KAVRCalc Discussion Thread

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I've uploaded a new version of KAVRCalc to http://b9.com/elect/avr/kavrcalc/ . I believe I added everyones' requests, except for the request of generating code.

Some people have had difficulty starting the program on their systems, I presume secondary to some missing DLL. I also uploaded a debug version for those people who encounter trouble. If one has trouble starting the program on their system, please download and test the debug version and post a follow-up.

Bug reports and feature requests are welcome. When, I'm done with the calculator portion, I'll be adding an AVR part browser in anticipation of eventually adding a code generator.

Also, I'm considering purchasing the Mac OS X version of the development software so I can publish a Mac version. If anyone is interested in a Mac version, please let me know so I can gauge interest on that platform.

Edit: Change subject title

Attachment(s): 

Last Edited: Fri. Jan 18, 2008 - 06:46 PM
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I don't quite understand the need for baud rate calculation, but hey, if it makes someone happy... :)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Well, John, that was my thought, too. I didn't need it, but someone ask for it and it wasn't too hard to add.

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Looks great... I can only find 2 things I might need soon.. I want to push a 20mhz avr and the next magic freq is 11.059 x 2, so that would be a good entry in the clock table, and 230 and 460kbps rates for talking to xports.

Imagecraft compiler user

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Just wondering out loud, would it be worthwhile to have a warning about new AVR's running on internal RC oscillator at 1MHz? Of course this warning would not apply to older (very old) AVR models.

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bobgardner wrote:
Looks great... I can only find 2 things I might need soon.. I want to push a 20mhz avr and the next magic freq is 11.059 x 2, so that would be a good entry in the clock table, and 230 and 460kbps rates for talking to xports.
Sure, Bob, I'll add those to the next release. Also, keep in mind that you can enter any arbitrary frequency or baud rate into the input areas.

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SteveN wrote:
Just wondering out loud, would it be worthwhile to have a warning about new AVR's running on internal RC oscillator at 1MHz? Of course this warning would not apply to older (very old) AVR models.
So, Steve, you're talking about the CLKDIV8 fuse? I'm not quite sure how the warning is apt as I include a few clock frequencies above where all AVR's can currently specified to operate, like Bob's 22.1184MHz frequency. Perhaps your suggestion would be more appropriate for a fuse calculator (or my upcoming AVR parts browser).

Can you explain more about where you think the warning would be appropriate in the calculator display? Or, are you thinking of having a FAQ popup window (like the About popup) with some common important statements.

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The result text is pretty hard to read on my system. The previous version had black text in a white box, but now it's kinda beige-ish text against the background color. I think we lost something in the translation. :)

Stu

Engineering seems to boil down to: Cheap. Fast. Good. Choose two. Sometimes choose only one.

Newbie? Be sure to read the thread Newbie? Start here!

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I was just thinking about the many (although not too many recently I think) problems we see here where people are not aware their AVR is running on the internal RC oscillator at 1MHz. They then try to get a USART application to run at such and such BAUD rate at such and such clock frequency (other than 1MHz) and wonder why they get garbage or nothing.

I was thinking of a note in parenthesis somewhere in your "CLOCK" section. Something like: "(Note: check device fuse settings for frequencies other than 1MHz)".

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stu_san wrote:
The result text is pretty hard to read on my system. The previous version had black text in a white box, but now it's kinda beige-ish text against the background color. I think we lost something in the translation. :)
Yes, Stu, I'm aware of the change in color. I'm sorry to hear thtat it is hard to read on your system. I made the change so the background color of the computations will match the background color of the application. The only way I found so far was to make the computations "disabled" which changed the foreground color to a different shade of gray. I'll see if I can improve the appearance in future releases.

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SteveN wrote:
I was thinking of a note in parenthesis somewhere in your "CLOCK" section. Something like: "(Note: check device fuse settings for frequencies other than 1MHz)".
Thanks for the additional explanation, Steve. Your idea has merit. I'll look to incorporate your suggestion in a future release.

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I uploaded version 1.6 with a fix to a title, improved About window, and Bob's clock and baud requests.

Linux version now available again.

