come...

Hehe, I was guessing that comment would blow back in my face. 

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

 

The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Tue. Dec 16, 2014 - 11:26 PM (Reply to #8)
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just seems almost unfair that Atmel spent $$$ achieving Atmel Stuio 6.x then Microsoft puts VS Community out as free, diminishing Atmel's achievement. I admired Atmel for doing Studio 6 versus what Microchip hasn't done.

 

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ezharkov
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Posted by ezharkov: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 01:35 AM (Reply to #7)
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"That is just the start of things to come..." - OK, what things? I see a header and a footer, and lots of white empty space in the middle. Or am I not supposed to open MS pages with a non-MS browser?

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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 05:19 AM (Reply to #10)
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Thanks for the feedback.  It is currently not displaying correctly in IE either and I reported the problem in site feedback.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 05:27 AM
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VS Community (now free) allows for using GNU/GCC for x86 targets OR GNU/GCC for ARM targets. Atmel Studio is best used for AVR targets due to debugging support.

Big step forward for those that use or would use MS Windows. 

Just noteworthy that VS Community is free for commercial/private use for those that elect to use it for large or small embedded target MCU cores.

 

 

 

 

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 05:28 AM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 09:21 AM (Reply to #12)
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stevech wrote:
Atmel Studio is best used for AVR targets due to debugging support.

And Atmel's ARMs!

 

Quote:
VS Community is free for commercial/private use

That's limited commercial use - see above.

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 09:24 AM (Reply to #9)
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stevech wrote:
Atmel spent $$$ achieving Atmel Stuio 6.x then Microsoft puts VS Community out as free, diminishing Atmel's achievement.

How so?

 

There have been free VS editions for years.

 

What Atmel gives you in Studio is the ARM/AVR toolchain integrations, debugging, programming, simulation, ASF wizards, etc - I don't see that VS Community diminishes any of that?

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 10:56 AM
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@ezharkov, I changed the link in my post above concerning Microsoft embedded.  Sorry, the previous link was for registered users only.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 12:30 PM (Reply to #7)
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larryvc wrote:
 meolsen wrote:

... I don't see MS coming to the embedded world anytime soon...

 

http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/Windows-Developer-Program-for-IoT 

 

That just goes to show how far Microsoft's understanding of "embedded" is from what would be understood by your average AVRFreak - or, in fact, any other embedded microcontroller developer!

 

The thing MS are pushing there uses the "Intel® Galileo Gen 2 board":

Quote:

Key features

  • Intel® Quark™ SoC X1000 application processor, a 32-bit, single-core, single-thread, Intel® Pentium® processor instruction set architecture (ISA)-compatible, operating at speeds up to 400 MHz.
  • Support for a wide range of industry standard I/O interfaces, including a full-sized mini-PCI Express* slot, 100 Mb Ethernet port, microSD* slot, USB host port, and USB client port.
  • 256 MB DDR3, 512 kb embedded SRAM, 8 MB NOR Flash, and 8 kb EEPROM standard on the board, plus support for microSD card up to 32 GB.

 

http://www.intel.co.uk/content/w...

 

This is clearly not in the land of the humble AVR. Not even the AVR32. Not even the ARM Cortex-M.

 

This is in the land of the Raspberry Pi, Beagle, et al - all Cortex-A stuff...

 

 

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 04:49 PM (Reply to #14)
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The free editions of VS (Express) did not support plugins like Visual Micro.

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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 05:47 PM (Reply to #16)
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awneil wrote:
That just goes to show how far Microsoft's understanding of "embedded" is from what would be understood by your average AVRFreak - or, in fact, any other embedded microcontroller developer!

So I guess you did not see this?

larryvc wrote:
That is just the start of things to come...

 

However, I do not see the demise of Atmel Studio with the concurrent Microsoft software releases.  Atmel Studio still provides the best environment for developing with Atmel's AVR and ARM chip offerings.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 05:58 PM
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mike32217
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Posted by mike32217: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 05:55 PM (Reply to #6)
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meolsen wrote:

I don't see MS coming to the embedded world anytime soon.

uSoft has been working in this field for many years and although it has had different names they continue to dabble.

