Collaborative File Management?

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Hi Folks -

First, let me say, right from the start, I am NOT interested in git or any of the other project management systems. I have spent some time trying to to make sense of git, for example, and the project will be done by the time I get anything useful to work.

Normally, I work by myself, but over the next month or 2, I am on a collaborative project. We have a pretty sharp boundary between what he will be working on and what I will be working on. but, we each will have a need to compile and test the project as it is at various points.

So, I am looking for some simple place where we can jointly stash files, update them when needed, and download what we need for testing. No bloody forking or committing or checkout or any of that stuff. I looked at Google's document sharing but they don't accept .c or .h files. I have no need to edit them on line, just store and share.

Suggestions, anyone?
Thanks
Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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You can't have the cake and eat it too. That said, when an engineer refuses to learn some tool of the trade there is something wrong, and not with the tool.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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No, I am not refusing. It is simply that the project will be done before either of us will learn enough to make it useful.

I also don't think I am asking for cake. Mud pies will do just fine. I am simply looking for the next step better than constantly e-mailing files back and forth.

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Jim, I'd probably just rename the files (main.c becomes main_c.txt, sub.h becomes sub_h.txt, etc.) and use Google Docs if you want it quick and easy. They say they can handle plain text, which is presumably .txt files.

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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I use UK2.net for web hosting which gives me a lot of storage that I can use for other purposes:

http://www.uk2.net/

They also lease servers.

There are lots of similar services.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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http://www.megaupload.com/?c=signup

I've only used this a couple of times, mostly to upload/download .wav files.
And that was several years ago, but it worked perfectly at those times.

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Ah, sure, I like Chuck's idea! And, thanks for the other suggestions.

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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I really like using http://code.google.com for my projects, but they're all GPL3.

I have too many hobbies.
s-conductor.com

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Jim!

Set up an FTP server?
Set up a Hotmail account, which will also give you 25 GB of online storage (SkyDrive)?

I had a look at Dropbox, but I turned around and walked away as it seems to need to install an executable on my computer. Don't like that..

Quote:
I have spent some time trying to to make sense of git, for example

I know this is war stuff, and that there might be others who disagree, but IMHO you didn't pick the easiest version control software to start out with. Saying this in hope that you haven't lost heart in eventually making another attempt at some version control system.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Ok, Johan, what would you suggest other than git? The only other thing I know about is subversion and it does not look significantly different.

Thanks
Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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ka7ehk wrote:
I have spent some time trying to to make sense of git, for example, and the project will be done by the time I get anything useful to work.

hi Jim,

Subversion is really simple if you try the TortoiseSVN windows client.

However for your purpose Dropbox works really really great, and it's hassle-free! I use TortoiseSVN for code sharing in medium-scale projects and Dropbox for just a couple of files.

cheers,

ben

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Yeah, tortoiseSVN rocks. git is quite hard for me to grasp as a concept, even if I have worked with CVS and SVN, even put SVN servers in place etc.

While the working copy clearly is "checked out" on your local hard drive, you can have the repository on local hard drive or usb stick or network share. Or you can very easily set up a dedicated SVN server by using svnserve to work with svn:// protocol or apache with http:// protocol.

It still does not remove the fact that your coworkers have to access it from remote site etc. How about Minishare, or the abovementioned ftp server, if you can directly put services to internet.

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Thanks, guys... I check tortoiseSVN. Hope they have a Mac version!

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Quote:

The only other thing I know about is subversion and it does not look significantly different.

I concur with the opinions above re Subversion. Still, eith the situation, time available, the project at hand atc, I'd go for the simple alternative to find a free storage place on the Internet.

If you and your companion are not on the same local net the process of setting up any version control system get a wee bit more complicated, and involves security stuff. Eg you are setting up a server that you are exposing on the Internet. Port scans, DoS atacks etc has to be dealt with.

So my comment about Subversion was not a recommenation for you in your present situation, but rather an encouragement for some other time when the circumstances are right for a version control system.

