Integrated Terminal

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billysugger
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Posted by billysugger: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 12:55 AM
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Recently upgraded to AS6.1 and installed the Terminal extension in the hope that it was more convenient than running Teraterm as a separate application. But I'm having problems with it.

1. My console code acts as a host for a conventional terminal stream presented in one window, not separate input/output windows. Is there a way to run the AS6.1 terminal like that?

2. The integrated terminal loses received data. I know, chances are it's my application code, but when I switch back to Teraterm and type Help I get my full command list, not the occasional characters AS6.1 gives me. Is this a known issue with this terminal or am I doing something wrong?

All (polite) advice gratefully received. :wink:

Electronic components work on the principle of smoke; I know this because when I let the smoke out, they stop working. Also, sanity is over-rated.

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Tools, Atmel Studio (AVR-related)
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Gold Markclawson
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Posted by clawson: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 08:27 AM
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The terminal extension was apparently a project for a student intern doing job experience at Atmel. If you need a very basic terminal in a hurry it might do but for anything serious I would get a proper terminal like Teraterm. What's more, with Teraterm the source is open so if there's anything about it you don't like you can change it and rebuild.

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billysugger
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Posted by billysugger: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 11:29 AM
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clawson wrote:
The terminal extension was apparently a project for a student intern doing job experience at Atmel.
Holy cow! Makes me think I'm back in the world of Microchip! Is Atmel serious about professional development tools? I'll revert to Teraterm.

Electronic components work on the principle of smoke; I know this because when I let the smoke out, they stop working. Also, sanity is over-rated.

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Gold Markclawson
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Posted by clawson: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 11:41 AM
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Quote:

Is Atmel serious about professional development tools?

That suggests you have not used AS6 itself.It is a very professional tool. But the items in the "extension gallery" are from third parties. Like apps on your Android or iPhone some are unthinkably excellent and some are not that great. It's up to you to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Peronally I've never totally understood this requirement to have everything "inside" an IDE. Sure you want it to edit code and configure/build it and finally program/debug it but for "outside jobs" like terminal emulation I'd simply pick "best in class" from many alternate offerings - what advantage is there in having it actually inside the IDE? At the end of the day it's just another window and where it comes from is pretty irrelevant.

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billysugger
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Posted by billysugger: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 01:16 PM
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Sure I've used AS6. It's a very professional tool, and it should be because it's mostly Microsoft Visual Studio 10. I'm just amazed that a key feature, like an integrated terminal, is a poxy work-experience project. Surely Atmel could release a competent terminal extension.

For many developers, a terminal is a vital debug aid and is often the only programmer-friendly user interface in an embedded project. I understand if you don't use one regularly, but for me the very first thing I get working in a new project after, the CPU clock and a 1ms timebase interrupt, is a serial command interpreter. I use a terminal way more than a debugger, and competent debuggers are usually integrated into IDEs. This is why I am also searching for a competent, minimal USB CDC implementation for Xmega-U MCUs.

I'll take AS6 as it is and run an external terminal, but I'm just surprised that Atmel have failed to recognise and address what I consider to be a key void in its flagship IDE. If I'm in a minority of one, so be it, but this is my opinion.

Electronic components work on the principle of smoke; I know this because when I let the smoke out, they stop working. Also, sanity is over-rated.

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 01:24 PM
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clawson wrote:
Peronally I've never totally understood this requirement to have everything "inside" an IDE.

Totally agree!

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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Gold Markclawson
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Posted by clawson: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 02:40 PM
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Quote:

Surely Atmel could release a competent terminal extension.

Why? Their job is selling AVR silicon and the tools to build code for it. You don't NEED a terminal for that. I'd much rather have the limited resources of Atmel's tools development team dedicated to doing the AVR/SAM specific stuff and leave generic terminal programs to the experts in that field. Only Atmel can fix the debugger and device specific stuff but any one can write a terminal.

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billysugger
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Posted by billysugger: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 06:03 PM
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So it's not important to you. I get that.

What my OP was asking was if anyone knows of a competent terminal extension, or could advise if I'm doing something wrong. Please keep to that topic on this post.

Electronic components work on the principle of smoke; I know this because when I let the smoke out, they stop working. Also, sanity is over-rated.

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meolsen
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Posted by meolsen: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 06:42 PM
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The terminal is not to everyones liking. There is also a bug on it dropping data, especially at high bauds. However, it is what it is. As far as I know, terminal extensions to VS is not something big, so there's no real market.

If this is such a big issue, there is nothing stopping people from writing their own. The VS SDK is very flexible. Big irritations usually gives birth to great software.

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Microchip, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

 

The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Apr 23, 2014 - 07:26 PM
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billysugger wrote:
a key (sic?) feature, like an integrated terminal,

I guess that's the problem: they don't think that it's a key feature of the IDE - and it would seem that they are not alone in that...

And, if I found a really great terminal app, I wouldn't want it locked-in to one IDE; I'd want to be free & able to use it with any IDE - or no IDE - as required.

Quote:
... it's mostly Microsoft Visual Studio 10.

So it might be worth looking around to see if there are any other terminal plug-ins for VS in general... :?:

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
Top