Arduino ?

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Anyone want to talk about Arduino? I've been playing with it a bit recently, and I'm wondering just how much time I should invest in it...

Arduino seems to be a microcontroller environment aimed at non-engineers, sorta like Parallax's Basic Stamp. There have been websites calling it a Stamp Replacement, in fact. The hardware is an ATmega8 or mega168 with USB or Serial interface, ISP connector, and a standardized layout of 13 "digital IO" pins and 6 "analog input" pins. The software consists of an IDE that works on top of (and vastly simplifies) gcc, some startup and library code (an environment apparently called "wiring"), and a bootloader. It runs on Macs, Windows, and linux.

It's cute. All the HW and SW is open source. I think the concept of wrapping some user-friendly IDE and pre-processing around gcc is pretty close to brilliant, but then I don't really need it. There are other advantages and disadvantages:

    + Simplified SW IDE - not small; runtime+bootloader is approx 4k
    + moderately capable HW.
    + Standardized connector layout enables "shields."
    - connector layout is 'odd'
[/b]

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Hmm, seems to me like yet another development board for the lazy who are afraid of a soldering gun.

It does however allow the quick production of hobbyist systems (like robot control or similar apps).

I mean, the board's just a breakout for a mega8 with a bootloader. Just my opinion.

BTW: http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Ar... what's the point? It's twice as wide as a dip mega168 and has only a regulator onboard. Oh, yeah, and a crystal. Maybe I'm a cheapskate, but 25euro is a bit too much for a mega168 + the equivalent of a 7805.

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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arduinos are a great new thing: for a very reasonable price you get a USB-enabled atmega168 protoboard with all the stuff i want (FT232RL, 5V regulator, switch, reset button, plug, headers, crystal, programming header) and none of the stuff you dont (tons of buttons and leds, external eeproms, proto area). i like to keep a few kicking around for quick 'sketches' of firmware, although i dont use the bootloader: just plug in my programmer into the header and upload my own firmware

Interesting projects: www.ladyada.net Unique kits: www.adafruit.com

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Quote:

Hmm, seems to me like yet another development board for the lazy who are afraid of a soldering gun.

The site did mention that the board could be bought unassembled for the hobbyist to solder himself.

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Funny... The Arduino is what got me started and then I soon realized I didn't need or want it as the components are so simple and easy to do on your own - not to mention the full power of something like AVR Studio and a mature community of support like this forum. I have no need for my Arduino board and no desire to ever go back.

-Josh

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I also have a arduino board and although I won't use it for a big project it is great for testing concepts and trying out new ic's. It's a good tool to have (for me atleast) :)

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Hi there, I'm a newbie and I'm thinking about buying an Arduino to get started on this. I already have some experience in microcontrollers, but not so much. I was wondering, should I start from the easy, comfortably coded and usb arduino board, or it may be better to go straight to a more powerful tool? I mean, do u think I would waste time and money starting with Arduino? if so, what else to buy and use?

[¬_¬] -<(JustShutUp&Reboot!)
P1NG0 WE11M4N

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Hi...

I suspect a lot of this decision comes down to personal preference, but FWIW here's my two cents:

I'm a AVR newbie (relatively speaking) and bought an Arduino back in August--I'd first played with one at the beginning of the year.

pingowellman wrote:
I already have some experience in microcontrollers, but not so much.

That's a little vague--it might be helpful to be a somewhat more specific about what your microcontroller experience has been.

pingowellman wrote:
I was wondering, should I start from the easy, comfortably coded and usb arduino board, or it may be better to go straight to a more powerful tool?

The principle advantage--as I see it--of the Arduino is that it was designing from the beginning to be easy to get started with. It is aimed at people (designers, artists) without much (or any) experience of microcontrollers or even electronics. There are obviously some trade-offs that have been made to enable this to happen.

Quote:
I mean, do u think I would waste time and money starting with Arduino? if so, what else to buy and use?

Only you know what your time and money is worth, but the Arduino (board, IDE and community* combination) does offer a relatively low-cost (in terms of time and money) "plug and play" solution. If you decide to move to a programmer later you can still use the board as a prototype tool via ISP.

