Schematic- and PCB design programs

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Plons
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#1
Posted by Plons: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 02:39 PM
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From time to time, questions are posted on what is
the best schematic- or PCB-design program.

As a service, members of AVRfreaks.net created this list: This introduction- and instruction-post, and then a single post per program. The pro's and con's are discussed, cost, where to download, and an example.
This thread will be dynamic: post your input, comments etc. Your input will be processed by a moderator, (I will do that for the kick-off), such that a comprehensive thread results.
Discussions are allowed :) , but those posts will disappear in the end, and only the result will be published. That may be a challenge .... but let's give it a try ;)

Nard

Jan 26 2009: Thread tidied up

Note: if you have created your own library for your favorite design-program, don't hesitate to post it in this thread. Also usefull links are welcome.

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

Tags:

Learning and Information, General Electronics, Mouser, MultiSIM BLUE, OrCAD, ARRL, Wine, PCBmodE, gerbv, Mentor Graphics, PADS, Gerber files, Android, cheap pcb services, Upverter, EDA, Altium, Docker, Eagle, CircuitStudio, PCB
Last Edited: Fri. Aug 31, 2018 - 07:12 PM
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    Plons
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    Posted by Plons: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 03:31 PM
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    ExpressSch and ExpressPCB

    URL: http://www.expresspcb.com/ ; no costs

    Required OS: Windows
    Description: The downloaded package holds 2 programs:

    - ExpressSch
    For schematic entry, files are stored in a proprietary form ( .sch ), but can be edited by
    other users. The schematic can also be exported as .bmp in various resolutions. 200 dpi is preferred. Use your favorite program to turn that into a .png before posting here on AVRfreaks.net

    - ExpressPCB
    To create a pcb-design. It is linked to the schematic. The output-file is proprietary to Expresspcb.com. For a fee they will provide the Gerber-files.

    Usernotes:

    tpappano: Expresspcb has a nice free schematic program along with their board layout program. Easy to use, and they turn out pretty nice boards as well. The cad files are a proprietary format, but ExpressPCB can supply you with Gerbers if you want them. The charge for the Gerbers (so far) has been $60.00 You simply request them via email using the board order number, and they email a .zip very promptly. The charge is added to the same credit card you placed the board order on.

    Plons: I use the ExpressSch program to do schematics and did not use their pcb-service.
    The learning-curve for this program is flat: you can start right away after installing the program. A comprehensive "How to get started ..." can be found in the Help-menu.
    Keyboard shortcuts: W for Wire, F for FullScreen .... it's almost self-explanatory. Mouse-wheel zooms. Creating new symbols is very simple.
    My rating: an A !

    Marzipan: A major downside is that the components aren't automatically connected to their footprint. Once you've made the schematic you have to again add each component to the board design, even though the two files are linked. Not very efficient.
    I agree that it's very user friendly and intuative and that the getting started manual is awesome.
    The schematic library is refreshingly easy to browse. However it is very limited. You'll find a large online community with a library of components you can add at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/expresspcb

    Contributions by: tpappano, Plons, Marzipan ....

    Usefull links: http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Tools/Tools_page.html You can find there a ExpressSch components library that I created for my own convenience, but feel free to use it (edit it, improve it, etc.)

    Attached: exported schematic (converted to .png) as example; if you wish to post the .sch-file, zip it first.

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon ExpressSch_exported.png

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

    Last Edited: Thu. Mar 5, 2009 - 02:54 PM
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    Plons
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    Posted by Plons: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 04:01 PM
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    Eagle

    URL: http://www.cadsoft.de/freeware.htm ; freeware
    http://www.cadsoft.de/ ; full version, several packages
    For pricing: http://www.cadsoft.de/prices.htm

    OS: Packages for Windows, Linux and Mac (FreeBSD users: works well with the Linuxulator)

    The following limitations apply to the EAGLE Light Edition in general:
    * The useable board area is limited to 100 x 80 mm (4 x 3.2 inches).
    * Only two signal layers can be used (Top and Bottom).
    * The schematic editor can only create one sheet.

    Description: Very popular package amongst AVRfreaks.

    Usernotes:

    Smiley: I use Eagle mainly because there is a free version and I've already climbed most of the learning curve. Sparkfun has a tutorial: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce... and there is a manual and tutorial that are installed in the /doc directory. Eagle seems to be a command line program that has had a Windows IDE tacked on to it. The IDE is a bit clunky at times and it helps to think in terms of the underlying command line structure. There is an unlabeled command line window above the drawing area and sometimes it is easier to enter commands there than try to figure out how to do something graphically. BatchPCB is a good way to get inexpensive PCBs and it has a tutorial on converting Eagle files into files suitable for production.
    One thing that I have to force myself to remember is to set the View\Grid to 0.1" at the very first before adding or moving anything. Some library parts are on an odd grid so you might have to set the grid smaller to move that part back to the main grid, then be sure and reset the grid to 0.1". I'm not saying you should or even can get all parts on a board at 0.1" but IMHO it is best to start with that setting and only vary from it if it is really necessary.
    A good example of using Eagle in an open source project can be seen for the Arduino at: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Arduin...

    Marzipan: Eagle Cad can do everything you need it to do but the learning curve is so huge that it's hardly worth it. You have to be willing to spend some serious time with the tutorials if you want to use it. And be prepared for a mission every time you want to find out how to do something new. Not even the cut and paste keyboard shortcuts are standard!

    Contributions by: Smiley, Marzipan, mikeperks ....

    Xmega library by mikeperks: https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Tools&func=viewItem&item_id=956

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

    Last Edited: Fri. Mar 13, 2009 - 01:45 PM
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    Plons
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    Posted by Plons: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 06:56 PM
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    Freepcb

    URL: http://www.freepcb.com ; freeware
    On the homepage a nice example is shown, so no need to attach it here.

    OS: Windows

    Description:

    FreePCB is a free, open-source PCB editor for Microsoft Windows, released under the GNU General Public License. It was designed to be easy to learn and easy to use, yet capable of professional-quality work. It does not have a built-in autorouter, but it can use the FreeRoute web-based autorouter at freerouting.net. Some of its features are:
    * 1 to 16 copper layers
    * Board size up to 60 inches by 60 inches
    * Uses English or metric units (i.e. mils or mm) for most functions.
    * Footprint libraries courtesy of Ivex Design International Inc.
    * Copper fill areas
    * Footprint Wizard and Footprint Editor for creating or modifying footprints
    * Imports and exports PADS-PCB netlists
    * Exports extended Gerber files (RS274X) and Excellon drill files
    * Design rule checker
    * Autosave

    Usernotes:

    johnrk: I have used FreePCB to create the last three boards for my low vision barcode reader, I used ExpressPCB on the first version. I have also sampled other layout software such as PCB Artist (a proprietary program offered by Advanced Circuits) and the freeware version of Eagle (mention above).
    In all of these programs I have always found the generation of, and/or access to footprint libraries as the biggest hurdle to overcome. And, when I first began using FreePCB it had the unique FOOTPRINT WIZARD! Inputting the package dimensions from your chosen components printed datasheet the FOOTPRINT WIZARD created a custom footprint that could then be saved in the "User" library folder and added to your PCB again and again! Additionally, you can toggle parts in-and-out of your board layout to make minor adjustments. All of this sounds good but can leave you chewing your fingernails if you have to interpolate the width of a surface mounted pad based on the "range" of widths offered on some datasheets. In this case I would order my components and have them at my side when using the FP Wizard. After generating the footprint I would import them into a Gerber viewer and print them out to scale with my laser printer. I could then physically lay the component on the printout to check for proper alignment. The Gerber viewer I use is a trial version of Viewmate (9.4.73) offered by PentaLogix. This program has the capability to print your entire board to scale.
    I know there are many different upgrades and add-ons available for FreePCB offered by the vibrant community of users at FreePCB.com and I know that many have said that schematics from TinyCAD (http://tinycad.sourceforge.net/) can be imported but, I myself have never done so. When I begin a schematic I usually print out the pin-outs from the datasheet of the various components I plan to use. I then cut out the layout with a scissors and paste them to a large piece of drafting paper, penciling in the connections between pins. At this point I go to my local print shop and have a copy made. From there I lay all my traces by hand in FreePCB!
    One final note: If you are a novice you may want to choose a local board house (like Advanced Circuits) that can help you to configure the software to generate the CAM files properly. The nomenclature can be daunting and most board houses will not correct your mistakes. However, the "free call back" service offered by AC circuits is priceless for a novice!!

    Marzipan: FreePCB does not include a schematics editor. You have to enter your netlist by hand!
    But would suggest that newbies to PCB design read the getting started doc, it has a super introduction to the PCB designing process, something often overlooked by manuals (which assume you have some idea of what you're doing).

    What do you, other users, use for schematic entry ?
    How is the autorouter-package ?

    Contributions by: johnrk, Marzipan ....

