CH340G IC vendor.....

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 03:05 AM
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Finishing the design phase of a small job and the USB port is the last part to put together.  I have been using some CH340G USB/TTL modules, and they work great if I load the driver manually, or wait 15 minutes for windows to find it online from goodness knows where.  I have also used the FTDI with the same results, although Windows finds the drivers a little faster.

 

I am having a bit of a difficult time finding a vendor for the CH340G IC that is not selling beads, dresses and other items.  While this design fro the moment is a 5 piece order, if the client likes the design enough it could/will mean more orders so I really cannot afford to screw this up.

 

The other issue is that the USB needs to work with both a MAC and a PC which gives the FTDI an edge as I have never tested a CH340G IC on a MAC so I have nothing to compare.

 

Essentially the USB needs to not require the end user to have to search for drivers and manually install if I can help it.  I also though am looking at my bottom line and while the FTDI is not terribly expensive at $2.38 each, this number can add up.

 

Any recommendations on a vendor?  Any experience with the CH340G and a MAC?

 

Jim

 

* Added the 'G' suffix for accuracy. Ross. *

 

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

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Learning and Information, General Electronics
Last Edited: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 07:48 AM
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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 03:12 AM
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jgmdesign wrote:

..  I also though am looking at my bottom line and while the FTDI is not terribly expensive at $2.38 each, this number can add up.

 

Any recommendations on a vendor?  Any experience with the CH340 and a MAC?

 

Why not look at the CP2102N ?  - No crystal needed.

Findchips shows that as low as $1.26 1 off ?

 

I think the CH340 dates from back when these parts still used a (12MHz) crystal ?

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valusoft
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Posted by valusoft: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 03:24 AM
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/...

 

There are others also Jim. Such as...

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/...

 

... and

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/...

 

 

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

Last Edited: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 03:30 AM
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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 03:49 AM
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Ross...

Those prices are certainly reasonable.  Great finds.  I hadn't thought about aliexpress...I was searching alibaba and the results were more bulk quantities than I could ever use.

 

Who-me...

$1.26 is certainly much more reasonable than the one I was looking at, but I will have to see what it's specs are at low and high temperatures as this thing may be subjected to some extreme temps at times.

 

Great finds by you both, Thanks!

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 04:10 AM
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jgmdesign wrote:

....

$1.26 is certainly much more reasonable than the one I was looking at, but I will have to see what it's specs are at low and high temperatures as this thing may be subjected to some extreme temps at times.

...

 

The data says  -40 to +85 °C, which is more extreme than the  average user can tolerate  ;)

 

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Kartman
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Posted by Kartman: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 07:53 AM
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I'd suggest the ch340 is probably not a good choice due to ongoing driver support on OSX.

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 10:34 AM
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FTDI it is then

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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El Tangas
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Posted by El Tangas: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 11:17 AM
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I don't understand these chinese manufacturers, they don't care about western markets?

The manufacturer of the ch340 doesn't even have an english version of their website: http://www.wch.cn/

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valusoft
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Posted by valusoft: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 11:37 AM
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With the size of the domestic Chinese market, it is not a surprise to me. The hobbyist customers are probably more of a nuisance... even at a 1000 a day .

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 06:26 PM (Reply to #2)
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Who-me wrote:
Why not look at the CP2102N ?  - No crystal needed.
Likewise with Cypress.

Microchip - MCP2221 is no crystal; MCP2200 with a 12MHz resonator.

Cypress Semiconductor

Cypress Semiconductor

USB-Serial Bridge Controller

http://www.cypress.com/products/usb-serial-bridge-controller

(Features tab)

...

Full-Speed USB controller with Integrated termination resistors, voltage regulator, on-chip oscillator and Flash – no external components required

...

Microchip Technology Inc

Microchip

USB Bridges

http://www.microchip.com/design-centers/usb/usb-hubs-and-devices/products/usb-bridges

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/sparkfun-usb-uart-breakout-cy7c65213-hookup-guide

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/MCP2200

http://www.microchip.com/DevelopmentTools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=ADM00393 (MCP2200 Breakout Module)

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/MCP2221A

http://www.microchip.com/DevelopmentTools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=ADM00559 (MCP2221 Breakout Module)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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JoniS
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Posted by JoniS: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 06:31 PM
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jgmdesign wrote:
FTDI it is then Jim

 

Use caution with the  FT_prog software if you need it... killed my keyboard TWICE, and also from my experience atmel ice tool attached to PC makes the software force close, this on windows 10 atleast.

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 06:33 PM (Reply to #8)
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https://www.olimex.com/Products/Breadboarding/BB-CH340T/resources/CH340DS1.PDF

via

https://www.olimex.com/Products/Breadboarding/BB-CH340T/open-source-hardware

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 06:52 PM
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jgmdesign wrote:
Essentially the USB needs to not require the end user to have to search for drivers and manually install if I can help it.
If the USB bridge enumerates as USB HID then no drivers are needed (USB HID is a built-it part of Linux, macOS, and Windows)

If the USB bridge enumerates as USB CDC ACM then

  • Linux - no driver
  • macOS - I don't know
  • Windows 10 - no driver
  • Windows 8.1 and previous - INF and usbser.sys

 

Microsoft logo

Microsoft Windows USB Core Team Blog

What is new with Serial in Windows 10

by George Roussos

July 29, 2015

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/usbcoreblog/2015/07/29/what-is-new-with-serial-in-windows-10/

...

 

1.   Improved Serial over USB driver support in Windows 10

...

In Windows 10, we added inbox support for USB CDC Abstract Control Model (ACM) compliant hardware. Usbser.sys is now installed as a compatible ID match for USB CDC compliant hardware, without requiring a 3rd party driver or inclusion via modem INFs.