Of course, you do have some choices about how you get started with Arduino--from the "official" Arduino board, to a starter kit from adafruit.com, a Freeduino clone or even make one up on protoboard.

All I can say is, starting with an Arduino worked for me--last week I programmed my first bare ATMega8 with a parallel programmer, have a USB Programmer Kit on its way and have developed code to program a Freeduino clone via ethernet. And the other guys at the beach no longer kick sand in my face.**

--Phil.

* Depending on how you learn, the community aspect shouldn't be underestimated. My current impression is that some members of the Arduino community are a bit more willing to do a lot more hand-holding than you might find on avrfreaks (no slight intended). (I sometimes wonder how they have the patience to do so!)

** Of course, round here I'll probably still get sand kicked in my face for not buying a STK500 or Dragon. :D (Hey, I'm still kicking myself for not getting a post in early enough for the STK500 give-away last year. :-) )

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Ardino seems intended to let non-engineering-dept. students fiddle with microprocessors. Seems to me that a 3 months down-stream, the students abandon it or remove the obfuscating atop GCC and learn to use C.

For the intended audience, they'd be much better off using ZBasic.net with VB-like programming rather than the oddball variant of C and C-libs.

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stevech wrote:
For the intended audience, they'd be much better off using ZBasic.net with VB-like programming rather than the oddball variant of C and C-libs.

I would like to politely disagree. I haven't used Arduino, but I have read the documentation and the one advantage I see is that it is a C-like language so it would be easier to proceed to real C than if you start with any BASIC programming language. Arduino 'sketches' look to me to be as easy as any BASIC front end. Again, IMHO.

Smiley

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I think the hidden-gcc is one of the best parts of arduino. You can start with the arduino ide and simplified C and get a feel for how things sort of work. Then you can move on to straight C, gcc, and avrdude...without having to buy new hardware.

I also think the fact that the arduino hardware is so simple might help encourage a person to think they could move beyond it and work with the bare chips. 'oh, there really ISN'T much needed to make one of these avr things work, is there?'

I will admit that I am biased, however. My first microcontroller programming (unless you count the timex sinclare 1000 i had as a kid!) was with an arduino. It is now in my vanagon controlling the heating system, the lights, and talking to several temp sensors scattered around. I do my newer development on an stk500 or a bare plugboard. But I still break out another arduino from time to time.

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Thans for such an early response!
I currently study telecommunication engineering, so that's where my 'background' in electronics come from. On the 2nd year I studied the former motorola 68000. Programmed it in assembler, but it was all very basic and quite boring to b honest. A year ago I did a project on an HC08, the IDE was Codewarrior, language was C (my favourite).Sometimes It was a pain to do it, but a great experience to see it work at the end. Now I'm more into FPGA's and VHDL, but again, it is all still too "academic". What I mean is that, without a specific lead or guide, I really do find myself in trouble. And that shouldn't happen to a real engineer, in my opinion.
I would love to do interesting projects, design them and implement them on my own. That's why I was thinking on the Arduino as a nice tool to start with. However I guess that a good engineer should go for the other boards and languages, specially when they are not new for me.
So, with all your advices considered, I guess I'd better go for the big board. Now my problem is: Wich one to use? there are so many of them! I would like to be able to program it on C through my usb on my laptop running vista...Any clue????
Cya!! And again, thanks.

[¬_¬] -<(JustShutUp&Reboot!)
P1NG0 WE11M4N

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I'd agree with the above were it not for the impression I have from reading that the intended student-users for Arduino are clearly not in engineering majors. One cannot really do much at all with the AVR without breaking through the Arduino glass floor and getting into C.

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The Arduino is like any other AVR development board in that it has an ISP connector so you can add you code to the device. The non-engineer part is that it has a PC side IDE with a text box for writing C-like 'sketches' that the IDE then compiles and loads onto the Arduino board. This just means that the Arduino comes with a simplifying layer of software that is easier for non-engineers to use, BUT and this is the key point, you don't have to use that layer, so IMHO the Arduino would make a capable board for engineers who could ignore the 'training wheels' if they want to use real C, or could use the extra layer for quick and simple little experiments.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not an advocate of Arduino, but I have been thinking along the same lines, that is putting a simplifying layer, or training wheels, on top of C for quite a while.