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

    Last Edited: Thu. Mar 5, 2009 - 03:05 PM
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    Plons
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    Posted by Plons: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 07:31 PM
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    Bartels AutoEngineer

    URL: http://http://www.bartels.de/bae/bae_en.htm ; Bartels AutoEngineer® (BAE for short from now on)

    The free BAE Schematic Editor generates a netlist that can be used in BAE and third party layout systems, simulation tools and FGPA design systems.
    The BAE Light version for PCB-design costs €159 plus VAT and delivery. (For details pls. see the site of BAE)

    There's a completely free version that only enables the schematic capture (no layout), with all its
    features (including hierarchical design). Using just a different license key, this version also
    serves as the demo version which has all features but cannot create any external file (like Gerber, PDF, ...).

    OS: Windows, Linux and various X11/Unix systems. (FreeBSD users: works well with the Linuxulator)

    Description:

    Is a professional, complete CAE-package. Starts with BAE Light, the entry level system for double-sided PCBs up to euro format size (160 × 100 mm). The Bartels Autorouter as well as all other BAE Professional features and User Language are included in this price.
    There is a growth-path to heavier versions of BAE.

    Usernotes:

    dl8dtl: Things I love with BAE:
    * well-thought structure of the layout parts, hierarchically structured; seems cumbersome at first but eventually turns out to be really flexible
    * hierarchical schematics, schematics can consist of an infinite number of sheets
    * well-thought schematics parts, good optical feedback about whether a connection to a part has been made or not (back in my Eagle days, I've been trapped by unconnected parts that looked as if they were connected several times)
    * the size of the routing grid does not affect the performance, gridless routing is possible -- with today's multiple different part grid sizes (mil-based for traditional parts, 0.8/0.65/0.5mm for modern SMDs) this is really important
    * a decent autorouter; I don't route the digital parts of my layouts manually anymore (only the analog parts); not only that the autorouter does the job pretty fast, it's also mentally much easier to re-arrange things later on, and just have the autorouter re-layout it again; might not look as aesthetically pleasant as a manual routing but it works pretty well
    * certain things look complicated at first but turn out to be really useful over time; e.g. rather than touching a layout item with the mouse, and dragging it, you first select what kind of item you are going to handle; that way, you can clearly distinguish between moving a via, a complete part, an edge of a trace, a segment of copper, or parts of copper or documentation areas
    * library elements that are used are always copied into the current project; the back-reference to the library is maintained (so you could e.g. update it in case you've really got a more recent version of the library) but you can always modify the project's copy of the element without affecting anything else but the current project; in the end, this model allows each project to also serve as a library for other projects so if you designed a certain schematics and layout part just in one project, you can later easily re-use it elsewhere
    * much of the application is written in a (compiled, C-like) user language and can thus be modified by the user once you grasped the language (which takes years, admitted -- but it also allows the supporter to just send you an updated ULC implementing your wish)
    * very good support even for the low-cost version (BAE Light)
    What I don't like:
    * the menues look chaotic at first, "historically grown"; they can be user-customized though
    * the autorouter is a separate application rather than fully integrated into the layout editor, so you have to flip back and forth between both
    * the color handling is quite old-stylish (16 colors which can be RGB-tuned, but you don't have more than those) but then again, the drawing speed resulting out of that is pretty good

    Attachment: Detail of an example layout: ATmega1280 attached to 2 x 2 MiB of SRAM, all connections except supply have been made by the autorouter. When watching carefully, one can notice the autorouter eventually pin-swapped pins 5 and 44 between the two SRAM ICs; it had been allowed to swap arbitrary data and address pins, respectively (because that makes no difference to the operation of an SRAM).

    Contributions by: dl8dtl, ....

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon Detail of an example layout from the autorouter. (Image exported with Gerbv based on the Gerber layout data. Gerbv is part of gEDA.)
    Package icon Various AVR symbols and loglib entries. See avr.def for comments. The AVR names used are pretty ancient, but as AVRs are in general mostly upwards compatible, they could still be used. For example, the at90s4434 matches everything up to an ATmega1284P.

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

    Last Edited: Tue. Jan 20, 2009 - 12:19 PM
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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 08:19 PM
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    Pulsonix

    URL: http://www.pulsonix.com

    Required OS: Windows

    Description:

    It's a very easy to use full professional package with an excellent (optional) autorouter.
    Pricing starts at $1750 for a basic 1000 pin version. That might seem expensive, compared to other products like Eagle, but given that designs can be completed in a fraction of the time they take with Eagle, it is actually very good value. Pulsonix actually competes with mid-range packages like PADS, OrCAD and Altium Designer, and is much cheaper than them.

    Pulsonix combines schematic entry and PCB layout in the one program. It conforms fully to Windows standards and was developed using OOP techniques from the outset, making it easy to add new features and fix problems, without introducing additional bugs.

    Usernotes:

    leon_heller:
    Schematic entry is very intuitive - just select the parts needed from the libraries (a preview of the schematic symbol and PCB footprint is provided), place the parts, and connect them. Unlike Eagle, the pins don't have to be on the current grid to be properly connected; the connection 'jumps' to the nearest pin, if necessary. There is a very useful electrical rules check, which identifies any anomalies, like unconnected pins, unfinished connections, and so on. Components that need to be close together can be 'grouped', and the groups are carried forward to the PCB. The most commonly used operations are available via the right mouse button, or via single-key commands which are user-definable.

    When the schematic is finished Translate to PCB converts it to a PCB. The user can select whether the parts are to go into a component bin, or are placed directly onto the PCB (a PCB profile can be selected if required). If they are in the bin, an autoplacement facility is available, I don't find it very useful. A nice feature is 'Cross Probe' which switches between the PCB and schematic, with selected parts highlighted in both. 'Force-vectors' are provided when moving parts, indicating the optimum position for minimising the connection length.
    Manual routing is very straightforward, with lots of options which make it fast and easy - like on-line DRC, and an indication when the track is on the pad to which it needs to be connected. Double-clicking can be set so as to terminate the track, or end on a via. Off-grid routing works very well, and tracks always connect exactly to the pad centre. A basic autorouter is provided and the Electra autorouter is available as an option. It's fully integrated, and does an excellent job. The PCB can be synchronised with the schematic, and any problems arising from, say, updating a part from the library in the schematic without updating it in the PCB can be identified and fixed. Very comprehensive design rule checks are available, including some of the more esoteric ones that can affect PCB manufacture, like drill backoff and mirrored text.

    Part creation is straightforward, with pin- and gate-swapping. Nets can be assigned to pins in the part editor, and unconnected pins are
    allowed, avoiding clutter on a schematic by not showing the power connections. Net types can be defined for each pin, including no-connects, making it very easy to avoid silly mistakes in the design.
    Pin names and numbers can be copied from data sheets and pasted directly into the part editor, saving a lot of typing. FPGAs have special
    requirements and are supported. Excellent reporting facilities are provided, and user scripts can be defined for custom reports, like a particular BOM format.

    Wizards are provided for footprint and schematic symbol creation for virtually every type of part, including BGAs. Pads of any shape can be created manually, if required.

    Schematic and PCB designs, and part libraries, may be imported from most other popular packages, including Eagle.

    A lower-cost package more suitable for hobbyists and students is Easy-PC:

    http://www.numberone.com

    I used it for over 20 years. A special version of Easy-PC is available free from Advanced Circuits:

    http://www.4pcb.com/

    They distribute Pulsonix in the USA.

    Contributions by: leon_heller, ....

    Leon Heller G1HSM

    Last Edited: Tue. Jan 20, 2009 - 03:05 PM
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    Plons
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    Posted by Plons: Tue. Jan 20, 2009 - 01:06 PM
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    SprintLayout

    URL: http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/sprint-layout.html ; € 39.90
    On the homepage a nice example is shown, but I attached one of my designs with our AVRfreaks logo, imported as scanned copy.
    Demo versions can be downloaded from http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/demoversionen.html
    These versions have some restrictions, but nevertheless you can test the software and get a good impression of their functionality.
    All demos are easy to install and uninstall.

    OS: Windows

    Description:

    With Sprint-Layout you can design your PCB’s quick and easy. There is no unnecessary “ballast” which makes it difficult to keep the overview or which makes the usage almost impossible. Because of the logical and understandable strucure of Sprint-Layout the usage is very easy to learn. So finally, you can concentrate to the essential thing: Designing and optimizing your PCB-layouts.
    Sprint-Layout offers all needed functions to design your own layouts. Of course, there is an extensive library with all common components included.

    With the free viewer-software for Sprint-Layout it is possible for everybody to view or print your layouts.

    Usernotes:

    Plons: I see this program as a very advanced drawing program. And advanced with PCB-design in mind.
    The viewer-software is much more than a viewer: it allows you to calibrate your printer, and printout the PCB-design for home-manufacturing the PCB.
    SprintLayout itself has Gerber and Excellon support, so also suitable for professional manufacturing.
    I chose this program because it's so simple to use ( I am fond of simple things ;) ), and I also use it for timng-diagrams etc.
    It allows you to import a scanned copy: very usefull ! I copied f.i. a recommended pcb-design for a SMPS with a MC34063, from the datasheet, imported it and re-routed the who;e as if it were a transparant :)

    What I don't like about it: Abacom has also a Schematic Editor, sPlan, in their productline http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/splan.html . But there is no link between the Schematic and the Layout-program ! And there are no plans to do it ..... such a pitty :(
    The autorouter is not very usefull.