As I said above, Hotmail seems to offer 25 GB of free storage. You will have to work out some kind of scheme so that you do not try to update at the same time, and so that someones update not gets lost (this is exactly one of the things that a VCS dos for their users). It might be that I have those 25 GBs as I am a paying a small annual fee for my Hotmail... Go take a look at the terms!

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I do appreciate your suggestions, Johan!

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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TortoiseSVN (and other Tortoise for other version control systems) is for Windows. It relies heavily on the plugin capabilities of Windows Explorer.

There is a Mac client, called SCPlugin. I know nothing at all about it, it's function and capabilities, it's quality etc, but if you want to investigate then start here: http://scplugin.tigris.org/

The Tigris site is hosted by Collabnet, the company behind Subversion. In my world it is a most trustworthy site.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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There is a Mac version of RapidSVN, which I have used a bit - but I don't remember much about it. I personally liked the TortoiseSVN client better, which integrates to Windows Explorer shell.

And Subcommander is for Mac too.

Once there were some at least Windows GUI software that was a GUI for both SVN and CVS - but forgot the name.

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Thanks for the great input!

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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I am in a very similar situation, although my colleague to whom I have the "sharp interface" sits next to me, so we e-mail only seldom (but we do), mainly use a shared directory.

Both of us manages his incremental backup on his own (I simply zip and rename - disk space is incredibly free nowadays; I believe my colleague does something similar).

Every time one of us changes a shared file (interface definition), he puts it onto the shared directory (or sends through e-mail); if needed, compares to the old version in the working directory using a diff tool (to see the changes); then moves it into the working directory. The individual incremental backups take care of getting back to the changes whenever needed; and a more or less carefully written diary/log helps to locate the appropriate backup based on the date.

At this level of colaboration, cvs/svn/git provides you little to no extra to this, and requires the significant resources (mainly human) you mentioned.

YMMV.

JW

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Quote:

At this level of colaboration, cvs/svn/git provides you little to no extra to this, and requires the significant resources (mainly human) you mentioned.

That I'll have to comment on.
SVN helps you create the carefully kept log
SVN helps you merge things when several persons change the same file(s)
SVN helps you go back to a previous version of things with ease
SVN helps you compare what happened between revisions
etc etc..

What are the "significant resources (mainly human)" you are referring to?

In my world, it would be a heck more of a job to manually ZIP things together, timestamp them, send them off to a well controlled storage place, detect conflicts due to concurrent editing by hand etc...

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Quote:

At this level of colaboration, cvs/svn/git provides you little to no extra to this, and requires the significant resources (mainly human) you mentioned.

That I'll have to comment on.

You are absolutely free to do that.

I've been through this - and similar - discussions too many times, and I am not going to argue here - I intended to give an opinion, nothing less, nothing more. Maybe an unconventional one, but I couldn't care less.

Remember, it's the particular task which determines the appropriateness of tools, not our personal wishes nor the "general" opinion.

JohanEkdahl wrote:
What are the "significant resources (mainly human)" you are referring to?

Time.

JohanEkdahl wrote:
In my world, it would be a heck more of a job to manually ZIP things together, timestamp them, send them off to a well controlled storage place, detect conflicts due to concurrent editing by hand etc...

Well, then maybe in your world they don't have the right tools to "manually" ZIP things together, timestamp them etc.etc.

As I said above, YMMV.

JW

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http://unfuddle.com/ has free 200MB SVN hosting for 2 people.

Figure it out at home if you have to, create a test repo and play around.

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I've used version control systems (SCCS, RCS, PVCS [which I developed], and SVN) for years on software development projects with 1 to dozens of developers. I currently use SVN and wouldn't embark on any non-trivial development project without it or something similar. In short, my opinion is that version control systems are invaluable and worth the effort to adopt.

Don Kinzer
ZBasic Microcontrollers
http://www.zbasic.net

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Quote:

http://unfuddle.com/ has free 200MB SVN hosting for 2 people.

Very interesting!