I think the real problem here is that many of us found C programming to be simple enough that we can't imagine why anyone would need training wheels to get started, but that attitude denies access to a large group of folks who aren't the least bit interested how a program might make an LED work or a motor turn, they just want to flash lights and turn things. Imagine if those of us with an engineering mind-set suddenly decided to paint a picture, we'd probably start out acquiring raw ore and grinding our own pigments and using spectrometers to make sure the colors are correct and so forth before slopping one bit of paint on the canvas. An artist wants to buy the paint in a tube since he is only interested in a visual concept not the technology needed to render it. Likewise he wants to get his flashing lights and spinning discs as easily as possible and cares not a bit how they work, caring only how the art piece looks.

Sorry, I got going there a bit,
Smiley

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Heh, I'm sure there are people on this forum that would argue that avr-gcc dumbs down microcontroller design and that eventually people have to break thru the 'glass floor' of C to use assembly :)

Interesting projects: www.ladyada.net Unique kits: www.adafruit.com

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It all depends on the thickness of the layer :)

There's an old saying that states "who doesn't know, pays", that is, who doesn't know how to do, pays to who does know. So, who doesn't know will obviously pay, more. Works for painters as well as for engineers.

Embedded Dreams
One day, knowledge will replace money.

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C is powerful and simple, for anyone with any programming experience I am pretty sure that C would be the best place to start.

Does the Arduino IDE support any of the hardware debug tools for AVR? If not then I would say that C + dragon/mk2/mk1 is better for learning and getting stuff done quickly than Arduino.

Putting a layer on C makes more sense than using just any dumb-down compiler. I can definitely see why there is a buzz about Audriuno.

The name sounds a bit too exotic for its own good, especially considering that some people follow "Audruino" with "hack lab".

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ladyada wrote:
Heh, I'm sure there are people on this forum that would argue that avr-gcc dumbs down microcontroller design and that eventually people have to break thru the 'glass floor' of C to use assembly :)

Careful...

In one programming language pissing contest thread I stated that anyone who used anything for programming other than switches and machine language was a real wimp - and some folks didn't realize I was joking. :roll:

Smiley

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It can be said that the majority of Arduino adopters (who, as I'd said earlier are not in the EE/CS dept.), would not likely be reading AVRfreaks.net.

And conversely, those that do, are beyond Arduino and it's training wheels.

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stevech wrote:
It can be said that the majority of Arduino adopters (who, as I'd said earlier are not in the EE/CS dept.), would not likely be reading AVRfreaks.net.

And conversely, those that do, are beyond Arduino and it's training wheels.


You are absolutely correct that the majority of Arduino users are not technical folks and few if any hang out at AVRFeaks. Howsomeever, two points bear on this.

First, the Arduino board does not have to be used with the Arduino software and IMHO makes a decent little development board on it's own merits, using WinAVR or whatever to compile and load code via the ISP. This board is cost-competitive with similar non-Arduino boards.

Second, there are some folks who arrive at AVRFreaks, who should be starting with something like the Arduino. We have no filter on expertise and often we get folks so ignorant that it is hard for me to tell if they really are that clueless or if they are just trying to make trouble. We usually send them to AVRBeginners.net and hope they take the hint, but we could also send them to the Arduino website which might be more appropriate for their level of expertise.

Smiley

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thats pretty much what i do...i get so many people asking "how do i do electronics???" that i started a set of detailed tutorials based on arduino. its been remarkably effective, i may do one for non-arduino AVR (since it'd be almost identical). turns out many people are happy if they can get a colorswirl LED :)

http://www.ladyada.net/learn/ard...

Interesting projects: www.ladyada.net Unique kits: www.adafruit.com

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Quote:

ladyada wrote:
Heh, I'm sure there are people on this forum that would argue that avr-gcc dumbs down microcontroller design and that eventually people have to break thru the 'glass floor' of C to use assembly

Careful...