    Usefull links: http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Tools/Tools_page.html You can find there a SprintLayout symbol library that I created for my own convenience, but feel free to use it (edit it, improve it, etc.)

    Contributions by: Plons, ....

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon SprintLayoutSc_copy.GIF

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

    Last Edited: Wed. Jan 21, 2009 - 04:25 PM
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    JohnWalton
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    Location: Stockholm Sweden
    Posted by JohnWalton: Mon. Jan 26, 2009 - 07:35 AM
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    gEDA

    Url: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial

    OS: pc linux/mac OS ; Open source so could possibly be installed on other systems from source code.
    If you are a Linux user, these packages are probably available directly from your distribution's installer. With Ubuntu (Ibex) for example, just activate the Multiverse and then "Add/Remove" or use Synaptic.

    Description:
    gEDA is a collection of open source electronic design tools. They may be installed individually but by installing gEDA you get the lot.

    The ones most relevant to this discussion are:
    * gschem schematic capture
    * gsch2pcb transferes information from gschem to pcb
    * pcb for layout
    * gerbv a gerber viewer. Look at layouts

    Symbol repository (includes some avr) here:
    http://www.gedasymbols.org/

    Usernotes:

    JohnWalton: Can produce other file types like ps and png. Attached is one I am working on now

    blackthorne: PCB is one of the most mature packages, being that it was started in 1990 on an Atari, and best free pcb tools out there. The application is feature rich, very easy to learn, has no limitations like Eagle, and blows doors over all the other packages listed here IMHO.
    Most importantly, PCB does include an auto-router!
    PCB, used in conjunction with gEDA schematic editor, is a great combination: easy to use, have huge libraries, large world-wide on-line communities, work cross-platform, and have professional industry support. Many Aerospace companies use the gEDA suite for example. Best of all, gEDA and PCB are open source and free to use. In addition, I think gEDA and PCB are even easier than Eagle to use as well.
    Here are some other great resources that users considering gEDA or PCB might be interested in:
    * gEDA example tutorial: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gschem_warmup : a simple walk-through of how to use the tools.
    * gedasymbols.org: http://www.gedasymbols.org/ : community submitted symbols and footprints.
    * gEDA Tool Suite on-line documentation: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:documentation

    Usefull links: PCB-homepage: http://pcb.sourceforge.net/index.html
    Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=73743
    gEDA homepage: http://www.geda.seul.org
    gEDA Wiki: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/

    Contributions by: JohnWalton, blackthorne, ....

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon Right click, choose "view picture" to see it in size 1024 x 768

    If all else fails, read the instructions.

    Last Edited: Mon. Jan 26, 2009 - 04:57 PM
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    gr82bdad
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    Location: Lenexa, KS
    Posted by gr82bdad: Mon. Jan 26, 2009 - 08:01 AM
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    DipTrace

    URL: http://www.diptrace.com/index.php
    Freeware to Professional packages available plus affordable non-profit license.

    Pricing: http://www.diptrace.com/order.php

    Download: http://www.diptrace.com/download.php

    Screenshots: http://www.diptrace.com/screenshots.php

    Compatible with Windows NT/2000/XP/Vista, Linux(Wine)

    User comments:

    gr82bdad: I use DIP Trace. I had been using PADS at my job and was let go. When I started consulting, I had to have something I could afford.

    I looked at a few and found DIP Trace had all the features I used in PADS for far less $$$. The non-profit license is 4 signal layers, unlimited plane layers, and 1000 pins is $125. Commercial license of same is $345. It has an upgrade path so it can grow as your projects do.

    You can get a 2 signal layer package that can do 4 layer boards as long as two layers are planes only.

    It included a large selection of AVR library parts - only lacking the very new stuff. over 50,000 library parts included.

    It does have an auto router and auto placement tool, but I can't comment on how that works since I haven't used it yet. Like any auto router, before you press route, you have to learn how to set the rules.

    It output really great GERBER files and I had boards made at Myro PCB that worked just great.

    DipTrace allows for very nice Bill of Material output. You can define your own fields and even assign a link to the data sheet on the internet. Right click on the part and select the datasheet from the popup and your browser opens with the data sheet.

    It has the capability to panelize and import/export GERBER, DXF, net lists of all sorts and other package formats including pick and place files.

    You can change the schematic and update to the PCB as well change the PCB and update the schematic. The verification features allow you to check the board to the schematic and to design rules to make sure there are no errors before sending out your CAM files.

    It is lacking in the connector libraries. But, with so many options, it's no wonder. If you use D-Subs, and 0.1" pin headers a lot, you're covered.

    Libraries are easy to make and manage as well. If you don't have the time, you can ask Dip Trace to make a library part for a very reasonable fee.

    The included libraries are extensive and easy to search - if you know the part number or series. Searching for a SMT 6 volt TVS is difficult unless you know the part number.

    There is a very active Yahoo group dedicated to answering questions and requesting new features. The latest release was February 2009. So they are actively improving the product.

    official AVR Consultant
    www.veruslogic.com

    Last Edited: Thu. Mar 19, 2009 - 04:13 AM
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    SlammerA
    SlammerA's picture
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    Posted by SlammerA: Mon. Jan 26, 2009 - 10:50 AM
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    KiCAD

    More : http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/About_KiCad Nice screenshots can be found here as well !
    Wiki : http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Kicad

    Required OS: Windows and Linux packages

    Description: Kicad includes
    - Schematic Editor
    - Schematic Library Editor
    - PCB Editor
    - PCB Modules Editor
    - Gerber Viewer
    - 3D PCB Viewer
    - Supports import from PADS format

    Wiki has a nice comparison table Eagle vs Kicad. There is also a utility for converting Eagle's libraries to Kicad.

    Usernotes:

    SlammerA: gEDA and PCB are more mature than Kicad but I think that Kicad is much easier.
    I have completed 3 projects with Kicad and I am very pleased with the results.

    Strong Points:
    - Nice GUI
    - Easy of use
    - True Cross Platform (Windows/Linux)
    - High quality prints
    - Automatic Link between Schematic<>PCB
    - Easy installation (only copy files)
    - Ready-Made binaries for Windows

    Weak Points:
    - Limited official Libraries (huge collection from users)
    - Too Basic native Autorouter, but can call directly the www.freerouting.net
    - No pin swap

    Contributions by: SlammerA, ....

    Last Edited: Mon. Jan 26, 2009 - 01:38 PM
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    Guillem Planisi
    Guillem Planisi's picture
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    Posted by Guillem Planisi: Tue. Feb 24, 2009 - 07:33 PM
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    Altium Designer
    aka Protel and DXP

    Required OS: Windows XP and a powerful computer as a minimum.

    Description:

    Commercial electronics and embedded design package. Really powerful that includes:
    Schematic capture and library editor.
    PCB design and PCB library editor.
    Gerber editors.
    Autorouter.
    VHDL and Verilog (and probably more) hardware compilers.
    C to Hardware compiler.
    C compiler for different cores (ARM, Microblaze, Nios, etc).
    Library generator that imports data from your company IC database.
    Many more features.
    A nice price... :twisted:

    Usernotes:

    Guillem Planisi: I have used this package mostly for schematic capture and PCB design. I find it quite easy and productive for manual routing, with powerful rules editor and control that help too much when placing tracks. Easy integration of schematic and PCB editor, as well as libraries editors.

    Libraries usually lack a lot of components. In fact, I had found that previous versions of certain libraries contained IC's and connectors that had dissapeared in the new versions.

    For multilayer design it is also really easy, and allow for many PCB stackup configurations.

    Autorouter may be a real Autodisaster if no properly configurated. In fact, I never get a decent result from it, although I had to route manually many times due 'legal restrictions' and EMI issues.

    For all those issues related with clearances for mains and high voltages, currents, and so on, it's rule editor is really helpful, limiting the manual routing when tracks reach the limits imposed.

    The schematic hierarchy system allow to develop really huge schematics and boards, that can be partially or totally embedded into an FPGA (it also compiles from schematic to HW), and then download to the FPGA prototyping board NanoBoard, developed by Altium manufacturer.

    For regular users, hobbists and little companies, it may be totally overkill. I found that I use probably <20% of all features it has, although my employeer only paid for schematic, PCB and libraries. WinAVR, AVRStudio, and FPGA free software is more than enough, and can replace this other licences.

    bluegoo:
    for those that have not seen the new Altium pricing model..it may interest you.. I pretty much ignored their upgrade requests over the years since Protel99 as I did not see any value in their upgrades but their recent special for a perpetual license for $2k changed my mind and a few hours talking to a serious user of the recent versions of their software...
    http://www.edn.com/blog/1690000169/post/1810043581.html?nid=2431&rid=8250057

    Contributions by: Guillem Planisi, bluegoo, ....

    Guillem.
    "Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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    Plons
    Plons's picture
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    Posted by Plons: Thu. Mar 12, 2009 - 01:28 PM
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    Tidied up on August 27, 2009 23:08hr, Amsterdam time

    Ok guys, this thread is getting into shape ;)

    There are still some open ends, and other work to do.

