Is an Atmel ICE, 6-pin connector and breadboard enough to program?

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I want to program an ATtiny85 through SPI and I am not quite sure if it can be done. When I search on the web I see people use a special kind of board that I don't have. I only have the Attiny85, Atmel ICE, 6-pin connector (from the basic kit) and a breadboard. Can I program the microcontroller with only this or do I have to buy additional parts? I probably sound like an idiot to all of you professionals here but I am really that bad. I checked out the cheat sheet about ICE-connections but the connections look so different from the 6-pin I have. Would be thankful for any help.

Last Edited: Thu. Feb 6, 2020 - 11:58 AM
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should be no problem.

connections are described in the datasheet ( MISO/MOSI/RESET/CLOCK/VDD/VSS)

you should have decoupling caps on the chip supply.

 

If you are also attaching other things to the lines, then have a direct connection between the processor pin and the programmer. and from that to the other things add a 100R to 1K resistor in series. this will ensure that when the processor is in reset the Atmel ICE is still capable of controlling the lines independent of what you have connected on the other side.

 

Note that the programmer does not give supply voltage to the processor so you have to get that from another source too.

 

first thing you should do after making all the connections is to check if you can read the device ID. If that is not successfully read you do not even have to try to go any further.

 

 

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Pirrå wrote:

...do I have to buy additional parts?

 

You'll want a couple of decoupling capacitors on the breadboard just to ensure reliable programming.

#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.

#3 All grounds are not created equal

#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?

#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."

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This sounds like a bad way to do a lot of these, how many do you need to program?

You can buy your T85's already programmed from distributors, cost depends on how many you need.

Or why not have an ISP connections on your PCB, after all that is the advantage of In-circuit Programming?

Jim

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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Thanks for taking your time. Does this look reasonable to you?

Also, is this whan you refer to in the atmel ince manual?

Would that mean that these are the connections on the 6-pin connector?

Where the numbers are the following

  1. MISO
  2. VCC
  3. SCK
  4. MOSI
  5. RESET
  6. GND
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Thanks, what do you think of my previous post?

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Yes those are the correct pins!

Jim

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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Thank you. Was the rest correct? Should I only connect the vcc and ground of the atmel ice to the 5v power supply and ground respectively?

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ki0bk wrote:

Yes those are the correct pins!

Jim

No they are not.   The bottom left socket (marked 5) should be #1.

 

If you look at any civilised ribbon female connector,  you will see a triangle or arrow at #1.

When you look at a male header on a pcb:   key-way is on the left.   pin#1 is top-left.

 

My ATMEL-ICE ribbon does not have the arrow.   I suggest that you paint a white dot.   Or scratch a triangle.

 

I strongly recommend that you make 3x2 male header for your breadboard.    Then the ribbon will always be correct.

And buy several 100nF capacitors.   Crop the leads.   Always mount them close to the AVR pins.

Your Electrolytic capacitors are no good for digital circuits.

 

David.

Last Edited: Wed. Feb 12, 2020 - 05:55 PM
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david.prentice wrote:
My ATMEL-ICE ribbon does not have the arrow.
mark is on the Atmel-ICE's belt

david.prentice wrote:
I strongly recommend that you make 3x2 male header for your breadboard.
These exist somewhere; otherwise, the following might work

IDC Breakout Helper - 2x3 (6 pin) ID: 2105 - $0.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits

...

We have used these to prototype on a solderless breadboard but some customers report their breadboards don't play nice with the shorter pins so your mileage may vary

...

 


Assembling the Atmel-ICE | Atmel-ICE

[paragraph before Figure 3]

Be sure to orient the cable so that the red wire (pin 1) on the cable aligns with the triangular indicator on the blue belt of the enclosure.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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There was a triangle at the 1 mark in my picture, so that must be MISO right? How should I connect the VCC and GND from the ICE? If I connect them to the power supply and the ground they will just short circuit right?

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Pirrå wrote:
If I connect them to the power supply and the ground they will just short circuit right?

Note: the programmer (ice) does not supply power, it only senses power on its vcc pin, so it can adjust its pins to the VCC you have supplied.

Jim

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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Yes, but should the atmel ICE VCC-pin be connected directly to the 5V power supply and the atmel ICE GND-pin be connected to ground? Connecting like that will make a short circuit right?

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Connect ICE VCC to vcc pin of target AVR

Connect ICE GND to gnd pin of target AVR

 

Jim

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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david.prentice wrote:

ki0bk wrote:

Yes those are the correct pins!

