How to run this and how powerful is it?

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#1
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So, I couldn't resist my urges again at a fleemarket from a fellow I know and I bought this little thingie (see attatchment). It's a UV Mercury lamp, most likely a mercury arc lamp. And a quite powerfull one for that matter. The squares on the paper are 5mm x 5mm.

Now: I don't know how powerful. And I don't know if it truly is a mercury arc lamp. And if it is, I don't know how to initiaze it.

Any clues? The only markings on it are

TH
1000

however, i don't think it could be a 1000W.

What do you think? What's the output power, input voltage, driving circuit...

Thanks,

David

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There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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Often, those numbers have nothing to do with electrical characteristics.

If its UV, protect your eyes! Very important. Welder's helmet would be good.

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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But the question is, does it need a high voltage ballast like a neon or fluorescent bulb and what volts and amps??

Imagecraft compiler user

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Quote:
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day;
Give me a fish and I'll VOMIT all day.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:
Quote:
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day;
Give me a fish and I'll VOMIT all day.

That is sad, John. Or are you just making a very obtuse comment about the water quality of the Sydneyside fishing grounds?

Cheers,

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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I HATE the smell of fish!

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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> however, i don't think it could be a 1000W.

I'm pretty sure it is. These are high-pressure lamps, so please don't
run them without an additional protection glass which would stop the
(quartz) glass remnants from flying around into your face in case of
explosion.

Off the head, I don't know the exact kind of power supply you need for
it. I think something is needed that will reduce the operating voltage
to the one of the arc (probably around 100 V), and you most likely need
a couple of kV to initiate the arc. I didn't try it, but I believe you
should find plenty of explanations by googling for it.

And yes, they are *really* bright. ;-) They are typically used to
illuminate large portions of a building site.

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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could be something like this:

http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin...

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js wrote:
I HATE the smell of fish!

Try eating a fresh one :-)

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Quote:
Give me a fish and I'll VOMIT all day.

Give me a good fish and I'll eat for about a half an hour ;-)

Quote:
But the question is, does it need a high voltage ballast like a neon or fluorescent bulb and what volts and amps??
That's a good one :-D I thought that there should be like a third pin, like a trigger pin, like in photoflashes, to initiate the arc. However, I can't see anything like that there.

ossi: 500$ !!!??? I bought the bugger for approx. one euro! Anyone wanna buy it for 100$? ;-)

About the protection: I was planning on turning it on remotely, however, a welders mask is a good idea. Weren't they supposed to block infrared?

:-D I'll come to a local sunglass shop, carrying it with me. I'll ask "Miss, have you any glasses that can block 1000W or UV light?"

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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With discharge lamps you need a ballast. This normally consists of a big iron cored inductor to limit the current and an igniter module to give the 20kV to fire the thing. The ballast is sized for a particular lamp. Or you could have a switchmode supply and a series resonant circuit across the lamp. Sweep the frequency so you hit resonance and this will strike the lamp. This is how the compact fluoros work.

Arc lamps give off UV as does arc welding. So an arc welding mask would be needed. Without protection this thing will burn your eyes and skin in little time.

This lamp has probably done its duty and is useless - brand new, they're worth a few dollars.

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Quote:
Try eating a fresh one
Hasn't done much good to your complexion by the looks of your AVATAR :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Often, lamps of this sort are replaced on a regular schedule because it is costly to get the lifts and whatever to change one when it burns out. Doing them all at once actually reduces cost. But, that also ends up with lamps that work, but may not continue working for a very long time.

Often, they just use high voltage to ignite them, then when the current starts flowing the voltage drops to what ever it should be for that bulb. Its really hard to figure out what the correct balast might be. If the balast is too large, the current will be too low and it will not operate properly. If the current is too high, it will burn out early, and may melt.

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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I had some experience with high power arc lamps (2KW to 6KW), all of them water cooled. To ignite them, I saw two different ways, one is with the classic ballast, that is 'adding' a transformer in series with the power cable. On the other side, once they are started, no more high voltage needed, and all power supplies that I serviced were current controlled. None of them small, and even less cheap, of course. Ah, and these nice PS were also liquid cooled.

Guillem.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Btw., that reminds me... I've got a similar lamp here in
a drawer. It's a 3.5 kW type, produced by TESLA, probably
in 1981.