    If you post your contribution, please do it in the format used so far. That saves me a lot of time.
    I will take care of the make-up .... :)

    Nard

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

    Last Edited: Thu. Aug 27, 2009 - 09:09 PM
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    oddbudman
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    Posted by oddbudman: Sat. Apr 18, 2009 - 05:42 AM
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    LTspice IV

    Required OS: Windows XP also works well in Linux
    using Wine.

    Software is free to use.

    Quote:

    LTspice IV is a high performance Spice III simulator, schematic capture and waveform viewer with enhancements and models for easing the simulation of switching regulators. Our enhancements to Spice have made simulating switching regulators extremely fast compared to normal Spice simulators, allowing the user to view waveforms for most switching regulators in just a few minutes. Included in this download are Spice, Macro Models for 80% of Linear Technology's switching regulators, over 200 op amp models, as well as resistors, transistors and MOSFET models.

    http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/

    oddbudman's comments
    I use this software for simulation. It's quick, free and comes with a handful of common transistors, optos and fets and other general components in addition to most of Linear Technology's range of ICs.

    Best features for me is how easy it is to quickly test ideas. It's easy to dump spice models for transistors and parts into the schematic and get results really quickly.

    Its also lightweight and good for quickly drawing schematics.

    oddbudman

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    mtthw_emerson
    mtthw_emerson's picture
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    Posted by mtthw_emerson: Thu. Aug 27, 2009 - 12:21 PM
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    Hi Guys,

    Another freeware which deserves a mention is TARGET 3001! - a full version including schematic capture,auto-router ,auto-placer is available to download free of charge :
    http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/ser...

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    Jassper
    Jassper's picture
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    Posted by Jassper: Thu. Aug 27, 2009 - 06:54 PM
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    Pad2Pad

    www.pad2pad.com

    Free software for PCB's

    ● Instant pricing
    ● Auto routing (as well as Manual)
    ● Net list import
    ● Auto error check
    ● Online ordering
    ● 1, 2 or 4 layers
    ● Silk screen
    ● Solder mask
    ● Any board shape
    ● Separate boards or panels
    ● Multiple board thicknesses
    ● 1, 1.5, 2 oz copper
    ● Gold plating
    ● Gerber files also accepted
    ● USA & international shipping
    ● NEW - Full Assembly Services

    Pros:
    ● Can create your own footprint lib
    ● Easy to use
    ● Can create multiple grid presets for switching between grids.
    ● Good pricing for production
    ● reduced pricing for small run proto boards

    Cons:
    ● Does not include a Schematic program
    ● Small parts library

    For Schematics I use Eagle, already described above.

    Don't Let the smoke out!

    Last Edited: Fri. Aug 28, 2009 - 12:57 AM
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    Plons
    Plons's picture
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    Posted by Plons: Thu. Aug 27, 2009 - 09:13 PM
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    Reminder:

    Quote:
    If you post your contribution, please do it in the format used so far. That saves me a lot of time.
    I will take care of the make-up .... :)

    Nard

    mtthw_emerson, please be so kind to edit your post, and use the format like in the other posts.

    Jassper, what would you suggest for schematic entry ?
    And the same request as for mtthw_emerson

    Most obliged

    Nard ... uh ... Plons, moderator

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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    gdhospers
    gdhospers's picture
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    Posted by gdhospers: Thu. Mar 11, 2010 - 02:31 PM
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    mtthw_emerson wrote:
    Hi Guys,

    Another freeware which deserves a mention is TARGET 3001! - a full version including schematic capture,auto-router ,auto-placer is available to download free of charge :
    http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/ser...

    Interesting to see a board manufacturer + free pcb software in Euro country.

    Please give us a review. Seems that "everything" is in it.
    Is it really so easy to use? (Some people said beginners learn to use it much quicker then Eagle)

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Thu. Mar 11, 2010 - 03:37 PM
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    Beginners will find anything easier to use than Eagle! :D

    The version of Target available from PCB Pool can only be used with their PCB service, of course.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweis, but plenty of Corona beer)
    Posted by js: Thu. Mar 11, 2010 - 09:27 PM
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    I guess I'll need to add RIMU. They have both a schematic (US$149.00) and a PCB layout program (US$72.50). These prices re for the unlimited versions, cheaper 500 pin limit versions are available and also demo versions. (100 pins)

    www.hutson.co.nz

    If you have used the old Protel Easytrax or Autotrax then these program will import the files easily. Gerbers are a breeze unlike the old Protel monsters.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    Plons
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    Posted by Plons: Sun. Mar 14, 2010 - 09:09 PM
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    Just fell over this one ... seems to be free (i hope)

    Free PCB Calculator
    http://www.saturnpcb.com/pcb_too...

    I am not nearly advanced enough to use such a beast , but there might be someone here , that can use it

    /Bingo

    < copy from other thread - Plons >

    A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

    Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Wed. Jul 7, 2010 - 08:32 PM
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    RS has just released DesignSpark PCB:

    http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=pcb&cm_sp=Homepage-uk-_-Online-Quotes-_-Primary-Banner

    It's free!

    It's actually a stripped-down version of a well-known PCB package that I used for over 15 years, from shortly after it was launched.

    RS has obviously done it to annoy their main competitor, Farnell, who took over CADsoft (Eagle) a few months ago.

    Here is a simple schematic I did with it:

    [url]http://www.leonheller.com/Design...(Schematic).pdf[/url]

    This silly forum software doesn't like the parentheses!

    I'll create a formal description for Plons in a day or two.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Wed. Jul 28, 2010 - 07:10 PM
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    So which is better Leon, Easy-PC or DesignSpark PCB? Obviously DesignSpark is a whole lot cheaper, but I am willing to pay for Easy-PC.

    Has anyone else tried either of these programs? It's not that I don't trust Leon, but if it turns out they only do PICs, then I guess I'll have to not only switch PCB design programs, but also switch microcontrollers. ;)

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Wed. Jul 28, 2010 - 07:37 PM
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    Easy-PC is much better, DesignSpark is missing a lot of the features in Easy-PC.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    Jassper
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    Posted by Jassper: Wed. Jul 28, 2010 - 08:04 PM
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    I know this don't belong here so feel free to move it but for custom panel designs,

    http://www.frontpanelexpress.com...

    Don't Let the smoke out!

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    steve17
    steve17's picture
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    Posted by steve17: Sat. Jul 31, 2010 - 08:31 PM
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    I found that DesignSpark, PCB Artist, and Easy-PC are the same program. I've never gotten very far with any of them so I can't confirm that Easy-PC has more features.

    Finding a resistor from the library is ridiculously difficult. There are about 10 million through holes there. Every value ever made, in every wattage. It seems to me 1 resistor of each physical size, shape and layer would suffice. It's easy to set the value on the schematic.

    But I was looking for SMD 0603 resistors. I once found some so labeled and put them on the schematic. Unfortunately when the PCB was made, they were on the bottom layer. I can occasionally find a generic resistor called something like R-SM, but I have to put it on the PCB to find if it is top or bottom layer and what the size is. So far they have been 0805 and I want 0603.

    I found one transistor I wanted in the library. It turned out to be bottom layer too. The only success I had was a transistor I made from a similar one in the library. It was more difficult to make the custom library to put it in than it should be. In fact PCB design programs should come with a custom library, empty of course.

    I'm inclined to think these programs are a sick joke. Speaking of that, Eagle seems to have been written before mice were invented and all parts on a board were TTL logic gates. If you don't have a mouse, and all the parts on your boards are TTL logic, I heartily recommend it.

    Most of the rest of the programs I looked at didn't have a schematic editor so I wasn't interested.

    The bottom line is ExpressPCB stands head and shoulders above the rest. Mainly because of the ease of making components and also the ease of finding components in the library. This is the program I've always used. I was hoping to find something else as good, that would error check the board against the schematic.

    I'll check again in 10 years, maybe something else will turn up. There may be good programs in the thousand dollar range, but that's a bit too much for an amateur.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Sat. Jul 31, 2010 - 09:36 PM
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    They aren't the same program. DesignSpark and PCB Artist are based on Easy-PC, but have far fewer features.

    I used Easy-PC for about 20 years, and never had any problems with it. If you want to change a part from the top to the bottom you simply select it and type 'F'. If you don't like all those resistors in the library, just create a single generic resistor with the various footprints you want and use that, with an attribute for the value.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    lagger
    lagger's picture
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    Posted by lagger: Sat. Jul 31, 2010 - 10:14 PM
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    CADint PCB

    URL: www.cadint.se
    OS: Windows, but works in Wine
    Version reviewed: 4.0.4.4

    Price: 5000 SEK to 40000 SEK, depending on the number of layers (2,4,6,10,unlimited). 5000 SEK is roughly 530 EUR at the time of writing.

    There's also a freeware version, and a free version for educational use.

    Description:
    This software was written with productivity in mind, which means there are shortcuts for doing pretty much everything. This also means that not knowing all the shortcuts, it can be quite confusing to work with. In other words, the learning curve is steep but rewarding.

