ATtiny85 programming hardware "emulator"

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#1
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Hi all,

I'm about to go to PCB fab with a gadget to allow in-circuit programming of the ATtiny85 with full isolation of the programming pins including RESET/PB5 for high-voltage programming.

Details here

http://www.robgray.com/emul8or/index.php

Schematic

http://www.robgray.com/emul8or/documentation/docs/emul8or-SCH.pdf

PCB layout

http://www.robgray.com/emul8or/graphics/pcb-2.png

Does anyone have thoughts on features or spot an error before I commit to having boards made.

NOTE: This is not a programmer it's an adaptor to isolate pins to save having to remove the chip every time it's programmed, it is designed to work with an existing programmer.

______
Rob

Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
Rob Gray, old fart, nature photographer, embedded hardware/software designer, and serial motorhome builder, www.robgray.com

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If you are developing a Tiny85 program, surely it is easier to just develop with a Tiny that has extra legs?

Then you can do regular ISP. Or debugWire to upload your programs.

Since you are using DIP8 devices, you must be using a socket for the 'emulator'. After your development is over, you re-compile for the Tiny85, burn the RSTDISBL fuse and you are done.

Any subsequent redevelopment will follow the same procedure. You remove the DIP8 Tiny, transfer to STK500, perform HVSP, replace.

You just need an adapter board that contains the larger Tiny and plugs into the DIP8 socket.

David.

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Thanks David, I knew someone here would have a better idea. The 84 is pretty close and has enough extra pins, so for the sake of some conditional assembly I save building a gadget.

The only catch I can see is if the application wants to use the USI you're back to the same problem of clashing pins because you can't map those pins in software. Currently what I have in mind doesn't use the USI, but future applications might.

Whether or not it's worth building this for a future "might" is another story.

_____
Rob

Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
Rob Gray, old fart, nature photographer, embedded hardware/software designer, and serial motorhome builder, www.robgray.com

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I am assuming that the whole reason for this thread is because you want to use the RSTDISBL fuse.

i.e. you want to use the /RESET pin for GPIO.

Otherwise the USI pins tend to map to the same PORTB bits. I would think that a Tiny861 would be a closer match.

David.

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Danni's "tiny loader" can actually (boot load) over 1 pin
https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

Might be an option

/Bingo

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Hai
Can I follow...
Great emulator....for HVSP for attiny.the USBasp+emulator for attiny HVSp.
I'm still confuse..Is the HVSP only related /reset(12vdc) and RSTDISBL fuse different than "regular ISP"??
If that only...just provided +12vdc with transistor which driven by reset signal from normal ISP and added isp program for RSTDISBL fuse..
Did I make big msitake??

Jeckson

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Quote:

.Is the HVSP only related /reset(12vdc) and RSTDISBL fuse different than "regular ISP"??

No, it's not that simple. The first thing you should do to clear up your confusion is to read in the data sheet for the specific ATtiny model you are thinking about.

There will be separate sections for ISP and high voltage programming (in the chapter "Memory Programming"), with descriptions of things like what pins/signals they use, what the programming algorithm is etc.

After reading those sections, THEN you come back here and point out what you don't understand in those sections and we'll talk about that, OK?

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

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@David: I looked at the 861, saw that USI and SPI shared pins and thought it had the same problem, ie potential pin clashes between the programmer and an application if the application needed to use the USI.

I just reread the spec sheet though and see that by setting USIPOS in USIPP I can move the USI to different pins. Problem solved. My "emulator" can be just a small converter board and a few #ifdefs in the code.

Thanks for the tip.

@Bingo600: Thanks for the bootloader link, it looks like it could be useful.

______
Rob

Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
Rob Gray, old fart, nature photographer, embedded hardware/software designer, and serial motorhome builder, www.robgray.com

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Quote:
No, it's not that simple. The first thing you should do to clear up your confusion is to read in the data sheet for the specific ATtiny model you are thinking about.

There will be separate sections for ISP and high voltage programming (in the chapter "Memory Programming"), with descriptions of things like what pins/signals they use, what the programming algorithm is etc.

After reading those sections, THEN you come back here and point out what you don't understand in those sections and we'll talk about that, OK?

NO can do with "passive style"..Must added MCU between that like Graynomad doing.

Regards
Jeckson

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Quote:

NO can do with "passive style"..Must added MCU between that like Graynomad doing.

Not sure that I understand those two sentences at all..

I thought you where asking: "Is the only difference between ISP-programming and High Voltage Serial programming how the reset line is handled/treated." If so the answer is "No, it is not that simple..."

If you where asking something else then maybe rephrase your question. Try to write in in clear and finished sentences. Avoid the ellipses (...) in the way you used it above. They might mean a lot to you, but for the reader they convey no meaning at all. (Rather, the ellipses should be used eg when cutting a quote short as I did above - there is it clear that I just didn't want to type the whole answer once again. I.e. use the ellipses when both parties in the communication can infer without doubt what they represent.)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Hai
JohanEkdahl

Uups..I meant that cann't doing with "passive style".
Meant that added something like dump converter and modified the AVRdude..with satnadard ISP.

Regards
Jeckson

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I still don't understand whether you are asking a (follow-up) question, or are arguing with me. I give up.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Jeckson,

Maybe try using this:

http://www.google.co.uk/language...

it can translate Indonesian to English. Type the point you are trying to make into that then post the English translation here.

=================================================
Mungkin coba gunakan ini:

http://www.google.co.uk/language...

bisa menerjemahkan Bahasa Indonesia ke Bahasa Inggris. Ketik titik Anda mencoba untuk membuat menjadi yang kemudian posting terjemahan bahasa Inggris di sini.
=================================================

Moderator.

(though I have to say your English is better than my Indonesian ;-))

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Hai
I bargain for my poor English.
Let me explain....

Graynomad made Emulator for ISP to HVSP
I thinking that possible to made "dumb converter" like Elm-Chan doing with HVSP.
http://elm-chan.org/works/avrx/r....
He's using Parport PC for HVSP.Thought to risky.

I'm thingking is that possible without ATtiny85,But with normal ISP+1 for SCK and /Reset 12VDC only.

HVSP very complicated reading,writing,etc task.

No can do to modified with ISP+"dumb converter"+modified avrdude.Must used MCU for that ISP to HVSP.

Jeckson

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Thanks for the input, here's MK2.

Following from David's suggestion I'm using a Tiny 861, but if a single 861 is good then two has to be better right?

So this design has a controlling 861 that talks to the emulating chip and also an FTDI cable to a PC. This will allow IO for a monitor program.

Another pin on the emulating chip is brought out to a header to allow the application to trigger an LA or CRO.

Reset is handled by the controlling chip mostly to allow daisy-chaining of two or more emulators.

Mk2 does not allow for HV programming, just normal ISP.

New schematic

http://www.robgray.com/emul8or/documentation/docs/emul8orMkII-sch.pdf

I still might build Mk1 because it is a more geniune emulation, for example you can use AREF with Mk1 but that's not practical with Mk2, but MK2 has a lot more potential for debugging because it has links to the outside world to display data and trigger test equipment.

______
Rob

Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
Rob Gray, old fart, nature photographer, embedded hardware/software designer, and serial motorhome builder, www.robgray.com