I just had a fast look at the new datasheet and the school kid had been asked to copy an other instruction set table to it, so now clk cycles is pure guess! (I guess take the fast since the PC is 16 bit)
It's really sad that they never have taken the engineering part serious, "just let's us make some fine sales posters nobody will read them" is a safe way to keep engineers away.
Now MTB in Cortex M - that's another thing - that is a feature really worth having!
Not sure of Atmel Cortex M do it but NXP ones do and in CodeRed they do this wonderful "receding color display" to show where in the code the PC has recently been. (it's a bit like the flight path display of landing planes on flightradar24 if anyone is familiar with that?)
EDIT: forgot to say that there is a "cost" involved. You have to set aside something like 1K of RAM in the chip to act as the MTB. As the CPU executes it cyclically logs where it's been in that buffer. At the next breakpoint it uses the data to show the last N instructions executed.
Oh dear I just realised I have to use AS7.........
Heh, I just arrived at the same conclusion.
But how should I do it?
1: Let AS7 upgrade my existing AS6.2 (assuming that it even attempts to do that). Does that work, or am I asking for trouble?
2: Install AS7 in a new dir and keep my AS6.2. Is it possible? How about USB drivers for programmers/debuggers? Can I seamlessly use one or the other whenever I please?
3: Uninstall AS6.2 and then do a clean install of AS7. Hopefully I can still build old projects in AS7 if the need should arise.
I had a 6.2 and just installed 7 without dealing with 6.2. and that seems to work (I just checked that 6.2 still run , (but I only think that I have ASM peojects)).
I have not converted anything from 6 to 7 that could be an other story
Yeah, why make a unified memory but remove access to the register file? ... And you're right, with this arrangement, LPM and LD become kind of redundant...
Atmel
AVR42789: Writing to Flash on the New tinyAVR Platform Using Assembly
(file size: 106KB, 6 pages, revision A, updated: 11/2016)
(new tinyAVR are ATtiny417, ATtiny814, ATtiny816, ATtiny817)
...
1. What has Changed
...
This means that it (flash) shares the same address space and instructions as SRAM, EEPROM, and I/O registers.
This data space is accessible through the use of LD/ST instructions in assembly.
Previously, on some of the older Tiny devices flash has been accessible only through the LPM and SPM instructions.
In the new tinyAVR devices the LPM instruction still exists, but not the SPM instruction.
...
1.1. What This Means and How to Adapt
...
If existing assembly code that writes to flash is to be ported from older to new tinyAVR devices, the SPM instructions have to be replaced by ST instructions.
When you can buy an ATTINY817-XMINI for £6.95 why wouldn't you just buy one of those if you don't fancy soldering? They even throw in a debugger/programmer for free!
I happen to have a box of 35 Tiny817 Xplained Minis heading my direction, and will distribute to those already active in this thread
I haven't heard of anyone else yet, so I guess I am the first to receive one. Granted, Denmark is quite close to Norway, compared to most other participants here.
A big thank you for this initiative.
Unfortunately, I don't have time for the big AS7 install/upgrade dance until the weekend
I don't know how to deal with it but something needs to be done.
People will think that these chips are tiny's and can be programmed like those, so when the boards start to come out there will come a lot of
the code don't compile/run on the 817 mostly because the IO structure are very different, can't point to registers etc. and instructions timing are different etc (program interface are also different).
If there needs to be a xtiny (what really should have been the name) forum or some sticky notes or ... is not my call.
I find the datasheet a bit hard to follow. And it doesn't really "feel" like an Xmega datasheet either.
Anyway: Power-down sleep, and watchdog. (and sleep in general, I guess)
"Table 12-1. SLEEPCTRL Product Dependencies" says Interrupts are not applicable, yet wakeup relies on an enabled interrupt source as in AVR8. Right?
Power-down wakeup sources include INTn and pin-change. Yet right above the chart the text only mentions pin-change.
The other power-down wakeup source is TWI address match. No USART start-frame detection? Sounds like a step back.