    The schematic editor is hierarchical, making it pretty easy to make huge schematic layouts.

    They layout editor has an interactive routing tool, which features push and shove, differential pair and bus routing.

    It does not have an autorouter, but can import/export to autorouting apps.

    The component library is split into 4 parts, schematic symbols, pcb symbols, part references and part numbers. If you like, you can make a single part reference that represents every resistor in every package you want. Or you can make a part number for each resistor type you are using, giving you a lot of flexibility.

    Designing a pcb symbol is very fast, as you usually draw a single copper pad, use the copy/repeat tool giving offsets and repeat count. Then finally use the padstack tool, to generate solder and paste masks. If you messed up the pin ordering, you can use the query tool to renumber the pins after how they are arranged.

    The DRC tool is very extensive for both schematic and layout.

    For its price, it's a very good PCB design tool.

    Last Edited: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 02:13 PM
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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 12:36 PM
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    lagger wrote:

    The component library is split into 4 parts, schematic symbols, pcb symbols, part numbers.
    That reminds me of my favorite joke.
    Quote:
    There are 3 types of people. Those who can count and those who can't.:)

    Seriously, that seems like a good idea. That's the way ExpressPCB does it. It makes things simple. I will investigate CADint.

    Well, ExpressPCB has 2 component libraries. Symbols for the Schematic, and footprints for the PCB. You link the two by using the same part ID for both. (i.e. R3, etc.)

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 01:27 PM
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    leon_heller wrote:

    If you want to change a part from the top to the bottom you simply select it and type 'F'.
    Thanks. Things like this are annoying to say the least. If I do the natural thing of right clicking on a pad it will tell me if its top or bottom but won't let me change it. This is the obvious place to let the user change it with a mouse click.
    Quote:
    If you don't like all those resistors in the library, just create a single generic resistor with the various footprints you want and use that, with an attribute for the value.
    Yes, after I cooled down and regained my ability to think, I realized I could do this. When a program insults me at every turn, I get angry and can't think. I just want to break things and kill people. :)

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 01:28 PM
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    Easy-PC and Pulsonix parts also have three libraries - schematic symbols, PCB footprints, and the parts library which links the two first two together for a particular part. Any number of libraries can be created,

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    lagger
    lagger's picture
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    Posted by lagger: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 02:14 PM
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    steve17 wrote:
    lagger wrote:

    The component library is split into 4 parts, schematic symbols, pcb symbols, part numbers.
    That reminds me of my favorite joke.
    Quote:
    There are 3 types of people. Those who can count and those who can't.:)

    Seriously, that seems like a good idea. That's the way ExpressPCB does it. It makes things simple. I will investigate CADint.

    Well, ExpressPCB has 2 component libraries. Symbols for the Schematic, and footprints for the PCB. You link the two by using the same part ID for both. (i.e. R3, etc.)


    Oops. :)

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 09:25 PM
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    leon_heller wrote:
    They aren't the same program. DesignSpark and PCB Artist are based on Easy-PC, but have far fewer features.
    I have the demo version of Easy-PC. I can't save anything, the save entry in the file menu is grayed out. I remember reading about this in the demo guide. Also the "new" entry is missing from the file menu, so I guess I can't create a schematic or PCB. Other than that, I haven't yet seen any differences between these 3 programs. In any event it seems I need to do most of my testing with one of the other programs because the demo Easy-PC is crippled. I guess I can play around with the examples, but I can't save them.
    Quote:
    If you want to change a part from the top to the bottom you simply select it and type 'F'.
    When the part is on the bottom I see the pads. When I hit the magic F key it moves to the top where I see the silk screen outline and labels but I don't see the pads.

    So far the only pads I see other than the SMD on the bottom are the through hole pads.

    It seems most of these programs were written before SMD was invented. The methods and libraries most suitable for through hole aren't suitable for SMD.
    I understand I can get around much of this by creating my own library, but it's been frustrating with very little help from the help menu.

    Last Edited: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 09:43 PM
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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 09:37 PM
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    There are major differences between Easy-PC and the other programs - check the features on the Number One Systems web site. There wouldn't be much point in charging for Easy-PC, otherwise.

    I didn't have a problem flipping an 0805 capacitor from the top to the bottom in DesignSpark, the pads are visible in both cases.

    I've used Easy-PC in the past to create surface-mount designs with parts on both sides without any problems. It has a good selection of parts in both SM and through-hole packages, as do the other programs.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 10:24 PM
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    Well it could be operator error. I used DesignSpark. These parts were selected for the schematic and then the PCB was created. All ended up on the bottom. The only exception was the through hole transistor I created. The ones on the bottom are 3 SMD 0603 and the SMD SOT-23.

    I then used the magic F key on the parts on the bottom. Here are the before and after pictures.

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon as_created_on bottom.png
    Image icon flipped.png
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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 10:26 PM
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    Nothing like what I get, the pads are red when the part is flipped. I think your PCB is single-sided.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Sun. Aug 1, 2010 - 11:42 PM
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    Just my luck. A single sided board with only a bottom layer. :) Is there any way to display the board properties?

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Mon. Aug 2, 2010 - 12:27 AM
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    I think you are correct. I put a copper shape on the board and had a choice of layers. I had 5 choices but top copper wasn't one of them. Well we've learned one thing. This program isn't foolproof. :)

    Maybe I inadvertently downloaded the Australian version.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Mon. Aug 2, 2010 - 01:20 AM
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    Just add the second layer. You must have set it up wrong.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    tlucas
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    Posted by tlucas: Mon. Aug 2, 2010 - 01:21 AM
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    steve17 wrote:
    Maybe I inadvertently downloaded the Australian version.
    :lol: :lol:

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Tue. Aug 3, 2010 - 11:00 PM
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    I'm beginning to like DesignSpark, etc.. I put some schematic symbols and footprints in custom libraries so I could find the damn things in the future. Then I made some components from them. So far I just copied existing things from the supplied libraries. I suppose I will be able to modify existing symbols and footprints when the need arises.

    I never had auto-routing, and I don't need it, but now I have it so I tried it out. Good for a laugh. I'm especially impressed how the program connected Q1 and R2. :)

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon auto_route.png
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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Wed. Aug 4, 2010 - 03:40 AM
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    As it's a double-sided board it will try and balance the copper on both sides. If you set it up properly and take some care over placement it might do a better job.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 06:36 PM
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    I'm not so happy now. I was hoping DesignSpark, PCB Artist, and Easy-PC could use each others libraries. I can't get PCB Artist to use the custom libraries I made with DesignSpark. Now I have to decide which program to use.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 07:01 PM
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    They can't read each other's libraries. PCB Artist and DesignSpark were developed specifically for Advanced Circuits and RS, and they presumably didn't want the libraries to be interchangeable.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 10:52 PM
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    johnrk wrote:
    The Gerber viewer I use is a trial version of Viewmate (9.4.73) offered by PentaLogix. This program has the capability to print your entire board to scale.
    You had me scared for a minute. ExpressPCB can print out the board to scale and you don't have to know anything about Gerber. I use it for making templates for various purposes.

    But I'm thinking of switching to PCB Artist, or something similar. I quickly drew some parallel traces on the board using PCB Artist and printed it. The scale was perfect. It's so perfect I need a precise metal machinist's scale to appreciate it. It's considerably better than my plastic ruler and a bit better than my metal measuring tape.

    I use an HP D5160 inkjet.

    Edit: The quoted text was't mine (=Plons), but johnrk. Corrected.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 10:54 PM
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    I use an HP inkjet for my PCB artwork, it's *very* accurate.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 11:16 PM
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    HP printers are interesting. The inkjets are on the cartridges. Did you ever notice what it does to align the jets after you replace a cartridge?

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 11:22 PM
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    No, I just let it do its thing.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Thu. Aug 5, 2010 - 11:35 PM
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    Mine prints some lines in various colors and then it backs up the paper an inch or two. I guess it's looking at what it printed.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Fri. Aug 6, 2010 - 03:30 AM
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    Mine is a cheap one I bought about 5 years ago, it was under £60. I can do very nice PCBs with it, though, with tracks down to 8 mils. I've done 5 mils as a test.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    The_village_idiot
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    Posted by The_village_idiot: Sun. Aug 29, 2010 - 01:36 AM
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    Not sure if this really belongs here but here it goes:

    I've used FreePCB for a few different boards now and have really grown to like it. One thing that seems to get people is the lack or presence of a component library, while FreePCB does have a complete Ivex library that you can use, can you trust it? For certain things like 0805 sized SMD components you may have to rely on the library, but for other things I prefer to just make the footprint from the datasheet. The footprint wizard and editor make it really simple to create your own footprints, and then you know that it is either correct, or you know exactly who to blame (must be the datasheet is wrong :roll: ) You can work with both metric and imperial measurements, it will convert them for you and seems to do a decent job of it based on my last boards which had parts in both systems and seems to have worked.

    One thing I like is that you can either use drag and drop to position the components, or you can position them numerically. If you made your own footprints then you also know where the origin is for that positioning and rotation which is really important when using things like mezzanine connectors/risers where you need to be able to position them accurately so they line up with each other. (note jm4 and jm5 in attached image which is a 0.5mm spaced Hirose mezzanine both were numerically placed to mate with a second board).

