Damaged AVRISP chips

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BrianMcCann
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Posted by BrianMcCann: Tue. Aug 17, 2004 - 06:25 PM
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I have several damaged AVRISPs. I would like to replace the 90S1200 and 90S8535 with 90S2313 and Mega8535 since we have these in stock. I've tried reading the firmware out of a good programmer but it is code protected. I've also tried programming the 2313 with the AVRProg firmware in AVR910.asm but the software indicates that no support board is found. Once I have the firmware for the 2313 I can program a new 8535. Or, is the firmware file STK500.ebn available in a non-encrypted format? Any ideas?

Thanks.

Brian.

Tags:

AVR Microcontrollers, megaAVR and tinyAVR, AT90S1200, AT90S2313, AT90S8535
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mjthomas
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Posted by mjthomas: Tue. Aug 17, 2004 - 07:22 PM
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The STK500 firmware will work on an ATmega8535 (ext. XTAL)
There are some AVR910 compatible firmwares for the 2313 available (I think there is one in the academy too, AVR910 V2.X). This designs use the hardware UART so you may have to change some connections. The stk500.ebn file is encypted but only the file, the transfer of the firmware via update.exe or avrprog (see "manual update" in the AVRStudio online-help) to the internal AVR910 (1200) is "unencrypted". You may also use an ATmega16 with a AVR109/910 compatible bootloader installed, transfer stk500.ebn via avrprog.exe and bootloader into the mega16 flash and then read the flash into a "unencrypted" hex-file which can be programmed into a ATmega8535.
HTH, Martin

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Wed. Aug 18, 2004 - 01:49 AM
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Hi,

Check out http://www.newae.com/download/fi..., I think you may just find it handy ;-)

Regards,

-Colin

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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sutton
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Posted by sutton: Wed. Aug 18, 2004 - 07:20 AM
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Colin
The link does not seem to function.

Keep it simple it will not bite as hard

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Wed. Aug 18, 2004 - 12:33 PM
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Hi,

Sorry there is a comma at the end that got added into the link automatically, just remove it to get http://www.newae.com/download/fi...

Regards,

-Colin

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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BrianMcCann
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Posted by BrianMcCann: Wed. Aug 18, 2004 - 03:02 PM
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Thanks for the information. I did download the zip file and will play around with the programmers the next time I get some free time. Previously, I have tried to program the 2313 with the AVR910 firmware then I realized I need a software stack. Also, I have to modify the prescale value since the AVRISP uses 3.68MHz resonator. I haven't tried the new files yet, probably this weekend.

Thanks again.

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Bronze Marktheusch
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Posted by theusch: Wed. Aug 18, 2004 - 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Previously, I have tried to program the 2313 with the AVR910 firmware then I realized I need a software stack.

A while back ( a couple of years, maybe) someone did all the work to "port" the '1200 to the '2313 for that task. [that gives enough room to handle all the devices, etc.]

I don't know if it was posted as a project, or as an attachment on the old Forum. Try searching it out.

[edit] Check project 173 in the academy.
[edit] Search this Forum for "avr910 2313" & examine the long thread "AVR910 Programmer Modifications". I speculate that js made the "3.0" and the poseters in the Academy project updated it to "3.1".

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Wed. Aug 18, 2004 - 03:20 PM
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Hi,

The files in my ZIP include the hex file from the AT90S1200 and AT90S8535. It is actually from the STK500, but should still work.

Regards,

-Colin

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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jeffjacques
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Posted by jeffjacques: Thu. Aug 19, 2004 - 11:37 AM
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What's with the AVRISP anyway? Is chip failure an issue with it? I do not use one, but a friend of mine is on his third, and his company said they will not purchase any more. They seem to think he keeps breaking them.

TIA

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jeffjacques
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Posted by jeffjacques: Thu. Aug 19, 2004 - 01:05 PM
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That makes sense, Steve. I've seen him hot-swap other devices, so maybe the AVRISPs too. Beginning to wish I'd said something when instead I withheld my gasp (I'm a bit anal about that, a holdover from my early CMOS days). Guess I should bring the issue up (diplomatically, of course!).

Cheers

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Bronze Marktheusch
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Posted by theusch: Thu. Aug 19, 2004 - 03:04 PM
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jeffjacques wrote:
What's with the AVRISP anyway? Is chip failure an issue with it? I do not use one, but a friend of mine is on his third, and his company said they will not purchase any more. They seem to think he keeps breaking them.

