Disabled Reset Pin or what?

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Hi all.
Anyone had experience with disabled reset pin?
According to datasheet it can be reset using HV programming.
I tried with no luck.
The chip I tried to recover is a pre programmed chip so I assumed the reset pin was disabled because I can't read it using ISP nor HV programming.
I could do it with "normal chip" but this one made me curious.
Any suggestion?

Ow it's Tiny 26 (don't suggest me to throw it because I really curious what kind of protection they did to the chip):-?

Smith

This topic has a solution.

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

Last Edited: Mon. Jun 15, 2020 - 11:24 AM
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MicroGyro wrote:
I really curious what kind of protection they did

So have you studied the datasheet to see what kinds of protection are available ... ?

 

Of course, if they have enabled protection, the whole point of that is precisely to stop you reading it!

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There have been reports on here previously of techniques people have used to deliberately "burn" pins to make the device inaccessible. Wonder if it could be something like that?

 

But tell us more about your high voltage programming attempt. The datasheet shows:

So did you really manage to lift the chip from whatever circuit it is in and then connect these 18 connections? What was driving the HVPP session?

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Yes I take the chip out the board and wired all the connection to the HVPP.

I made the HVPP myself years ago while I still learning about AVR and bricked 3 of mega chips because the cksel setup.
Since then it helps me alot.
My HVPP can only do:
-Read the signature
-Erase Flash
-Set Fusebit

As I said I can do it with normal tiny 26 chip but not this one.

After several try I give up and put the chip back to the original board.
And it still can do the job as before.
So I guess I can't get into the ISP nor HVPP because the reset didn't work.
Ow when I check the reset pin voltage without pull up it give about 3V reading. With the pull up 5V.
With HVPP it goes to about 12V

Smith

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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MicroGyro wrote:
bricked 3 of mega chips because the cksel setup.

Off topic, but that shouldn't have required HV to rectify?

 

 

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perhaps this is use full:

 

https://www.avrfreaks.net/commen...

 

 

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? I don't understand

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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I don't have STK500
Too expensive here

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

This reply has been marked as the solution. 
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If you can HVPP a normal tiny26 and not this chip, I guess they have killed a IO pin on the chip (#3 also suggested this)

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MicroGyro wrote:
? I don't understand
CKSEL "accidents" are always recoverable simply by injecting a clock signal into XTAL1. they should never require HVPP. See:

 

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

 

It's only things like RSTDISBL that will require HV programming.

Last Edited: Mon. Jun 15, 2020 - 11:03 AM
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Ok thanks.
I followed the wrong path :-/

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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If this even possible then I have to give up.
:-B

Case closed

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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MicroGyro wrote:
Case closed

You "close" the case by marking the solution - see Tip #5 in my signature:

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Done

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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If you want to check it.

See if any "normal" IO, easy can be pulled up over VCC+0.7 V (the protection diode gone).  

I'm not sure about the 12V on the reset, but check if there is any current running.

 

an other way to check normal IO's is Vcc on the pin, and see if Vcc get some voltage.

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To give the 12V, the supply have to be series with 1k ~ 4k7 resistor.
Some chips will get only 10V if using 4k7 so I guess 1k is the choice.
Directly give 12V to the reset pin will make the chip get warm along the time.
I'm not sure why but I tried at several mega's.
And it was getting hotter if I repeated the programming several times.
Maybe not genuine AVR? Or it's only for limited time to do programming?
I didn't do the test again since then.

I'll try what you suggest after I take out back the chip.

Smith

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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normal tiny 26 chip but not this one.

Is it a tiny26 or not?  What is the part number? show a picture. 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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Please see the attachment

Attachment(s): 

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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That's a lot of wiring just to find out why a pin isn't working....If you get the pin working, so what then?  Dance in the street?  

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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Just to make sure that it's all is wired correct I would move the wires one by one over on an other tiny26 and see if that work. 