    It can import netlists from a compatible schematic design software like TinyCad, or you can make them in a text editor, or you can go straight to dropping components on the "board" and define the pins with a right click. You can also just connect pin to pin and let it make a sequential net for those pins.

    The autorouter seems to work, don't have enough experience to comment on how well it works. If you are using a complex and tightly packed board, there may be some cleanup required in the form of shifting the position of some traces but overall it seems to work to a tolerable level.

    The Gerber export module is 274x and Excellon drills and also offers .png output for those people that want to toner transfer or photoresist their own boards. Ive sent the Gerbers to 4 or 5 different fabrication businesses and the only one that required any fooling around or renaming was Batch PCB.

    My only wish is that it would output DXF or DWG files so that I could bring them into a CAD program for making diagrams for documentation. I found a gerber viewer called GerbView that allows you to import the gerber files and generate a DXF (not free though).

    Attachment(s): 

    Image icon A recent project with surface mount components, most component footprints made in the footprint tools from datasheets.
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    ignoramus
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    Posted by ignoramus: Wed. Sep 8, 2010 - 12:16 AM
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    CADSTAR EXPRESS

    http://www.zuken.com/products/ca...

    Free Evaluation Software - Version 12.1 (Updated: September 2010)
    All the functionality of CADSTAR, limited to 300 pins & 50 components.

    20.000 FREE library of PARTS library (examples taken from the over 250.000 parts CADSTAR Online Library)

    http://www.zuken.com/products/ca...

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    assissin
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    Posted by assissin: Wed. Oct 13, 2010 - 12:40 PM
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    Diptrace:- Also available is the diptrace forum. Go to http://www.diptrace.com and register to enter the forum. I have placed large files in the shared component lib's including almost all of the C+K switch catalog (THP & SMD), Omron power & signal (including shielded RF types)but to name a few.

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    dav9482
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    Posted by dav9482: Fri. Dec 24, 2010 - 06:21 PM
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    do you have experience in Proteus?
    is it better than Eagle? in which sense?

    Proteus has the "auto-place" feature, which automatically places the components on the board (based on the distance of the connections between components).
    Is this auto-place useful in practice?

    Eagle does not have this feature (only a auto-placed by coping the position in the schematic).

    Regards,
    David

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    sfcircuits
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    Posted by sfcircuits: Thu. Dec 30, 2010 - 07:17 PM
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    We've used a few different programs:

    Orcad for schematic capture. (Orcad is made by Cadence)
    Pads for layout. (Pads is made by Mentor Graphics)

    and as a free option: DesignSpark

    Victor
    San Francisco Circuits

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    dksmall
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    Posted by dksmall: Thu. Dec 30, 2010 - 07:41 PM
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    Victor, how to you get Orcad to talk to Mentor?

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    bphillips
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    Posted by bphillips: Sat. Jan 8, 2011 - 06:51 PM
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    I haven't looked at this post in about 6 months. This reply is for steve17 in response to a post he made on July 28. He was asking if anyone else had used Easy-PC.

    I have been using it for a little over 3 years. I use the 2000 pin version. I have purchased 2 upgrades to get the features that were added with the upgrades.

    During the 3 years I have designed approximately 50 boards. They were all 2-layer and 4-layer boards with the exception of 2 single layer boards. I have encountered a few minor problems but Tech Support has always been quick to respond (M-F) with the solutions. The user forum is fairly active and you can find good tips there.

    I use the autorouter most of them time if the board has more than about 20 components on it. I place the components on the board based on the connections between them and on over 30 years of board design experience. My design experience goes back to the black tape and Bishop pad days. Basically what I am doing is giving the router the best chance at completing the connections.

    As for the autorouter, I purchased the Pro Router. The free one that comes with the program isn't very good. I actually purchased Pro Router when I was trying to design a complex board about 2 years ago. The board was a 5X5 inch, 4-layer board with over 300 components. I let the free router try to route it. After over 12 hours of running and not completing I shut it down. I downloaded the trial version of the Pro Router and installed it. It routed the board in less than 2 minutes. I was sold on it and placed my order.

    Now for the cons of the autorouter. I use it only to get the traces in place. I then do all clean up manually. The design that the autorouter produces is not pretty and is in no way suitable for manufacturing. It does a lot of stupid things. So plan on fixing the majority of the traces yourself. In the case of the 5X5 board above, I spent approximately 24 hours cleaning it up. But the autorouter probably saved 100 hours of putting the traces in by hand (assuming I could have pulled that off).

    To make a board you create the schematic first. You can make a board without a schematic but only do this for the most simple boards. The schematic has to have all the correct parts (meaning packages) in it. If the included libraries do not have the parts you will have to create them.

    The parts creation process is really simple, especially if you use the wizard. I haven't found any part that cannot be created. Someone mentioned that it could only create PIC parts but that is not true. I have a lot of AVR parts in my libraries that I created. To make a library part you create the schematic symbol first. Then you create the pcb pad symbol. Finally you link the two together to create the actual component that is used by the program.

    After you design the schematic you then design the board. You use the "Translate to PCB" tool which places all the components into a component bin similar to what Eagle does. You then drag the components out onto the board where you want them. Once the board is complete you then run an integrity check. This insures the schematic and board match. Next you run the connectivity check to make sure all the connections are correct. Finally your run the design rule check. This checks to make sure there are no manufacturing violations or shorted traces. You can setup all the design rules to match what you and your board house require. The rules include things like trace to trace, trace to pad, and trace to board edge spacings.

    After you complete all board checks you can then generate the gerber and drill files for manufacturing purposes. I have only had problems with one board house and the gerbers. The BatchPCB house(Sparkfun) rejects the design if you have copper pours and your minimum trace size is set to 8 mils. Increasing the minimum trace size to 10 mils will keep BatchPCB from rejecting the design. Of course this creates design rule violations in the Easy-PC DRC check if you are in fact using 8 mil or smaller traces. In this case, send an email to BatchPCB and they will manually pass the board.

    One thing I have learned is that if you make a design change, you need to make the change in the schematic. Then make the same changes on the PCB including updating the netlist names to match the schematic. You do not want to make the change on the schematic and forward the changes to the PCB. That can create a huge mess. After you make the changes and do a integrity check the progam warns you that you have made board changes that have to be back annotated to the schematic. Tell the program to delete all the back annotation changes. The integrity check can then be ran to insure everything is still in order.

    The learning curve for the program is not too bad. You can learn the basics fairly quickly. The more complex opertations take longer to master. I still find features occasionally that I didn't know existed. And I have learned a lot of ways to trick the program into doing what I want it to do when I am making changes to the original board/schematic.

    My overall feeling is that Easy-PC is a very professional program and worth every penny I paid for it. It is a little costly for the hobbyist but there are other free options for the hobby crowd. Even if you are a hobbyist and make a lot of boards it would probably be worth the cost of the program.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Sat. Jan 8, 2011 - 07:17 PM
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    RS's DesignSpark is based on EasyPC.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    sfcircuits
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    Posted by sfcircuits: Fri. Jan 21, 2011 - 12:41 AM
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    dksmall wrote:
    Victor, how to you get Orcad to talk to Mentor?

    Hi Dksmall,

    sorry for the 3 week delay in replying..

    I’m assuming you are referring to generating a valid netlist from Orcad in order to load into Mentor PADS.

    There are two ways for Orcad Capture to be compatible with Mentor, PADS. Mentor has a translator for Orcad to Dxdesigner or Plogic schematic software. The other way is to make a pads netlist directly from Orcad Capture. However, the netlist that is generated might need to have the first line (header) changed to be compatible with your current version of PADS.

    hope that helps!

    Victor
    San Francisco Circuits

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    dksmall
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    Posted by dksmall: Fri. Jan 21, 2011 - 02:07 AM
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    Our DE group was using the older version of Mentor, which didn't support an Orcad import. I believe they are in the process of upgrading to PADS, so I will have to pursue this option. Our test group uses Orcad and if we need to leyout a board, the Mentor guys have to start from scratch by drawing the schematic in Mentor before they can use Mentor to lay it out.

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    nleahcim
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    Posted by nleahcim: Wed. Feb 16, 2011 - 06:47 PM
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    My schematic capture/layout program of choice is Altium Designer. I changed jobs in November and at the new job I use OrCAD. I've given it about 3 months now - I figured it'd grow on me.

    It hasn't.

    It is truly awful in comparison. How is this junk the industry standard? I guess it is fairly cheap? Bleh. Buggy, clumsy, crashy, terrible.

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    gdhospers
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    Posted by gdhospers: Mon. Mar 28, 2011 - 08:51 PM
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    There is now Designspark V2.0, which has a 3D view of the assembled board and improved Eagle "compatibility".

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    bluegoo
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    Posted by bluegoo: Mon. Jun 6, 2011 - 09:57 PM
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    this week I needed to photoplot some old pcb files for a client so the products could be produced again..had to get out an old DOS 6.22 computer with P-CAD 5 on it. P-CAD 5 is a 1991 pcd cad program...spent $8k -$10k for it when originally purchased back in 88-93. It was made by Personal Cad Systems. Later it was sold to Accel, then Protel, and then Altium.
    I am still amazed how much CAD the programmers were able to produce in a DOS computer with 640k (and XMS mem). What really makes it amazing is so many of the programs today that require todays hardware still can not offer the productivity a user could accomplish in P-CAD.
    I think it makes a big difference when the programmer knows you only have a finite amount of memory to get the job done, thus the cmds are simple and productive. I am amazed how fast it runs in DOS vs the $8k Cad resource hogs shipped today like Altium which I also have.

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    Dynasmith
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    Posted by Dynasmith: Tue. Jun 14, 2011 - 12:55 PM
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    $ Text removed - JS $

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    hugoboss
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    Posted by hugoboss: Tue. Jun 14, 2011 - 02:13 PM
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    What a clever troll with bad business practices! Maybe I should send him my intellectual property, I am certain he will not steal it and resell!

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Tue. Jun 14, 2011 - 04:51 PM
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    I could send him my intellectual property. He would go broke trying to sell that. :)

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    hugoboss
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    Posted by hugoboss: Tue. Jun 14, 2011 - 05:01 PM
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    Altium's PCB editor really isnt such a hog, really, it's essentially PCAD ported to Windows. It was still called PCAD back in 2006. Nothing of it has changed in the last few years...

    And about productivity, I don't know man, I kind of like the streamlined design flow of Winter'09. The supplier search function in particular removes the additional step of sourcing components completely.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Tue. Jun 14, 2011 - 05:30 PM
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    I thought that PCAD was a completely different product. It was only discontinued a few months ago. Wasn't Protel the precursor of Altium?

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    hugoboss
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    Posted by hugoboss: Tue. Jun 14, 2011 - 10:36 PM
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    PCAD was being developped by Altium after they bought it from Accel, and they kept up with the development I assume until the last support contracts ended, which was in 2008 I believe. Protel and Altium Designer have always been a suite, and they incorporated PCAD into Altium 6 first I believe... Since then they have pretty much streamlined it in, and removed the name references.

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    zacharyb
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    Posted by zacharyb: Thu. Jun 16, 2011 - 01:01 AM
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    gdhospers wrote:
    There is now Designspark V2.0, which has a 3D view of the assembled board and improved Eagle "compatibility".

    I currently use Designspark v2.0 for my PCB Design tool of choice.. The 3D View of the assembled board is pretty awesome and comes in handy. 8)

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    bluegoo
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    Posted by bluegoo: Thu. Jun 16, 2011 - 04:57 AM
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    Not that it matters but my memory of the Altium Pcad heritage is a bit different...I bought PCAD4 then PCAD5 back in the late 80's and it was from Personal Cad Sytems. If my memory was correct it was about $14k. Accel ended up with it but somewhere in there IBM actually owned it for a very brief period and called the IBM division Altium. When Protel bought it from Accel they aquired the rights to the name Altium thru the purchase from Accel.
    At some point they renamed Protel to Altium. I think that was about the time they sold the junk bonds that grew the company. I remember the time/place/food/ and sales pitch of the origional Protel sales seminar when they tried to get PCAD users to dump PCAD and adopt Protel v1. At the time Protel was a 16 bit app. Later it became a 32 bit app and the lab paid about $1495 for the upgrade. Over time the lab acquired the Protell98, Protel99 upgrades as well.
    Considering we had over $14k invested in PCAD with service updates, etc..it was not hard to justify several seats of Protel for the lab as they sold them for about $1250 each at the time . I never really liked Protel too much... could layout pcb's faster with PCAD using dos. Of course those old pcb's were mostly thru hole and pcad was fast for that. As the shift to SMT was made PCAD on dos became a bit cumbersome due to the geometries.
    There are several computers in the lab with PCAD5 and several other pcb programs including Altium 9. This week I am transferring some old PCAD5 designs into Altium and the work on the PCAD5 part is much faster than the Altium part. At some point the lab will adopt something new but it definately will not be Altium anymore. ... well thats the memory dump and the bits are flipping as time goes by.

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Thu. Jun 16, 2011 - 08:06 AM
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    That confirms my recollection that PCAD has never had much in common with Altium. I don't know about Protel, but Altium has never been profitable; they made another large loss last year. I've never understood how they manage to keep trading. I tried it out of curiosity a few months ago and didn't like it much; I much prefer the Pulsonix software I've been using for years.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    rgbetanco
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    Posted by rgbetanco: Fri. Jul 22, 2011 - 09:44 AM
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    I have learned using Eagle using nothing more than youtube tutorials, the only tricky part I noticed is when creating a new part for the first time, it seems too many steps in the procedure, I also noticed that when adding parts to the schematic the search engine might be frustrating sometimes. Anyway, I will still give a high five to Eagle.

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    bigpilot
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    Posted by bigpilot: Thu. Jul 28, 2011 - 04:58 PM
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    For professionals Altium Designer is obviously the standard.

    As a hobbyist I use Eagle a lot, but I'm seriously thinking about switching to KiCad, which is an open-source Eagle clone.

    Building my dreams!

    Last Edited: Mon. Aug 1, 2011 - 10:59 AM
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    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Posted by js: Thu. Jul 28, 2011 - 08:21 PM
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    Quote:
    KiCad, which is an open-source Eagle clone.
    You mean it can open/work with Eagle files?? I had it installed a while ago but have since deleted it, it would be nice to be able to work with Eagle files WITHOUT actually having Eagle.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    markus_b
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    Posted by markus_b: Thu. Jul 28, 2011 - 09:16 PM
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    js wrote:
    Quote:
    KiCad, which is an open-source Eagle clone.
    You mean it can open/work with Eagle files?? I had it installed a while ago but have since deleted it, it would be nice to be able to work with Eagle files WITHOUT actually having Eagle.

    No Kicad is not an Eagle clone. It is a schematic and PCB design program as is Eagle and there are some scripts to convert files between the two.

    Markus

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    bigpilot
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    Posted by bigpilot: Fri. Jul 29, 2011 - 09:29 PM
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    KICAD is not an Eagle clone but it looks and works in a similar way. It also has comparable features.

    Building my dreams!

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    LDEVRIES
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    Posted by LDEVRIES: Sat. Sep 17, 2011 - 01:22 AM
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    At the recent Electronics expo in Melbourne RS had a stand demonstrating DesignSpark (as was Element 14 (Farnell).
    Anyway I grabbed a copy of DesignSpark to compare with Eagle.
    At the outlook, there are quite a few things I like about DesignSpark, but it does not feel intuitive at all as I make the transition from one to the other.
    I have successfully converted an existing Eagle project to DesignSpark without drama. I think it will catch on.
    I believe that DesignSpark V3 will be released before the end of the year with better Library support. At present the library support & AVR support is a little light on.
    A complete Eagle + SparkfunEagle conversion for DesignSpark has already been done and exists on the net already as well.

    Charles Darwin, Lord Kelvin & Murphy are always lurking about!
    Lee -.-
    Riddle me this...How did the serpent move around before the fall?

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    Peter.C
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    Posted by Peter.C: Sat. Nov 12, 2011 - 04:02 AM
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    It seems to be nice. I can say RayPCB could

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    microguy
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    Posted by microguy: Mon. Nov 21, 2011 - 05:26 PM
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    As a new user of PCB design tools I spent lots of time reading this entire thread. Wish I could say it made my initial selection of tools easier but it did not. Almost everyone seems to be used to a particular package and then are very disappointed when their old libraries will not import to something new. I understand that issue but as a new user I wanted to know the best package to start using.

    So I ended up starting a design using TinyCAD for the schematic and FreePCB (and all the third party add-on utilities) for the PC board design. After completing the simple board and not being happy with either package in terms of feature integration, flexibility, and an up-to-date user interface I decided to try the free package that seemed to have the most up-to-date releases and active support forums. So I downloaded DesignSpark 3.0 and re-did the schematic, footprints, and PCB in that new environment.

    Here's my assessment as a new user: While FreePCB must have been considered a solid design tool in its day, it is way far behind the implementation of DesignSpark 3.0. Without itemizing all the pluses--and there are many--anyone who is new to PCB design and looking for a solid tool for schematic capture and PCB design should give DesignSpark a try. Their integrated Library management and search works really well (for schematic, PCB, component, and 3D objects). Even the 3D view of the board assembly has been very useful--even when my initial take on that feature was that it would not be.

    As a free package I'm very impressed with DesignSpark 3.0 so far. As to others who have suggested it is not intuitive I can't imagine how they feel it falls short in that regard. All I know is that compared to FreePCB, DesignSpark 3.0 is a 9/10 and FreePCB is a 4/10 on the intuitive scale for me.

    Chris B.
    (I have no stake in any tool vendors, I'm just an independent developer)

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    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Posted by js: Mon. Nov 21, 2011 - 08:44 PM
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    Quote:
    as a new user I wanted to know the best package to start using.
    I used a BITUMEN package for my first PCBs, then moved onto DALO pens and progressed to black tape.