Jim

No they are not.   The bottom left socket (marked 5) should be #1.

 

If you look at any civilised ribbon female connector,  you will see a triangle or arrow at #1.

When you look at a male header on a pcb:   key-way is on the left.   pin#1 is top-left.

 

My ATMEL-ICE ribbon does not have the arrow.   I suggest that you paint a white dot.   Or scratch a triangle.

 

I strongly recommend that you make 3x2 male header for your breadboard.    Then the ribbon will always be correct.

And buy several 100nF capacitors.   Crop the leads.   Always mount them close to the AVR pins.

Your Electrolytic capacitors are no good for digital circuits.

 

David.

Hi I noticed something strange. I found one of those triangles you were talking about, and connected the atmel 6-pin connector according to the picture I posted before. When I took my voltmeter and measured from the supposed VCC to the supposed GND I read the value -0.2v. This must be that the thing I believe is VCC is actually ground right? Does this mean that the triangle is misplaced, and instead the connections should be like this:

I am so confused :(

Last Edited: Thu. Feb 13, 2020 - 12:55 PM
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My ATMEL-ICE is very old.  Made in 2014.  My ribbon connector does not have a triangle.

 

Please post a photo of your "triangle"

 

Regarding pin confusion.

1.   draw the male 6-pin pinout (as shown in all documents) on a piece of paper.

2.  offer your female connector up to the pencil drawing.

3.  mark pin #1 with paint,  nail varnish,  scratch an arrow, ...

 

Seriously.   Pencil and paper are a good investment (tm).    Especially when it comes to rotations,  male-female, ...

 

It is difficult to describe in words.   You can understand a drawing instantly.  

 

David.

 

Last Edited: Thu. Feb 13, 2020 - 01:27 PM
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Hi I took some pictures to show you of the triangle.

 

 

This picture is with the triangle and is how I connected everything the first time, but voltage between VCC and GND was -0.2 volt.

 

 

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Thanks for the photos.   My connector does not have the triangle.   But it was  an early model.

 

I am utterly gobsmacked.    I would not have believed you until I saw the photos.

 

The key on the connector is next to pin#3 (SCK)

The key on the connector ensures that you can only attach to a 3x2 box header in the correct way.

The wor1d convention is to identify pin#1 with a triangle or arrow.   And #1 on the male header by a printed 1 or a dot with a square copper pad.

If pcb has a naked male header instead of a box header,  there might be a printed outline of the key footprint.

 

I don't know if you have noticed the two 5x2 1.27mm headers on the ATMEL-ICE.   They are 180 degrees WRONG.

 

This was either genuine design error or a clever marketing ploy to stop you using industry-standard 10-way ribbons.  

 

Perhaps Mr Chapman has an explanation for the triangle being next to pin #5 instead of pin #1.

We might even see TQFP and QFN packages with the dot next to a random corner instead of pin #1.

 

David.

Last Edited: Thu. Feb 13, 2020 - 09:59 PM
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Thanks, but I don't understand. The last picture I posted, is that wrong? Did I mark the connections wrong?

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david.prentice wrote:
Perhaps Mr Chapman has an explanation for the triangle being next to pin #5 instead of pin #1.
None (a first party muddling through aid of other first parties)

Others have a jab at it (Atmel-ICE)

10-pin Cortex Ribbon Cable with 50 mil connectors | Tag-Connect

[SKU option is "LEMTA"]

[mid-page]

WARNING for ATMEL-ICE users: 

...

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Ah-ha.  My apologies.   

The regular IDC sockets used on ribbon cables have the triangle at pin #1.   You line up the red stripe on the ribbon with the triangle on the IDC connector.

 

I just pulled out a 4x2 Dupont receptacle for crimped wires.   And the triangle is on pin #7 not pin #1.  i.e. the receptacle triangle is intended for male crimps.

So it looks as if the ATMEL-ICE 3x2 receptacle follows the same scheme.

 

I have always used female crimps in Dupont receptacles but male crimps are available.   (never seen one in real life)

Normally male headers are mounted on a pcb.  Female ribbons or female jumper cables mate with the male headers.

 

You seldom see female headers on a pcb (except for Arduino).

I have never seen male IDC ribbon connectors.

 

I have every sympathy with Pirra.    It is very confusing.

 

Life is much safer with box headers.   Or blanked off females to line up with missing males.    Would you call a blanked female a Freemartin?

 

David.