Happy Trails,

Mike

JaxCoder.com

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 06:28 PM
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The point of this is... The excellent IDE of Visual Studio Community edition (same as PRO)   is now available at no cost and it is today being used by two plugins that use GNU's GCC for ARM, AVR and other non-x86 targets, down to the most humble embedded processor.

Need not be the no-plugin-allowed Express editions.

 

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 06:30 PM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 07:28 PM (Reply to #18)
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larryvc wrote:
So I guess you did not see this?

 

larryvc wrote:

That is just the start of things to come...

Yes, I saw that - and, from that starting (sic) point, I don't see them ever coming anywhere near the (small) microcontroller space.

 

And, really, it isn't even the start - the .NET Compact Framework has been around for years, and runs on significantly more restrained hardware.

 

Quote:
However, I do not see the demise of Atmel Studio with the concurrent Microsoft software releases.

Likewise.

 

Quote:
Atmel Studio still provides the best environment for developing with Atmel's AVR and ARM chip offerings.

I guess "best" is debatable - but it's certainly a pretty good one!

 

 

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 07:57 PM (Reply to #21)
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yeah, I should have given a caveat that VS is the best IDE -- in my experience/opinion!

For what it's worth... I've used the below and subjectively rank as follows:

  1. MS Visual Studio 2013 Community (free) + Visual Micro plugin (free) can use GCC for AVR, ARM, or MS C++ for x86
  2. IAR (best if you use JTAGICE or SWD in a professional setting or complex multi-file project)
  3. VisualGDB (new in 2014) A plugin for (free Visual Studio 2013 Community. VisualGDB is not free but is inexpensive. Excellent installation wizard.
  4. Atmel Visual Studio (2010) w/Visual Micro plugin (Now it's essentially same as above) -Uses GCC
  5. Rowley - Uses GCC
  6. Keil (ARM-centric) (within mbed)
  7. Code::Blocks has great potential but so far unable to get running on Windows.
  8. emIDE - seemingly defunct descendent of Code::Blocks
  9. eclipse for GCC ARM (if you have *lots* of patience and time to fight with it)
  10. Atollic TrueStudio (eclipse + GCC + project). Costly alternative to Rowley.
  11. CooCox CoIDE - buggy. Scary. Free. Hard for English-speakers. Uses GCC.
  12. Arduino IDE. Popular with liberal arts majors and casual hobbyists; barely an IDE. Unique build strategy and abstractions. Has ARM variant.

 

Omitted ImageCraft and Mikroe as they lack ANSI C and/or C++

 

 

 

 

 

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 08:39 PM
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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 08:18 PM (Reply to #21)
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awneil wrote:

larryvc wrote:
Atmel Studio still provides the best environment for developing with Atmel's AVR and ARM chip offerings.

 

I guess "best" is debatable - but it's certainly a pretty good one!

 

Have to keep up the good PR!

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 08:20 PM
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Bronze Markjs
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Posted by js: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 09:47 PM
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I don't use AS6 because it's a bloatware thanks to VS, if I'm forced to use other MS products apart from the rotten OS I will no longer work with electronics and start a potato farm instead! angry

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 11:11 PM
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Bloatware - not.

Lauches in about 3 seconds on my middle of the road PC (SSD helps all programs launch faster).

 

The anti-IDE people cause me to think back 25 years ago when I argued with a Unix era guy staunchly opposed to using a new-fangled mouse. He'd say "Why do I need that stupid thing!"

I say, to Makefiles: "Why do I need that stupid thing!"

And the IDEs with automatic code completion, function param lookups automated, refactoring, etc. How convenient!

 

 

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 17, 2014 - 11:12 PM
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Simonetta
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Posted by Simonetta: Thu. Dec 18, 2014 - 12:13 AM
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I have been going a few rounds with Atmel Studio 6 for about a month now.   I still have gotten nowhere.   Even with the written tutorials and downloaded YouTube video tutorials, I can't understand how to compile and load even a simple 'hello, world' C program.

 

  I use AVR assembler daily and Arduino IDE about once a week.  But Arduino's IDE can only work with Mega328P and the Mega2560 devices.  I know, some people have been able to get Arduino working on other devices like the Tiny85, but not me.  I would like to start using C language on the Tiny1634 and other devices because my programs are getting too complex for assembler.  And Arduino's code takes 20-25K just to do the same set of routines that I can do in assembler in 3-8K bytes of program flash memory.

 

  Other AVR freaks have suggested using Studio 4, but its drivers won't load on my PC when Studio 6 has been previously loaded.  I don't want to remove Studio 6 because someday I'd like to use modern ICE debugging tools that (I believe) only work on Studio 6.

 

But Studio 6 is a monster.  Incomprehensible.  Way-way over-engineered.  Atmel should separate out the various sections for each device family and make them available as stand-alone and much smaller programs.  One program for the AVR; one for the SAM; one for XMEGA, another for the ARM, etc...    They should make a small easy-to-use, easy-to-understand, fast to load IDE  for WinAVR C that is a little bit better than the Arduino IDE and works on most Tiny and Mega AVRs using Dragons or ICE BASIC.   Then they should sell the monster Studio 6 to the professional $50-$80K per year embedded developers for a nominal $10-50 charge.

 

Until that day which will unlikely never come, I will continue to try to make quality functional and well-documented small 'plug-and-play' software module blocks in AVR assembler.  My first real quality assembler (for the Commodore 64) was about 5K bytes in size.  Studio 6 is about 800 megabytes in size.  What is going on?

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Thu. Dec 18, 2014 - 12:15 AM (Reply to #26)
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Simonetta wrote:

I have been going a few rounds with Atmel Studio 6 for about a month now.   I still have gotten nowhere.   Even with the written tutorials and downloaded YouTube video tutorials, I can't understand how to compile and load even a simple 'hello, world' C program.

 

  I use AVR assembler daily and Arduino IDE about once a week.  But Arduino's IDE can only work with Mega328P and the Mega2560 devices.  I know, some people have been able to get Arduino working on other devices like the Tiny85, but not me.  I would like to start using C language on the Tiny1634 and other devices because my programs are getting too complex for assembler.  And Arduino's code takes 20-25K just to do the same set of routines that I can do in assembler in 3-8K bytes of program flash memory.

 

  Other AVR freaks have suggested using Studio 4, but its drivers won't load on my PC when Studio 6 has been previously loaded.  I don't want to remove Studio 6 because someday I'd like to use modern ICE debugging tools that (I believe) only work on Studio 6.

 

But Studio 6 is a monster.  Incomprehensible.  Way-way over-engineered.  Atmel should separate out the various sections for each device family and make them available as stand-alone and much smaller programs.  One program for the AVR; one for the SAM; one for XMEGA, another for the ARM, etc...    They should make a small easy-to-use, easy-to-understand, fast to load IDE  for WinAVR C that is a little bit better than the Arduino IDE and works on most Tiny and Mega AVRs using Dragons or ICE BASIC.   Then they should sell the monster Studio 6 to the professional $50-$80K per year embedded developers for a nominal $10-50 charge.

 

Until that day which will unlikely never come, I will continue to try to make quality functional and well-documented small 'plug-and-play' software module blocks in AVR assembler.  My first real quality assembler (for the Commodore 64) was about 5K bytes in size.  Studio 6 is about 800 megabytes in size.  What is going on?

Are you using the free visual micro plug-in? That makes it trivial. Just install and go. No twiddling.

 

Last Edited: Thu. Dec 18, 2014 - 12:16 AM
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Bronze Markjs
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Posted by js: Thu. Dec 18, 2014 - 05:13 AM
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Lauches in about 3 seconds

It takes up to 2 minutes on my dual core HP win7 64 bit 2.7GHz 6GB ram machine,  maybe around 30 second the 2nd time around.

 

AS4.18 less than 5 seconds.

