WinAVR and sources

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To whomever from Atmel listening here:

I know you don't call it WinAVR now so insert whatever ridiculous name you invented for it ("Toolchain" is it? I lost clue): will it be released standalone without the "IDE" bloat I am not interested in (and possibly separate from the AVR32 stuff), as promised?

Also, are the current sources of the GNU stuff/patches available? I am not interested in them personally but apparently there are folks around who are willing to to do support for Linux users, once you refused to do so.

JW

PS. Good to see support of STK500 now in AS5.
PS2. Good to see continued support for the AS4.

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wek wrote:
Also, are the current sources of the GNU stuff/patches available?

Dont know if it is realy actual, but look here:
http://distribute.atmel.no/tools/opensource/

CU

Programmers never die
they just GOSUB without RETURN

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Sadly, it's a bit dated. We'll see about getting the latest online for you next week. Also I posted a bug to add dates for the components at http://distribute.atmel.no/tools... I realized it was a bit hard to tell when stuff was put online, just by looking at the web pages.
for future reference: bug14172

PS! Personally I think the names are quite to the point

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OKB,

Are you talking about the sources or prebuilt win binaries (I was asking about both)?

Jan

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Ah, sorry I thought that the stuff in http://distribute.atmel.no/tools... was prebuilt's. My bad. I'll talk to the guy that maintains the "AVR Toolchain" about when we'll put out a windows installer for the toolchain. It will probably be both 8- and 32-bit in the same installer though.

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Thanks, OKB, for the swift answer.

To be honest, I did not check either, seeing the "source" in the file names...

I'd like to see the installer as slim as possible, that's why I am asking for separate AVR8 and AVR32 ones.

I also believe there's significantly less interest in the AVR32 stuff out there, so that might save some bandwidth (I know Atmel does not care, given AS5's installer size; but believe me there still are folks out there with less than lightning speed and unlimited data internet connection who do care).

Jan

PS. No free Sundays at Atmel? ;-)

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Hi Jan
Please do not think that we do not care about the download size. We actually WANT to provide you with the ability download exactly what you need and nothing more, however that's a rather complicated mechanism to get right for more than 200 different devices. Since we do not have unlimited resources, we work of a prioritized list. In other words we'll need quite some time to make that mechanism if ever. In the mean time we have our hands full providing you with a good AS5.0 experience. I'll relay your concerns about the size and what architecture you feel that the market wants to the decision makers, but judging from the marketing campaigns they all ready gave that second issue a thought or two ;)

-Ole

PS. I'm here at a Sunday afternoon, because I care about your feelings for the product I help make. That also goes for several other dev's from the AS5 team (and other AVR products) who pops in during the off hours to see if there's something we can help you with, or if you found issues we need to address, especially now in the beta period.

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Thanks, Ole.

Jan

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Cheers Ole!

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Update:
We made some headway regarding the AVR Toolchain release procedures and responsibillities this week. We have a separate windows installer ready for you, but it needs to go trough the publish to web procedures for new products and that may take some time. (We at the engineering side did not see that comming :( Sorry about that)
I'll post an additional update here when it's out. It'll be identical to the AVR Toolchain that came with AS5.0Beta2. Stripping of symbols and publication of those will have to be addressed later

-Ole

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Quote:

It'll be identical to the AVR Toolchain that came with AS5.0Beta2

I hope not given the serious error identified by one of your colleagues in a separate thread!

https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

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OKB wrote:
We made some headway regarding the AVR Toolchain release procedures and responsibillities this week. We have a separate windows installer ready for you,[...]

Thanks, Ole. I appreciate it.

Allow me a few remarks, though.

First, is it necessary for it to be an installer? If it is the usual dumbly-doing-all-it-was-told-to-do type, and I suspect it is, I will need to go and clear my PATH afterwards (I hope that's all whats needed).

OKB wrote:

[...] but it needs to go trough the publish to web procedures for new products and that may take some time. (We at the engineering side did not see that comming Sorry about that)

I understand that. Nevertheless, I was under the impression that you have direct access to http://www.atmel.no/beta_ware/ , and since this IS a beta anyway...

OKB wrote:
I'll post an additional update here when it's out.

Thanks. Looking forward to it... Wink

Jan

Last Edited: Fri. May 20, 2011 - 08:14 AM
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OKB wrote:
[...] but it needs to go trough the publish to web procedures for new products and that may take some time. (We at the engineering side did not see that comming :( Sorry about that)

Apparently, a week's time was not enough to push it through to the web. Or am I missing something?

I am sad that the formal procedures at Atmel are so rigid and lenghty. I see this not only as a disregard towards its customers, but even towards their own employees (who give up their free time just to help us).

:-(

Jan Waclawek

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Hi Jan
I can only say that we're sorry about this, and that we're getting there soon.

Regarding the beta_ware site, "new products" will not be put there. Sorry about that also. But please continue to give us feedback it's vital for us, to improve on the problems you face

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The delay makes me wonder what might happen sooner: Eric compiling and issuing a new WinAVR, or the "publish to web procedures" for the "official" toolchain at Atmel.

No hurry, I just wanted to play with it.

Jan

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Hi Jan, I'm not going to make excuses this time. I'm just about as frustrated as you are.
As you might have noticed the 5.0 is out. The AVR Toolchain was submitted to the web guys at the same time the 5.0 was. The toolchain installers (win and linux) for the toolchain version that was included in the beta2 was submitted weeks back, but was said to be scheduled for release on the web at the same time the new version was. That was a one time slip, as I explained previously, and the procedures and responsibilities have been made so this should not happen again. All this being said I still can not find either on the atmel.com. I'll look into it.
I' promise to post you a link here the minute I manage to locate it ;)
Hopefully all this will not be an issue again with later releases.

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Ole,

Please, don't take it personally. I do appreciate that you care.

I personally am too busy at the moment to be sad it's not out yet, just wanted to be a bit nasty... ;-)

Thanks again.

Jan

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Quote:

Hope this helps all of you who prefer a separate toolchain

You mean the Mac and Linux users who can't use AS5?

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OKB wrote:
The toolchain installers and source are finally on the atmel.com

Thanks.

Now some findings:

  • funny that the idiotic "registration" can be bypassed if the links given in "what's changed" page are used - [censored remarks on the webmaster ;-) ]
  • can't find 8-bit sources/patches, only 32-bit sources/patches (see also below) - not that I need them, but once the 32-bits are so readily available...
  • release note say:
    Quote:
    AVR 8-bit GNU Toolchain is distributed free of charge for the purpose of developing applications for Atmel AVR processors. Use for other purposes are not permitted; see the software license agreement for details.
    I believe you can't put this restriction into a work derived from GPL-licenced stuff (hello, ArnoldB! ;-) ), but IANAL. I also tried to read through the 80+kB licence stuff displayed during installation and could not find a mention of such restriction.
  • 100 meg win installer is for both 8- and 16-bits, wants to unpack into 400+ megs. When I untick the 32-bit stuff in the installer, it says it needs only 200+ megs (actually the 8-bit only version occupies around 230-250 megs depending on "allocation unit" size). Browsing through the installed stuff there is quite a couple of things which could be thrown out - lengthy changelogs, duplicate documentation, multiple copies of the GPL text. I don't say it spares a lot of space, but IMHO it's worth. It would be also worth to clean up the directory structure.
  • installer overwrote the PATH environment variable without warning. I know it is documented in the accompanying notes, but it would be nice if there would be an option to avoid this in the installer, so that I don't need to fix it every time I install a new package just to play with it (Eric: the same for WinAVR)
  • oh, once installed, it appears I do have the 8-bit patches - but also the 32-bit ones, even when I did not ask for the 32-bit stuff... ;-)
Later will also try how does it work.

Thanks again,

Jan

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wek wrote:

[*]installer overwrote the PATH environment variable without warning. I know it is documented in the accompanying notes, but it would be nice if there would be an option to avoid this in the installer, so that I don't need to fix it every time I install a new package just to play with it (Eric: the same for WinAVR)

Hi Jan,

FYI, the error mechanism in WinAVR that overwrites the PATH has been identified, though a solution has not yet been devised. I'm planning on getting this fixed for the next release of WinAVR.

I don't know about the error mechanism in the AVR Toolchain installer. It uses a different installer software than WinAVR.

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Eric,

So far, I thought it is a FEATURE rather than an error... ;-)

Thanks for taking care.

Jan

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For those people who can't or don't want to install the Windows toolchain to get the patch files.

Attachment(s): 

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Jan, thanks for your valuable input. Regarding the license I'll pass that along. Eric might have insight to share on this?

Atomic: thanks for the help, we're laboring for you not to have to provide this service in the future... I'll try to remember to post here when we have deployment of source and patches properly in place.

Eric: See you soon, safe journey :)

-Ole

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As an FYI, you can bypass the registration page by replacing "software_download.asp" in the URL with "software_download_splash.asp". If there's enough interest I'll have a crack at making a GreaseMonkey script to auto-correct the URL.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!