So for me dropping AVR-GCC support, or just not updating it, means I will probably not ever switch to MPLAB or use new parts that are currently not supported. In fact, it's time to consider alternatives, maybe ARM since then I'm not tied to one vendor.
They aren't dropping AVR-GCC. They just moved AVR-GCC to be packaged with the rest of XC8 and put a wrapper in XC8 to put in front of avrgcc in MPLAB to hold -O2 and -O3 for ransom.
I fear you have entirely missed my point. I deliberately used (and used color highlighting to make the point) -O0 to show what you can get from a C compiler that is not optimising. I'm not saying this is a "good thing". In fact if you look at my signature then point #4 has been saying this very thing for more than a decade! But what I'm saying is that a compiler that makes no attempt to optimise can be ATROCIOUS in its code generation (gcc is!). The suggestion had been that the difference between optimisation on/off might be a 5..10% issue. My point was that it might be a case of code bloated by a factor of 10 or 20 or worse.!!
So no optimisation if not a "minor inconvenience" - it is "totally unusable".
I imagine that people who charge money to have optimisation switched on know this
Ah sorry, completely misread it. I thought you were showing that Microchip was breaking avrgcc ;)
For quite some time, XC8 free mode was intentionally adding extra jmps and nops to a ridiculous degree, like beyond acceptable for no optimization. I remember seeing some university professor throwing a fit they are dropping PICs from their cirriculum as they couldn't begin to explain to students the absurdity of the output.
Microchip did finally.....remove that gimping a year later (1.4 I think?)
If you go over the Microchip forums you will see a night and day difference. No real community
I think you can see somewhat similar between AVRFreaks and the other so-called "communities" here?
As someone said (complained, actually) in another manufacturer's forum: there is a big difference between just opening a forum, and actually building a community.
Sometimes I take a look at the ARM forum, but the questions are just not interesting to me, most of the time. Stuff about ASF and Atmel Start that apparently are full of bugs? Booooriiiing! I don't care in the least about that. That's a job for Atm... Microchip staff.
For quite some time, XC8 free mode was intentionally adding extra jmps and nops to a ridiculous degree, like beyond acceptable for no optimization.
I remember seeing some university professor throwing a fit they are dropping PICs from their cirriculum as they couldn't begin to explain to students the absurdity of the output.
Microchip did finally.....remove that gimping a year later (1.4 I think?)
Hehe, nothing like throwing daylight on the sneaky tricks, to have them quietly dropped ... :)
Wow, I'm surprised. After doubling the price of the debuggers overnight following the take-over of Atmel I thought we would be stuck with over-priced tools forever.
The presentation video says it has an 8 pin connector.
Yes, $15 is cheap indeed, I suppose it's their way of nudging people away from AS7 to MPLab. It seems to be working, since I feel an urge to buy one, but not now... maybe next time Microchip has a free shipping offer.
I'm surprised Microchip have not moved to a more efficient programming header yet. Considering Atmel give you full program and debug with one pin these days...
At least they seem to have recongized that their own debuggers were crap. The description of the Snap even mentions that you don't have to download a new OS when changing parts (or recover from bricking when it fails).
Nice is a zero price compiler for a 16b MCU with 20b pointers (FSF MSP430 GCC, TI MSP430 GCC with Mitto Systems) and a multi-platform debugger interface (third party IDE support)
MSP430TM does lack an EBI that's present in some megaAVR, XMEGA AU, and PIC24.
An Arduino sketch differs from a standard C program in that it misses a main (provided by the Arduino core), function prototypes are not mandatory, and libraries inclusion is automagic (you just have to #include them). This tool generates function prototypes and gathers library paths, providing gcc with all the needed -I params.
This has been made possible due to our open-source fork of the Arduino builder tool that can report the detailed structure of the project and all involved libraries, so VisualGDB knows exactly what it’s dealing with.
...
VisualGDB 5.4 Preview 4 comes with out-of-the-box support for Arduino devices based on AVR, ARM, ESP8266 and ESP32 architectures.
I don't think so, there are some ticket vending machines here that sometimes get exposed to near total sunlight. The background is dark blue (colour LCD), and very difficult to read.
Hmm, thanks - that's for MPLAB PICkit 4 pinout, and it's not clear if that's 2 headers, or all on one ? ( VTG is pin 2 on both tables )
I was assuming(hoping?) you could run Debug and any mix of i2c/UART/SPI, but maybe it's Debug and one of i2c/UART/SPI, or is it even Debug on one dongle, and another is needed per i2c/UART/SPI ?
Testing it out. Tried to import a basic Atmel Studio project and got this:
It says at the bottom it's not used... Okay... What do you want from me? Went with the default.
Project was imported. Build fails with linker errors.