SSD helps

Only with bloatware.... wink

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www.ampertronics.com.au

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Posted by stevech: Thu. Dec 18, 2014 - 06:08 AM
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~4 seconds: Atmel Studio 6.2 (which is Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 in Atmel clothing) launches in about same time here. Including the VisualMicro plug-in.

~2 seconds: Microsoft Visual Studio 2013 Community (free) launches faster, in 2 seconds or so, including the VisualGDB plugin which is excellent, for non-x86 targets.

 

Your report of 2 minutes - I've never seen these IDEs launch at those glacial speeds. Even without the SSD, the times go up of course, but not anywhere like 2 minutes!

 

SSD is great. And prices are down a lot now. I used a 128GB Samsung SSD for a couple of years. I make a habit of putting seldom used stuff on my small  NAS - like downloads, DVD ISO images, video, music).

Doing more consulting work these days, I swapped out (in 10 minutes) the 128GB for a 500GB. Got good price on Samsung 500GB - $180; Newegg sale.  Prices coming down nicely.

 

Compile/build-times of elaborate projects is reduced a lot with an SSD.

 

After 2 years of use of the 128GB, no glitches and it was still only about 1/2 full. My NAS has 1TB on it. Mostly backups and downloads, plus encrypted financial files (Safehouse Software).

 

 

Last Edited: Thu. Dec 18, 2014 - 06:17 AM
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Posted by westfw: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 09:37 AM
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Your report of 2 minutes - I've never seen these IDEs launch at those glacial speeds.

About 1:10 to get past the splash screen (AS6.1) here on a modest WXP VM.  And another 10 or 20 seconds to tell me that there are updates.

The Arduino IDE launches in about 8 seconds on the same system, BTW.

AS only takes about 20 or 30 seconds the second time (and arduino goes down to about 2s.)

Keil and Imagecaft are nice and quick.  TI's CCS5, Cypress PSOC Creator 3, Apple XCode, MPLab, and CooCox CoIDE are slower (~30s), but not nearly so slow as AS6.  AS6 is by far the slowest of any IDE I've got installed anywhere.  It's depressing :-(  (now, normally I use EMACS+Make+etags+mkid, so I don't much care...)

 

Perhaps there is some subtle bug that causes this poor performance on some (many?) systems?  No one seems to be fixing it, though.  Just stating that they don't see the problem...   Maybe I should clean up that VM and try installing 6.2 from scratch?

 

 

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Posted by stevech: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 04:53 PM
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I can only say... I've run Atmel Visual Studio on my desktop, my laptop, and one other computer here.

None have the long launch time you complain of.

 

But I'm not running it in a virtual machine as you are.

 

Enjoy EMACS + Make !!!

 

 

Last Edited: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 05:25 PM
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Posted by david.prentice: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 05:53 PM
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My laptop always takes more than 2 minutes to start from warm and generally pops up messages about "Waiting for an operation to complete"

 

A subsequent re-start is only about 40 seconds.

 

Any form of running AS6 gives you the VisualMicro BUY-ME dialog.

 

I am not timing this from "switch-on" from cold in the morning.     Obviously that takes 10 minutes or so.

 

Running Rowley for AVR takes about 13 seconds.

Running Rowley for ARM takes about 25 seconds.

Running Keil for ARM takes about 19 seconds.

 

Yes,   AS6 is more manageable on a fast Desktop PC.    I always have VAssistX disabled.     I dread to think what that would be like.

 

Of course,   Rowley or Keil are quite happy to give edit-assistance without killing the PC stone dead.

 

David.

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Posted by stevech: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:01 PM
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10 minutes to boot?

You should expect what I get: 7 seconds, cold start, 3 seconds warm start from sleep.

see http://www.vocabulary.com/dictio... cheeky

 

VisualMicro is 100% free. For Atmel Studio and for Visual Studio Community edition.  The optional non-hardware-based debugger is $30.

Last Edited: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:08 PM
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Posted by larryvc: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:01 PM (Reply to #32)
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david.prentice wrote:

My laptop always takes more than 2 minutes to start from warm and generally pops up messages about "Waiting for an operation to complete"

 

I am not timing this from "switch-on" from cold in the morning.     Obviously that takes 10 minutes or so.

