Anyone noticed there's just been a sudden flurry of newbies asking this same question - did a course tutor somewhere just set some homework by any chance?
Cliff the cynic
(edit: just added six ! for Smiley's benefit!)
PS I'm tempted to use some of my library SPI-EEPROM routines to make a solution for this, post it here and then sit back and wait for the moment that everyone's project is marked by the tutor only to find they're all totally identical - mwahaha! :)
You are too evil Cliff :-) but the bad part is I wish I had thought of that :-)
PS I'm tempted to use some of my library SPI-EEPROM routines to make a solution for this, post it here and then sit back and wait for the moment that everyone's project is marked by the tutor only to find they're all totally identical - mwahaha! :)
On one occasion I was very tempted to insert trojan code into such a routine. It would do something screwy, but non-destructive after the Nth usage of the EEPROM write routine. Like put "CLAWSON RULES!" into the eeprom instead of the real data.
The characters can be defined by their ascii codes, so it is not immediately obvious what is being written and why.
If the code were being used as a guide and an example, rather than cut and paste, then the trojan would be immediately identified and deleted....
-Tony
The sad part is that I have posted my 25xxx EEPROM drivers several times on the Forum. Others have also posted worked examples, and there are extensive "getting going" threads as well. Desperate people aren't going to do some searches? I'm supposed to do them and post the links?? Then, I suppose the complaint will be wrong language/compiler/pin!!!!!!! [Six ! as is the fashion of the day to get attention.]
Lee
Well, I too get frustrated by seeing the exact same questions over and over. But doing searches is difficult, just like google searchs. It is not that you do not find anything, but that it is hard to separate the GREAT info from the rest. WHICH of these responses has the critical info?
I approached it by writing functional interrupt-driven EEPROM code into a self-contained module. I then posted it to the academy. I hope that this will result in a better signal to noise ratio for other users.
-Tony
The sad part is that I have posted my 25xxx EEPROM drivers several times on the Forum. Others have also posted worked examples, and there are extensive "getting going" threads as well. Desperate people aren't going to do some searches? I'm supposed to do them and post the links?? Then, I suppose the complaint will be wrong language/compiler/pin!!!!!!! [Six ! as is the fashion of the day to get attention.]Lee
I think the academy is write only. Once something goes in it is lost forever. I've never been able to find anything in it. And its impossible to browse it.
I think the academy is write only. Once something goes in it is lost forever. I've never been able to find anything in it. And its impossible to browse it.
Well, I have been able to find stuff in the academy by using the little "advanced search" window on the left of this screen. I also have been able to scroll thru the academy projects too.
While it mightnot be optimal, I *think* that the academy stuff is not lost forever entirely. Maybe a better, more specific, search is possible to implement.
-Tony
Gosh, have I been missing something somewhere.
Well, I have been able to find stuff in the academy by using the little "advanced search" window on the left of this screen. I also have been able to scroll thru the academy projects too.
I thought there were just the 7 or 8 articles listed on the splash page that were in the "Academy". It sure isn't very informative as to what is there, but a newbie misses a lot of stuff.
Thanks
Steve
IMHO I think it would be neat if when you posted a new topic, the Php website software would first do a search based on your posted text and return with a pile of links and a dialog box declaring "before I post this question, are any of these links helpful?"
Hmm, funny you should mention that.
I asked one of my employees to write some code for accessing the 93C46 EEPROM. Het has been on it for quit some time ans says he just can't get it to work.
I vagely remember that I did a forum search om 93C46 myself and didn't find any. Maybe I can search the academy as well.
Are those 25xx thingies somehow compatible with the 93C46?
Maybe searching is not as easy as it seams. In the company where I used be employee, I was known as the internet search specialist. On the other hand. In the land of the blind the one-eye is king :-)
I asked one of my employees to write some code for accessing the 93C46 EEPROM. Het has been on it for quit some time ans says he just can't get it to work.
I haven't applied the chip, but its "3 wire" interface should be fairly close to SPI. Atmel has an app note with 8051 code, as does the first Google hit http://www.pjrc.com/tech/8051/se...