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kmr wrote:
I've uploaded a new version of KAVRCalc to http://b9.com/elect/avr/kavrcalc/ . I believe I added everyones' requests, except for the request of generating code.
The background colors now all match up but as someone else pointed out the text is a too light a gray to be readable. Why not simply change the text foreground color to black to match the text labels?

I asked for the numbers in two clock speed fields to be the same (one had 1 and the other had 1.0). Now all the numbers in one field have 6 decimal places and the other has 5 decimal places. This is still not consistent and I think less readable now. Each field should use the same list of numbers such as 1.0, 1.8432, 2.0, 2.4576 etc.

I still like my tabbed panes idea but if you don't, you could clean up the layout a little by moving the Watchdog area to be in the top right above the Timer Calculator.

--Mike

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mikeperks wrote:
The background colors now all match up but as someone else pointed out the text is a too light a gray to be readable. Why not simply change the text foreground color to black to match the text labels?
Because when I change the foreground text color, the background text color change so it does not match. I've not yet found a work-around for this.
Quote:
I asked for the numbers in two clock speed fields to be the same (one had 1 and the other had 1.0). Now all the numbers in one field have 6 decimal places and the other has 5 decimal places.
The clock speeds should all have 6 decimal places now and they do on my review. What clock speeds do you see that have 5 decimal places? Are you referring to a different field in the "Acceptable Common Clocks?"
Quote:
This is still not consistent and I think less readable now. Each field should use the same list of numbers such as 1.0, 1.8432, 2.0, 2.4576 etc.
I thought what you didn't like was that different clock speeds had different number of decimal places. I can make the "Acceptable Common Clocks" have 6 decimal places so everything is consistent.
Quote:
I still like my tabbed panes idea but if you don't, you could clean up the layout a little by moving the Watchdog area to be in the top right above the Timer Calculator.
I live tabbed panes quite fine. As previously mentioned, I have plans to use tabbed panes, but to add them for non-noncalculator functions. Yes, I did consider moving the watchdog calculator to that corner, I think it is a good idea.

Thanks for your suggestions.

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Thanks for adding the hex to string to binary feature!

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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WoW. I've never seen a Software Change Request impemented and released with overnight turnaround. Never. Ever. If you were in the programmer's union, the shop boss would send Tiny over with the baseball bat to slow you down a little.

Imagecraft compiler user

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kmr wrote:
mikeperks wrote:
I asked for the numbers in two clock speed fields to be the same (one had 1 and the other had 1.0). Now all the numbers in one field have 6 decimal places and the other has 5 decimal places.
The clock speeds should all have 6 decimal places now and they do on my review. What clock speeds do you see that have 5 decimal places? Are you referring to a different field in the "Acceptable Common Clocks?"

Yes exactly. I have been referring to the two fields, not the values in the fields. The acceptable clocks field has 5 decimal places.

So I'm suggesting you go back to what you had and just make the same value have the same number of decimal places. The number of decimal places may vary by value (e.g. 1.0 and 1.8432) but it is consistent, and familiar to everyone. The value 1.843200 is a little harder to read than 1.8432.

I think you have written a good application and it can be very useful. Great job !!

--Mike

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bobgardner wrote:
WoW. I've never seen a Software Change Request impemented and released with overnight turnaround. Never. Ever. If you were in the programmer's union, the shop boss would send Tiny over with the baseball bat to slow you down a little.
:) Very funny, Bob! To be fair, your change required less than 1 minute of editing, so I can't take much credit except being responsive to your good suggestion.

Edit: Why is it that people named Tiny are usually not as small as their name replies. I thought of that one day while a posting from Smiley where he mentioned he almost cracked his face getting a bit of smile on camera.

Last Edited: Fri. Jan 18, 2008 - 08:34 PM
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Thanks for the additional information, Mike. It'd be simple to add a filter to remove trailing zeros and use the same filter for both fields.

But, I do wonder about your original suggestion. Didn't your suggestion come prior to the "Acceptable Common Clocks" subsection? In any case, I was focused only one the Clock selection section -- but having those two fields be the same is a good idea. The only significant disadvantage of differing number of decimal points in "Acceptable Common Clocks" is that the error percentage will no longer line up which also has a decreased readability issue. But, perhaps people would have that number not be aligned rather than trailing decimal zeros.