As always, one wonders what makes people set up resources for free, but this site seems to be one of the many that offers a basic free service as a sales promotion for the paid-for services that offers more features. Gonna sift through the terms'n'conditions, and if there are no uncomfortable strings attached I will try it out.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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wek wrote:
At this level of colaboration, cvs/svn/git provides you little to no extra to this, and requires the significant resources (mainly human) you mentioned.
What a load of bull.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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Quote:

maybe in your world they don't have the right tools

OK, so I get, or make myself, a tool that can
- repeatedly store the state of my source code etc at a certain point in time in some kind of central repository
- making that repository available to others,
- making it so that it logs with username, supplied comments etc, why I stored the state at that time,
- making it so that I later can extrac a certain version, inspect the log etc
- making it so that I can compare things stored at diferent times to track the changes to the source code,
- making it so that others can do those operations also in the same repository,
- making it so that it detects when things I store and things other people store are in conflict,
- making it so that it helps me resolve those conflicts with suitable helper tools,
- making it so that all those operations are "at your fingertips" either in Windows explorer (or whatever) and on the command line, and preferrably in both
etc etc

If I am to make this, it will take me substantial time. OTOH, I might look for something already written that does this.

In my world we have the right tool: Subversion.

(Others might prefer Mercurial, or Bazaar, or SourceSafe or ClearCase or Git or...)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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ArnoldB wrote:
What a load of bull.
Said the fly, with delight... ;-)

ArnoldB, you are a wise man, and surely know better to present arguments.

JW

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Quote:

maybe in your world they don't have the right tools

OK, so I get, or make myself, a tool that can [... a list of 8 items, and an "etc.etc." ;-) ]
In my world we have the right tool: Subversion.

Sure.

Now please go back to KA7EHK, Jim's original post, and ask yourself: how much of that HE might be needing?

JW

PS. If I would be made to use M$WE or a bare command line to move around and manipulate files, my poor hands would have fallen off long ago. That might explain some of my views.

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Johan, Wek,

I have used both methods. Both might work.

Wek's method is easy as many people are familiar with different software that is needed, and many people use different zip packing software and different diff software etc, but you need to install all you need yourself, like 7-Zip, WinMerge etc.

However, using TortoiseSVN Explorer shell extension, it installs all you need at once. You can use the master repository on network share like you have been storing zip snapshots.

But I guess neither is what Jim needs now, if other people work remotely.

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If you want to avoid the concepts of a source code management system I would go for a shared drive. You get a shared network drive over the internet, where the files can be seen on all computers. There an article on the subject on wikipedia with a long list of providers. Many of them have a free entry-level package which might be sfficient for your needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_storage

Yes, you will have to install a piece of software locally, but if you need the service then you can live with the software necessary to provide it. After all you installed AVR Studio and probably Microsoft Office and more.

Markus

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
There is a Mac client, called SCPlugin. I know nothing at all about it, it's function and capabilities, it's quality etc, but if you want to investigate then start here: http://scplugin.tigris.org/

Maybe some day, but not yet. At this point I'm surprised they even let you download and see it, for seeing SCPlugin in its current state may lead people to draw hasted and unnecessarily harsh conclusions.

The Dark Boxes are coming.

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Quote:

Sure.

Now please go back to KA7EHK, Jim's original post, and ask yourself: how much of that HE might be needing?


I'd say that he might have use for a significant part of it. Still ,given his projects present circumstances, I adviced not to go for a VCS but rather a shared drive.

You, on the other hand, described a somewhat different situation, eg implying that you and your colleague where on the same (sub-)net and then finished with

Quote:
At this level of colaboration, cvs/svn/git provides you little to no extra to this, and requires the significant resources (mainly human) you mentioned.

which I read as pertaining to your situation description, not Jim's. As the conclusion was sweeping and insubstantial I felt I should counter that.

I did this not to give Jim advice (I hope my advice to Jim has been clear, and he can take it or leave it without any respect being lost).