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An for this kind of work I use a socket like this, bend the top pins and then solder the chip on.(perhaps the corners need extension, but it's easy to see if it's correct and very stable   )

 

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and this kind of thing tyo put the chip on:

 

 

But, again, what is the point of all this ?

 

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MicroGyro wrote:
Please see the attachment

A lot more helpful if you put it in the post - where we can see it:

 

 

See Tip #1 in my signature:

 

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From #1 :

 I really curious what kind of protection they did to the chip):-?

 

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but wasn't that answered back in #9 ?

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Only if we(OP) is 100% sure that connections are correct.

 

over and out, unless OP come back.

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Can I just be a pedant and point out that "over and out" comes from films and TV series portraying folks who don't understand radio protocol. You would never actually use "over" and "out" together. "over" means "I have finished speaking so it is your turn" while "out" means "the conversation ends here". So if you expect a response use "over" or if you are all done use "out" but "over and out" don't actually make sense together.

 

(sorry but you touched a raw nerve ;-)

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I burned the chip while testing every pin to see what's reading at the VCC pin.
.
I forgot to switch the supply back to 5V after I test 12V directly to the reset pin.
.
After that when I put 5V to the chip VCC pin it became hot.
So I guess the experiment is over.
.
Thank you guys for all suggestions.
.
At least I knew there's such thing as disabling pin pyshically.
.
Smith

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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? That is what we always has used on the HAM radios.

 

Perhaps not used for pilots ?

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MicroGyro wrote:

So I guess the experiment is over.

Fair enough.

 

However, was that electrolytic capacitor meant to be your bypass cap?  Insufficient and inappropriate.  Electrolytics have too much ESR and ESL.  Bypass should be from a 'fast', lower value cap, usually a 100nF ceramic.  It is also critical that it be as physically close to the device it is bypassing as is possible.  You have yours soldered to the header at the end of relatively long, thin wires.

 

In future, solder a 100nF cap directly to the VCC/GND pins of the device.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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So now your PCB is useless junk (#23) without a micro??!!!   Seems like a bad move or movie.    

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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That was the second attempt re-wiring so it is not as neat as the first one
It's to check for the pin to vcc result
I believe I dont need that 100nF for that. Or do I?
That 100uF cap is for added filter because my supply cable is 1metre long

So at the first attempt I also put 100nF ceramic cap on both side of the chip
I always put it on the VCC and AVCC side very close to the chip for all my projects

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

Last Edited: Tue. Jun 16, 2020 - 09:25 PM
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From the first time that controller unit was useless for me so I try to take out the chip maybe I can use it
.
It's only for ON and OFF ing 3 vibration motor so I can't believe they protect the chip that way
.
I believe nowadays junior kid scholl can make that with their arduino maybe even better :-))
.
That's why I'm sure I can use the chip
But I was wrong
.
Smith

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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Your signature doesn't shows up on mobile sir

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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MicroGyro wrote:

I believe I dont need that 100nF for that. Or do I?

You always need it.  Always.

 

See AVR042, chapter 2.

 

MicroGyro wrote:

Your signature doesn't shows up on mobile sir

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"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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Thank you
.
Smith

I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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MicroGyro wrote:
Your signature doesn't shows up on mobile 

You have to be on a desktop/laptop (or request the desktop site) to see signatures.

 

In my signature, I wrote:

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It's worth visiting the desktop site - several other contributors also have useful tips in their signatures

 

#UserSignature

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awneil wrote:
You have to be on a desktop/laptop (or request the desktop site) to see signatures.
Or set you phone browser to "request desktop" (assuming you have very good eyesight!). I've all but given up referring to my signature at this stage as increasing numbers of people seem to access Freaks with phones/tablets most of the time. (for the same reason not much point putting a lot of effort into avatars either!)

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actually, on my phone I can see signatures:

 

 

It's not a top-spec or large-screen phone (Xperia XA2) - doesn't your super-wizzy Samsung show them?

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My phone is Xperia Z5 Dual
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I don't know why I'm still doing this hobby

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That's Clawson's
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