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I made a photo of my ISP-MKII ISP6 connector and the 6 pin connector attached to my Atmel-ICE....

 

I also do not have a ICE connector with a arrow/triangle

but either the OP has mirrored all his photos or someone goofed up big time with making the mold for the connector plastic......

 

Note that the 6pin connectors are swap-able, so I connected the ISP-MK2 to a board got device signature and then the ice 6 pin connector to that sme board also got me a signature.

 

 

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To be honest, I still don't know :( Is it like this?

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Once you guys sort out the pins & signals, the micro also needs a 0.1 uF by-pass capacitor connected across the VCC and the Ground pins on the micro, as close to the pins as possible.

 

JC

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DocJC wrote:
the micro also needs a 0.1 uF by-pass capacitor connected across the VCC and the Ground pins on the micro, as close to the pins as possible.

Agree, although on the dip8 package those pins are on opposite corners of the chip, making it hard to have short leads on the cap on a bread board.

Why does the OP not have the ISP connector on the pcb of the product? Then the chip could be flashed in circuit.

Jim

 

 

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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Yes,  your MONSTER photo in #23 looks correct.

 

I strongly advise you to do the pencil and paper exercise from #16.

 

It is 100% reliable.  And will give you confidence in the result.  And how to resolve rotations,  front/back sides of a pcb, ...

 

Confession:   we skim through these messages.   If the first 2 pins look correct,  we assume the others will be too.

 

David.

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It's really easy to make mistakes when building crimp-connector ribbon cables by hand.

You care, because your cable doesn't work.  But the person making a hundred cables an

hour like this for peanuts working 10 hours a day doesn't care if you get a mis-aligned

cable.  So always check your cables.  And don't trust any dots or triangles or markings

on the connector.   Trust your beeping continuity checker.

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I worked on a system where a huge bunch of signals went through a huge number of connectors on various boards.  Unknown to me some of them were drawn inverted, flipped, mirrored, reversed, etc.  However signal X went in and came out as shown, yet things were screwy.  What was really screwy was that looking at other boards, some signals that were verified originating on board A , arriving as documented at C , later seemed to be missing on boards B, or , D , or  maybe E. Turned out certain boards had 40 or 50 similar signals all scrambled around  on certain connectors (not all) & then unscrambled, by accidental double reversals!  I asked them to fix this mess & they  thought I was joking...since they could see the signal coming out where it was "supposed to"!   I suppose this was a good technique to prevent reverse engineering!

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Sat. Feb 15, 2020 - 12:07 AM
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I managed to program the microcontroller with the configuration on the last picture laugh I have finally mastered the atmel ICE crying

 

On the other hand, how durable is the ICE? I probably trie the wrong configuration a couple of times and I am afraid I might have broken something, eventhough I managed to blink a led on the ATtiny

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I forgot to say thanks for all the time you guys spent on me!!!! Thank you

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The 1.27mm 5x2 ribbon socket on the ATMEL-ICE is delicate.

The 10-way Adapter ribbon is delicate.

 

The electronics have protection against bad inputs but I suggest that you wire correctly in the first place.

That is why I strongly recommend using box headers on the breadboard.   Or at least a naked 3x2 header with a paint spot to mark pin #1.

 

The Pickit4 or SNAP are probably more mechanically robust.   But you have to make your own ribbon adapter.

 

David.

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Ok thanks, I currently only use the 6-pin one. 

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Pirrå wrote:
On the other hand, how durable is the ICE?
More than reasonable

  • USB connector - wrenching issue worked-around then corrected in later revisions
  • power supply - a few posts here on its destruction

Pirrå wrote:
... and I am afraid ...
May you be fearless.

Be aware of the magnitude and polarity of

  • USB - Vbus and ground
  • target - VTGT and GND

An Atmel-ICE may survive mis-wire on a 12V automotive electrical system, possibly 24Vdc, not off-line AC.

Consider a USB isolator to protect the USB host (USB HCI, its power supply, its mass storage)

 


AtmelICE - Rats | AVR Freaks

Connecting the Atmel-ICE | Atmel-ICE

Protect Equipment with USB Isolators - B&B Electronics (off-line AC, reversed hot and neutral)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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david.prentice wrote:
The Pickit4 or SNAP are probably more mechanically robust.
each have an ETN

Engineering Technical Notes (ETNs) - Developer Help

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/come-join-us-mplab-now-supports-avrs?page=5#comment-2789921 (MPLAB PICkit 4)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller