9V USB Rechargeable Lithium Ion Battery PP3 (6F22/6LR61)

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Last years it becomes more and more difficult to purchase a 9V alkaline type in any store, it is no longer a permanent sell, and once appears the price is shameless high.

 

I need one for my Metex M-4630 and I decided to order 500mAh like this:

 

 

From what I know, there is a charger and Step up inside. See pictures  here.  

 

 

Well, I think that this one is fishy (how it can be 4800?)

 

 

Has anyone here actually used a 9v Li-Ion USB battery?

 

Milan

 

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That looks very much like a typo: "Oops - Did I actually write 4800mAh, I meant 480mAh,  Now how that extra zero got there I'll never know".

 

PS: This looks like something Big Clive might be interested in.

 

Last Edited: Sun. Feb 6, 2022 - 11:36 AM
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I googled 9V rechargeable and got https://www.amazon.co.uk/EBL-Rechargeable-9V-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B089CRTDDY

 

It looks like clever marketing.  i.e. 5400mWh @ 9V is 600mAH in real money.

 

Regular Alkaline single-use batteries seem to be 300mAh - 600mAh.   So it looks as if the Lithium ones will give similar performance.   Just means that you don't have to go to the shops so often.

 

"Power Banks" seem to have a similar marketing strategy.   i.e. invent completely crazy numbers.   they know it sells product.

 

David.

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david.prentice wrote:
Regular Alkaline single-use batteries seem to be 300mAh - 600mAh. 
Less for NiMH.

Products - Batteries - Maha Energy (3/4 page)

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Alkaline are single-use.   9V 300-600mAh

NiMH are rechargeable.   Your link shows 300mAh for 8.4V and 230mAh for 9.6V

 

Lithium seems a better bet.  On the other hand,  replacing an Alkaline PP3 in a Smoke Detector every few years is not too arduous.

PP3 is not the sort of battery that you would use for high current devices.

 

Mind you,   Arduino tutorials often show a 9V PP3.   I guess that they expect punters to buy new PP3 several times a day.

 

David.

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Usually there is a boost-converter to produce the 9Volts and this has two side-effects ;
1) the regulator is nearly always operating, therefore the current-draw from the single lithium cell is higher than the current drawn from the battery-terminals. (do not be surprised to need a recharge every 4 weeks or so)
2) there is no gradual voltage reduction during discharge., the boost-regulated voltage is either 9V or 0V.



I see similar short-life behaviour with the 1.5V usb-rechargeable batteries under low-load.


The Kentli brand has a better shelf (and low-load) life but they do not have an internal usb-charger., instead a unique charging system recharges the cell.

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Usually there is a boost-converter

Really?  I would have bet that a "9V" li-ion battery was two series cells and a battery manager (so, 6.x to 8.4V output)

(relatively compatible with the 7.2V (6 cell) or 8.4V (7 cell) NiCd/NiMH versions.)

 

(and I no longer have any faith whatsoever in the "marketed" mAH numbers for batteries from "random" manufacturers.)

 

(Smoke detectors here now seem to mostly come with non-replaceable batteries.  They're supposed to last 10y or so, and then you replace the whole thing at $50/each.  I guess the CO sensors only have a useful life of ~10y, anyway.)

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david.prentice wrote:
PP3 is not the sort of battery that you would use for high current devices

They're quite often found in radio microphones - which are fairly high current ...

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westfw wrote:
I would have bet that a "9V" li-ion battery was two series cells and a battery manager (so, 6.x to 8.4V output)

 

They are real and do have their own 9V charger.

Yet my thread is about "USB" types- those having a USB connector, which means 5V charger in-built.

 

Seems that the major question is a tiny current in uA for boosting, with no load, plus self-discharge.

Also, does 9V drops /a little/ towards li-ion safety minimum voltage- or is the "sudden death" a scenario?

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It is important to delve beyond the '9 volt battery' headline to see if the battery really does produce 9 or 8.something volts.


Attached pic shows one of my single-cell boosted 9V batteries.
It is annoying to remove it from a smoke-detector or multimeter every month or so for a recharge.

Attachment(s): 

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grohote wrote:
Has anyone here actually used a 9v Li-Ion USB battery?

From reading the above posts; the answer then looks like - No.

 

When your battery purchase is delivered please post back your test results of open circuit voltage & performance. ''m considering purchasing some myself.

 

For work/lab I bought this Lithium Thionyl Chloride 9V Battery PP3 https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/9v-batteries/7781080 but it measured 11.2V O/C so didn't like to use it.

 

[Edit]

Darn - I searching for that RS part again I found this Lithium Manganese Dioxide 9V Battery PP3 that I should have bought instead https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/9v-batteries/7845992

Last Edited: Tue. Feb 8, 2022 - 08:23 AM
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mikech wrote:
It is important to delve beyond the '9 volt battery' headline to see if the battery really does produce 9 or 8.something volts.

+1

 

(nearly) all the ones I see are actually 8.something.

 

that said, an alkaline "9V" probably drops to 8.something for a substantial part of its life ... ?

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I have never used them.   It would be interesting to hear from people that have.

 

For something like a Smoke Detector I would want long life.   I don't want to re-charge at monthly intervals.

OTOH,  the USB-charge would be handy for a high-current short-time application.

 

David.

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grohote wrote:

Although this is clearly a win for convenience, it must come at the cost of battery capacity?

 

The charger is going to take up some space, which means the actual battery has to be smaller - hence less capacity.

 

I guess it depends on which is most important to you - convenience, or maximum capacity ...