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daqq wrote:
Thanks for adding the hex to string to binary feature!
You're very welcome, David. I hope it comes in handy for you -- thanks for the suggestion.

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Kevin,

My issue has been resolved by bringing home the unzipped .exe (using PowerArchiver, I think) and it works fine on my XP machine. It now appears that unzipping it with WinRAR was the problem.

Nice job.

Dave

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Kevin,

It's really a great piece of software. The only problem I have had is that I couldn't resize the window. I am using linux (by the way, the executive file seems to be a bit bulky, especially, that you depend on an external library). My screen is just 1024 x 768 big (or small), so the bottom of the calculator disappears under my task bar. Can you fix that? I would be very sorry, if I couldn't use it just because of this small glitch.
Cheers,
Zoltan

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Davef, that's interesting. Are you are testing the .exe (unzipped by two different unzippers) on two different machines? Or, was it your home XP machine that it previously did not work on and now does? If the latter is true, would you be able to compare the 2 .exe files for number of bytes and md5sum? If this is truly an unzip issue, then maybe I have an isse with my zip file creation program. Thanks for the report.

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zoltanvoros wrote:
It's really a great piece of software. The only problem I have had is that I couldn't resize the window. I am using linux (by the way, the executive file seems to be a bit bulky, especially, that you depend on an external library). My screen is just 1024 x 768 big (or small), so the bottom of the calculator disappears under my task bar. Can you fix that? I would be very sorry, if I couldn't use it just because of this small glitch.
Thanks for the linux report, Zoltan. Yes, it is a bit bulky, mostly from bundling Motif libraries into a static executable as well as including debugging information (to assist in the previous reports of people having trouble with the linux version)

As for the size, the next version (at this point) will have a shorter window because of moving the watchdog section as Michael recommended. But, I noticed the motif (linux) version is a larger window than the microsoft windows version. The motif version has taller lines of text and extra spacing between text lines compared to the windows version.

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Quote:
I want to push a 20mhz avr and the next magic freq is 11.059 x 2
There is the 18.42 MHz magic frequency...and that would keep you within specs...you old reckless speed freak teenager... :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Staying within specs, John? Heh, what adventure is there in that!

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I uploaded version 1.7. No new features, but layout and number formatting as suggested by Michael. Michael, did I get the formatting as you'd like?

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Nitpick time: When reentering a number into the "desired timing" text box, I accidentaly put ".0000" there. The program crashed. The same thing happened when I entered "0". Everywhere else when I enter zero, the program is OK.

Version 1.6
[/nitpicking]

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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I think you and I have a bit different concept of nitpicking, David. An application crash due to user input, no matter how innocently or devilishly constructed, is a bug of great importance. I thought I got all the division by zero errors caught, but I missed that one. Thanks very much for the report. Do try to break the program in whatever way you can, such exercises help exorcise the bugs. Again, thanks for the report.

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OK, so another one:
When I enter a <0 (minus) value into the Decimal text box it gives out a bit of gibberish on the hex outputs.
For instance, a number -123456 gives these hex results:
Hex Integer: 00 -1 E2 40
IEEE 32-bit: -3 80 EE 00 0

Your program helped me today, as I needed to set the timer up for 8ms intervals! Thanks!

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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kmr wrote:
I uploaded version 1.7. No new features, but layout and number formatting as suggested by Michael. Michael, did I get the formatting as you'd like?

I tried 1.7. The number formatting is now like what I suggested and I think you agree it looks better. The watchdog panel fits nicely in its new slot (until you add a tabbed pane).

However there are a few remaining nits that I would like to point out:

  1. The acceptable common clocks does not have a frequency of 1 MHz whereas the Clock does.
  2. It seems like for whatever reason you are calculating the acceptable common clocks frequency because there is a rounding error with 18.431999. The usual way to do this is have two arrays (one with the actual numbers and one with the text values)
  3. Are people really using non-divisible clock speeds like 3.579545 MHz with AVRs? I'm surprised to see these values and I would remove them
  4. Something weird is happening to the clock frequency field which I think is leftover code. After clicking on the acceptable common clocks list, the clock frequency field at the top left changes to show the number in that field with 6 significant digits i.e. 8 is redrawn as 8.000000.
  5. The text color in the acceptable common clocks is blue which is not used anywhere else. You might want to change it to match the other output text color (currently light gray). Or you could change the output text color to blue I guess.

--Mike

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daqq wrote:
When I enter a <0 (minus) value into the Decimal text box it gives out a bit of gibberish on the hex outputs.
Cool report, I haven't tested it with negative values after I added to byte separation spaces. I'll check it out and fix it up.
Quote:
Your program helped me today, as I needed to set the timer up for 8ms intervals! Thanks!
Neat, glad to hear that you have found the application useful!

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mikeperks wrote:
However there are a few remaining nits that I would like to point out
Thanks for the feedback and the clock formatting. I agree with your other points and appreciate the suggestions while I work on the next version.

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mikeperks wrote:
The acceptable common clocks does not have a frequency of 1 MHz whereas the Clock does.
The list of clock frequencies is the same for two fields. I see 1 MHz when I increase the maximum baud error (increase to 99% to see all clocks).

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mikeperks wrote:
Are people really using non-divisible clock speeds like 3.579545 MHz with AVRs? I'm surprised to see these values and I would remove them
I don't know if people are using that crystal with AVR's, but since it's a common crystal like 4.433618MHz (color burst frequencies for NTSC and PAL), I thought I'd include them.

But, I'm glad to remove them. Since people can enter an arbitrary frequency, there's no need to have selectable anything but common frequencies. Along that same thinking, it'd make some sense to remove frequencies above 20MHz since they are not used with AVR's (excepting for that overclocking 22.1184 request).

Edit: At this time, I have the below list of frequencies to keep and remove. Anyone who has an opinion of what frequencies they'd like, let me know.

Keep: "0.032768" "1.0" "1.8432" "2.0" "3.2768" "4.0"
  "7.3728" "8.0" "9.216" "10.0" "11.0592" "12.0" 
  "14.7456" "16.0" "18.432" "20.0" "22.1184"

Remove: "2.4576" "3.579545" "3.6864" "4.433618"
  "4.608" "4.9152" "5.0688" "6.0" "6.144" 
  "14.31818" "32.768" "40"
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Hey kmr,

I was wondering what programming package are you using to built your kavrcalc software?

Thanks
Shane

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Hi Shane, I'm using my favorite programming language, ANSI Common Lisp. While there are free, open-source versions of Lisp available (some with graphical user interface tools), I'm using the commercial LispWorks ( http://www.lispworks.com ), because if offers graphical user interface that is compatable across Windows, Linux, and OS X.

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I've uploaded version 1.8 to http://www.b9.com/elect/avr/kavr...

From the ChangeLog:

Version 1.8 (Jan 19, 2008)
	- Fix error when "Request Timing" is 0
	- Don't display OCRA/OCRB frequencies when input is blank
	- Remove uncommon clock frequencies
	- Fix error in 32-bit Number Calculator when entering negative decimal
	- Improve number formatting in Acceptable Common Clocks
	- Change visual display of computed values for greater readability
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kmr wrote:
mikeperks wrote:
However there are a few remaining nits that I would like to point out
Thanks for the feedback and the clock formatting. I agree with your other points and appreciate the suggestions while I work on the next version.

I can't run it under Ubuntu 7.04, complains about the lack of libXm.so.2. Do I need the Motif (probably Lesstif would work). It does work under Fedora 6 which I think I loaded Lesstif. On Fedora I note the same problem as Zoltan (can't resize, can't access the bottom as it off my window 1024x768).

Thanks

Neil Cherry
Linux Home Automation
Author: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies.

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I can hardly keep up ..... HELP !

I don't know how it is for other users, but these old eyes have difficulty reading the grey results ... and I notice that you fixed that already. :)

But the kavrcalc.zip version 1.8 is having an unexpected end ...

Nard

Edit: with WinZIP and WinXP-built-in unzipper

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Yes, Lesstif would work fine. I built the image with Etch 32-bit, so Ubuntu 7.04 32-bit Intel should work. For 64-bit Linux, you'll need to grab a 32-bit version of the Motif/Lesstif library. Yes, there is no resizing on the main frame and the Motif version has a larger frame than the Windows version. I'm far from an expert on Motif. Do you know if you can set some X-Window font parameters to reduce the size of the fonts to perhaps shrink the frame so it fits on your screen?

While I can't shrink the frame without removing some components (or going to a tabbed pane approach), I could reorganize the frame to be wider and shorter to fit into shorter displays.

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Plons wrote:
I can hardly keep up ..... HELP !
Sigh, such is the disadvantage of high-level programming languages allowing significant, rapid changes in functionality. One reference: Beating the Averages: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html

Quote:
But the kavrcalc.zip version 1.8 is having an unexpected end ...
It looks like there was a corruption of the zip file on upload. I reuploaded and verified the md5sum's. Sorry about that. Would you mind retrying?

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Quote:
Sigh, such is the disadvantage of high-level programming
:lol:

I will go for the retry NOW

Nard

Edit: works as a charme. And thanks for the better contrast !

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Thanks very much for the report, Nard!

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Hi Kevin,

Great application - really like the inclusion of the ASCII calculator... thanks :D

Only thing I would like to see changed (and it is a really small nitpick !) would be to have the app appear centred in the desktop by default. Currently it appears towards the left and top @ 1920 x 1200.

I know, I know - but my old boss was a stickler for this sort of thing and I guess it sunk in :wink:

{Edit} This is on the XP version btw.

Cheers
Robin

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Quote:
Davef, that's interesting. Are you are testing the .exe (unzipped by two different unzippers) on two different machines? Or, was it your home XP machine that it previously did not work on and now does? If the latter is true, would you be able to compare the 2 .exe files for number of bytes and md5sum? If this is truly an unzip issue, then maybe I have an isse with my zip file creation program. Thanks for the report.

When I unzipped the program on a XP machine using WinRar it didn't work. When I unzipped the program on a Windows2000 machine using PowerArchiver it worked. Then I put the .exe that was unzipped by the Windows2000 machine on to the XP machine and it worked.

BTW, 3.6864MHz is the frequency I use all the time. I thought it was pretty common.

How do I check md5sum?

Dave

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Dave, there's a program here that will do it :

http://www.md5summer.org/

I found that the latest version of Winzip unzipped everything OK.

HTH
Robin

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wobbin_c wrote:
Great application - really like the inclusion of the ASCII calculator... thanks :D
Cool, I'm glad that you like the program. The ASCII calculator was David's idea, so he should get thanks as well.

Quote:
Only thing I would like to see changed (and it is a really small nitpick !) would be to have the app appear centred in the desktop by default. Currently it appears towards the left and top @ 1920 x 1200.
That's an interesting thought. I hadn't heard of that guideline/rule for placing applcations on a desktop. Do you have a reference for that suggestion? I tested a handful of applications on my Vista system and none of them open in the center of the screen. That said, I'd be glad to do it, I just wonder if you can provide some reading material about suggested locations of applications on the desktop.

Thanks again for your comments.

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davef wrote:
BTW, 3.6864MHz is the frequency I use all the time. I thought it was pretty common.
Thanks for the information, Dave. You're right, 3.68664MHz is a useful UART clock rate. I'll put 3.6864MHz back in the default clock list.

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Hi Kevin,

Originally I didn't have any references, it just "feels right" to centre the window, but I found this - here's the gospel according to Microsoft:

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511262.aspx

There's reference to "Top Level Utilities", I guess that would cover your app.

Cheers
Robin

PS - Re the discussion about available selections for crystal frequencies, you could have an external text file (or XML perhaps) which the user could specify 'odd' frequencies, to be read and added to the drop down list at startup ? I guess this would break the single executable aspect though.

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Thanks for the reference, Robin. I've already add code so the application starts in the center of the desktop. Since people can enter their own arbitrary frequency, I probably will put the idea of user-modified frequency list on hold. One slight workaround is to save one's current clock frequency and then load that file when you want to use that clock frequency. Yes, to store user data, one would need a default home location to the application.

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