In one programming language pissing contest thread I stated that anyone who used anything for programming other than switches and machine language was a real wimp - and some folks didn't realize I was joking.

Smiley

We definitely do not want another pissing contest.

Regardless of what language you end up programming in, anything that can get a non-techie interested in this 'addiction' is in my mind worth something. I am sure every one of us has spent money on something that we look back ans wonder why we did it, but realize later that we did learn something, good or bad from it.

I have been programming in assembler for many years and struggle like hell with 'c' so much that I have all but given up on it. I am not saying that a noob give up, just first swim in the shallow area first and then go into deeper waters.

Looks like the Arduino is a good place to start.

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Just my two cents: I found that many robotics fans and begginers in the first years of EE at uni (or even at the final career project) would take some advantages using Arduino as a development tool. I mean this: It is ready made (no prototype PCB's), it is tested, it is cheap, and most important, from my point of view: they have spanish support web pages. Maybe it sounds stupid, but not many of us finished university with a good grasp of english and datasheets, and this can be a real stopper, or a good sales argument. Remember that spanis speakers are not as short as catalan speakers (we are lucky, since we also speak spanish), huh.

After all, when I was at Santa Clara, CA, I didn't learn a lot of (non technical) english.

PS: @Pingowelleman. Por casualidad tu no seras uno de los 'posteadores' de la web de arde?. Por cierto, te recomiendo (dado tu nivel) que empieces por un STK500 y un AVRDragon, o mejor, un JTAGICE MkII. Beamspot.

Edit: added the PS.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Quote:

PS: @Pingowelleman. Por casualidad tu no seras uno de los 'posteadores' de la web de arde?. Por cierto, te recomiendo (dado tu nivel) que empieces por un STK500 y un AVRDragon, o mejor, un JTAGICE MkII. Beamspot.

I'm gonna have my 8year old niece translate this for me.... :wink:

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Oh, I simply ask him if he is one of the posters at www.webdearde.com. There were some question about Arduino there, and it looked strange a question about AVR's when everybody is using PIC's (but me, of course ;)).

And also, I recomended him to begin with STK500 and AVRDragon, since if he can deal with FPGA, VHDL and so on, AVR's with STK 500 wouldn't be too difficult, huh.

Beamspot is another nick that I use often.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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My 15 year old son wanted to get into programming micros. We started with the Basic STAMP, then went to the PICAXE.
He ripped through those in a month. It doesn't take
long to hit the wall with BASIC. If you are doing
anything too complicated, BASIC just doesn't cut it.
It was fine for learning the electronics side,
but BASIC stinks.
(I started learning programming on a
PDP11 in BASIC in 1975. It sucked then, too).

We then switched over to Arduino/Boarduino.
I like the boarduino because you can plug
it into a solderless breadboard for prototyping,
then solder it onto a perf board when you want to
deploy.

The Arduino software environment is excellent. It gives you
plenty of stuff to keep you happy. I like not having to worry about some of the details. You can dip
your toes into WINAVR, if you want, since
Arduino is based on that stuff. If you need a growth path,
you can use the same hardware and use the USBTinyISP
and avrdude as a cheap programmer alternative.

Oh, did I mention that it is cheap?

I have been doing embedded for 20 years. Robotics,
machine vision, motion control, military systems,
consumer electronics, 68K, 8051, ARM,
StrongArm, ColdFire, ThreadX, VxWorks...
All of em.

I'm used to having to shell out at least a grand to
even start to play with a platform. $16 for a boarduino and
$20 for a USB/serial cable, it's a no brainer.

I suggest starting out with the arduino/boarduino
platform as a beginner or as a seasoned pro.
Projects come up fast. As you get more sophisticated,
you can dig into the WinAVR stuff.

The language is C and C++.

BTW: I am not a salesperson for ladyada,
just a satisfied customer!
:)

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I brought an Arduino, and it is amazingly simple, and no doubt i'll play with it lots in the future, but almost straight away i hit limitations. The bigest problem i am finding with other forms of programming avrs is trying to work out all the registers. The good thing about the aurduino is that you dont have to worry about that! I'd say to any beginner, buy/build one have a play, because it is easy enought to pick up and play wiv.

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Quote:
programming other than switches and machine language

Well, some of us probably did a little of that kind of programming. I remember the HeathKit H8 with it's front panel.

This thread will have me looking at the Arduino board as a low cost concept 'tester'

I'll believe corporations
are people when Texas executes one.

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tubecut wrote:
I remember the HeathKit H8 with it's front panel.
Perhaps you've already seen this H8 emulator with its front panel? http://home.comcast.net/~davidwa...

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Quote:
Perhaps you've already seen this H8 emulator with its front panel? http://home.comcast.net/~davidwa... ... mputer.htm

I visited the site but didn't find a emulator. I do recall at one time there was one. Also there was one for the Data General Nova 1200.
The H8 was a little weird to use, display was split octal. Made you learn the machine code for the 8080.
Well, this starting to drift off topic.
Best Regards

I'll believe corporations
are people when Texas executes one.

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tubecut wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps you've already seen this H8 emulator with its front panel? http://home.comcast.net/~davidwa... ... mputer.htm

I visited the site but didn't find a emulator. I do recall at one time there was one. Also there was one for the Data General Nova 1200.
The H8 was a little weird to use, display was split octal. Made you learn the machine code for the 8080.
Well, this starting to drift off topic.
Best Regards

There's also a freeware Apple II and Apple OS emulator - and some of the old, old games. One of which is Cannonball Blitz. Lots of fun with our old friends who used to play that hours on end, while, er, bending the elbows a bit.

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tubecut wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps you've already seen this H8 emulator with its front panel? http://home.comcast.net/~davidwa... ... mputer.htm

I visited the site but didn't find a emulator. I do recall at one time there was one. Also there was one for the Data General Nova 1200.
The H8 was a little weird to use, display was split octal. Made you learn the machine code for the 8080.
Well, this starting to drift off topic.
Best Regards

There's also a freeware Apple II and Apple OS emulator - and some of the old, old games. One of which is Cannonball Blitz. Lots of fun with our old friends who used to play that hours on end, while, er, bending the elbows a bit.

AppleWin is the emulator. Cannonball Blitz is on the same web site. See enclosed - chm help file.

Attachment(s): 

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I bought an Arduino, but now I'm using as a good dev-board.

It's a bargain...a complete dev-board with everything you need.

I see Arduino as an excellent Basic Stamp competitor.

My (HW && SW) Setup: (MyAVR USB Programmer | bread-board | Butterfly | Arduino 10k | ATtiny2313 | ATmega8) && (WinAVR | AVR asm | AVRstudio)

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smileymicros wrote:
Arduino 'sketches' look to me to be as easy as any BASIC front end. Again, IMHO.

Agree and you can place lib-c statements everywhere if you find Arduino's instruction set inadeguate.

Arduino it's also a good work of macro, I guess.

My (HW && SW) Setup: (MyAVR USB Programmer | bread-board | Butterfly | Arduino 10k | ATtiny2313 | ATmega8) && (WinAVR | AVR asm | AVRstudio)

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I have to admit I find some of the apparent "hostility" towards the Arduino here a little surprising. I'm not sure how much of that is based on direct experience or if it's based on poor impressions gained from something else.

jwalker2020 wrote:
The language is C and C++.

I think this is worth reiterating, as there seems to be some confusion on this point. People who use Arduino develop in C/C++--not "something like" or "some language" it actually is C/C++.

The only thing the environment/project does is:

  • Not necessarily tell people they're using C/C++.
  • Not tell them everything they could be using.
  • Save them from declaring function prototypes.
  • Supply some pre-instantiated objects and support libraries.
The IDE doesn't actively prevent you from using features of the language--unless they're not actually supported by the underlying system. (I'm being a bit hand-wavey here, but in this case I think that's new/delete, exceptions and templates.)

To my mind, it's no different than when you start teaching someone C/C++ you don't tell them everything they can do at once.