Now, on to watchdog. It runs during power-down sleep according to the chart. But not listed as a wakeup source? Is the watchdog much different than AVR8, where recent models have watchdog-interrupt capability?
[edit] Indeed, no watchdog interrupt. Only action is reset. So what use would enabled watchdog be in power-down?
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.
I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.
I just received my tiny817 xplained and it looks NOTHING like the one in the pictures above. I guess There are two versions of the xplained, a pro version and the one I have.
Jim
I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie
"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl
"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman
"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?" - Lee "theusch"
Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-) - Source Unknown
Jim, that was my point. The thing in your hand (despite the silk screen!) is an ATTINY87-XMINI. The thing pictured in #121 is an ATTINY817-XPRO. Not the same thing (apparently)
One mechanical user push button — Wake-up, bootloader entry or general purpose
One yellow user LED
32.768kHz crystal
Two capacitive touch buttons
Two Xplained Pro extension headers
Connector for external debuggers
Embedded Debugger — Auto-ID for board identification in Atmel Studio. One yellow status LED. One green board power LED. Symbolic debug of complex data types including scope information. Programming and debugging. Data Gateway Interface: SPI, I²C, 4 GPIOs. Virtual COM port (CDC)
USB powered
Seems one has a green LED, the other a yellow LED. Not really sure how else they differ - but who cares beyond the color of the LED anyway? ;-)
In expectation of the board's arrival I have updated AS7 on my main computer, I know,I know I'll be sorry.
Started an ASM project and added ye olde STK500 leds file and of course it doesn't assemble, I will try porting the same project from the Xmega version and I think I will have better results.
So forget AVRtiny when working with T817 and relatives and think Xmega.
HA! Success, not as bad as I thought. Using the macros helps with the locations of the I/O registers, just one change necessary to set portb to output.
Can't test it yet of course but here is it. (some of the old and some of the new)
;***** STK500 LEDS and SWITCH demonstration
.nolist
.include "ATtiny817def.inc"
.include "macros.inc"
.list
.LISTMAC
;Remember #define is case sensitive
#define macro_reg r16 ; Used for macros
.def Delay =r17 ; Delay variable 1
.def Delay2 =r18 ; Delay variable 2
#define temp r24 ; temporary register
#define temp1 r25 ; temporary register
.dseg
test_label: .byte 1
.cseg
;***** Initialization
RESET:
ser temp
sts PORTB_DIRSET, temp ; Set PORTB to output
;**** Test input/output
LOOP:
sts PORTB_OUT, temp ; Update LEDS
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x00, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin0 == 0)
inc temp ; then count LEDS one down
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x01, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin1 == 0)
dec temp ; then count LEDS one up
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x02, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin2 == 0)
ror temp ; then rotate LEDS one right
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x03, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin3 == 0)
rol temp ; then rotate LEDS one left
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x04, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin4 == 0)
com temp ; then invert all LEDS
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x05, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin5 == 0)
neg temp ; then invert all LEDS and add 1
SKBS PORTA_IN, 0x06, macro_reg ; If (PORTA, pin6 == 0)
swap temp ; then swap nibbles of LEDS
push temp
lds temp, test_label
subi temp,-1
sts test_label, temp
pop temp
;**** Now wait a while to make LED changes visible.
DLY:
dec Delay
brne DLY
dec Delay2
brne DLY
rjmp LOOP ; Repeat loop forever
if anyone with the board wants to try it you need LEDs (with resistors) on PORTB and switches on PORTA (of course the touch switches won't work)
VPORTs will be next, however I don't see how to set the pull ups in a group like the standard Mega/Tiny or Xmega with the group control, don't really want to do that 1 pin at a time.
I can see that the lack of a pull up group is a pain at init, but is there normally not in a hurry, so make a loop if they all need pull up's, (and yes it would have been nice if it could have been done like on a tiny).
Do you really under program run have to change pull's up on hole groups?
would have been nice if it could have been done like on a tiny
Or Xmegas.