It seems to be a popular part made by several manufacturers. I wonder what the hangup is.
Lee
Could be the microchip part they have produced seperate 8 and 16 bit devices. Also dont forget the pullup on D out
PEOPLE please don't bully the newbies! :roll:
Was it Kissinger who said "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence"?
I think most of these folks are genuinely ignorant and need somebody to uncle them into the forum etiquette. Some are lazy and want us to do their work for them, but we give them all the benefit of the doubt.
Please don't supply erronous advice or code to punish them for their newbieness, I have been fooled more than once by such answers before I finally realized that somebody was having me on. And I didn't say ha ha when I figured it out.
If you see too many CAPS or !!!!, just ignore these posts. Either a gentler soul will respond or no one will, either way they will learn and might eventually become good citizens or our community.
Smiley
Smiley,
Just thought it (in a tounge in cheek kind of a way) - wouldn't actually do it.
But there do seem to be two types of newbie who seem to come to Freaks.
One are people with a genuine problem, misunderstanding, lack of knowledge and it's a real pleasure to be able to help out someone in the same boat as you were 20 years (or perhaps even just 20 days) ago and give them a full answer or at least a shove in the right direction.
The other are people who have been told to do a certain task/project on the AVR then without a visit to the Atmel website, a look at a datasheet or even a Google on the topic they post here "can someone post a complete C solution to do X?". What do they learn if we post a complete C solution to do X?
It all goes back to the teaching that man to fish analogy.
(well that's my opinion anyway - I suppose the advice will be "you don't have to help anyone if you don't want - just ignore the post" but it's a little irksome seeing the folks who want to take the free ride without even a modicum of effort first)
Cliff
PS Have some !!!!! by the way. ;)
What do they learn if we post a complete C solution to do X?
Well, potentially quite a lot. It is often much more useful to see a whole functional module than a code snippet.
Yes, they may just cut and paste and move on, but for the person we most want to help, they will LOOK at it and probably need to modify it some to fit their exact requirements, and come to UNDERSTAND the stuff.
For those cut-and-pasters, well, they learned little. But is that a detriment to you or me? We may have wasted our time regarding the goal of promoting understanding, but if we hesitate to give full answers, then we harm just those we seek most to help!
I have learned much more from complete functional modules than I have ever learned from a snippet here and there.
-Tony
They learn from the complete C solution if they take the time out to read through it and work out what each line is doing and then I agree that seeing the "whole picture" helps in that case. However if they take the C, walk away saying "well that was the easiest homework assignment I ever had, Joe Bloggs, just saved me 3 evenings of study" then it's a bit sad (IMHO)
For what it's worth, when I started out there were NO microcontrollers. As they became available, I had to learn the stuff by DOING it and hoping that someone could help if it didn't work. That was hard to do with no internet and forums. The point is, newbie or not, some effort should be shown before giving them complete code. If someone really wants to give it, then be my guest, but i'm biased by my background (one of those OLD geezers) and don't like giving free rides with no effort. (i.e. I need C code for this project!!!!).
Randy
I agree with Spamiam. Actually I engineer like this, given a problem I try to find and steal a complete solution if at all possible, resorting to real work only if absolutely necessary. And don't get ethical on me, certain wealthy islands near China (which shall remain unnamed) got wealthy by this kind of engineering. I would venture to say that engineering by defintion is about stealing other folks ideas and applying to the problem at hand. I recently saw where an engineering course required an ethical statement as part of their project reports. This is a good idea as it teaches students to lie with a straight face, a very important engineering skill. If you get a new project assigned to you, just think WWWD (What Would Wally Do?)
Now after saying all that I will admit that you have to actually know one hell of a lot to figure out what's worth stealing and what isn't, and you'll never get there if all you do is cut and paste in school and don't learn the fundamentals. Most likely you'll wind up in engineering management. Then again, if you are an ethical type and insist on doing it all yourself, you'll likely wind up in an even worse place: academia where you'll pretend to teach students who will pretend to learn.
Oh crap! Am I becoming cynical?
Smiley