 

Good golly David, it's time to for you to get a new laptop.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

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"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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Bronze Markdavid.prentice
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Posted by david.prentice: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:34 PM
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I am well aware that it is not the fastest laptop.

 

If AS4, Keil or Rowley were to be slow,    I would buy a new laptop straightaway.

 

Likewise,   if any other Windoze applications were noticeably slow,    I would upgrade.

Yes,   it takes a long time to start up in the morning.    10 minutes was more of an estimate for 'if I tried to start AS6 at the beginning of the day'.

 

AS6 just hold the prize for "un-usability".

 

David.

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Posted by stevech: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:38 PM (Reply to #35)
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david.prentice wrote:

I am well aware that it is not the fastest laptop.

 

If AS4, Keil or Rowley were to be slow,    I would buy a new laptop straightaway.

 

Likewise,   if any other Windoze applications were noticeably slow,    I would upgrade.

Yes,   it takes a long time to start up in the morning.    10 minutes was more of an estimate for 'if I tried to start AS6 at the beginning of the day'.

 

AS6 just hold the prize for "un-usability".

 

David.

"not the fastest laptop"? 10 minutes to boot? Absurd.

 

I like AS6.2.  Very good. Helps my productivity a lot. Due to its use of Visual Studio and its intuitext, code completion, function params in pop-up, etc. But it's not EMACS crying

The prize for un-usability is your prize! Not mine, nor that of the thousands using it. And with VisualMicro it's much better.

 

Last Edited: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:40 PM
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Bronze Markdavid.prentice
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Posted by david.prentice: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:55 PM
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What,   you mean that Rowley and Keil should run at a snail's pace.    And the debugger connection timeout regularly.

 

I understand from your other posts that you are familiar with IAR, Keil and Rowley.    So you must be aware of the performance 'features' of AS6 in comparison.

 

David.

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Posted by stevech: Sat. Dec 20, 2014 - 12:47 AM (Reply to #37)
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I have no complaints with AS6.2 in comparison. None. I don't see a speed difference with it and the other IDEs, except eclipse which I dislike.

IAR is my main ARM  tool and it is great, including SWD debugging.

AS6.2 is my tool for AVR and Teensy.

These, Rowley, Keil don't run at a snail's pace.

 

David, please... get a new computer. My desktop is a DIY with all premium quality components and cost $500 or so.  Then I added the 128GB SSD (these are cheap now). 2 years later I went to a 500GB SSD.

Got MS windows for this and another PC,  non-OEM license,  (can be moved to other PCs) is from a company here in Seattle that has a lot of licenses to sell.

 

 

Last Edited: Sat. Dec 20, 2014 - 12:49 AM
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Posted by westfw: Sat. Dec 20, 2014 - 08:55 AM
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What about this one:

It takes up to 2 minutes on my dual core HP win7 64 bit 2.7GHz 6GB ram machine

That seems like a relatively modern machine...

Would anyone else like to chime in with time/config info from their machines?  I'm getting really curious as to whether this is some weird incompatibility rather than mere bloat...

 

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Bronze Markdavid.prentice
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Posted by david.prentice: Sat. Dec 20, 2014 - 02:44 PM
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My laptop is Vista-32:     CPU=T4200   dual-core @ 2GHz with 4GB of RAM

My desktop is Win7-64:   CPU=i5-2320 quad-core @ 3GHz with 8GB of RAM

 

I would expect the laptop to go slower than the desktop.    However,  not much slower.    I would not call it obsolete (yet)

 

As I said earlier,   if other similar IDEs can run successfully on the laptop,    I don't see why I should replace it yet.

More importantly,   I would guess that students in India, China, Africa,  ... will probably have older, slower PCs.

 

There is either something seriously wrong with my Vista-32 laptop or the AS6.2 installation is not very 'efficient'.

The desktop can run AS6.2 reasonably smoothly.    Again it is noticeably clunkier than Keil, IAR, Rowley, ...

 

David.

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