SMT pick and place feeder choices

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I am looking to purchase a small desktop PnP machine to augment the services to clients.

As the machine is small and limited in feeder slot capacity the choices of feeders become a major issue.

I look for some kind of input from the reader on the range of component sizes typically encountered in daily work.

Thank You all.

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If using SMD I try and stick to 0805, 1206 for components which may require higher power or voltage rating.

Occasionally a few 2512.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Pretty much consistent with John.

My choice for those sizes is the need to hand assemble prototypes. For ICs, I tend to choose SOT-23-x, or SO-8 when possible. LCCs and BGA are out of the question.

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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Thanks John and Jim for Your inputs.
It is quite a problem to decide on the requirements and level of investment.

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Mind I have 0% experience in P&P maintenance:

I think what is important in such low volume manufacturing is that you should reduce the most of P&P cost with the smallest count of feeder slots machine.

So the coarse approximation of P&P cost of labor is the quantity_of_elements * time_taken + rework.

Pick the machine and slots based on the

    -big quantity elements (passives, I use 0603 and sometimes 0805) because there are many of them to place and -those low quantity elements that could take a lot of time to P&P and where mistake can cost a lot of rework effort (BGA, lqfp).
All the rest can be cheaply P&P/reworked manually (pitch > 50 mils).

I think you could also buy a smaller machine with reduced count of slots and in case of those few complicated designs make whole process in 2 or 3 steps:

    -In first step you run all boards with light passives
    -then you switch slots for bigger elements and run all boards with second step
    -third step...
    -etc
    -and soldering at the end.
The disadvantage is that you need to stack them somewhere in between those steps but it is a small volume production (not a problem).

Just tailor the design to the machine slots and decide on the count of P&P steps prior the design(routing).
So if the design would fit into two step P&P process but one slot is missing then instead of using 1k resistors and 2k resistors you should either substitute 2x1k in series for 2k or 2x 2k in parallel to substitute for 1k etc..

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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podziękowanie Brutte,

That is the nub of the problem.

How to be everything to everyone?

One of the major hurdles with double dabble method is the tack time of the solder paste versus board complexity versus volume of boards.

As this is meant to complement the prototyping efforts in the bare board area I can not instruct clients to select a specific component value. The design will need to be assembled as it comes in.
Entry level PnP equipment starts with fairly pedestrian feeder slot count say 24 8mm feeders maximum to 52 8 mm feeder slots.Somehow I do not think 24 slots will be much use if a single pass is the goal.Placement rates will probably end up being somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 to 2000 components per hour.

This Year tax laws will allow 100% depreciation in the first year if equipment cost is below $6000.00.

I hope to take advantage of this ruling before the end of financial year.

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ignoramus wrote:
This Year tax laws will allow 100% depreciation in the first year if equipment cost is below $6000.00.

I hope to take advantage of this ruling before the end of financial year.

Hmmm, my accountant didn't warn me of this. I will have to call her in the morning and see what I can "get away with" ... err, purchase as a valid expense.

Thanks.

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Quote:
I can not instruct clients to select a specific component value.

Then you have no choice but to charge customers either for expensive machine with a lot of slots or for P&P made in multiple steps..
Quote:
I do not think 24 slots will be much use

Can you post some links to such tiny entry level P&Ps<6k$?

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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http:www.tudou.com/home/_119696643

http://wzyxing.en.alibaba.com/pr...

The very entry level machine atUSD3700.00 and its bigger variant TM240. does what it says but barely.

Madell DP2006-2, a bit more upmarket with vision at approx USD7500.00

EDIT: that is model 220A @ $3700 and 240 @ $3900

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Ross,

What's the good oil?

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My accountant has not replied to my emailed questions yet. Will let you know when she does.

Cheers,

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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My accountant has replied...

Quote:
2) Yes for the the 2012/13 the immediate capital write off has increased from $1,000 to $6,500. So instead of claiming the depreciation over a number of years, if you buy an asset within 01/07/2012 - 30/06/2013 you can immediately write off the cost. The condition is that you have to be a small business, that is your turnover is under $2 million. If the asset is a motor vehicle it is $5,000 plus 15% of the remaining balance.

HTH,

Ross

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Oh great!! I meet all the above conditions but don't have any money to spend. :(

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:
2) Yes for the the 2012/13 the immediate capital write off has increased from $1,000 to $6,500. So instead of claiming the depreciation over a number of years, if you buy an asset within 01/07/2012 - 30/06/2013 you can immediately write off the cost. The condition is that you have to be a small business, that is your turnover is under $2 million. If the asset is a motor vehicle it is $5,000 plus 15% of the remaining balance.

Does it need to be a new machine?

Here in Europe, the last (few)year(s) there are a lot of companies that went bankrupt, some of them are (small)PCB manufactures with some nice machinery, and I saw a few (costly)P&P pass by for not much money(as the market therefore is specific and rather small), sometimes under 2K.

Isn’t that an option?

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Fleemy,

Yes very much an option.. age is irrelevant ( for the purposes of write-down).
Problem is I am half a world away from Europe and there are not too many machines here on the second hand market. If any, usually snapped up by dealers.
There is a mob called resurface here in Brisbane who do handle second hand gear but nothing as inexpensive as a couple of thousand ( euro?)dollars.
And then the feeders are charged extra. from a couple a hundred a feeder upwards.

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I receive mail from an auction company(Troostwijk auctions), which has agency’s all over Europe, and are specialized in commercial and industrial auctions, they also ship worldwide.

A month or two ago, there was a Swiss PCB manufacturer that went bankrupt(or they moved to an eastern country, not sure anymore) and ‘sold’ all their machinery, infra-red reflow tunnels, P&P machines, automated PCB testing machines, automated drilling machines, you name it and all for nickel and a dime. It’s because for one I don’t have the space, and secondly, don’t really have the need for it, but it was a bargain. Before that there was another company in Italy, a recent and completely automated PCB factory, but sold in one lot only.

I’ll look around, and if I find something interesting, I’ll let you know.

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Fleemy,

I too receive various auction flyer via the Troostwijk network or more precisely GoIndustryDovebid , Branfords and a couple of other companies.

Great way to get scared sh*tless watcing companies go down the gurgler( well at least over the pat few years).

A major problem is shipping large bulky sensitive machines.
They get knocked out of alignment in transit and the cost of freight is not insignificant.

In mid nineties I purchased a bit of gear from BSL from UK ( bought out by EverettCharles now).

Back then the machine was 170,000 GBP air freight 20,000 AUD.
Seafreight would have been out of the question du to the nature of the machine.

More recently a few yars ago used Probot from USA USD10,000 for the machine, USD5,000 for air freight plus ofcourse 10% tax plus cost of importation.

Reducing the cost of freight is possible only by selecting the minimum piece of gear that will do the job.

In this instance it may prove to be difficult.

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There is a company in Victoria, hawkerrichardson.com.au that is a Philips/Yamaha, Panasonic, etc. operation. They might be able to hook you up with something pre-owned, or they at least should have an idea where to find something near you. I have two Philips machines (two tons worth!) that I bought well-used and they do a fine job. Set one up in your garage or build a shed over it 8-)

Tom Pappano
Tulsa, Oklahoma

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UPDATE:

Have decided to go with a Polish made Mechatronica M10V
( http://www.mechatronika.com.pl/c... )
capable of processing 0201 components.
Placement rate is not the highest but the initial outlay is acceptable.

Only drawback ... summer holidays in Europe, machine delivery end of August.

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Any detailed specification? Could not find anything except a brief leaflet.

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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Brutte,

The information on the website is basically all there is in open domain.

Anything else is gleaned from various videos on You tube and discussion with sales reps.

The factory was particularly good in providing answers to specific questions.

In the end it was a toss-up between Mechatronika from Poland and a similarly named German company Mechatronic Systems.
Both make smaller SMT assembly equipment.

Do you have a particular question?

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Quote:
Do you have a particular question?

Nothing specific. I just wanted to know some general technical and maintenance details, drawings, warranty terms, user's manual, durability, standard easily available spares/nozzles/reels holders etc. I thought they provide this information in some kind of documentation I could not find on their website.

No RSTDISBL, no fun!

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All a part of commercial offer.

The feeders are available in a variety of block configurations as well as vibratory ski slope feeders for tubes, JEDEC trays, bulk bins and cut tape feeders.

Factory warranty 12 months but some agents provide 24 month coverage.

Nozzles from 0402 up to 35 mm device packages.
Machine is claimed to be able to process 0201 components but I have not seen reference to 0201 nozzles.

I guess 0201 will become relevant as time progresses.

I have a copy of the manual which is for now confidential and can not release it's content. But it does contain service and maintenance information.
Feeders are available for both 7 " and larger 12" reels ( 300 mm I think is the standard size ). The machine frame caters to
a decent size PCB / other bulk feeder space.

I have ordered two blocks of feeders offering 18 x 8mm, 5 x 12mm, 2 x 16 and 2 x 24 reel feeders one vibratory feeder with SO8,SO14 or SO16, SO20,SO24,SO28 tube holders as well as a JEDEC tray.

The interesting option is bulk bins. A tray with pockets which can hold loose components. Vision system is taught the shape and orientation of component. The machine then looks at the appropriate bin and selects a component from the bin and places it.

Makes for a larger online inventory but chews up a bit of time.

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Might I be so bold as to ask what the total cost, including all the feeders, came to?

Tom Pappano
Tulsa, Oklahoma

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Tom,

A tad over 20KEuro.
EDIT: FOB

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I haven't priced anything new, but with all the feeders, etc. that looks like a pretty neat and capable little machine for the money. Thanks!

Tom Pappano
Tulsa, Oklahoma

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Proof of the pudding etc...

Will keep You informed of just how good it turns out to be.

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Looking forward to hearing how it works out! I will say that with my first p&p, the well-used CSM84, it paid for itself in only 90 days- it is very satisfying to watch a machine place parts instead of doing it yourself with a pair of tweezers 8)

Tom Pappano
Tulsa, Oklahoma