The next dirty trick: Tool documentation no longer online

Log in or register to post comments
Go To Last Post
26 posts / 0 new
Author
Message
ArnoldB
ArnoldB's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Thu. Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 3185 View posts
#1
Posted by ArnoldB: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 06:56 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

In the past one could get outdated tool documentation at http://support.atmel.no/knowledg... Going there I now only get a "Directory Listing Denied" error.

Going to http://support.atmel.no and trying to click through to the information also doesn't help. I am now redirected to http://support.atmel.no/bin/cust...

The online documentation was typically outdated, but it was the only legal way to get some documentation for Atmel tools if one wasn't using Studio. Now it is gone.

I know, someone at Atmel is madly snickering in his or her cubical, thinking he or she is very clever to deny us that information and to force us to use Studio 5 with this and other dirty tricks, having great fun. Let me tell you something. You are not clever. You are not funny. You are just clueless and incompetent. May your private parts be infected with fleas.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

Tags:

Tools, Atmel Studio (AVR-related)
Top
OKB
OKB's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Mon. Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 101 View posts
Location: Atmel, Trondheim
Posted by OKB: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 08:24 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

We're working on it ArnoldB. we're working on it. If I remember, and feel inspired ;) , I might even PM you when we do have this for you.

BTW which help were you looking for?

Top
ArnoldB
ArnoldB's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Thu. Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 3185 View posts
Posted by ArnoldB: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 07:06 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Oh come on, pull the other one. You were under time pressure to get AS5 out of the door, after a one year delay. But you still did find enough time for a thorough cleansing of the web site. Don't tell me this wasn't intentional. It must have had high priority, taking your time pressure into account. Time pressure, which is so high you can't even fulfill your obligations under the GPL.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

Top
Bronze MarkJohanEkdahl
JohanEkdahl's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Wed. Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 26945 View posts
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posted by JohanEkdahl: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 08:59 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

We're working on it ArnoldB. we're working on it.

Do I get this correct? You've pulled the online version of AVR Studio 4 help while AVR Studio 5 is still in BETA? Really...

Quote:
I might even PM you when we do have this for you.

What does it take (apart from being a big industrial buyer, and you being inspired) to get special treatment from you guys?

Quote:
BTW which help were you looking for?

When not at an AVR Studio 4 equipped machine, I have used the online documentation for STK-500 and AVR Studio to double-check specific tech details before answering questions here at AVRfreaks. Latest attempt was a HVSP problem a few days ago, but I got hit by the denied directory listing, and just gave up for the moment.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Top
Bronze Markjs
js's picture
Level: Moderator
Joined: Wed. Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 31284 View posts
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweis, but plenty of Corona beer)
Posted by js: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 09:05 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

...I would not argue with anyone who seems to be a good archer...

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

Top
Bronze MarkJohanEkdahl
JohanEkdahl's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Wed. Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 26945 View posts
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posted by JohanEkdahl: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 09:10 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I see that I failed to pose the central question: What are you working on? Getting the Studio 4 docs online again, or getting the Studio 5 docs online?

If the former, then just take your own techlib DVD February 2011 and slam the contents onto the nearest web server with capacity. PM Arnold and he will tell the rest of us..

If the latter, will you release the STK-500 support at the same time?

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Top
OKB
OKB's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Mon. Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 101 View posts
Location: Atmel, Trondheim
Posted by OKB: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 09:31 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

now, I'm not the expert on these mechanisms, but from what I gather(heard from someone who heard it from someone, mind you) the documentation was purged from the server by a script after remaining there unchanged for a certain number of years. Again: nothing done deliberately to annoy you guys.

When and what will be released I cannot comment.
But I can say this:
User documentation for the web: yes we're working on that. If you have immediate needs; you guys all know by which canals to contact us.

As to what inspires me: Happy, civil users do ;)

Top
Bronze MarkJohanEkdahl
JohanEkdahl's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Wed. Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 26945 View posts
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posted by JohanEkdahl: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 09:41 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

As to what inspires me: Happy, civil users do Wink

Was that arrow aimed at me, OKB? If so: Please point out where I was un-civil and I'll fix it.

Quote:
If you have immediate needs; you guys all know by which canals to contact us.

Oh, I thought the canal was this place. Should I e-mail "Please put the Techlib February 2011 contents online on a web-server somewhere" somewhere? Honest question - i will surely e-mail if you say "yes". support@atmel.com?

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Top
ArnoldB
ArnoldB's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Thu. Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 3185 View posts
Posted by ArnoldB: Tue. Mar 15, 2011 - 10:20 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

OKB wrote:
now, I'm not the expert on these mechanisms, but from what I gather(heard from someone who heard it from someone, mind you) the documentation was purged from the server by a script after remaining there unchanged for a certain number of years. Again: nothing done deliberately to annoy you guys.

Oh sure. And the same magic script removed the separate download of ASF from atmel.no, too. After ASF remained unchanged for, what, three weeks? Yeah, sure.

Really, I am sure you like to meet at the coffee machine, smirk and pat each other's back for showing those pesky non-Windows users who's boss. Do you keep a score board there to keep track of who comes up with the most pervert idea to force AS5 onto users?

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

Top
OKB
OKB's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Mon. Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 101 View posts
Location: Atmel, Trondheim
Posted by OKB: Wed. Mar 16, 2011 - 10:49 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

JohanEkdahl wrote:

Oh, I thought the canal was this place. Should I e-mail "Please put the Techlib February 2011 contents online on a web-server somewhere" somewhere? Honest question - i will surely e-mail if you say "yes". support@atmel.com?

Honest question deserves an honest reply:
The Studio5 developers that hangs here do this because we care about your opinions about the things we make.
As such it may pay off to not start by insulting us when "help" is wanted. ;)
avr@atmel.com is the best way, as we use request tracking tools there.
However the tech lib CD does not contain the userdoc in a suitable format.(it's inside the AS4 installer).

When looking more thoroughly I think my script theory is wrong. try this:
https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=no&biw=1200&bih=1537&q=stk500+site%3Asupport.atmel.no&btnG=S%C3%B8k&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

looks to me as if the documentation is still there, but that the directory listing is turned off, or a top level document is missing. If you guys can tell me which of the two, then maybe we can do something about it.

Top
Bronze Markjs
js's picture
Level: Moderator
Joined: Wed. Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 31284 View posts
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweis, but plenty of Corona beer)
Posted by js: Wed. Mar 16, 2011 - 10:09 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I tried to find a datasheet for the device but the ROTTEN Atmel website will not let me find it :evil: It's absolutely useless!!!!

edit...posted in the wrong thread but appropriate anyway https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

Top
Trym
Trym's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Sat. Feb 23, 2002
Posts: 156 View posts
Location: Trondheim
Posted by Trym: Wed. Mar 16, 2011 - 10:24 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Put ATA6870 in search field.
Click on first result
Click on Documents
Click on Datasheets

Lars K

Top
Bronze Markjs
js's picture
Level: Moderator
Joined: Wed. Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 31284 View posts
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweis, but plenty of Corona beer)
Posted by js: Wed. Mar 16, 2011 - 10:37 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm glad someone can navigate the site. :) I had no problems with the older site.

Can we have a seminar on site navigation please? Even a simple tutorial would do. :wink:

If I, with about 11 years experience with Atmel stuff, can easily get frustrated and give up imagine what it will do for your "prospective" new client.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

https://www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

Top
Bronze MarkJohanEkdahl
JohanEkdahl's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Wed. Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 26945 View posts
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posted by JohanEkdahl: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 08:48 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

As such it may pay off to not start by insulting us when "help" is wanted. Wink

Since this is a reply specifically to a post of mine, I repeat: Please help me identify where I have posted something insulting above and I will rectify it.

Not being rhetorical here - I will gladly change any choice of words if you point it out to me.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Top
OKB
OKB's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Mon. Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 101 View posts
Location: Atmel, Trondheim
Posted by OKB: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 09:21 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Sorry, Johan. The quoting came out wrong for my post.
I don't want to pick up this glove. you were simply in the way when I loosed my arrow ;)

However my question remains: directory listing settings or missing top level document?

Top
EW
EW's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Thu. Mar 1, 2001
Posts: 4914 View posts
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posted by EW: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 01:15 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

OKB wrote:
Sorry, Johan. The quoting came out wrong for my post.
I don't want to pick up this glove. you were simply in the way when I loosed my arrow ;)

However my question remains: directory listing settings or missing top level document?

Hi Ole Kristian,

It's not the users job to debug Atmel Norway's website.

However, since you mentioned "missing top level document", all one has to do is to add index.html to the URL, like so:

http://support.atmel.no/knowledg...

And it seems to work ok now.

Eric Weddington
www.linkedin.com/in/ericweddington/

Top
Mongooose
Mongooose's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Thu. Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 139 View posts
Location: Alabama Gulf Coast
Posted by Mongooose: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 03:27 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

it looks like the web server must not have a default page listed to display for each directory. From the main index page if you click on the AVR One you get a directory listing denied error, but once again if you add index.html to the url in address you get the main page for AVR One user guide.....

edit:
The link that was clicked on only has the directory IE:
http://support.atmel.no/knowledg...
Where the links for most of the tools ends in a specific file IE:
http://support.atmel.no/knowledg...
And some links end with the index.html IE:
http://support.atmel.no/knowledg...

looks like lack of a standard for how it is organized, as well as no default file specified in web server settings to open when a file is not specified in the directory.

Top
ArnoldB
ArnoldB's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Thu. Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 3185 View posts
Posted by ArnoldB: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 06:02 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

OKB wrote:
As such it may pay off to not start by insulting us when "help" is wanted. ;)

You want to talk about insults, OK, lets talk about insults:

I find it insulting that Atmel ignored the most prominent feature request over several years.

I find it insulting that Atmel even acts as if this request did never happen.

I find it insulting that Atmel tries to force-feed AVR Studio 5 down our throats as if it is the best thing since sliced bread.

I find it insulting that Atmel thinks the GPL doesn't apply to them.

I find it insulting that you think I buy your story about the magic script.

I find you childish backstabbing attempts insulting.

You start to get the picture? No? OK, I am sick and tired about the Atmel lies, arrogance and shenanigans I have to hear for the last three years. If you think I will suck dick to get "help" you are badly mistaken.

Was that clear enough?

[Maybe Arnold needs a dose of his own medicine? JS]

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

Last Edited: Fri. Jul 8, 2011 - 06:22 AM
Top
Bronze MarkJohanEkdahl
JohanEkdahl's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Wed. Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 26945 View posts
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posted by JohanEkdahl: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 07:16 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Arnold.

What follows is all IMO:

I do not know how your frustration re these matters measures as compared with mine. You might win hands down over me in this respect, and if so then you are REALLY FRUSTRATED. But this does not excuse such language as in your last post. If you met e.g. an Atmel FAE at a fair, would you talk to him in this way (I'm hoping not..).

For all our sakes, could you consider editing it out?

Please?

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Top
ArnoldB
ArnoldB's picture
Level: Raving Lunatic
Joined: Thu. Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 3185 View posts
Posted by ArnoldB: Thu. Mar 17, 2011 - 07:50 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

To answer your questions: No, I won't edit it out. This is apparently what it takes to make sure the message is received. And it is already the restrained version. If a moderator wants to edit it out, be my guest.

Yes, I would talk to an FAE in person in that way if he shows the same attitude, to make absolutely sure he get it. Don't piss on my neck and say it's raining. You get the idea? Maybe that Atmel guy does now, too.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

Top
pokhara
pokhara's picture
Level: New Member
Joined: Tue. Mar 1, 2011
Posts: 1 View posts
Posted by pokhara: Fri. Mar 18, 2011 - 02:09 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

js wrote:
I tried to find a datasheet for the device but the ROTTEN Atmel website will not let me find it :evil: It's absolutely useless!!!!

AS5 links directly to the device page / datasheet at www.atmel.com. If you select a device in the project wizard a link will also take you directly to the appropriate page. Not so difficult. Worked when I tried.

Top
Bronze MarkJohanEkdahl
JohanEkdahl's picture
Level: 10k+ Postman
Joined: Wed. Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 26945 View posts
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posted by JohanEkdahl: Fri. Mar 18, 2011 - 02:25 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Not so difficult.

Unless you opt out re (the current version of) AVR Studio 5.
Why should I need to start any IDE to be able to locate anything on a web site?

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Top
RickB
RickB's picture
Level: Posting Freak
Joined: Sun. Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 1347 View posts
Location: Junction City, OR USA
Posted by RickB: Fri. Mar 18, 2011 - 02:36 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

AS5 links directly to the device page / datasheet at www.atmel.com. If you select a device in the project wizard a link will also take you directly to the appropriate page. Not so difficult. Worked when I tried.

So, the site has been redesigned to make information less accessible to anyone without AS5? :twisted:

Top
krist10an
krist10an's picture
Level: Wannabe
Joined: Thu. May 20, 2004
Posts: 70 View posts
Posted by krist10an: Fri. Mar 18, 2011 - 03:04 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Oh sure. And the same magic script removed the separate download of ASF from atmel.no, too. After ASF remained unchanged for, what, three weeks? Yeah, sure

The ASF that is included in AVR Studio 5 is available on www.atmel.com/asf

Top
krist10an
krist10an's picture
Level: Wannabe
Joined: Thu. May 20, 2004
Posts: 70 View posts
Posted by krist10an: Fri. Mar 18, 2011 - 04:09 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

EW wrote:
OKB wrote:
Sorry, Johan. The quoting came out wrong for my post.
I don't want to pick up this glove. you were simply in the way when I loosed my arrow ;)

However my question remains: directory listing settings or missing top level document?

Hi Ole Kristian,

It's not the users job to debug Atmel Norway's website.

However, since you mentioned "missing top level document", all one has to do is to add index.html to the URL, like so:

http://support.atmel.no/knowledg...

And it seems to work ok now.

Agreed.

This is a mistake related to a recent upgrade of the support server. I've reported it, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Top
kalbun
kalbun's picture
Level: Hangaround
Joined: Tue. Mar 2, 2010
Posts: 132 View posts
Location: Firenze, Italy
Posted by kalbun: Fri. Mar 18, 2011 - 06:31 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

After reading this thread, I ask myself if my company did the right move when choosing Atmel as sole MPU provider.
What you write seems to confirm that Atmel is paying less and less attention to technical partners and maybe to small customers in general. This is deja vu, STM is doing the same AFAIK (but at least they don't release buggy MPUs :lol: )
Let's hope this is a transition period, sort of "growth pains" :cry:

Top