Yep, all of PORTA (or at least 7 bits) need pull ups for the switches. Of course once I get my board I can connect it to the real STK500 as it has already hardware pull ups on the switches.
need to switch the pull up on and off all the time
No, ON ONLY as part of the init. What makes you think I want to turn them off?
Yes I can do that 1 pin at a time but all other chips allow multiple pins to be pulled up (or down for Xmegas) in just one instruction so why not the T817 family?
Therefore my new thread on the subject for the Atmel people in the know. Is it by design or a boo boo?
I just had a fast look at the new datasheet and the school kid had been asked to copy an other instruction set table to it, so now clk cycles is pure guess! (I guess take the fast since the PC is 16 bit)
It's really sad that they never have taken the engineering part serious, "just let's us make some fine sales posters nobody will read them" is a safe way to keep engineers away.
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Toptiny417, tiny 814, and tiny816 aren't yet in IAR EWAVR.
The Kickstart license is zero price for up to 4KB of code space.
Likely is AVR GCC to fill the remainder (akin to bootloader + app or framework + app)
https://www.iar.com/iar-embedded-workbench/#!?architecture=AVR
http://netstorage.iar.com/SuppDB/Public/UPDINFO/011189/ew/doc/infocenter/readme.ENU.html (RELEASE NOTES for IAR Embedded Workbench for Atmel AVR version 6.80.1)
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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Tophttp://www.atmel.com/devices/ATtiny817.aspx
Is this the first AVR with a trace capability?
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIs the [periodic, or on-demand, probably] "readout" equivalent to "trace"? I'd say not.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.
I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.
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TopNow MTB in Cortex M - that's another thing - that is a feature really worth having!
Not sure of Atmel Cortex M do it but NXP ones do and in CodeRed they do this wonderful "receding color display" to show where in the code the PC has recently been. (it's a bit like the flight path display of landing planes on flightradar24 if anyone is familiar with that?)
EDIT: forgot to say that there is a "cost" involved. You have to set aside something like 1K of RAM in the chip to act as the MTB. As the CPU executes it cyclically logs where it's been in that buffer. At the next breakpoint it uses the data to show the last N instructions executed.
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TopHeh, I just arrived at the same conclusion.
But how should I do it?
1: Let AS7 upgrade my existing AS6.2 (assuming that it even attempts to do that). Does that work, or am I asking for trouble?
2: Install AS7 in a new dir and keep my AS6.2. Is it possible? How about USB drivers for programmers/debuggers? Can I seamlessly use one or the other whenever I please?
3: Uninstall AS6.2 and then do a clean install of AS7. Hopefully I can still build old projects in AS7 if the need should arise.
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TopI had a 6.2 and just installed 7 without dealing with 6.2. and that seems to work (I just checked that 6.2 still run , (but I only think that I have ASM peojects)).
I have not converted anything from 6 to 7 that could be an other story
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Tophttps://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/downgrading-tools-use-older-jungo-driver
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopMouser Electronics has placed orders.
tiny816
8KB, 20 leads
M = QFN, S = SOIC
N = 105C, F = 125C
R = reel
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY816-MNR
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY816-MFR (in stock)
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY816-SNR
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY816-SFR
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY816-XPRO (Obsolete)
tiny817
8KB, 24 leads
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY817-MNR
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY817-MFR (in stock)
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY817-XMINI (in stock)
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY817XPRO (EOL)http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY817-XPRO (not stocked)
tiny814
8KB, 14 leads
No orders
tiny417
4KB, 24 leads
No orders
Edits : XPRO EOL and Obsolete, XMINI ETA, some stock
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopApparently, their new definition of "tiny" from the data sheet:
Package up to 24 pins
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
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TopThe correct name should have been xtiny.
It's a xmega without at lot of things!
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TopAgreed, technically and to avoid user confusion, that would have made solid sense.
However, these decisions are not made by engineers, more by branding and marketdroids, who care little about wasting designers time...