I did this so as to rebutt a statement that I read as "if two persons are collaborating on a software project, then a VCS will give little or no benefits compared to you setting up a shared drive where you edit logs and store ZIP files of the source code collection in evolving generations". And in a later post you wrote something that I read as "You don't need a CVS, you can construct your own from tools, storing the state of the source code in timestamped ZIP files [etc]", which I also thought needed a rebuttal. The rebuttals are needed so that no visitors to this thread see your view of VCS'es stand un-challenged. In this respect I am done, and unless you toss new petrol on the flames I have no need to argue further.

If I have been unclear: Jim, in your shoes I would go with the shared folder somewhere on the Internet (eg unfuddle).

Arnold wrote:

Yes, you will have to install a piece of software locally, but if you need the service then you can live with the software necessary to provide it. After all you installed AVR Studio and probably Microsoft Office and more.

I'm probably paranoid. In fact I mpost definitively am. Eg I have Google Analytics forbidden to script in my Firefox unless it is absolutely necessary for watching a web-page that I can't do without. I'd be darned if I would let something onto my hard drive that spies on my activities and local storage without my knowledge and conscent (AFAIK neither MS Visual Studio nor Office do). Still, you point to Wikipedia, and I don't think that they'll do either, so I just might try that out just to see how it works.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Yes it is very suspicious to have any online service, but to need special software to use it. Most likely Windows-only.

There has got to be several ways to use online storage without special Windows-only software. Java in a browser, plain HTTP protocol, FTP, whatnot.. But it all needs the server side to run those services.

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I'm using RapidSVN on Linux , and it works excellent (i suppose it will be similar on Mac).

For windows i use Tortoise

Btw: Jim .....
If managing your own subversion server (as i do) , these hints might come in handy ...

When you are creating your first project repository , and curses about where that FSCK'ing user/password file is :-)
it is located inside the conf subdirectory in the project repository dir , named passwd.

I made a (Linux) script for creating new "sub repositories" , as i kept forgetting how i created one.

Call by : sudo ./makerepos.sh

make-repos.sh content

#This script must be run as Root 
svnadmin create --fs-type fsfs /home/samba/subversion/avr/$1
#Copy skeleton to newly created repository
cp -a /home/samba/subversion/avr/skeleton/* /home/samba/subversion/avr/$1/
chown -R user:group /home/samba/subversion/avr/$1/

The "skeleton" , is actually a new created empty repository , as i adapted once w. user/passwords etc.

Now i just copy all that stuff into the new repository , and usr/pass etc. all matches , my old settings.

The chown part needs to have user:group changed to something valid.

/Bingo

Last Edited: Wed. Dec 9, 2009 - 03:55 PM
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Nobody here where I work understands what I do, so I work alone (ooh, with nooobody else...) but I have a SVN server running to keep track of my changes, and when my hard drive goes to the great Western Digital Graveyard in the Sky, it's great to have a backup in SVN.

I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

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Bingo600 wrote:

Now i just copy all that stuff into the new repository , and usr/pass etc. all matches , my old settings.

I hope you realize also the unique ID of all the repositories is the same. I think that is not a good thing. I am not 100% sure if it is sufficient to edit the repository name in the config file, but it may still have same unique ID.

It would be far better to make your script use svnadmin to create a new repository, and then overwrite the config and passwd files maybe. However you may be able to teach svnadmin to create default files according to your liking.

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Sorry, I have missed a bit of this on-going discussion in quasi-realtime.

The project situation is that I am consulting for a developer who works for the US Government (non-defense agency). He is somewhat limited in what he can do networking wise, with external stuff (like git depositories, etc). He is about 1000 miles (600km) from me so I may never even see him, face-face!

Further, the project needs to be done by mid-January, or so. My concern is that if I take the time to learn git or svn or what-ever, the project will be over-deadline with only an mediocre understanding of some version control system and an unfinished project. Old story, right? Two months ago, when it would have been more appropriate, neither of us thought this far ahead. Old story, right?

So, I am trying to figure out some simple way to share files. If necessary, we will just e-mail things back and forth. I was hoping for something a little better than than, but that might have to do. THEN (queue to insane background laughter....) I will learn some kind of version control.

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Jepael wrote:
Bingo600 wrote:

Now i just copy all that stuff into the new repository , and usr/pass etc. all matches , my old settings.

