Flower shaped pads for protoboards [split]

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This thread has been split off from https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p... in the Trade Section.
This split prevents that we loose the discussion and the suggested improvements.

Splitting the thread at bluegoo's post: arbitrary, but found it too funny to let it fade away.

Guys, let's have the technical discussion and suggestions here and do the commercial chats in the Trade Section

Nard

(I realize that I stick my neck out doing this but it's worth the try: AFAIK this is the first thread that required this action)

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Quote:
Which protoboard is needed by every electronics enthusiast?

a universal protoboard is somewhat elusive, but it should have some of the following attributes for it to be truely universal in nature
1. It should have "shape shifting pads". If you are not familiar with those, they are the latest technology...liquid copper pads that change shape when a component is placed on them. The actual copper pad changes to the shape of the component lead.
2. The pads should also feature variable vertical surface geometry, so if you place a BGA on the pad it changes shape to a copper pad with solder ball instead of a flat pad.
3. The dialectric of the base material between the liquid copper pads of the protoboard should be such that no shorts are possible no matter how bad the welding of the components leads are.
4. The base material heat transfer properties is important. It should be able to withstand the application of the arc welding of a component lead to the pad for a few minutes (to make sure there is a good connection) and the base protoboard material will not warp or catch fire.
5. The protoboard should feature thru hole pads or vias that automatically become plated thru when the user drills a hole anywhere on the protoboard. The inner liquid copper layer would flow into the drilled thru holes creating an electrical connection between the top and bottom of the pcb.
6. Lastly the protoboard should feature "DRC" such that when power is 1st applied to the protoboard after welding all the components, the proto design always works correctly per the "DRC".

These are just a few suggestions and there are probably other features that other freaks could think of that every electronics enthusiast would want. :roll:
Wish you good fortune in 2012!

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bluegoo wrote:
Quote:
Which protoboard is needed by every electronics enthusiast?

a universal protoboard is somewhat elusive, but it should have some of the following attributes for it to be truely universal in nature
1. It should have "shape shifting pads". If you are not familiar with those, they are the latest technology...liquid copper pads that change shape when a component is placed on them. The actual copper pad changes to the shape of the component lead.
2. The pads should also feature variable vertical surface geometry, so if you place a BGA on the pad it changes shape to a copper pad with solder ball instead of a flat pad.
3. The dialectric of the base material between the liquid copper pads of the protoboard should be such that no shorts are possible no matter how bad the welding of the components leads are.
4. The base material heat transfer properties is important. It should be able to withstand the application of the arc welding of a component lead to the pad for a few minutes (to make sure there is a good connection) and the base protoboard material will not warp or catch fire.
5. The protoboard should feature thru hole pads or vias that automatically become plated thru when the user drills a hole anywhere on the protoboard. The inner liquid copper layer would flow into the drilled thru holes creating an electrical connection between the top and bottom of the pcb.
6. Lastly the protoboard should feature "DRC" such that when power is 1st applied to the protoboard after welding all the components, the proto design always works correctly per the "DRC".

These are just a few suggestions and there are probably other features that other freaks could think of that every electronics enthusiast would want. :roll:
Wish you good fortune in 2012!

Hi bluegoo,

Really Really thank you for your suggestion. I think there are many valuable experience and nice suggestion.

I will send your suggestion to our hardware engineer,
The Flower Protoboard we would love to send you for test. Even our next modified version.

Regards

ElecFreaks
Home Page: http://www.elecfreaks.com/
Email: support@elecfreaks.com

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Richard,

I think "bluegoo" is playing a joke on your efforts ...

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Yeah, but think of the profits if he can do it!!

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Richard sent me a v2.4 flowerboard to evaluate. Here are my findings:
1. It's a giant step forward in pad-shape in years. See the attached "various" picture
2. 1206 shape is doable but 0805 is better. SOT23: a 45 degr orientation has been suggested, but I'd rather use orthogonal orientation. But that's a matter of taste. SOT223 is easy to use.
3. The SOIC area: we AVRfreaks need 4 more pins to use a 90PWM3. See picture.
4. Tracks from header-holes to pads are very thin: 0.2mm ? I'd prefer a wider track.
5. Ross suggested a non-plated through version: I understand the why, but the "price" is loss of ruggedness. Maybe this suggestion helps: use a 3mm spiral steel drillbit, put it on a hole of which you'd like to get rid of the plated through hole, a few turns by hand suffice. Of course the four leaves of the flower are no longer interconnected but a small blob of tin will re-establish that connection.
5. Arduino-shields are a market but so are Eurocards: 100x160mm. No competion to eachother, just an extra market segment. As a price indication: I pay €2.50 for a plated through, square pads Eurocard, FR4 material. A slightly higher price for a Euro-flower card would be acceptable.