Now devices that report these compatible IDs: 

  • USB\Class_02&SubClass_02&Prot_01
  • USB\Class_02&SubClass_02

… including popular prototyping boards like Arduinos – just work with our built-in driver.  

...

Microchip Technology Inc

Microchip

USB Bridges

http://www.microchip.com/design-centers/usb/usb-hubs-and-devices/products/usb-bridges

...

 

USB to UART/SPI Bridge

  • Class 02h – USB to UART comm and I/O control
  • Class 03h – HID: I/O Control, EEPROM access

...

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/MCP2200_MCP2221_CDC_Mac_Readme.txt

 

Edit : Microchip macOS URL

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 07:08 PM
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theusch
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Posted by theusch: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 07:46 PM
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jgmdesign wrote:
I am having a bit of a difficult time finding a vendor for the CH340G IC that is not selling beads, dresses and other items.

From the previous sentence, I'm guessing you are looking for the module?  Or is that just the IC?

 

 

So while DigiKey and Mouser don't have any stock right now, it appears they can get them.

 

[found via Octopart search]

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 07:57 PM
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gchapman wrote:

Microchip - MCP2221 is no crystal; 

Interesting - lower highest baud, of only 460k, and no handshake lines, just TX,RX

However, it can do i2c, which could be useful, and offers gull wing packages.

Costs more than CP2102N ( which can do 3~4MBd, & comes with handshake lines )

 

gchapman wrote:

Cypress CY7C65211A

Better baud rates, and has UART/i2c/SPI, and CapSense, Claims 3MHz on UART, SPI, so similar to CP2102N and FTDI parts.

Much higher price than CP2102N.

There is a dual channel version, CY7C65215,  which looks cheaper than FT2232D

Less clear is if their SPI includes JTAG use (as FTDI manage).

 

Another player is EXAR  XR21V1410 - this one has the highest BAUD ability of any FS USB bridge I tested. You can set up to 12MBd, and it can sustain close to 9MBd rates.

This part also manages 9-bit UART modes.

 

Last time I checked the EXAR driver, it failed when sending a single block/file > 100k

 

 

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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 08:07 PM
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theusch wrote:

From the previous sentence, I'm guessing you are looking for the module?  Or is that just the IC?

So while DigiKey and Mouser don't have any stock right now, it appears they can get them.

 

Wow, those are low Module prices (even if they do use the ancient USB connector, likely that's virtually free in alleys in China).

I see Seeed has no stock of CH340G but they do have stocks of a $1.95 PL2303 USB to Serial (TTL)  module.

They do have stocks of a CH340T  module at $7.95, claims Supports baud rate varies from 2400bps to 115200bps. 

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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 08:25 PM
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JoniS wrote:

jgmdesign wrote:
FTDI it is then Jim

 

Use caution with the  FT_prog software if you need it... killed my keyboard TWICE, and also from my experience atmel ice tool attached to PC makes the software force close, this on windows 10 atleast.

FTDI got themselves into big trouble with an aggressive attack driver, that could disable users systems without warning.

Many designers now avoid them entirely, where they can.

As you see, plenty of other choices in the USB Bridge space - many cheaper.

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 08:36 PM (Reply to #15)
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Who-me wrote:
[MCP2221] ... and no handshake lines, just TX,RX
UART DTS DTR would be handy to reset the MCU as DTS DTR is available via the serial driver (Linux, Windows, and likely also macOS)

In lieu of, the MCP2221 DLL can be used to toggle one GPIO (in Windows either via .NET or direct)

Who-me wrote:
[CY7C65215] Less clear is if their SPI includes JTAG use (as FTDI manage).
400KHz JTAG is in CY7C65215; instead of JTAG, CY7C65215A has RS485 and 8-pin UART.

 

http://www.cypress.com/part/cy7c65215-32ltxit

 

Edit : strikethrus

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Sun. Apr 16, 2017 - 07:47 PM
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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Fri. Mar 17, 2017 - 09:12 PM
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gchapman wrote:

Who-me wrote:
[CY7C65215] Less clear is if their SPI includes JTAG use (as FTDI manage).
400KHz JTAG is in CY7C65215; instead of JTAG, CY7C65215A has RS485 and 8-pin UART.

Interesting detail - I had only downloaded the '211 data, wrongly thinking the Dual would have the same features. I did see JTAG on the brochure, hence my puzzled comment...

Why only 400KHz when SPI claims 3M ? - I guess they bit-bash the JTAG to allow any number of bits ?

 

Also says this

"Note:  When  JTAG  is  enabled,  other  interfaces  in  the CY7C65215/CY7C65215A device cannot be used."

FTDI allow one JTAG and one UART, which is a very common FPGA Eval usage.

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Someguy22
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Posted by Someguy22: Sat. Mar 18, 2017 - 02:26 PM
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jgmdesign wrote:
FTDI it is then Jim

 

That is the decision to make. Mentioned earlier, OSX has driver hassles as does Windows. Check out this App Note for a utility you can use to change the device descriptor to something like "JMGdesign". I don't remember how I did it, but when I brought my programmer into work it was re-programmed to display my name so there would be no question as to ownership.

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Sat. Mar 18, 2017 - 02:33 PM
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I will look into that for sure!
Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Sat. Mar 18, 2017 - 08:08 PM (Reply to #19)
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Some context for JTAG via CY7C65215 :

OpenOCD 0.10.0 release is out

January 22nd, 2017

http://openocd.org/2017/01/openocd-0-10-0-release-is-out/

...

 

JTAG Layer:

...

  • OpenJTAG support for Cypress CY7C65215

...

PIC32 has JTAG; PIC32MX is in OpenOCD.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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