Difference between 1323 and 1404 variants of attiny85?

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Hi! I'm using a few attiny85 in my projects, programming them via the arduino IDE. A few days ago I started having trouble programming my newest batch of chips (Arduino and avrdude said invalid device id). After troubleshooting I found that all my programmable chips have the text "1323" on them, to the right of the Atmel logo, while the failing chips says "1404". I can't find anything about 1323 vs 1404 in the datasheet, so I'm reaching out here to see if anyone else knows more about this?

 

In short, my question is: what's the difference between 1323 and 1404 variants of attiny85? (Attached: picture of the two variants)

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it's when they are made!

And there are different versions of the 85, the version are hidden in the code on the other side. 

 

I have many from 1319 and they are some of the last, of the old version as I remember. 

 

Last Edited: Fri. Jan 8, 2016 - 11:21 AM
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I found it:

The change has to do with BOD.

7.2.1 Limitations BOD disable functionality has been implemented in the following devices, only:

• ATtiny25, revision E, and newer

• ATtiny45, revision D, and newer

• ATtiny85, revision C, and newer

 

So I could be a real problem, but I guess that it can be solved :) 

 

 

Add:

If it's a real problem, I have 200+ revision B

The letter are written on the under side

Last Edited: Fri. Jan 8, 2016 - 11:52 AM
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Thank you, sparrow2! I'm embarrassed to admit that I hadn't even seen the codes on the other side... But how do you find which revision is related to which code? The 1323 variant says

 

3U3    939

B3     1P

1323   e3

 

while the 1404 variant says

 

3Y2     273

B2      1P

1404   e3

 

My guess would be B2 and B3 where the revision codes, but that would suggest that the 1323 variant is newer (B3) than the 1404 variant (B2)?!

 

Also: when running Nick Gammons board detector it won't go into programming mode on the 1404's, while happily reporting fuse settings and chip type on the 1323's. That suggests bigger differences than just the BOD fuse/settings?

 

Would you please help me to understand this? :)

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Perhaps it's time to ask Atmel.

 

my chip are marked this

 

3U1   887

B      1P

1319  E3

 

 

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Perhaps the default speed are different!

 

I have only used stk500 for programming, and have never seen problems, but have never used newer than 1319 chips.

 

Do you program reset? (perhaps to strong pull up)

Which clk source (if you use PLL perhaps slower to lock)

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Yes, I use autoreset from the arduino programmer. Have tried with no clock source (internal) which works fine with the 1323 variant, and also with 8 MHz and 20 MHz... Strange. Thank you for your help, I guess you are right - I have to ask Atmel. I'm not sure how much they will support me in using arduino instead of "official" programmers, though.

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I opened a ticket about how to descipher the revision letter of the t85 a couple of years ago. I got a response, but it was basically 'we don't know, just query the device in AS'. Since I can't use AS, that was a completely useless response :(
If anyone ever figures this out, I'm all ears!

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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That is sad, perhaps someone should look into Atmel's handling of ISO9001

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Yes, that does sound strange. Anyway, I won't make a big fuss over it; it's just two chips of mine. I asked here since I thought maybe someone knew more about it. You've been of great help, sparrow2! Maybe I'll look more into it if my next batch of tinys turn out to be 1404s too...

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This is the first response I got:

Hi,

I have the top marking information, but not the bottom marking information. Actually you just only need the top marking information for your development. I'm sorry about that.

1236: Date code for marking(yyww)

ATTINY85: AT=Atmel, TINY85=Device name

20PU: 20=Speed grade(20MHz), P=Package(PDIP), U=green,industrial temp rang(-40C-85C)

This is the last response I got:

Hi,

I searched some material and get some information about the marking:

 

Top side:

1236: Date code(yyww)

ATTINY85: AT=Atmel, TINY85=Device name

20PU: 20=Speed grade(20MHz), P=Package(PDIP), U=green,industrial temp rang(-40C-85C)

 

Bottom side:

1F7    415: Fab lot number

1236   e3: Date code(yyww) and revision of the device

For some new chip, you could get the revision of the device by this way: Atmel Studio 6 -> Tools -> Device Programming -> set 'Tool', 'Device', 'Interface' -> Apply -> Device information

Both were from 2013.

 

The suggestion that the last line on the bottom side contains the revision is not correct.  1236 is obviously the data code.  However, 'e3' appears on every mega/tiny device I've ever laid my hands on.  They can't all be revision 'e3'.  The 'e' is stylised.

 

In fairness, I'm just some guy, a nobody.  If a volume customer were to open a similar ticket I expect they'd cough up a better answer.  Even if the answer is 'the revision does not appear on the package', I'd like to know that.  I expect the revision can be known by cross-referencing the fab, lot, and date code, but I don't have access to that kind of data ;-)

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

Last Edited: Sun. Jan 10, 2016 - 02:59 PM
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I would guess that you can get the revision from undocumented entries in the Signature Row.
I do not have this information.

Quite honestly, if you have a problem, you should quote Fab code and Date code and let Atmel give you an explanation.

David.

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For me the issue came up here:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/attiny85-software-bod-disable
Needing to rely upon the manufacturer to descipher my inventory's revision spread is annoying enough. That I can't get a straight answer is disappointing.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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If the revision is encoded within the undocumented portions of the signature row, I haven't been able to decode it:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/undocumented-signature-row-contents

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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sparrow2 wrote:

That is sad, perhaps someone should look into Atmel's handling of ISO9001

Yes, some other vendors have the revision as part of the device code.

That gives customers proper version control, and you know what you have.

 

The Atmel AT89 series all have a 5 digit mask code with a suffix revision letter on the underside

eg  35850B  35562J  35851E

With this customers do know what is actually inside the package, from the marking.

 

joeymorin wrote:

 However, 'e3' appears on every mega/tiny device I've ever laid my hands on.  They can't all be revision 'e3'.  The 'e' is stylised.

 

Two of the AT89LP devices I have here, also have e3, so clearly that is not a die revision ;)