Long-range sub-1G Zigbee modules available?

Log in or register to post comments
Go To Last Post
12 posts / 0 new
Author
Message
Baycity
Baycity's picture
Level: Rookie
Joined: Thu. Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 44 View posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
#1
Posted by Baycity: Tue. Jan 3, 2012 - 10:03 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I am looking for a long-range sub-1G mesh solution. I was playing with the Zigbit900 and found the stack and particulary the AT interface versarile, yet easy to use.
My only problem is that those modules are only +11dBm which is just not enough for the range I need

Does anyone know an off-the-shelf module that is capable of taking the Atmel stack with no or minor changes but comes with a 100mW+ amp and probably an LNA on the receiver side? Also, I need to cover 921...928MHz.
I would assume that Atmel would allow to use their stack on non-Atmel modules as long as their chipset is used.

Thanks, BC

Tags:

Wireless, General Wireless Discussions
Last Edited: Fri. Oct 16, 2015 - 02:25 PM
Top
gchapman
gchapman's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Tue. Jan 9, 2007
Posts: 13155 View posts
Location: Clay County, Texas, u.S.A.
Posted by gchapman: Tue. Jan 3, 2012 - 11:56 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

2.4GHz only:
http://www.dresden-elektronik.de/shop/prod138.html

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Top
gchapman
gchapman's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Tue. Jan 9, 2007
Posts: 13155 View posts
Location: Clay County, Texas, u.S.A.
Posted by gchapman: Wed. Jan 4, 2012 - 02:52 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

900MHz, 24dBm transmit power:
http://www.lsr.com/products/radio_modules/900_MHz/siflex-02.aspx

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Top
Baycity
Baycity's picture
Level: Rookie
Joined: Thu. Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 44 View posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted by Baycity: Thu. Jan 5, 2012 - 01:20 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

gchapman wrote:
900MHz, 24dBm transmit power:
http://www.lsr.com/products/radio_modules/900_MHz/siflex-02.aspx

Yepp, found that one and it looks brilliant in terms of hardware. But when I asked about the Zigbee stack which is actually mentioned in thir datasheet, I got:
"We have a 802.15.4 Porting Guide on our website, however we don't have anything in regards to porting for a ZigBee stack"

Means: I have to port it myself. I do work with AVR chips quite a bit but porting a stack for a commercial product would kill the project.

Thanks anyway, BC

Top
gchapman
gchapman's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Tue. Jan 9, 2007
Posts: 13155 View posts
Location: Clay County, Texas, u.S.A.
Posted by gchapman: Thu. Jan 5, 2012 - 06:04 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

It's kinda common to see "large" Yagi antennas about.
Have you considered Yagi antennas at both ends?
Would a relay work?

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Top
gchapman
gchapman's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Tue. Jan 9, 2007
Posts: 13155 View posts
Location: Clay County, Texas, u.S.A.
Posted by gchapman: Thu. Jan 5, 2012 - 07:16 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Not what you want to hear but http://valhalla-wireless.com/vwr/.

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Top
Baycity
Baycity's picture
Level: Rookie
Joined: Thu. Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 44 View posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted by Baycity: Mon. Feb 13, 2012 - 10:58 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well, looks like a nice product. But you're right, I'm after a module to integrate into my devices.
And looking at their 20km range, it is probably a bvit over the top, 100-500mW would be sufficient, looks to me they blast out at least 1W!

Top
ka7ehk
ka7ehk's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Fri. Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 21791 View posts
Location: Tangent, OR, USA
Posted by ka7ehk: Mon. Feb 13, 2012 - 11:49 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

20km is not reasonable for unlicensed hardware. The FCC specifically limits field strength (which combines transmit power and antenna gain).

In my paying job, I use non-Zigbee hardware made by Campbell Scientific. It has a range of about 7mi (about 12 km) with about 2W into 5 element yagi antennas on 910MHz. This is licensed frequency hopping spread spectrum equipment.

So, I do not think that you will get anywhere close to 20km with 500mW.

Data-Linc offers long-range wireless ethernet replacement links that they say is good for 10 miles at 2.4GHz.

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

Top
gchapman
gchapman's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Tue. Jan 9, 2007
Posts: 13155 View posts
Location: Clay County, Texas, u.S.A.
Posted by gchapman: Tue. Feb 14, 2012 - 12:54 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Not off-the-shelf but do-able: Texas Instruments Design Note DN036
"CC1101+CC1190 600 kbps Data Rate, +19 dBm Transmit Power without FHSS in 902-928 MHz Frequency Band" by Sverre Hellan.
Combine an Atmel transceiver with a TI CC1190?
CC1101 is shown in TI 6LoWPAN, but I did not search a lot for a stack.

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Top
stevech
stevech's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Tue. Dec 18, 2001
Posts: 6119 View posts
Posted by stevech: Tue. Feb 14, 2012 - 08:55 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Baycity wrote:

Does anyone know an off-the-shelf module that is capable of taking the Atmel stack with no or minor changes but comes with a 100mW+ amp and probably an LNA on the receiver side? Also, I need to cover 921...928MHz.
I would assume that Atmel would allow to use their stack on non-Atmel modules as long as their chipset is used.

Thanks, BC


PM me

Top
Baycity
Baycity's picture
Level: Rookie
Joined: Thu. Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 44 View posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted by Baycity: Mon. May 14, 2012 - 05:41 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

ka7ehk wrote:
20km is not reasonable for unlicensed hardware. The FCC specifically limits field strength (which combines transmit power and antenna gain).

In my paying job, I use non-Zigbee hardware made by Campbell Scientific. It has a range of about 7mi (about 12 km) with about 2W into 5 element yagi antennas on 910MHz. This is licensed frequency hopping spread spectrum equipment.

So, I do not think that you will get anywhere close to 20km with 500mW.

Data-Linc offers long-range wireless ethernet replacement links that they say is good for 10 miles at 2.4GHz.

Jim

Hi Jim,

A range of 2..4km would be absolutely fine - as long as the protocol supports mesh networking.
My problem will be more the frequency range: I can only use 921..928MHz due to regulations here (non-US)

Cheers, BC

Top
stevech
stevech's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Tue. Dec 18, 2001
Posts: 6119 View posts
Posted by stevech: Mon. May 14, 2012 - 05:48 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'd look hard at Digi's DigiMesh for the ISM band. In the US it's 902-928MHz. ZigBee as a meshing protocol has few viable products for that band, and fewer yet with 500mW or more. Of course, range is all about antenna gain combined with using the lowest possible data rate and channel bandwidth, and this, versus a goal of using an IEEE standard like 802.15.4's sub-GHz standard.

The SmartGrid and wireless meter vendors are using the band, but they shun standards for greedy reasons.

For point to point or point to multipoint (star) there are lots of SCADA like products that can do this - such as GE and Digi and many more. But many Km with meshing is pushing the state of the art for low cost. Repeaters that are immobile and have fixed primary/secondary neighbor forwarding are commonplace, but a self-forming, self-healing mesh at these ranges is hard. DoD does it, with megamoney radios.

I've done 6 miles over water in that band, with a 2MHz channel width and an aggressive 1Mbps data rate. Using proprietary frequency hopping. One end had to be 150 ft. in the air with an 8dBi yagi, and the other end (a 30' patrol boat) had a 3dBi omni. Can't use more gain on the boat due to rolling, even an omni.

I've also used Digi's proprietary hopper that can do point to multipoint star and repeater, at 1Watt. Works well, low cost.

So meshing is hard at these distances with unlicensed band power and without getting locked into a flaky vendor for the long term.

Top