I hope you realize also the unique ID of all the repositories is the same. I think that is not a good thing. I am not 100% sure if it is sufficient to edit the repository name in the config file, but it may still have same unique ID.

It would be far better to make your script use svnadmin to create a new repository, and then overwrite the config and passwd files maybe. However you may be able to teach svnadmin to create default files according to your liking.

I use fsfs , and not DB , so everything is relative to the path.

And i have never had a problem :-)

/Bingo

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Bingo600 wrote:

I use fsfs , and not DB , so everything is relative to the path.

My guess is that repository type is irrelevant.

Bingo600 wrote:

And i have never had a problem :-)

Most likely you won't, but if you mess something up, you can accidentally commit working copy of project X to repository of project Y, and you won't get a warning that the working copy ID is different from repository ID.

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Jim,

You'll have to see what your partner can do to send files. If he can do ftp these online storage services can still apply as many of them do support ftp to upload/download files. Downloading will be not a big problem anyway because there usually is a web-interface. Some of them even allow uploading via the web-interface too. And you can use the shared drive interface or ftp/web depending on what you prefer.

I usually use my website (shared web hosting) for such things. One of things coming with all web hostings is a ftp server where you can define users. So it is easy for third parties to ftp you a file. I mention this because a webhost account in you name might be politically more correct than a 'public' online storage service.

I understand your concerns with whatever code management system. There is a learning curve. However, once you get used to it it is a great way to manage your code.

Markus

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Would it be possible to set up a simple network, one crossover cable is all you need to get two PC's talking, then just go through the network set-up wizard, oh you will both have to create a shared directory, should be no more than a few hours work.

Mick

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The two "sharers" are at least 1000miles/600km apart. Would be a long crossover cable, indeed!

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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I've just learned about Mercurial. Jim, you might want to try it. It's really very simple and you don't need to setup a dedicated server for it. Any machine with an external IP would do. It can be your machine, it can be your partner's — you both share the repository anyway. The tutorial:
http://mercurial.selenic.com/gui...
it starts with a lone coder scenario, then a second partner 600km apart joins in.

The Dark Boxes are coming.

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I'll take a look at your Mercurial tutorial. I have a Comcast account but I don't know what that means with respect to "external IP address. It is my understanding that such ip addresses change from time to time.

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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The tutorial suggests that you can even sync repositories by email, if regular internets are not well. Heh, you could actually sync covertly by posting diffs in some public forum :D

The Dark Boxes are coming.

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ka7ehk wrote:
I'll take a look at your Mercurial tutorial. I have a Comcast account but I don't know what that means with respect to "external IP address. It is my understanding that such ip addresses change from time to time.

Jim

Don't know anything about your internet operator, but not all give you public IP addresses, thus you are able to start a connection to outside world, but outside world is not able to start a connection to you. These techniques include NAT etc. At least in here, if you really want a public IP address (for setting up home servers you can reach from anywhere) it costs more.

Also your company might have a public IP address, but you may be behind a NAT. In this case company network admin is able to open up ports for you, or set up a server for you.

It is another matter how you get allocated a IP address. You may have a public IP address, but dynamically allocated, so it changes. Again the point of paying more is to have a fixed public IP address.

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I'm learning to use Hg in the meantime and I learned that while it's cool to be able to run it as a server, it's equally cool that you can export all changes from one repository copy, send it to another machine as a text file and re-import the changes.

Hmm BitBucket also offers 150Mb of free private storage, which is tempting to try. The cool thing about this is that unlike the way it is with SVN, each user has a complete repo copy and if BitBucket hits itself, you only lose the service, not your data.

The Dark Boxes are coming.

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Hi Jim,

As Paddy mentioned way, way, way up this thread, you might want to consider DropBox. Drag and drop a file to the box and it is present on the other CPU(s).

Nate at Spark Fun just posted his own dialog about how easy it was to set up and use. Check the SFE home page within the next day or two, before the story disappears to somewhere else on their page.

Free for up to 2 GB of files in the box.

JC