Nard

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Found out that the odd pinnumbers of the double row header are not connected to any pads. See AT90PWM3.jpg picture in my previous post: it's the header on the right. Will think of decent way to solve that in the next revision of the Mega Flower Shield.

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Did some layout-work ....

With a modified flower-pad, the dualrow header for the Xmega shield can be accessed via pads

To get the SOIC32 to a usable layout was a tad more work: on the bottomlayer a groundtrack is added to the two rows of SMDpads. Any of the SOICpads can now be connected to ground with a solder-blob. Would have been nice to do something simular for Vcc but that's tricky ;)

The pictures in this post are so called photoviews.

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Toplayer copper is blue, toplayer silk is red.
I cannot use a line in silk: that would compromise inter-flower solderability :)
Big dots mark pin1

Bottomlayer copper is green

No visible soldermask

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Hi Richard and Nard,

Lots of good work there Nard. Richard sent me version 2.2. I have just opened the package and will have some comments shortly.

Cheers ... and Happy New Year

Ross
ps ... I think you meant 0.3mm drill size.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Ross wrote:

Quote:
ps ... I think you meant 0.3mm drill size.

Are you referring to my note 4 ?

Quote:
4. Tracks from header-holes to pads are very thin: 0.2mm ? I'd prefer a wider track.

I really mean the track-width.

Cheers

Nard

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Plons wrote:
Ross wrote:
Quote:
ps ... I think you meant 0.3mm drill size.

Are you referring to my note 4 ?

Cheers

Nard

No. Note 5.

ps ... do you think this thread still belongs in the trade area? General electronics now appears more appropriate to me.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Ah, the Get-Rid-Of-Plated-Through trick :)
No, I really meant 3mm, but 2.5mm is fine too.

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Quote:
ps ... do you think this thread still belongs in the trade area? General electronics now appears more appropriate to me.

Good idea, ..... I think ;)
I will sleep on it.
Need to find a modus for that (the commercial aspect f.i.)

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Ross, with a milling-bit the result is even better.

(Some noise in tha house woke me up .... damn, the adrenaline rush makes that I am very awake now)

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Understood. Drilling it out with a slightly oversized drill bit would also work. My 0.75mm is too small and the 0.95mm too big ... but maybe just right.

Do you have the artwork for the flower design in Eagle?

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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I don't use Eagle but SprintLayout5.0 from http://www.abacom-online.de
Nice program but not recommended, as it doesn't have a link to the schematic. But for this kind of jobs it's a great tool.

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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A question on hole sizes:
a/ for the pinheaders: are 1.1mm where 0.85 would suffice
b/ The holes in the flowerpads are 1.15mm: 0.7mm would be OK, but to leave some extra room for f.i. switches, 0.8mm is large enough.

Why did you choose the current hole-size ?
The larger the hole, the more tin is required. And the components fall of when turning the board to solder them ;)
Also: the leaves of the flower are smaller now than with smaller holes

Nard

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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My prototypes just arrived. I have some thoughts as well. Nard, what sayeth you on moving this to Gen Elec??

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Split and moved.

Nard

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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Version 2.2 has flowerpad holes that are smaller than 0.95mm and larger than 0.75 (I haven't any drills between these two sizes). So based upon your findings Nard, I would recommend reverting to the version 2.2 flowerpad hole size.

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Flower pads!! What are you a bunch of 70s, hippies? :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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60's, John, 60's ...... :)

I sent elecfreaks this suggestion for the flowerpads: I haven't tested it but I think it will reduce the amount of solder to make a bridge between pads even further.

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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FlowerPad Mk4 is now in testphase. It looks very good and I will keep you updated on how it performs.

I need to make more pictures. Coming soon.

Attachment(s): 

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tessa and Tina, You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips