WinAVR20100701 first impressions

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I guess y'all saw this too?

https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

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IDEs - they are 49% crap and 49% marketing (as you have guessed by now, the rest is the useful part of them). Being mostly a toy for those who merrily call themselves "freaks"

Excuse me for being blunt, but that is bull. It seems to me that you are only trying to argue that your way of being smart and productive is the only way.

I know a lot of very smart, highly productive programmers that spend their whole day in IDEs getting excellent help from ode formatting, code completion, source browsing, refactoring and project management.

My reason for using IDEs is simply that I'm stupid to the point where I can not memorize two-, three- and four-letter control-character-combination in Emacs or any other of those type-your-name-and-see-what-happends-editor. They also tend to standardize on at least the more common manouvres. Bending of the learning curve and all that.

I suspect that your opinion of IDEs in general being crap is the fact that your brain actually copes with remembering all those pesky non-intuitive and non-mnemonic control characters, command options and function names. I envy you for that.

Had to answer though the debate is moot as the IDE(s) "will be released separately" as you noted...

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:

I suspect that your opinion of IDEs in general being crap is the fact that your brain actually copes with remembering all those pesky non-intuitive and non-mnemonic control characters, command options and function names. I envy you for that.

When I was 20 I remembered every last control sequence for CP/M Word*Star (^KB, ^KK, ^KC spring to mind to copy a block), now I'm ~50 I don't remember what happened yesterday :?. Maybe IDE's are a "crutch" to support us grumpy old men and our failing memories?

(admittedly I'm a bit of a luddite sometimes and I actually wrote a program on Linux yesterday using nothing but "nano" and invoking "gcc" from the command line. For "code completion" I used "grep" in /usr/include ;-))

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I'm a simple user of AS4. I rarely use simulation (yet). I basically use it for project management, compiling, and programming. For that I find it mostly acceptable. The one thing I wish I could do is use a different editor (like PN) in the AS4 interface. I use WinAVR20100110 for just about everything except the Tiny10. For that I use the "WinAVR" from the toolchain.
I'm pretty sure (from reading here) that the new interface will be eclipse based. I don't like it. I'd have to do too much relearning. Plus I like having all of my project specific files in the same directory sub-tree. Not everything in the "workspace" folder. I'll give it a try though. Can't just dismiss it without trying it first. I do like the formatting, etc done in PN though.

Jim M., Rank amateur AVR guy.

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For "code completion" I used "grep" in /usr/include

What have you spun around grep to quickly select one of the hits (when several) and (in all cases) pressing (eg) the tab key to get the selection inserted into your source? I know. Nothing. That's not code completion. That's just a "Find in files" but outside of any IDE, preventing you from simply double-clicking on a hit line ad get the file opened in an editor window.

I also LOVE grep. Extremely powerful. But it's not code completion. Or do you use a hammer-head w/o a handle to drive nails?

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I didn't say it was a GOOD solution for code completion ;-), merely that it found the prototypes for the system/library functions I wanted to call.

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