No "find all references". Syntax highlighting barely works. No auto-completion or suggestions. No dark mode. Looks like something out of the 1990s. Built on Java.
Thanks El Tangas, that made it much better. No need to burn my retina out now. Syntax highlighting seems much better too.
The linker settings were imported but are broken somehow:
I ended up doing it manually because I can't find any documentation on the format of these strings.
It now compiles and even works. One other issue I found is that it defaults to stupidly long path names, so for example the output file here is "<project dir>/joystick.X/dist/Release/production/joystick.X.production.hex". This might cause path length problems on Windows.
I tried importing another project but it gets stuck because there are pre-build events and nothing happens when you click "finish" in the "import project" window. I tried deleting the pre-build stuff in Atmel Studio but MPLAB still failed... I guess there is an empty XML string or something that is confusing it.
Unfortunately the editor is terrible. Code browsing and completion features are extremely basic. With the old MPLAB 8 it was so bad that we used to do most of the editing in Visual Studio and just compile with MPLAB. MPLAB X looks like it will be the same, which is very annoying because it's much better if you have debugging in the primary editor. I know it's beta so can forgive the import issues, but the editor has been crap for years with no sign of improvement.
I know this is a beta version, but I just started and already found 2 bugs. One is that the syntax highlighter doesn't recognize the "constexpr" specifier introduced in C++11; the other one is that when you select "Relax branches" in the compiler options checkbox, nothing actually happens. You need to add "-mrelax" manually to the compiler options.
The linker settings were imported but are broken somehow:
I tried importing another project but it gets stuck because there are pre-build events and nothing happens when you click "finish" in the "import project" window. I tried deleting the pre-build stuff in Atmel Studio but MPLAB still failed... I guess there is an empty XML string or something that is confusing it.
I can't share the other I'm afraid as it belongs to the company. Basically it has some pre and post compilation commands to take a bootloader.o file and link it in to the main application firmware, creating a combined image:
I can't share the other I'm afraid as it belongs to the company. Basically it has some pre and post compilation commands to take a bootloader.o file and link it in to the main application firmware, creating a combined image:
The problem I have is that I can't close the import window. It gets to here:
And clicking on "Finish" does nothing. I get the same error message about the pre build event action that you do, but can't proceed. If I click anything else like the close button or cancel the project doesn't load.
[install libraries, build sketches, output JSON, arm and x86/x86_64, multi-platform]
...
Getting Started
...
[alpha preview]
...
As usual, it’s open source – but if you’re a company who wants to use it to create a customized tool, you can also contact us for a commercial license.
Integrate Arduino Support Into Your Preferred Platform
...
We want you to be able to add Arduino support to whatever development flow you prefer. Whether you use Atom, Eclipse, Emacs, Vim, VSCode, or are even building your own tools, Arduino CLI makes this possible. Let us know what you think!
The problem I have is that I can't close the import window.
And clicking on "Finish" does nothing. I get the same error message about the pre build event action that you do, but can't proceed. If I click anything else like the close button or cancel the project doesn't load.
It looks like one of the Configuration name has space in it due to which you see this behavior. Modify the Configuration name in the project file and import it.
MDB, modeled after the popular open source GNU debugger (GDB), is a utility that provides command line access and scripting capabilities for the integrated debugger used by MPLAB® X IDE.
The majority of AVR MCUs are now beta supported with the release of MPLAB X Integrated Development Environment (IDE) version 5.05, available today from Microchip Technology Inc. (Nasdaq: MCHP). Support for additional AVR MCUs and enhancements will be added in future MPLAB versions. AVR support will continue to be added to Atmel Studio 7 and Atmel START for current and future AVR devices. For more information visit: www.microchip.com/AVRandMPLAB.
...
MCC [MPLAB Code Configurator] can also generate code for specific development boards, such as Microchip’s Curiosity ATmega4809 Nano (DM320115) development board and existing AVR Xplained development boards.
[AVR GCC, MPLAB XC8, MPLAB PICkit 4, MPLAB Snap]
...
"Traditional AVR MCU programmers can also stay with Atmel Studio 7, as we are continuing to offer new device support, add enhancements and implement bug fixes as needed.” - Steve Drehobl (Microchip VP, 8-bit MCU)
Development Support
...
Pricing and Availability
...
The ATmega4809 Curiosity Nano board (DM320115) is available today for $10.00.
They aren't dropping AVR-GCC. They just moved AVR-GCC to be packaged with the rest of XC8 and put a wrapper in XC8 to put in front of avrgcc in MPLAB to hold -O2 and -O3 for ransom.
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TopAh sorry, completely misread it. I thought you were showing that Microchip was breaking avrgcc ;)
For quite some time, XC8 free mode was intentionally adding extra jmps and nops to a ridiculous degree, like beyond acceptable for no optimization. I remember seeing some university professor throwing a fit they are dropping PICs from their cirriculum as they couldn't begin to explain to students the absurdity of the output.
Microchip did finally.....remove that gimping a year later (1.4 I think?)
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TopSometimes I take a look at the ARM forum, but the questions are just not interesting to me, most of the time. Stuff about ASF and Atmel Start that apparently are full of bugs? Booooriiiing! I don't care in the least about that. That's a job for Atm... Microchip staff.
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TopHehe, nothing like throwing daylight on the sneaky tricks, to have them quietly dropped ... :)
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TopMPLAB X 5.05
from its 'Readme for MPLAB X IDE.htm'
'11 What's New in v5.05' :
'15.6 IDE Issues' (SSR, Description, Devices Affected) :
http://www.microchip.com/mplab/mplab-x-ide (Downloads tab, Release Notes)
https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/mplab-snap
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopInteresting dongle, based on SAM E70 also. Only about $15....
What I'm not clear about is how can they do avr SPI programming with only two pins and reset....
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TopWow, I'm surprised. After doubling the price of the debuggers overnight following the take-over of Atmel I thought we would be stuck with over-priced tools forever.
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TopThe presentation video says it has an 8 pin connector.
Yes, $15 is cheap indeed, I suppose it's their way of nudging people away from AS7 to MPLab. It seems to be working, since I feel an urge to buy one, but not now... maybe next time Microchip has a free shipping offer.
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TopI'm surprised Microchip have not moved to a more efficient programming header yet. Considering Atmel give you full program and debug with one pin these days...
At least they seem to have recongized that their own debuggers were crap. The description of the Snap even mentions that you don't have to download a new OS when changing parts (or recover from bricking when it fails).
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TopOne of Microchip's AVR competition is Silicon Labs and their ToolStick.
https://www.silabs.com/products/development-tools/mcu/8-bit/8bit-mcu-accessories/toolstick
Another AVR competitor is Texas Instruments MSP430TM and the debugger (eZ-FET with breakouts) on LaunchPad.
http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp430fr6989
via https://docs.platformio.org/en/latest/plus/debug-tools/mspdebug.html#boards
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopHaving tried MSP430 I wasn't that impressed. Some stuff is nice like FRAM but the architecture is crusty like the 8 bit PICs.
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TopNice is a zero price compiler for a 16b MCU with 20b pointers (FSF MSP430 GCC, TI MSP430 GCC with Mitto Systems) and a multi-platform debugger interface (third party IDE support)
MSP430TM does lack an EBI that's present in some megaAVR, XMEGA AU, and PIC24.
https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-8.2.0/gcc/MSP430-Options.html#MSP430-Options
http://software-dl.ti.com/msp430/msp430_public_sw/mcu/msp430/MSPGCC/latest/index_FDS.html
via http://www.ti.com/tool/msp430-gcc-opensource
http://gnutoolchains.com/msp430/
http://www.ti.com/tool/MSPDS
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopSo, I installed this MPLab thing to take a look, and it seems familiar. This is a version of NetBeans, right?
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TopYes.
Edit : Overview
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopNice! Now I'll install the Darcula plugin, I prefer dark background.
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TopArduino has a tool for building sketches that might become a part of MPLAB X.
via
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIs a dark background effective for almost full sunlight conditions?
Reason : shade tree embedded systems design
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopI don't think so, there are some ticket vending machines here that sometimes get exposed to near total sunlight. The background is dark blue (colour LCD), and very difficult to read.
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TopThey also mention i2c and COM connections, so those must be via those other pins, near the MCU
- but the DOCs fail to expand on that ?
Does anyone have a Schematic link, or more info on how you can access the listed i2c/SPI/CDD UART/USART DGI (did they mean CDC UART ?)
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Tophttp://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
from MPLAB X 5.05 Readme :
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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Tophttps://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/mplab-snap#comment-2536396
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopHmm, thanks - that's for MPLAB PICkit 4 pinout, and it's not clear if that's 2 headers, or all on one ? ( VTG is pin 2 on both tables )
I was assuming(hoping?) you could run Debug and any mix of i2c/UART/SPI, but maybe it's Debug and one of i2c/UART/SPI, or is it even Debug on one dongle, and another is needed per i2c/UART/SPI ?
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Topedit : debug or ...
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIs there a SCH anywhere, that says what J2 does ?
The pdf just says pins 7 & 8 are NC ?
Addit:
Does anyone have a MPLAB Snap they can check the CDC Baud rates on ? Curious to know what baud values it can accept/generate ?
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Top"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopTesting it out. Tried to import a basic Atmel Studio project and got this:
It says at the bottom it's not used... Okay... What do you want from me? Went with the default.
Project was imported. Build fails with linker errors.
No "find all references". Syntax highlighting barely works. No auto-completion or suggestions. No dark mode. Looks like something out of the 1990s. Built on Java.
What a load of crap.
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TopWait, I can help with at least this one. First download this plugin: http://plugins.netbeans.org/plug...
Then install it via "Tools">"Plugins", "Downloaded" tab, "Add Plugins" button.
Edit: I imported a couple of AS7 projects successfully. The problem is, compiler and linker settings are not imported, you have to set them manually.
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TopThanks El Tangas, that made it much better. No need to burn my retina out now. Syntax highlighting seems much better too.
The linker settings were imported but are broken somehow:
I ended up doing it manually because I can't find any documentation on the format of these strings.
It now compiles and even works. One other issue I found is that it defaults to stupidly long path names, so for example the output file here is "<project dir>/joystick.X/dist/Release/production/joystick.X.production.hex". This might cause path length problems on Windows.
I tried importing another project but it gets stuck because there are pre-build events and nothing happens when you click "finish" in the "import project" window. I tried deleting the pre-build stuff in Atmel Studio but MPLAB still failed... I guess there is an empty XML string or something that is confusing it.
Unfortunately the editor is terrible. Code browsing and completion features are extremely basic. With the old MPLAB 8 it was so bad that we used to do most of the editing in Visual Studio and just compile with MPLAB. MPLAB X looks like it will be the same, which is very annoying because it's much better if you have debugging in the primary editor. I know it's beta so can forgive the import issues, but the editor has been crap for years with no sign of improvement.
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TopI know this is a beta version, but I just started and already found 2 bugs. One is that the syntax highlighter doesn't recognize the "constexpr" specifier introduced in C++11; the other one is that when you select "Relax branches" in the compiler options checkbox, nothing actually happens. You need to add "-mrelax" manually to the compiler options.
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TopCreated bug MPLABX-3701 and MPLABX-3702 for these two.
:: Morten
(yes, I work for Microchip, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)
The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.
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TopCould you attach the Atmel Studio project file?
Regards,
Charles
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TopThe one with the linker settings is here: https://github.com/kuro68k/Super...
I can't share the other I'm afraid as it belongs to the company. Basically it has some pre and post compilation commands to take a bootloader.o file and link it in to the main application firmware, creating a combined image:
Pre:
Post:
Thanks for looking at this.
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TopLinker Settings is a bug.
For the pre-build and post-build event shared here, I am able to successfully import into MPLAB X.
If possible create a sample project with pre-build and post-build events and share it, that will reproduce the issue.
It gives a warning during the import which is valid because the Macros used are specific to Atmel Studio.
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TopThe problem I have is that I can't close the import window. It gets to here:
And clicking on "Finish" does nothing. I get the same error message about the pre build event action that you do, but can't proceed. If I click anything else like the close button or cancel the project doesn't load.
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Top"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopCould you share the .cproj file ?
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TopPM sent.
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Topfollowing in the footsteps of mbed again!
Top Tips:
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TopIt looks like one of the Configuration name has space in it due to which you see this behavior. Modify the Configuration name in the project file and import it.
<PropertyGroup Condition=" '$(Configuration)' == 'Combined_Bootloader' ">
Regards,
Charles
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TopThanks... Maybe they can convert spaced to underscores in the importer.
I'll try it and see if it builds.
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TopDebugger Adapter Board (MPLAB ICD 4 and MPLAB PICkit 4 to Atmel-ICE cables and etc) is on an October sale at nearly half off.
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopNot applicable as there's MDB.
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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Tophttps://www.microchip.com/mplab/mplab-x-ide
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopYou must get these announcements early.
I don't see a "buy" link on that page, and I don't see the board in the microchipdirect store, either.
I wonder how Arduino feels about being undersold by their chip provider :-(
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Topversus Arduino Uno WiFi rev 2 :
https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/megaavr-0-series?page=1#comment-2560936
though that's an apples and oranges comparison.
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopWas willing to give up an e-mail address at that via
the discount is 25% until 31-Dec'18 on :
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopStill can't get an actual buy-link to the 4809 Xplained Nano - "Product not found" and similar.
On the bright side, I was able to use MPLAB to debug code on my Xplained Pro 4809, from my Mac!
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Tophttps://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails/DM320115
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopMPLAB XC8 is C99; C11 is in Microchip and FSF AVR GCC.
MPLAB- XC Compilers | Microchip Technology
AVR- and Arm- Toolchains (C Compilers) | Microchip Technology
https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-8.2.0/gcc/Standards.html#C-Language
https://plus.google.com/+MicrochipTech/posts/dms5YC7Jmgo
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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Top250USD minus 100USD (Nov'18 dev tool sale)
via DEVELOPMENT TOOL DEALS microchipDIRECT
per Octopart, the ones at Farnell may have responded.
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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