An Arduino with a SAMD21 - and proper debug

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It's got a SAMD21 (ARM Cortex-M0+) and the Atmel EDBG Embedded Debugger. So you could use it just as a straight dev board - without any of the Arduino stuff.

Or use it as an Arduino, if you prefer.

http://blog.arduino.cc/2014/05/1...

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price guess: $50
Wish it were more than a Cortex M0 with just 32KB RAM. Price delta small.

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stevech wrote:
Wish it were more than a Cortex M0 with just 32KB RAM.

So get a DUE, then?

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:shock: :D

Really cool this board...

For me will be a good intro to the arduino and ARM world...

Regards,

Bruno Muswieck

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I am very curious how the proprietary debug chip will fit into the arduino open-source-hardware philosophy.
(as someone pointed out, at the moment BOTH chips seem to be unavailable for mortals.)

(Hmm. Also curious how they'll do debugging in the Arduino IDE...)

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westfw wrote:
I am very curious how the proprietary debug chip will fit into the arduino open-source-hardware philosophy.

I don't do Arduino - so forgive me if I'm mistaken - but, AIUI, Arduino just uses a serial port & bootloader; it has no real debug facilities as such.
So, as far as Arduino is concerned, the EDBG chip can just be ignored :?:

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awneil wrote:
westfw wrote:
I am very curious how the proprietary debug chip will fit into the arduino open-source-hardware philosophy.

I don't do Arduino - so forgive me if I'm mistaken - but, AIUI, Arduino just uses a serial port & bootloader; it has no real debug facilities as such.
So, as far as Arduino is concerned, the EDBG chip can just be ignored :?:

I'm not an Arduino guy too, but yesterday I read a bit of Arduino.

As I understood, and see, the firmware within the bootloader is available to download and ypu can program in your own board, so probably the firmware for the debug chip will be avaliable too.
About the debug of this board, it seems that Atmel did: Atmel’s Embedded Debugger (EDBG). So it's a new type of debug, as it said not only via serial port the debug can be done.

Regards,

Bruno Muswieck

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It CAN be ignored, but this is an Arduino product with a blatant debug chip. It would be conceivable that the arduino IDE would get some sort of debug capability as a result. (raising additional OSSW questions, since I didn't think Atmel documented their debugger communications protocol, either.)

(BTW, I think "how do you add debugging support for the class of user that makes up the arduino community" is a very interesting question!)

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If the Arduino IDE suddenly sprouted "debug" how are you gonna explain to the other 99% of Arduino users "sorry, you don't get to play with this fancy feature"? No, surely the intention is that you only play the EDBG game in the AS6 arena?

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Quote:

I didn't think Atmel documented their debugger communications protocol, either.

Course we do. http://www.atmel.com/webdoc/prot...

The EDBG is CMSIS-DAP compliant for all ARM chips, so it should work as any other CMSIS debugger for ARM. AVR is another story, but the wrapping commands are given, and avrdude has implemented the programming subset as far as I know.

:: Morten

 

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The question which occurs to me is: What, now, is the point of the Xplained-Pro stuff :?:

Why bother with a proprietary scheme (Xplained/Pro) rather than the "open" Arduino "shield" scheme?

Seems that ST have already beaten Atmel to this bandwagon with their Nucleo range...

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Quote:

proprietary scheme (Xplained/Pro)

Well, to start it's not proprietary. Only the EDBG chip itself is.

Quote:

What, now, is the point of the Xplained-Pro stuff

Cheap dev boards for our devices...?

Quote:

rather than the "open" Arduino "shield" scheme?

:: Morten

 

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meolsen wrote:
Quote:
proprietary scheme (Xplained/Pro)
Well, to start it's not proprietary.

That depends on what you mean by "proprietary"...

I was thinking in the sense of "different from everyone else" - not (specifically) "closed".

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Only the EDBG chip itself is.

And the ID scheme?

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Quote:
What, now, is the point of the Xplained-Pro stuff
Cheap dev boards for our devices...?

I mean, what is the point of having both the Xplained format and the Arduino format? Seems like unnecessary duplication?

Quote:
Quote:
rather than the "open" Arduino "shield" scheme?

Rather than messing with adaptors, why not just use it in the first place?!

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Quote:

I was thinking in the sense of "different from everyone else" - not (specifically) "closed".

Well, then we think differently. Proprietary for me means closed.

Quote:

And the ID scheme?

https://gallery.atmel.com/docs/H...

We are working on getting it more accessible from a software standpoint though.

:: Morten

 

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Sorry - "Proprietary" was a poor choice of word.

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Quote:

Sorry - "Proprietary" was a poor choice of word.

Hehe :)

Quote:

I mean, what is the point of having both the Xplained format and the Arduino format? Seems like unnecessary duplication?