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awneil wrote:

Although this is clearly a win for convenience, it must come at the cost of battery capacity?

 

To be a fair comparison though you need to consider the power density of the complete battery, and the contained cells.

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david.prentice wrote:
I have never used them.   It would be interesting to hear from people that have.

Indeed.

 

Another question: how long do they take to charge? (a lot of listings seem to omit this detail)

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Similar though minus the safety PCB :
l522-1119.pdf (Energizer L522)

L522 Energizer Battery Company | Battery Products | DigiKey

 

edit : via

Search | Energizer Battery and Charger Technical Information (9V in battery size pull-down menu)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Tue. Feb 8, 2022 - 02:23 PM
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awneil wrote:
how long do they take to charge?

 

The battery is for 3 weeks on observation. On arrival, I charged it with my phone charger, takes one hour to get Blue color.

Then, I connected to my Unimer4 (resistance of 66k) and after 21 days, the second charge was completed in 20 minutes.

Voltage is the same, do not move from 9.14V. So far, good- it charges, it works.

 

Now I should decide whether to connect C100 resistor (5mA: 1k8) or C10 (50mA: 180R), and leave it to the mercy of safety voltage.

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I purchased a kit of 4 9V rechargeable LiION cells and a charger that is powered from a USB wall wart. 

 

I have one battery in my Fluke Meter, another in a Cat5/6 tester, another in a cable tracker kit.

 

All four cells last a Looooong time, and recharge in about an hour or so.

 

Heres teh kit:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/produc...

 

Very pleased with teh results.  Kit has paid for itself already.

 

Now to get a kit for AA, and AAA cells

 

Jim

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This kind is indeed a double Li-ion. Voltage starts at 8.2 and goes down to 7V and more, there is no protection on discharging.

 

Battery producer will be happy with a fully-discharged battery, of course.

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grohote wrote:

This kind is indeed a double Li-ion. Voltage starts at 8.2 and goes down to 7V and more, there is no protection on discharging.

 

Battery producer will be happy with a fully-discharged battery, of course.

 

I am not cutting one open to confirm, or deny your claim.

 

as I wrote, they do what I want…I am pleased.  I’ve moved on

 

jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

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"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

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grohote wrote:

This kind is indeed a double Li-ion. Voltage starts at 8.2 and goes down to 7V and more, there is no protection on discharging.

 

Battery producer will be happy with a fully-discharged battery, of course.

 

At least that could produce above 5 VDC.

 

Here,We're strickly to drycell with variety of size.

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That picture is not a dry cell battery.  It is a SLA battery….Sealed Lead Acid.

 

jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

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jgmdesign wrote:
That picture is not a dry cell battery.  It is a SLA battery….Sealed Lead Acid.

 

There's two types: There's SLA and "Drycell"

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Did you remove it from your moto-byke? What does 6V battery have with this thread, please.

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Jeckson wrote:

jgmdesign wrote:
That picture is not a dry cell battery.  It is a SLA battery….Sealed Lead Acid.

 

There's two types: There's SLA and "Drycell"

 

look at the picture carefully before you get your pen out.  That symbol you circled means do not throw out in the regular trash.  The symbol above lets you know to recycle the battery because ot contains lead.

 

Better picture here:

https://www.parts-express.com/Panasonic-12V-7.2Ah-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-140-465?gclid=CjwKCAjwuYWSBhByEiwAKd_n_hKgQePcQHCut1LVf8dv4R3PoESl4xH-6ph-0VOL2ysOdotXkcdb-xoC7AcQAvD_BwE

 

i use these batteries all the time for replacement of spent UPS packs.

 

jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

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There's two types: There's SLA and "Drycell"

Maybe you meant gelcell.  We used to use them quite a bit.    When I hear "dry cell" it make me think of oldtime radios & science experiments from jr high.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/...

this is informative

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/...

 

 

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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Results, you wanted it.

 

Voltage: it is 9.11V all the time, with no load, or when 5mA (res. 1k8) or when 100mA (res. 90.9 ohm). Confident, voltage does not move.

 

Capacity: 500mAh. Do not be naive- it is a battery capacity. When transformed to 9V, it becomes less. With 5mA discharge (1k8) it takes 38 hours to drain, I checked twice. It means: 190mAh at 9V side. But, as the battery voltage is about 3.7V, then the math is: 9.1V/3.7V = 2.46 * 190 = 467 mAh which is about to be correct, does comply with 500mAh declaration.

Discharging with a rate 5mA does take 38 h, and then, sudden death. You can not have indication of it, voltage just goes down. Time and voltage are measured in my ATmega16 board.

 

Output voltage: as in every switcher, it is a saw-tooth. Voltage becomes a peak, then the switcher stops, voltage steady drop down to the moment the switcher starts again. Without any load, it does have 120mV p-p, and it repeats every 6ms. With 5mA, it has 200mV p-p each 80us. With 100mA, each 1.2us.

 

To resume, battery can be used for 9V, it can supply a lot of current at 9.1V.

Consider 0.2V p-p as a noisy source.

Do not leave it for many weeks or months unattended. I do not know how long, I will put it into my Metex and check...

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I have a cheap meter that chews through a 9V alkaline in about 3 weeks. It has a soft off and I don't believe it is designed very well being a cheap cheap meter.

 

The cost of ZAR200 for a rechargeable versus ZAR85 for an alkaline doesn't require any rocket science to figure out it is waaaaay cheaper using the rechargeable, considering they boast up to 200 recharges.

Wayne

East London
South Africa

 

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