I wouldn't want to be near that lamp when it's operating. :)

For comparison, the glass bulb itself is 14 cm long.

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Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Just be extremely careful with these kind of lamps, see warning below:

Attachment(s): 

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Hey great! :-) Do you perchance have a larger copy to reproduce on a printer?
(And hopefully one without the JPEG artefacts. As it's just 2 colors, it
should be perfect for a PNG.)

But as you can read there: "The use of Electricity for lighting is in no way
harmful [...]". :)

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Looking at the pile of work on my desk I decided to start the working day with a coffee and some artwork, so I did a mockup of that sign. You can find the PDF file below.

It seems like there have been other "flavours" of this sign available back then, I´ve attached a picture of another one (from "Mt. Vernon Museum of Incandescent Lighting" in Baltimore).

I have no real idea about the switches back then but this one seems to be even more 'authentic' (rotary motion vs. pressing) since most 'ancient' switch designs that I´ve seen are rotary ones, so I went with the 'turn key' description.

Have fun,

Ingo

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Quote:
Do you perchance have a larger copy to reproduce on a printer?
You can actually BUY it I think (but why you ask), I have seen them around before.
Did have a larger one before but could not find it. Anyway others have come up with the goods it seems.

ps Don't know about NOT affecting the soundness of sleep...they would have had small electricity bills back then I guess :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Thanks guys!

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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I have a small comment to through in. I work in Felxographic narrow web printing and we use large UV curing systems. These bulbs (simular to the ones in this post I think) are rated at several hundred watts per inch. I would also like to mention as did the others that these lamps produce a huge amount of UV radiation. Our lamps are shielded inside reflective air cooled chambers and only allow a 1/8" slit for the stock material to pass through sometimes at 600 FPM. The reflection from the stock material alone through that 1/8" gap is blinding. So in short.. Lots of sun screen and a welders mask couldn't hurt. :)

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The 3KW5 arc lamps that I worked with, were enclosed inside a big white teflon box, with 1.5cm thick wall, water cooling, a metal elliptical reflector (the lamp was in one of the focus, a laser Nd:YAG on the other), and when ingited, even at is minimum current (about 8A, 100W), the ligh that came trhough the teflon was enough to see in the dark the rest of the 'laser rail'. I will try to post some pictures, but I don't have them available until next week.

Guillem.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Thanks guys for the info.

I think I've done a bad. I put the tube onto my DIY HV powersupply made from a TV HV transformer. Now, the side I had one pole seems to be silvery (a thin film on the glass), while the other side is OK. It was most likely only a few miliamps though. I guess there's a reason why they need a lot of power. :-D

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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Applying very low power normally does no harm.
But there may be some effects to be seen.
Usually there is mercury inside (quite toxic).
If you ignite a low-power discharge, the mercury
may evaporate and after cooling
again attach to some other areas than before.

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I hate to say this fellas (especially since so many here are experts and I am not) but, most mercury vapor/ sodium vapor/ and metal halide lamps simply would not have the gas cartridge exposed in this way. IMHO this is just a doggone halogen lamp:) Tungsten halogen maybe 1000 watts with the porcelain standoffs. Might be wrong but, thats what she looks like to me!!

John

Just some guy

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Theres a balll of liquid mercury, that acts like mercury. So I guess it's mercury.

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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Maybe its a tilt sensor out of a pinball machine. Do the wires read continuity when the mercury is bridging them?

Imagecraft compiler user

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> Maybe its a tilt sensor out of a pinball machine.

C'mon guys. There are really *fat* wires on it. Why can't you simply trust
it to be a pretty normal Hg vapour lamp? The lamp I've shown is even in the
original package, and the package labels clearly identifies it as a 3.5 kW
lamp. Btw., googling for that Tesla lamp type even reveals an old GDR patent
mentioning this lamp has been used for the exposure of a photopolymerisable
material:

http://www.wikipatents.com/gb/21...

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Hey, I posted a disclaimer in my post regarding the fact that I was "spit-ballin'" :lol: So, that allows me to post "guesses" ...just kidding! David, I was unaware of the ball of mercury but, I have never seen a MV lamp with the heavy braided leads shown in the photo and the porcelain standoffs...makes things more interesting.

Have a nice day, JOHN

Just some guy