The Arduino is already bringing people to avrfreaks when they're wanting to do "lower level" AVR stuff, so it's nice to see that there are people here who don't think that's a bad thing. :-)

I'm sure some of the existing resources at avrfreaks will continue to prove helpful as I contribute to the Arduino community--and hopefully some of it will be a useful contribution here also.

--Phil.

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Hello,
I arrive on your discussion, googling by chance. I am artist, teaching in art school and we use extensively arduino for interactive production. The arduino's website and the forum, the close link with processing (graphical open-source software, http://www.processing.org), the numerous exemple focused on artistic productions (movements, lights, sounds…) make arduino (or wiring, a more powerfull avatar, http://www.wiring.org.co) unbeatable for us. I have a scientific background but the learning curve is/seems too hard with another devices. Smileymicro have a good understanding of why arduino is so popular between artists and art schools (also because the ide is working in Win, Lin and Mac, Mac staying the favourite platform for many artists and designers).

I hope to find some interesting advise in your forum and I apologise for my poor frenchy english.

Jacques Hoepffner

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Is there an FAQ of what, if any, modification is required to the Arduino boards so that the AVR can be programmed using the usual tools - Studio itself and avrdude

This USB business and boot loader is just too funny. Basically I want to wipe out the boot loader and modify Arduino so it becomes a cheap generic avr board - it comes with lots of good headers so its almost as cheap as if I would wipe my own generic board by buying all the parts separately and milling the PCB...

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Quote:
Is there an FAQ of what, if any, modification is required to the Arduino boards so that the AVR can be programmed using the usual tools - Studio itself and avrdude

Well you can write "normal" C in an Arduino "sketch" as I detailed in this thread:

https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

under the hood their IDE is just a wrapper for avr-gcc anyway. I wouldn't ditch the bootloader just yet until you get to the point of needing that 1K..2K that it occupies out of the 16K. It's actually a quick and easy way to get programs into it.

Alternatively just setup for programming mega168 using a standard Studio+WinAVR installation and then, when you have generated the .hex file to download, use avrdude with the "stk500" protocol to download the code into the board via the bootloader.

But if you can get over the intellectual hurdle of realising that the Arudino IDE and their use of setup() and loop() are just the two obvious parts of any normal main() program in C then you might as well stick with that. But you don't have to use their library functions like DigitalWrite() and DigitalRead() to access port pins - you can just use the standard PORTC, PINB type access as found in "normal" C programs for the AVR.

Cliff

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I'm coming from the Arduino crowd and my impression of their platform and community totally lines up with SmileyMicro's view that Arduino is driven more on making things happen than learning the underlying workings.

The funny thing about the forums is that the power users seem to be sharing knowledge that is worlds beyond what can be learned from the Arduino environment. The community seems like it breaks down very cleanly into people who write libraries and advanced code and those have learned just enough to write simple sketches and use the libraries that are there. That probably has a lot to do with the success of Arduino though since there are easy to use tools for common tasks

I kind of wish I'd started off another way since trying to learn as much as possible while having all the underpinnings hidden from the development process gives you a "Oh this is easy" feeling that can be hard to get over.

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I'm in the process of writing a series of article for Nuts&Volts magazine on using the Arduino the Arduino Way and then porting the code to AVRStudio, WinAVR, AVRDude so that you can use the 'professional' free Atmel tools (I know WinAVR and AVRDude aren't really Atmel, but...).

I like the Arduino in it's simple form, but have no desire to learn Wiring, Processing, or Java or anything else to get into the deep end for their system.

Today I did a motor speed control project using a QRD1114 object detector looking at an encoder wheel being spun by a toy DC motor. I got it working using the Arduino IDE and control the motor speed by sending data from my Developer's Terminal. So, IMHO, no one can seriously diss the Arduino for getting real work done. But, again, IMHO, it isn't the path for learning or doing serious C programming, especially were you need to manipulate the AVR guts.

Smiley

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The FLOSS Weekly podcast did an interesting interview with the guy who created the Arduino, and it's certainly not aimed at us microcontroller geeks. It was originally aimed at art students, who were otherwise running a complete laptop with Windows, etc. to flash a few lights on their art installation projects. The intent was to create something easy to use and that cost less than a pizza. Have a listen at http://twit.tv/floss61 for more.

