ISP programmer for production?

Go To Last Post
28 posts / 0 new
Author
Message
#1
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello,
i am loking for a isp programmer for production.
until now i used avrisp but it is too slow in terms of prgrtoamming time, especially if i use the new v2 protocol.

here my requirements:

must:
-) shorter programming time then avrisp
-) serial or usb interface
-) command line software
-) 6-pin header

nice to have:
-) power supply from target

doy opyu have any experiencies with such programmers?

many thanks in advance
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I would be also interestid in this topic!
But with additional requirements: programming fuses! May be script handling!

regards

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Hi,
in Atmel page http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/app_notes.asp?family_id=607 is AVR911 (pdf and zip) Application Note:

Quote:
AVR911: AVR Open-source Programmer (13 pages, revision A, updated 07/04)
The AVR Open-source Programmer (AVROSP) is an AVR programmer application that replaces the AVRProg tool included in AVR Studio. It is a command-line tool, using the same syntax as the STK500 and JTAGICE command-line tools in AVR Studio.

They told it is good for production, but after some tests I have troubles with command line method of software control (in Win98). I know, it is DOS knowledge.
Maybe is here someone who wrote simple explanation about it, configuration etc., step by step?
Szymon

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

always a microsecond behind ...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Since moving to the v2 protocol, have you checked the "Oscillator and ISP Clock" settings on the 'Board' tab of AVR Studio's programming software? Immediately after a firmware upgrade to 2.0, it defaults the ISP clock to the slowest possible setting. You have to manually turn it back up to the optimal speed for your purposes. You can choose an ISP clock that is (at most) 1/4 of your target's clock speed, and up to a maximum of 921 kHz.

I was mystified at why Atmel thought that the v2 protocol was so much better than the older one, considering how much slower it was. Until I noticed that the ISP clock had been set down to 64 kHz -- changing that one setting yielded a 14-fold increase in programming speed!

- Luke

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

@derjens

it's horrible expensive

*greetz*

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

@Wulfinator

Sorry, the term "for production", wich was used in the posting, implies to me that $400 (what I paid for the EPSILON5-A1) ) is not a killer argument. Am I horribly wrong ?

Jens[/code]

always a microsecond behind ...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello together,
many thanks for your answers until now.

@luke:i didn't change anything in avrstudio after upgrading to v2 protocol. I only used stk500.exe and the programming time was terrible. Is it possible to change the isp clock with stk500.exe too?

equinox seems to be an option. the price of $400 would be ok. does anybody have experince with the software? is a command line version available?

does anybody of you have experiencies with elnec programmer (www.elnec.com)?

regards
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Hi,

Quote:
Am I horribly wrong ?

Not at all !!

(sorry for "me too" post)

Regards,
Steve

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
equinox seems to be an option. the price of $400 would be ok. does anybody have experince with the software? is a command line version available?

I exxagerated when I said $400 for the Equinox Epsilon5 MK II.
I costs 210 Euro indeed.
Once you have uploaded the Software into the prommer, you don't need any software for operating the device. Connecting the prommer to the target hardware - press the "YES"-Button - wait for the "PASS"-LED (or the FAIL-LED in case of failure) - that's it.
The power comes from the target or from an external power supply, which is connected to the prommer and than also feeds the target via the 6pin connector - ideal for onboard programming in production or firmware update in the customer's facilities.

My 8k application is uploaded in 9 seconds.

Regards
Jens

always a microsecond behind ...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

My 8k application is uploaded in 9 seconds.

I just timed a 20k flash, 1k EEPROM to Mega64 using CodeVision+STK500--12 seconds for the full cycle (including verify). Admittedly, there is a PC involved, but given these numbers I don't see how 9 seconds for 8k addresses OP's problem with "too slow".

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Taken from the STK500.exe command line help message:

STK500 -ccom1 -J
Will ask the AVRISP on com1: to report back the current setting for the ISP frequency.

STK500 -ccom1 -Ixxxxxx
Will program the AVRISP on com1: to use an ISP frequency of xxxxxx Hz. This is a non-volatile setting which will be saved in the AVRISP's EEPROM after you've set it once. The fastest frequency you will be able to use will be 1/4 of the clock speed of your target AVR. (As low as 1/32, if you are using an AVR which has a CKDIV fuse that is programmed.)

- Luke

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello again,
programming and verifying a nearly full atmega128 (125kByte flash, no eeprom) takes app. 140s with avrisp v1.52.
obviously parameters -J and -l are new in stk500.exe and i will give them a try.

btw: i can't use a stand-alone programmer, i would like to control the programmer via a pc.

once again many thanks for your efforts
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Hello

Sorry in advance for the self plug of our programmer . Please see
our website for the NetISP-A.

http://www.baritek.com/netisp-a.htm

We have many customers using this for their their production programming.

Thanks

John

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Wulfinator83 wrote:
@derjens

it's horrible expensive

*greetz*

errr hardly.....I thought you said it was for production!
by comparison the only suitable production programmer (that I found) for tiny12V cost over £300, for a Tiny12!!!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

SteveN wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
Am I horribly wrong ?

Steve

No you're not horrible wrong! But does "for production" mean that it can be more expensive than it's necessary? In my opinion: no!
Compared with other items, 400$ is a lot!
But from the point of view, that it's a stand alone programmer, it's ok!

regards

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello,
today i once again updated avrisp to v2 and tried to program the atmega128 (running with 16MHz external crystal) with avrstudio. first of all i programmed with maximum isp frequency but got an error message that programming failed although the flash was obviously programmed (target was running). decreasing the isp frequency had no effect, still programming failed.

any ideas?

regards
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I have ben using the equinox fs2000 for production for a few years
it is worth the $$, you do not need a PC to work with it, just push a button and it programs with a pass fail indication, and many projects can be loaded into it.
It seems pretty fast to me with the latest software.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello,
many thanks for the hint regarding the equinox programmer but i am looking for a porgrammer which could be controlled by a pc during programming.
anyone her with experiencies with elnec programmer?

regards
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

If you find the command line system too difficult, I'm sure I could knock up a quick (shudder) Visual Basic GUI for you...

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello dean,
obviously my comment was not clear. a command line system is what i am looking for. neither a gui nor a stand-alone programmer is needed.

regards
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

How are your boards being built and tested? If you're using a contract manufacturer (CM) then they probably use ICT (In circuit testing) to confirm that all devices are present and soldered. Most devices I've used can easily be programmed at ICT. Sometimes the CM will have the distributor do the programming if the volumes are appropriate.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

If this is "serious" production--many thousands of AVRs with the same firmware--you can ask your distributor to pre-program you AVRs for you. Yes, it will cost something (maybe doubling the cost of a Tiny11 :) ) but it would totally eliminate the step during production, as well as the one-time cost for purchase, setup, and upgrade of the production programming system.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well, if your after a simple command line, why not just create a simple BAT script file? It's quick and free!

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Why not interleaving the programmer on the production line?
I mean if you have the budget to buy one US$400 programmer with faster programming speed , but how fast it is? if only twice faster, why not use the same budget to buy five STK 500, then use a computer with multiple serial port and do programming to 4 or 5 AVR at once, it will make the programming even faster than use one of that fast programmer.

However, this is just an idea that must be verified by the fact and capability of running multiple AVR studio at the same time.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Just go to your local Atmel dealer if anyone ever needs their micros programmed. My rep told me they would program my parts if I sent them my object code. I think the cost was well under a dollar (US).

Tim

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

hello,
many thanks for your hints.
preprogramming is not possible because different firmare is loaded during testing of the boards.

regards
gerhard

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

That suggests to me that your tester is the best place to load the code.