Anyone who starts on Tiny817 and then moves to another tiny, has many 'surprises' in store :(
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Tophttp://www.atmel.com/devices/ATtiny817.aspx?tab=documents
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopCodeVisionAVR plans to support the new parts. To avoid the bleeding edge edge of technology and support, my plan is to wait for CVAVR, the easy way.
It all starts with a mental vision.
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Tophttp://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkey204-0015-01
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopWhen you can buy an ATTINY817-XMINI for £6.95 why wouldn't you just buy one of those if you don't fancy soldering? They even throw in a debugger/programmer for free!
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TopConcur.
The QFN-to-DIP adapter is for breadboards and protoboards.
The tiny817 XMini is Arduino shield capable with some relatively simple soldering; there are Arduino shields as protoboards.
Edit : shields
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopWell, it's not that I'm not able to solder a qfn to a cheap "non-EZ" adapter, I just don't like to
Yeah, for that price it's better to just buy the XMINI board.
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TopI haven't heard of anyone else yet, so I guess I am the first to receive one. Granted, Denmark is quite close to Norway, compared to most other participants here.
A big thank you for this initiative.
Unfortunately, I don't have time for the big AS7 install/upgrade dance until the weekend
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Toptiny817 Xplained Pro -
Mouser has it as EOL whereas Digi-Key has not indicated that.
Go or no-go?
Good looking board :
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyATTINY817XPRO
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATTINY817-XPRO/ATTINY817-XPRO-ND/6207309
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIt looks like the 10pin 50mil header is the new programmer/debugger interface connector that directly interfaces with the Atmel ICE and Jtag Mk3.
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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TopInteresting... I also see Mouser shows 47 as on order ?!
Has anyone seen/tried a Pro ? - Any performance comparisons with Mini, on the 817 ?
Maybe the XMINI came second and performance using the new Debug interface was so good, they decided the PRO was no longer needed ? ;)
or, have other PRO's been EOL'd too, in a more general prune exercise ?
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TopYay! Finally this is out and public knowledge. After months and months of development. Whew.
This is first in the new breed of Tiny AVRs. watch out for more.
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TopAnd as we know prunes are great for constipation.....
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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TopGo,
the PCBs are assembled as we speak
just give it a couple of weeks to get into the distributors
Andreas
--
Follow me on the birdsite @AndreasMCUguy
I work at Atmel, but I try my best not to add marketing fluff in this forum.Hopefully I succeed. Views are my own and does not represent Atmel --
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TopI don't know how to deal with it but something needs to be done.
People will think that these chips are tiny's and can be programmed like those, so when the boards start to come out there will come a lot of
the code don't compile/run on the 817 mostly because the IO structure are very different, can't point to registers etc. and instructions timing are different etc (program interface are also different).
If there needs to be a xtiny (what really should have been the name) forum or some sticky notes or ... is not my call.
But some TUT's needs to be made fast!
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TopI find the datasheet a bit hard to follow. And it doesn't really "feel" like an Xmega datasheet either.
Anyway: Power-down sleep, and watchdog. (and sleep in general, I guess)
"Table 12-1. SLEEPCTRL Product Dependencies" says Interrupts are not applicable, yet wakeup relies on an enabled interrupt source as in AVR8. Right?
Power-down wakeup sources include INTn and pin-change. Yet right above the chart the text only mentions pin-change.
The other power-down wakeup source is TWI address match. No USART start-frame detection? Sounds like a step back.
Now, on to watchdog. It runs during power-down sleep according to the chart. But not listed as a wakeup source? Is the watchdog much different than AVR8, where recent models have watchdog-interrupt capability?
[edit] Indeed, no watchdog interrupt. Only action is reset. So what use would enabled watchdog be in power-down?
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.
I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.
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Tophttp://www.atmel.com/devices/ATtiny817.aspx
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIt is there, but not for power-down waking. (right? from the chart...)
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.
I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.
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TopI just received my tiny817 xplained and it looks NOTHING like the one in the pictures above. I guess There are two versions of the xplained, a pro version and the one I have.