I won't or care enough to actually answer that. Might be blunt, but they do fill different parts of the market, both in design differences, usability goal and audience.

:: Morten

 

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Certainly seems to be the way ST are going with their Nucleo boards:

http://www.st.com/web/en/press/p3526

[img]http://www.st.com/web/en/fragment/press/product_press_release/press_imag...

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I think the number of people who would reject a board due to "arduino compatibility" is smaller than the number of people that might be attracted by that compatibility.

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Especially if it's supported in Atmel Studio for "native" (ie, non-Arcuino) development

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STM too has 2 series of eval boardds. both discovery and nucleo. so why are you bashing Atmel for having Xplained boards for proffessionals and Arduino line support (mostly from third party anyway) for hobbyists? There is a LOT an Xplained board can do that Arduinos can't/won't do and in the forseeable future will not.

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Will the Zero go the same route as the LPC-based mbed, where 2+ years after introduction, there remained a lack of a stable TCP/IP stack for the ethernet on-board?

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I would agree that the MBED has not taken off to the extent that Arduino did. Mind you, I don't think that the DUE has sold very many either.

Regarding MBED libraries. Things are open source. So enthusiastic users can develop or improve. This would be to the benefit of all LPC customers.

Manufacturer-supplied sample code from Texas, ST, NXP, Freescale is fairly comprehensive. Somehow, I get the feeling that the manufacturers don't want their 'Wizards' to be too portable. They want to lock you into their particular silicon.

David.

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bloody-orc wrote:
STM too has 2 series of eval boardds. both discovery and nucleo.

That's true; so the same question applies to them - are they going to continue with the two, or just go with the Arduino-like format?

Note that ST also provide a set of headers on a sensible, standard pitch - so you're not tied to just Arduino "shields"

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so why are you bashing Atmel

I'm not bashing them - just wondering if this is The Shape Of Things To Come...?

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Xplained boards for proffessionals and Arduino ... for hobbyists?

Don't see why there needs to be that distinction

Quote:
There is a LOT an Xplained board can do that Arduinos can't/won't do

Really? Such as :?:

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Quote:
Quote:
There is a LOT an Xplained board can do that Arduinos can't/won't do

Really? Such as


Wireless sensor network, wireless stacks to connect right to the Atmel's transceivers. This one thing that I remember...

Regards,

Bruno Muswieck

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bloody-orc wrote:
There is a LOT an Xplained board can do that Arduinos can't/won't do
I wrote:
Really? Such as :?:
brunomusw wrote:
Wireless sensor network, wireless stacks to connect right to the Atmel's transceivers. This one thing that I remember...

No reason why they shouldn't work on an Arduino-style board as such. The chip is the same irrespective of the board style!

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bloody-orc wrote:
Xplained boards for proffessionals and Arduino ... for hobbyists?
awneil wrote:
Don't see why there needs to be that distinction

A "professional" (or a keen amateur) doesn't have to use the Aduino stuff - they can just use it as a chip on a board.

eg, see: http://www.element14.com/communi...

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Quote:
Xplained boards for proffessionals and Arduino ... for hobbyists?

It is my observation that a professional and a hobbyist are not so far apart, when they are truly exploring a new product for their own education. "Professional" eval boards are what you buy when the company you work for has picked a chip for you, that you need to learn more about pretty quickly (or start prototyping SW), and funding is available.

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westfw wrote:
"Professional" eval boards are what you buy when the company you work for has picked a chip for you ... and funding is available.

That was true when the "pro" Eval boards were huge things costing hundreds of pounds.

But when the "pro" version is an Xplained or Discovery or Launchpad, there's very little - if anything - to choose between that and something Arduino-like...

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:shock: :shock: :shock:

I'm thinking that our discussion here are the same to argue about politics, religion or soccer, each one had a point...

Regards,

Bruno Muswieck

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I've created an Arduino Due schematic symbol and footprint for Altium. I've dropped the Due into two designs for work projects so far. One was a 5-channel 2-quadrant power supply with local and remote current monitoring using the TI INA226 over I2C for a customers HALT test hardware. Using the Due allowed me to focus on the hardware design and quickly put together the test firmware which consisted of a command execution processor for a PC serial console. The Due was a nice match for this 2 piece production run. It also enabled me to jump to the next client's project more quickly. I don't know about you, but I find that making the transition from hardware (design, schematic capture, PCB layout, assembly) to firmware takes a bit longer than it used to take me. After doing firmware for a month, I stare at the PCB editor for a few minutes, while the keystrokes and commands slowly come back into focus.

I look forward to learning more about this new Arduino.

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The saga of the Arduino Zero (and Arduino Zero Pro) continues here: https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/a...

 

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