A debugger on an AVR Xplained board? Really?

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[It might seem like this belongs in the Wireless forum, but it has traces of generic AVR matter so I placed it here]

I was feeling a tad sorry for myself, having a bad day at work. So I thought I'd give myself a present. I was looking at the ATmega256RFR2 Xplained Pro Starter Kit, when this popped out of the web page:

Quote:
"¢Embedded debugger
"¢Auto-ID for board identification in Atmel Studio 6.1
"¢One yellow status LED
"¢One green board power LED
"¢Symbolic debug of complex data types including scope information
"¢Programming
"¢Data Gateway Interface: SPI, TWI, 4 GPIOs
"¢Virtual COM port (CDC)

I was under the impression that Atmel had no AVR(8) "demo boards" that had a debugger on-board. Am I reading that product page correctly? A debugger on board?

And, even more interesting: Is that debugger similar to the one on the SAMD20 Xplained board in that the debugging interface proper has breakouts on the board - so that you can use this to debug something that is "off-board"?

While the complete starter kit (with extra Xplained boards (OLED, I/O...) is around $100, the bare Xplained board is $40. That is roughly the same as the cost of a Dragon. Or actually cheaper?

So..
Am I reading this correctly?
Same debugging platform as on the SAMD20 Xplained board?
Any drawbacks?
No debug breakout?
Is the debugger perhaps locked down to do only ATMega256RFR2 devices?

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No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

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Last Edited: Thu. Jan 23, 2014 - 03:02 PM
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Quote:

when this popped out of the web page:


On the page you linked, click the Documents tab...
Quote:

Atmel Embedded Debugger User Guide
(file size: 250KB, 10 pages, revision A, updated: 05/2013)

The Atmel® Embedded Debugger (EDBG) is an onboard debugger for integration into development kits with Atmel MCUs. In addition to programming and debugging support through Atmel Studio, the EDBG offers data streaming capabilities between the host computer and the target MCU.


I'll let you figure out if it answers your questions. ;)

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I had a quick look in the Users Guide for the board. JTAG interface is on the pins PF4-7 on the ATMega256RFR2. These are connected to the EDBG module (Embedded Debugging) that is on the board. But these pins are also brought out to a header. They might primarily be there for access to ADC channels 4-7 - but I'm wondering if it would be possible to debug something that is off-board.

(I probably must give myself that present. Regardless of if off-board debugging is possible or not, the $39 is acceptable for getting another wireless "station" with programming and debugging on-board.)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:

but I'm wondering if it would be possible to debug something that is off-board.

That guide doesn't want to cut/paste nicely here.

Note that it says that it is configured to each particular board. So some kind of programmable logic device?

Re extra header(s)--there is a virtual comm port interface and a "DGI" interface...

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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We're crossing our beams here, Professor Spengler..

Quote:
I'll let you figure out if it answers your questions.

I might be reading that the wrong way, but it does not answer at least one of the things I am wondering about (and I might have expressed that badly above): Will this work as a debugger for a system that is "off-board"?

The EDBG has been up for discussion here before. It refers to an Atmel chip on the board that implements JTAG and other debugging/programming. If I am not mistaken it is exactly the same module that is on the SAMD20 board. And that does off-board debugging.

But it does that of Atmel ARM chips, not AVRs AFAIK. So in some way Atmel can control the EDBG module. Or they actually have several variants of it, some that does ARMs, others that does AVRs.

Or is it perhaps that the debugger software (i.e. Studio, or the debugger backend) talks to the XPlained boards. They have stuff like serial numbers, and hardware IDs on-board if I am not mistaken. So Studio might ask, through the debugger, "What board are you?", and get e.g. "I am an ATmega256RFR2Xplained" and then refuse to debug anything other than that chip?

As I said, the board is cheap. The prevention factor for me ATM is in the shipping cost. Atmel wants something like $50 to ship a small package from Inonesia IIRC. It sucks to pay $50 S/H for a $40 thing. I'll have to dig around..

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:

It refers to an Atmel chip on the board that implements JTAG and other debugging/programming. If I am not mistaken it is exactly the same module that is on the SAMD20 board. And that does off-board debugging.

But it does that of Atmel ARM chips, not AVRs AFAIK


Wonder if it's a coincidence that ICE3 recently spouted D20 support? Could an ICE3 really (effectively) be the same AVR32-UC3 chip that is now being built onto some of these Xplained boards? If so maybe it works both ways? So the Xplained boards with it sprout the ability to debug AVR(8)s

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OK. So I looked around for an alternative supplier. E.g. Mouser has a good price, but refuses to say anything about shipping costs before check-out. And to get there you need to go through all that registration crap.

Bastards.

This day does not get any better, it seems.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:

So the Xplained boards with it sprout the ability to debug AVR(8)s

Brilliant, Cliff! If I get the time I will test this in the evening. I have a SAMD20 board and the STK600 with the 2560 in the top drawer ATM - so this should (at least in theory) be a simple test.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:

I have a SAMD20 board and the STK600 with the 2560 in the top drawer ATM - so this should (at least in theory) be a simple test.


Quote:

Note that it says that it is configured to each particular board.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Yup I didn't mean the SAMD20 board might be able to debug AVR8's. Just that if Atmel have an across the board UC3 based debugger design they could stick it in a plastic case and put AVR+SAM firmware in it and call it a "debug everything box". They could lay it down on an ARM board, give it ARM firwmare and it debugs that. Lay it down on an AVR board, give it the AVR side of the firmware and it debugs that - just conjecture/speculation. I guess Dean's NDA probably prevents him commenting even though he's left and I'm guessing someone like Morten simply couldn't confirm such a rumour if Atmel want to keep that kind of thing a secret.

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Quote:
I guess Dean's NDA probably prevents him commenting even though he's left and I'm guessing someone like Morten simply couldn't confirm such a rumour if Atmel want to keep that kind of thing a secret.

If Dean is just a quarter as smart and half half the gentleman I think he is he would never reveal anything substantial he knew about the EDBG, regardless of the contents and validity of the NDA he signed.

Same for Morten, plus he is within the heavy-fire-range of the bosses.

I seem to recall that someone (the rus-merican wireless guy? :wink:) confirmed it was an AVR32 chip with special firmware.

No this is just something we might play with ourselves.

(And as soon as I get some decent shipping costs the board, or the extended kit, is well worth it's money regardless).

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Surely this is exactly what the LPC-Link 2 board does.

Of course you have to configure it as the commercial debugger that is required. No, I don't have a LPC-Link 2 but I bet that there is some sort of crippling involved somewhere.

In theory, your Debugger agent sends USB commands to the LPC-Link and the LPC-Link firmware does the appropriate JTAG/SWD wiggles to the target ARM / AVR / Renesas / ...

For this to work, the agent needs to know both the proprietary J-Link / U-Link / ... language and the proprietary wiggles of the target chip.

Since Atmel is not always very good at talking to its own proprietary stuff, I would not hold your breath.

David.

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Quote:

I would not hold your breath.

I am thankful for that. :D

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Atmel wrote:
Embedded debugger

1st of April? Again?

Quote:
Am I reading that product page correctly?

I am really skeptical. Unless some guinea pig tests that:
If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Beware, avRFreaks.

Quote:
Same debugging platform as on the SAMD20 Xplained board?

Are you expecting this to debug every JTAGed AVR and every Cortex of Atmel?

Lets poll:

    A. Tied to this RF chip + Atmel's surprise B. Tied to this RF chip
    C. Tied to this family of RF chips
    D. Tied to a subset of AVRs
    (...)
    Y. Debugs everything within the range of the ribbon cable.
    Z. Y including PICs

And (generic remark) debugging any networked system is a PITA even if you have one debugger per node. You need to have a sophisticated software/IDE for that, with multiple instances of nodes, diagnostics, etc.

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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Quote:

I'm guessing someone like Morten simply couldn't confirm such a rumour if Atmel want...

True you are.

I can however point you to the brillian webdoc page for the rfr xpro kit.

I'm not really sure about using the RFR xpro kit to debug other devices. The SWD pins are mapped on the SAM xpro kits for this purpose, but I haven't really played with how the JTAG and the mega is...

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Microchip, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

 

The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.

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Quote:

point you to

And specifically I guess that means:

http://atmel.no/webdoc/mega256rf...
which in turn refers to:
http://atmel.no/webdoc/mega256rf...
http://atmel.no/webdoc/mega256rf...

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I like what I see here. ARM, RF, and a debugger. That is a good start Atmel. It would be nice to have a standard 10-pin SWD connector for optional external debugging on these boards too.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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Quote:

I like what I see here. ARM, RF, and a debugger.

??? Where do you see this? I thought the thread was about "ATmega256RFR2 Xplained Pro Starter Kit".

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:
I like what I see here. ARM, RF, and a debugger.

ARM??

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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No, foot. Misread the chip. :oops:

You can always wish for it though. :)

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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This is ARM, RF and a debugger.
Alternatively this one.

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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Thanks Brutte, I was really hoping it was Atmel that was providing an ARM solution similar to those and the ATmega RF boards mentioned above. I just don't get too exited by ATmega anymore.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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Never mind the ARM, but where is the 256K flash AVR with both wireless and OTG USB? That would be fun to play with!

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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And sorry, but no tests with the EDBG on the SAMD20 board this evening. I had the things out and realized that I needed that tiny flat cable w those tiny connectors. Dug deeper, and got the JTAGICE3 out, and its cables where the thing needed. Right about then I needed some food, and had a micro/TV meal.

Us Swedes are in the extremely pleasant situation that the third season of "Sherlock" is soon to be aired, and we are currently getting seasons 1 & 2 retransmits to up the interest (as if that would be necessary!).

Anyway, the "Irene Adler" episode came on, and I was stuck.

Bloody brilliant. Them Brits sure can make really good TV series. And this episode it marvelous! Intellectual challenges, drama, passion, really intelligent humor, spectator left in doubt, not everything being black or white, suspense, unexpected turnovers, well thought-out humor (Lestrade: "How many times did he fell out of the window?" Sherlock: "I don't know. I lost count") etc. And extremely good acting by all!

And yet to come is i) the last episode of the same second season - "The Final Solution". And then the new season starts - I am extremely curious how they have solved the resurrection. (If anyone already having seen this leaks anything or drops any spoiler I will have to kill you...)

If you haven't seen any of this and it comes up in any network near you - DO NOT MISS IT! More or less the best thing on the telly since the seminal Jeremy Brett interpretations circa 1980.

If you know your Sherlock Holmes (i.e. have read short stories and novels by Conan Doyle, or have seen the Jeremy Brett interpretations) you WILL enjoy this TV series extremely much!

Sorry for the OT..

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I've been a bit disappointed with the latest Sherlock episodes (since xmas), the wedding one was really below par. We've got the third one left to watch tomorrow night with wine and takeaway.

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meolsen wrote:
Quote:

I'm guessing someone like Morten simply couldn't confirm such a rumour if Atmel want...

True you are.

While this may be true, that doesn't stop someone like Morten to post publicly available information.

clawson wrote:

Yup I didn't mean the SAMD20 board might be able to debug AVR8's. Just that if Atmel have an across the board UC3 based debugger design they could stick it in a plastic case and put AVR+SAM firmware in it and call it a "debug everything box". They could lay it down on an ARM board, give it ARM firwmare and it debugs that. Lay it down on an AVR board, give it the AVR side of the firmware and it debugs that - just conjecture/speculation.

There is a separate, small, document about the EDBG located here. (Linked too from several of the Xplained Pro MCU boards)
While it does not confirm, nor deny, any theories it may be worth a quick read.

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Here is one more link to gain more information
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atme...

-Krishna Balan S

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Heroes are ordinary people with extraordinary commitment"

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Thanks chaps (you both linked to the same document in fact).

That's very interesting. What I take from that is:

(a) we can probably expect all future AVR/Xmega/UC3/SAM boards to have debugging built in (dare I say "about time!"?)

(b) I wonder if there's a possibility that already issued Xplained designs may be re-spun with an improved design to now include EDBG?

(c) while it won't kill Dragon/ICE3 sales completely I guess Atmel accept that there's less motivation to buy a separate debugger if all the dev boards you buy already have one. That's especially true if you can use the EDBG that's on a board to then debug something off board.

(d) Interesting to read chapter 2 which seems to suggest that there's just one, generic EDBG that can debug AVR, Xmega and ARM (no UC3??) so maybe it is the case that if you buy one board for just one of these processors that if it can also debug off-board then it can perhaps be used for the full range of things? (or is it "slugged" in some way so on an ARM board it can only do ARM??).

BTW nice find Johan, this is an interesting thread.

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Just if it isn't clear yet:

For the SAMD20 it has been confirmed here that it debugs off-board target systems. But it has also been noted that for ARMs Atmel has much lesser possibilities to "go proprietary" and keep the debugging protocols etc shut.

So, anyone know of a supplier that holds the same low prices as Atmels store, but charges $10 (rather than $50) for s/h? Even better if it is inside the EU, to avoid any possible customs trouble. Even better if they ship by ordinary mail, rather than courier (which always wants to come home and ddeliver when you're away for work, and then you have to drive 20 to 50 km to a pick-up depot).

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:
(a) we can probably expect all future AVR/Xmega/UC3/SAM boards to have debugging built in

No dW in EDBG -> "no tiny evals"?
Quote:
(b) I wonder if there's a possibility that already issued Xplained designs may be re-spun with an improved design to now include EDBG?

EDBG is a software layer. It does not have/need any tailored hardware for debugging. All these debugging protocols are synchronous (SPI-based).

Quote:
(c) while it won't kill Dragon/ICE3 sales completely (..)That's especially true if you can use the EDBG that's on a board to then debug something off board.

Aren't you expecting the reality to resemble an "F" scenario?
IMHO Atmel says "A" once again and I expect them to consequently use a similar "dirty marketing" as with STK600, AvrONCE, JTAGICEMk1, Dragon etc.

You do realize the $39 does not include shipping but includes tracking (encription chip with identification)? :twisted:
z3ghd

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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Quote:

EDBG is a software layer.

Yes but surely it relies on that AVR32-UC3 that actually does the wire wiggling to have been laid down on the PCB?

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Quote:
Yes but surely it relies on that AVR32-UC3

What I meant is that it does not matter which chip wiggles SPI. You can wiggle ARM Cortex-A8 with LPT or ATMega16 with IntelAtom - unless you use a synchronous protocol (like SPI, JTAG, SWD, .... ) you are free to use anything you want for wiggling (including a push-button) for tx/rx data. The problem starts when the protocol is asynchronous (like dW or USB or DALI or Ethernet) because then the timing constrains have to be met.

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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@Johan,

Farnell seem to have http://uk.farnell.com/atmel/atmega256rfr2-xstk/rfr2-xpld-pro-starter-kit/dp/2295526 in stock. The bare http://uk.farnell.com/atmel/atmega256rfr2-xpro/rfr2-xpld-pro-eval-board/dp/2295523 is awaiting delivery.

Mind you, I think that you will find that Mouser will deliver to Europe ok. Digikey, Arrow etc are more of a pain.

Regarding delivery. Why not get delivered to your work address?

Incidentally, I ordered some parts from Farnell at 18.30 on Wednesday. They were delivered to my front door at about 09.30 on Thursday. RS tends to take two days.

David.

Ah-ha. My scepticism about AVR debuggers was misplaced!!! Does the STK600 contain a suitable UC32 chip? I wonder if the STK600 was always intended to do debugging.

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Quote:
Regarding delivery. Why not get delivered to your work address?

Can't do. I'm a contractor, and currently sitting in a house with a few hundred engineers, on a site with many hundred employees incl the blue collars. It would not be popular if a lousy contrator started utilizing the posh entrance reception of the site.

I'll just have a look at Mouser. Its more than five years I ordered anything from them the previous time - but at that time their service/handling/delivery was very good, swift and correct.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Living in a village, I accept parcels for my neighbours and my neighbours accept parcels for me.

This works fine for most deliveries. However companies that choose to use DHL generally add customs, taxes, import duties, ...

I certainly would not pay ransoms on behalf of a neighbour, nor would I expect a neighbour to pay a ransom on my behalf. Hence, I avoid companies like Arrow US or Digikey US.

There is nothing worse than having to drive for miles to a Post Office and then queue for 30 minutes.

YMMV.

David.

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I did a few tests:

1. Set up a mega2560 project with the D20 Xplained board plugged in. No tool available to select except for Simulator. Only possible to change device to other 8-bit AVRs - quite expected.

2. Set up a SAMD20J18 project, with the D20 Xplained board plugged in.

2b. Can change to another D20 and EDBG tool still seems available in Studio. No possibility to select devices other than SAMs.

3. Set up a SAMD20J17 project with the D20 Xplained board plugged in. No tool available to select (drop down is empty).

4. Changed the project in 3. to have SAMD20J18 as device. Still no tool available.

5. Reopened the project in 1. Still the same.

6. Reopened the project from 2b and there is no tool available.

6b. Changed back to D20J18. Still no tool available.

6c. Closed the project and reopened it. Tool available.

So it seems the EDBG is varied/configured when being used on different boards. Or Studio also asks about Xplained board type. Or some such.

It is also clear that Studio checks/sets available tools upon opening the project. So to debug anything but the same device as on the Xplained board you'd have to start and save the project with that device selected, and then every time change the device to what you're actually wanting to debug.

Also, I had no possibility to test if Studio checks available tools also on starting a debug session. I had no other SAMD20 available. (And I will not have in the foreseeable future.

Whatever. Using a "SAMD20 EDBG" to debug an AVR is not straight forward, likely requires a lot of tinkering, and might be toppled by Atmel with any new version of Studio.

Using the "ATMega256RFR2 EDBG" to debug another AVR model will likely be just as awkward, if at all possible.

I will not dig further ATM.

Quote:
There is nothing worse than having to drive for miles to a Post Office and then queue for 30 minutes.

Dedicated post offices where abolished in Sweden 10 years ago or so. Swedish Post pickup places are mostly in ordinary grocery store/supermarkets. I have seldom been queuing for more than a few minutes to get a parcel or insured letter. And I need to go there anyway to get the bread, milk, cheese, sausage, eggs, bacon... Depending on where I'm based it's a 1 km / 5 min bike ride or a 10 km / 10 minute drive. Most often open until 8 or 9 in the evening. In most cases you get an SMS when the parcel is available at the pickup place.

Pickup places for courier services are 25 to 30 km drives from work (next town, or the nearest international airport in one case), and I have experienced waiting for an hour while someone goes looking for a 2x8x12 inch parcel in a 100x50x10 metre high-stack warehouse. And you need to pick a timing sweet-spot bracketed by when the delivery truck that failed to deliver because I was not at home at 11 in the morning or 2 in the afternoon has returned the parcel to the distribution centre, and when the place closes. In my world, parcel services are just not for private persons. It is totally designed for companies. This makes sense, so I'm not whining. It's just not for me - if I can avoid it.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I imagine the debuggers available to certain devices are dictated by entries in an XML somewhere.

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Quote:

I imagine the debuggers available to certain devices are dictated by entries in an XML somewhere.

Perhaps, but do note that my experiments also suggest/hint that with some tricks you can enable debugging of a(marginally) different device.

And that the EDBG platform seems to talk to Studio about what kind of system it supports.

OK, one more experiment: I will create a ATmega256RFR2 project and see if the SAMD20 EDBG platform is available.

EDIT: Nope. I'm done with this for the time being.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Well Morten must be asleep.

The embedded debugger on the Xplained Pro boards is firmware locked to the family of device on the board itself, and with the exception of the SAM D20 one they do not have breakouts. That said, it's a fast, otherwise unrestricted full debugger for the chips, so they make for excellent debug and development breakout platforms.

Before anyone gets too excited: the EBDG is custom silicon, so even if you worked out how to decrypt the firmware (you won't) it won't be of any use without the non-publicly orderable silicon.

The EBDG can do ARMs as well as AVRs, since the CMSIS protocol allows for custom commands to be sent in a vendor defined outer wrapper.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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larryvc wrote:
I like what I see here. ARM, RF, and a debugger. That is a good start Atmel. It would be nice to have a standard 10-pin SWD connector for optional external debugging on these boards too.

JohanEkdahl wrote:
Never mind the ARM, but where is the 256K flash AVR with both wireless and OTG USB? That would be fun to play with!

Done and almost done, at least there is USB and 256K flash: SAM R21 Xplained Pro.
EDIT: Does not support debugging external targets unfortunately.

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clawson wrote:
Just that if Atmel have an across the board UC3 based debugger design they could stick it in a plastic case and put AVR+SAM firmware in it and call it a "debug everything box".

This is the "Atmel debug everything box" ;)
It even comes at a lower price point if you don't want the plastic casing, cables and all that crap.

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Quote:

It even comes at a lower price point

Finally! Atmel sees the light. A miracle!

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Note that he said "without the cables" which IIRC means without the target connector cables too. Still, perhaps this will finally stop people from buying Dragons...

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:

Still, perhaps this will finally stop people from buying Dragons...

Depends how robust the PSU circuitry is I guess ;-)

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clawson wrote:
Quote:

It even comes at a lower price point

Finally! Atmel sees the light. A miracle!
Amen.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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duzern wrote:
Done and almost done, at least there is USB and 256K flash: SAM R21 Xplained Pro.
EDIT: Does not support debugging external targets unfortunately.
Not a bad board for US$39. It would be nice for them to fix the link to the store as it is pointing to the D21 instead.

The store link is http://store.atmel.com/PartDetai...

Currently sold out.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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Sorry duzern, but the USB seems to be on board but not in the SAM R21 as such.

I believe it is supplied/implemented by the debug chip on-board just as for other Xplained cards - and is device only.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Sorry duzern, but the USB seems to be on board but not in the SAM R21 as such.

I believe it is supplied/implemented by the debug chip on-board just as for other Xplained cards - and is device only.

Are you sure Johan. There are two USB ports on the board. One for debugging and one for target (host?). I am not sure, that is why I am asking.

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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I chose the words "seems" and "believe" with some care, Larry.

Still, there is no USB mentioned among the parameters on the SAM R21 product page: http://www.atmel.com/devices/ats... .

I tried to double-ceck with a data sheet, but switching to the Douments tab I could not find any.

Either it is well hidden or someone has been playing saxophone again..

(For more fun, look at the Tools tab. The Xplained board mentioned by duzern is not there, but the ATmega256RFR2 Xplained board is.)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:
This is the "Atmel debug everything box"

OMCD! (Thats "[...]copulating deity").

It looks like a JTAGICE3 with an extra connector (and new firmware), and at 85% the price of it (45% of the original price for those who paid that)!

I hope my money has made someone happy.

Anyway there is more of it coming Atmels way it seems. Needless to say, I absolutely need one of these debuggers although I do't really need one. Just need to get a total on the shopping list large enough so that it outweighs the shipping cost doubled or so.

Rant: You know the realtively small boxes that the Xplained cards come in? Order one and the shipping is $43 to Sweden. Order two and the shipping jumps to $50. Seve n bucks extra for a few grams extra?!? Two of those would easily fit in a largeish padded envelope and would reach me just as fast by air mail as the courier service they use - since it will take at least three days extra for me and the courier to agree on that the parcel should be at the pickup point at a certain evening, the pickup point should be open, and I should be prepared for the 50-75 km round trip drive. (No I'm not at home when the courier van is at my home, no I can not direct the delivery to my workplace.) Add the possibility to get stuck in customs, pay a few bucks for the actual customs duty, but perhaps $>20 for the handling/paperwork. Don't get lured in by the relatively low prices at Atmels web-shop.

The pricing of the different Atmel-ICE is also a good lesson that it is the perceived market value etc, rather than the actual cost that determines prices. The cost of a casing (same quality is the JTAGICE3, which is not impressive), a flat cable with connectors, a squid cable (again with the same quality as the one coming with JTAGICE3, which is not impressive), one USB cable and an adaptor PCB is not $53.

I don't think Atmel really gets it all the way yet. For that they should have priced the case-with-cables variant even lower, not offered the bare one at all and retracted the Dragon from market.

Will I buy one (the boxed-with-cables)? Hell, yeah!

:D

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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And on my birthday too!
What a shame they couldn't have released this a month or so ago, before I wasted my money on the SAM ICE.

Four legs good, two legs bad, three legs stable.

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