TIA

I've had the same STK500 on my desk for about three years. It has a politically-incorrect 1 meter 10-wire ribbon cable off the 10-pin ISP header that is then adapted to the ISP header on our products (typically a 2mm 6 hole SIP).

I usually have one chip mounted in the STK500 with some test program or another running. I might program half a dozen different targets in a day. For testing I usually power the targets off the ISP cable, but many are mains powered as whole assemblies.

I've never blown up an STK500 or ATAVRISP, nor have had any become unusable due to firmware "loss" or failed to upgrade when needed.

We have other divisions that actually produce and test the AVR-based products that our division designs. We have purchased and deployed about 5 STK500s and at least a dozen ATAVRISPs for "production" programming [our volumes are modest]. They are used by all kinds of people, many of which are just following production steps. I have yet to hear of an unusable programming station. And most of our programming is done by just holding pins into the ISP SIP holes.

Now, we avoid hot-swapping, but sometimes I forget. :) Maybe what saves us is we have all 5V designs so we don't run into level shifting situations?

In summary, I don't think ATAVRISPs are all that bad. And they are so inexpensive and reliable compared to other ISP alternatives that if one "wears out" once a year at each programming station, it is no big deal.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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sxpilot450
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Posted by sxpilot450: Thu. Aug 19, 2004 - 03:44 PM
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I would love to see the AVR ISP with an FTDI 232BM as the input (replacing the serial port and max232).

Then power could be given to the AVR ISP via the 5v USB connection.

Has anyone made one of these? FTDI is seen naturally now by Windows XP Pro in Virtual serial port mode.

This is really just to have flexibility and not require power to the AVR ISP.

Regards

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BrianMcCann
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Posted by BrianMcCann: Thu. Aug 19, 2004 - 04:40 PM
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We hook quick-clips up to a pogo-pin assembly that feeds 3.3v/5v from the power supply to the ISP. We then let the ISP power the target. Our problem is sometimes we forget to turn the power supply to 5v from 12v. Other times when we let the target power the ISP the 5v regulator may be damaged where 12v is on the 5v rail. We may try one programmer then try another then another. Next thing we know we have three blown programmers before a light goes on in our heads to check the UUT. Other than that We have found them to be pretty robust. The AVRISP does have isolation resistors on the clock and data lines that help protect against hot swap damage.

Anyway, great web site. I'm finding the info very usefull.

Thanks.

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Thu. Aug 19, 2004 - 05:55 PM
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I pretty much always hot-swap the AVR ISP :shock:

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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BrianMcCann
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Posted by BrianMcCann: Fri. Aug 20, 2004 - 04:34 PM
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I was able to fetch my own STK500.ebn in a similar way mjthomas suggested. Using a 2313 with modified AVR910 firmware, I programmed a mega163 with STK500.ebn. I found that the AVRProg still code protected the chip. I then simply commented out the SPI writes for programming the lock bits. I was expecting a programming failure during the lock bit verification. The AVRProg didn't complain. I read out the firmware, set s8535 compatibility fuse bit then programmed the mega8535. It works like a charm. Attached is my STK500EBN v409.hex which corresponds to the latest version of Studio 4.09 Build 338.

Thanks All.

Attachment(s): 

Binary Data STK500EBN v409.hex
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JKolstad
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Posted by JKolstad: Fri. Aug 20, 2004 - 05:19 PM
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BrianMcCann wrote:
We hook quick-clips up to a pogo-pin assembly that feeds 3.3v/5v from the power supply to the ISP. We then let the ISP power the target. Our problem is sometimes we forget to turn the power supply to 5v from 12v. Other times when we let the target power the ISP the 5v regulator may be damaged where 12v is on the 5v rail. We may try one programmer then try another then another. Next thing we know we have three blown programmers before a light goes on in our heads to check the UUT.

Hey, join the club! I've blown up two doing pretty much exactly the same thing. After the second time, I installed 6.8V TVSes (the big fat ones) across the +5V rail, and this has protected the AVRISPs since then.

My problem was that occasionally +12V would get shorted to the +5V rail. Now, the TVSes kick in and effectively short the supply. I have a current-limited supply that 'clicks' and lights up red when this occurs, and assuming I'm there to see/hear it happen, I can fix things long before the TVSes blow. But the board this was on never needed more than 3A at 12V; hence I use that as the current limit. If you're doing something where you need, e.g., 100A at 12V obviously you'd need a little more sophisticated means of protection. :-)

---Joel Kolstad

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