Jim
I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie
"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl
"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman
"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?" - Lee "theusch"
Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-) - Source Unknown
Please Read: Code-of-Conduct
Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user
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TopXplained != Xmini ;-)
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TopYes; wake on UART SOF is from standby.
There's not much difference in current between power-down and standby and it's 10micro-sec (typ) to wake from either power-down or standby.
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopHere is what arrived the other day:
Looks nothing like the other one...the "PRO" version. So I guess there are two kits.
Meh.....WTFE
JIm
I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie
"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl
"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman
"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?" - Lee "theusch"
Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-) - Source Unknown
Please Read: Code-of-Conduct
Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user
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TopJim, that was my point. The thing in your hand (despite the silk screen!) is an ATTINY87-XMINI. The thing pictured in #121 is an ATTINY817-XPRO. Not the same thing (apparently)
They have different pages on atmel.com:
ATTINY817-XMINI: http://www.atmel.com/tools/ATTIN...
ATTINY817-XPRO: http://www.atmel.com/tools/attin...
Seems one has a green LED, the other a yellow LED. Not really sure how else they differ - but who cares beyond the color of the LED anyway? ;-)
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TopOne has the crystal, the other does not.
One has a connector for an external debugger, the other does not
JIm
I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie
"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl
"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman
"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?" - Lee "theusch"
Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-) - Source Unknown
Please Read: Code-of-Conduct
Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user
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Top"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopThank you!
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIn that list there is no
on the XPRO ?
Is that correct - A serial port is quite important for debug ?
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TopVirtual COM is mentioned with the Embedded Debugger.
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-42745-ATtiny817-Xplained-Pro_User%20Guide.pdf (page 8)
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-42096-Microcontrollers-Embedded-Debugger_User-Guide.pdf (page 5)
http://www.atmel.com/tools/ATTINY817-XPRO.aspx?tab=documents
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIn expectation of the board's arrival I have updated AS7 on my main computer, I know,I know I'll be sorry.
Started an ASM project and added ye olde STK500 leds file and of course it doesn't assemble, I will try porting the same project from the Xmega version and I think I will have better results.
So forget AVRtiny when working with T817 and relatives and think Xmega.
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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TopHA! Success, not as bad as I thought. Using the macros helps with the locations of the I/O registers, just one change necessary to set portb to output.
Can't test it yet of course but here is it. (some of the old and some of the new)
if anyone with the board wants to try it you need LEDs (with resistors) on PORTB and switches on PORTA (of course the touch switches won't work)
Attachment(s):
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
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TopExcellent! I give you an A+. :)
It all starts with a mental vision.
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TopActually there is a bug and PORTA needs pull up resistors on the switches to work.
I was looking at how to do it in software but it seems convoluted, not impossible though.
https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/a...
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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TopSounds like a microchip experience. :) Life was simpler, when that could be avoided.
It all starts with a mental vision.
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TopNot using VPORTs then?
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TopVPORTs will be next, however I don't see how to set the pull ups in a group like the standard Mega/Tiny or Xmega with the group control, don't really want to do that 1 pin at a time.
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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TopI can see that the lack of a pull up group is a pain at init, but is there normally not in a hurry, so make a loop if they all need pull up's, (and yes it would have been nice if it could have been done like on a tiny).
Do you really under program run have to change pull's up on hole groups?
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TopOr Xmegas.
Yep, all of PORTA (or at least 7 bits) need pull ups for the switches. Of course once I get my board I can connect it to the real STK500 as it has already hardware pull ups on the switches.
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Topbut I mean do you really need to switch the pull up on and off all the time on those 7 IO's ?
I have never had to do that on more than 1 IO at the time.
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TopNo, ON ONLY as part of the init. What makes you think I want to turn them off?
Yes I can do that 1 pin at a time but all other chips allow multiple pins to be pulled up (or down for Xmegas) in just one instruction so why not the T817 family?
Therefore my new thread on the subject for the Atmel people in the know. Is it by design or a boo boo?
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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