Sean.

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I started learnt very basic AVR assembly at college. Then tried the arduino. Now we're learning "proper" c at college!

I liked the arduino because i just couldnt break through the barrier of the AVR data sheet. Now i have better understanding, i've left the arduino behind. Having said that there seams to be alot of librarys availible for complex stuff that I'm really stuck on atm like using 433 tranciever modules!

At the end of the day, it allowed me to get started with more intresting (and complex) stuff keeping my intrest there! I think its a good idea, just not my prefrence!

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The Arduino is huge.

I'm an engineer and I work with a lot of artists/MacBook-crowd and every single one of them knows about the Arduino. They teach it in all the art colleges that I know of and it has replaced laptops as the method for "just switching a light on and off".

I'm absolutely kicking myself that I didn't invent it first!

You have to remember that we are the 1% of people who anything about such tech, the rest of the people don't (or don't want to) know how it works at a low level and the Arduino is absolutely sufficient for their needs.

I'm pretty happy that they're learning C(ish) as well. :)

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My purpose for using the Arduino is simply to jump over the "complexity-barrier-to-entry" that daunts many of us when it comes to working directly with chips, controllers, etc. I have some digital circuitry experience, and 27 years of programming experience, but I want to prototype something rapidly, get a patent for something I have an idea for, and THEN I can either spend the time and effort to build it out in mass-reproducible form (lowest cost, proper design), OR, if it seems like it's really going to be a money maker, and I can find investors, I just pay some super hardware/software engineer to build it all for me, duplicating the functionality of the prototype and properly engineering what I wanted to build in the first place. So, prototyping tools like the Arduino have their place. Plus, if I'm some artsy fartsy hacker type who wants to do some cool stuff for Burning Man, then I don't give a crap about C and learning the details of the controller. I just want to get stuff done! That's what the Arduino is good for. It opens up doors for people who would otherwise not even think about knocking on them.

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At any rate: H-EEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPP!!!! Ive tried "at least" 5 LCD libraries designed for AVR and not one.. let me repeat that... NOT ONE.. matches the Arduino LCD library. THEY ALL "ASSUME" incorrectly that im using a 16x2 or 20x2 lcd.. Im using a 20x4 LCD for christs sakes!

THEREFORE...

CAN SOMEBDOY PLEASE HELP ME to: port / translate / carry / lob / heave / whatever... the ARDUINO libraries over to AVR.. and not vice-versa. Why would I want the opposite if in Arduino im limited to only a few chips???

Any

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Based on this and your other posts, I suggest:
Newbie? Start Here!
https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

This might help you to learn how questions are usually asked here and improve the chances of your getting some help, if that is in fact your goal.

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Can somebody help me translate the arduino libraries so I can use them in avr?

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If you need a PCB to mount a Tiny24 (and have a few convenient connections), please have a look at "Free Tiny24 PCBs"

<º))))><

I am only one lab accident away from becoming a super villain.

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Quote:

Can somebody help me translate the arduino libraries so I can use them in avr?

They are written for AVR already - what are you talking about?

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wlewis and Dren both hijacking an old thread with new topics? What is going on?

wlewis wrote:
Can somebody help me translate the arduino libraries so I can use them in avr?
You should start a new thread on LCDs and/or Arduino libraries. If you need a library for LCDs and aren't using an Arduino, then you don't need the Arduino libraries. If you are using the Arduino then you don't need to 'translate' them. What are you trying to accomplish?

Dren wrote:
If you need a PCB to mount a Tiny24 (and have a few convenient connections), please have a look at "Free Tiny24 PCBs"
Please explain your comment. What does this have to do with Arduino? What are you trying to accomplish here?

Smiley

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Sorry guys I had no intention to hijack. I just meant that if someone wanted to use a pre-made circuit, just because they needed to mount a device, there's a free solution.

Does your company sell the Arduino by the way ?

<º))))><

I am only one lab accident away from becoming a super villain.

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