    Upgraded to Red and Blue tape for double sided boards.

    Then about 20 years ago I got Easytrax and then Autotrax for DOS. The 3D viewer was a bit slow with all the above packages and it took about a day or more after the boards were etched before it finished.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Mon. Nov 21, 2011 - 08:59 PM
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    Chris,

    DesignSpark is based on Easy-PC, which has been around for many years:

    http://www.numberone.com/

    I was one of their first customers.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

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    elammers
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    Posted by elammers: Sat. Nov 26, 2011 - 08:17 PM
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    Today. I came across www.fritzing.org , it's open source software and seems to be geared towards hobbyists with fairly small projects. Anybody here tried it?

    $ Fixed link - JS $

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    gchapman
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    Posted by gchapman: Tue. Dec 20, 2011 - 11:03 AM
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    Online schematic drawing tool Scheme-it:
    http://www.digikey.com/us/en/mkt/scheme-it.html

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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    Storken
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    Posted by Storken: Sun. Feb 26, 2012 - 06:50 PM
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    Seeing as Ultiboard isn't mentioned, this program definitely needs to be mentioned.

    Adding parts is easy, finding footprints is easy, 3d-view (and making a 3d componenet is easy. The only thing is the price, I'm glad I get it for free through my school ;) Not cheap, but it blows (nearly) every option out of the water. Together with Multisim, it's a awesome package :)

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Mon. May 28, 2012 - 12:43 AM
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    ExpressPCB users that aren't members of Yahoo's EspressPCB group might be interested to know a user has written a program that does some of the stuff ExpressPCB didn't do but should have.

    His name is Marty Flick and he put a program called XGpcb in the group under Files/Tools. It compares the board with the schematic and reports errors. It will also do a DRC Check, and it will produce a Bill of Materials.

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Thu. May 31, 2012 - 06:25 PM
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    ExpressPCB update. Marty Flick has a new enhanced version of his checker program. It's now called xCheck and it is now located here:
    http://softwaregizmos.com/xcheck...

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    jokkebk
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    Posted by jokkebk: Mon. Jul 9, 2012 - 07:41 AM
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    I just finished a three-part treatment on DipTrace Pattern & Component editors, Schematic Layout tool and PCB Layout tool. First two also contain YouTube videos which show the applications in action:

    http://codeandlife.com/2012/05/28/attiny2313-breadboard-header-with-diptrace/
    http://codeandlife.com/2012/06/02/pcb-design-with-diptrace/
    http://codeandlife.com/2012/07/07/diptrace-and-pcb-manufacture-with-olimex/

    If the moderators consider the material worthy, it could maybe be appended to the DipTrace post.

    http://codeandlife.com

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    Bronze Markbobgardner
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    Posted by bobgardner: Sun. Jul 15, 2012 - 09:30 PM
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    Howdy gchapman in FW. I clicked on schem-it and it loads right up. Guess its one of those 'cloud' apps. I was able to
    immediately add diodes, Rs, Cs, gnd symbols.. I'm thinking this is great! Now how do I put an AVR on it? So I guess
    this is where the user community starts adding parts to manufacturer libraries? The tienin with digikey is great. We already do that with altium dxp.
    So basically, my question is: did I miss the IC library pulldown in the left hand menu, or is that bit still TBD?

    Imagecraft compiler user

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    gchapman
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    Posted by gchapman: Mon. Jul 16, 2012 - 03:56 AM
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    AVR, add libraries - Scheme-it is good for what it does (small snippets of a design or a concept for communication; i.o.w. a common tool among two people). Otherwise Eagle, Kicad, etc. are usually more appropriate for a full design (have AVR and such, etc.). At least that's the way I use these tools.
    IC library - seems the IC manufacturers have their own subset of a CAD tool or use a cloud app (schematic entry, simulation).

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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    cakemonster
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    Posted by cakemonster: Sat. Sep 8, 2012 - 02:04 PM
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    Just wanted to say:
    I've experience with Express PCB, Eagle an Advance Circuits and Pad2Pad.
    I'd have to say Pad2Pad seems like the best company to use of the three for easy boards with a fair amount of options, fair price and quick turn around.

    I like how you can use pad2pad for colored thin boards you can cut apart with scissors where as with Express PCB the boards are very hard to cut apart.
    Also with pad2pad you can get colored solder masking and silk screen any way you'd like.

    The colors come out excellent! They even have controls to remove solder mask over custom designed copper pads, which is very cool an express PCB doesn't have this. You can control solder masking and copper planes any way you'd like.

    Eagle is just annoyingly tough to finish a PCB you can be happy with..

    I'd go with express PCB for ease of use and Pad2Pad for most options over eagle any day. Although eagle boards usually come out looking the best, you can do just about anything with pad2pad that you can do with eagle.and the interface is very similar to express PCB.

    One thing I like about express PCB is they finally got in the option to add a ground plane throughout your board that makes things look a lot more professional and less noisy. They didn't used to have this option when I started using their service. I think a noob could draw a PCB with this program over night without any explanation from the experienced.

    But Pad2Pad is more friendly for the frequent designer. Better options, still very easy to use free software. I have several years experience with both options an both are highly recommended for average Hobby use.

    It seems like about $50USD will get you a run of tan no older mask no silk screen boards an about $100-$120 should buy you some decent space on some colored boards with silk screen.

    It's very rare for me to spend more than $150 on a run of boards... and I usually have tons of boards laying around after for years.

    Try to design with "flexibility" in mind. Stuff you can use for years. If your doing proprietary stuff, do as few boards as you need and purchase more later if needed. Too many proprietary boards laying around is no help.

    Also, fill your empty board space up with different sized prototyping and "breadboard-like" PCB's. these always come in handy later... especially breakout component boards. These you can even sell on ebay if you have overrun.

    Make sure you save your GOOD and FINISHED PCB files to disk for later use.
    the robot in my avatar, I lost his PCB file yeas ago in a system format and would have to draw it all over again from scratch if I wanted more PCB's of that robot. :roll:
    SAVE YOUR FINISHED PCB FILES TO EXTERNAL DISK!
    Then email yourself a second copy for the "save" folder in your email box.

    for cutting PCB's apart,
    If you didn't get them routed but still want to tile a bunch of PCB's up on a board for cheap,
    Go buy an expensive (+-$8USD) pair of good LARGE Fiskars scissors from Walmart , put on some leather gloves and some safety glasses and chop the PCB's apart yourself! You can even cut the very thick PCB's from express PCB in this manner with a bit of care.

    Last piece of advice on designing circuit boards:
    HAVE FUN!
    Drawing up PCB's is my favorite part of my hobby of electronics! 8)

    Here is SOME of the PCB's I have drawn..
    I've even used it for mechanical designs like walking servo robots and ball bearing gearboxes.

    (Right click and press view image to enlarge)

    if (Learning_AVRs)
    {
    DOH();
    }

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    steve17
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    Posted by steve17: Mon. Sep 17, 2012 - 12:50 AM
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    The thin boards sounds good but not good enough to go through the trouble to switch from ExpressPCB.

    I almost always put multiple circuits on a board and cut them up. I used to use a hacksaw but I read the glass dust was bad for the lungs so now I score and snap. I always put a series of holes where I want to cut or snap, but maybe I'll try without the holes.

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    funktown
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    Posted by funktown: Fri. Sep 21, 2012 - 10:39 AM
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    I like KiCAD the best out of the ones I've used. I've made quite a few PCBs with it now.

    Some things are a little odd at first, but they're all like that.

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    cakemonster
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    Posted by cakemonster: Mon. Sep 24, 2012 - 08:50 AM
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    Quote:
    The thin boards sounds good but not good enough to go through the trouble to switch from ExpressPCB.

    I almost always put multiple circuits on a board and cut them up. I used to use a hacksaw but I read the glass dust was bad for the lungs so now I score and snap. I always put a series of holes where I want to cut or snap, but maybe I'll try without the holes.

    No, but control of solder mask is very much a great reason to go from express PCB to Pad 2 Pad. Thin boards actually can help where weight is concerned too. Some companies will do paper thin flexible boards!
    Another good thing about Pad 2 Pad is they will route your PCB's for you or tab/score/tile them.

    With the colors, routing/soring/tabs, thickness adjustments, solder mask controls and basically a similar interface that is easy to use, I have to give Pad 2 Pad the heads up.

    Although Express PCB is a great service and I have used them many more times than Pad 2 Pad.

    Really you can't go wrong either way.. depending on what you need done.

    If you need to cut or sand PCB's at home, do so outside with full cover eye protection and breather mask, then wash off after you are done and you will be just fine. Been cutting these things up for years. Just have to be safe about it. :wink:

    if (Learning_AVRs)
    {
    DOH();
    }

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    bigpilot
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    Posted by bigpilot: Fri. Feb 15, 2013 - 05:16 PM
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    I often wonder if there are any autorouters which produce sensible results. Most don't even come close to how a human would route a board. I've never seen an autorouter routing a bus as it should be routed, with parallel tracks.

    Anyway, I'm still using Eagle. But I've been planning to switch to KiCAD for quite some time. It's written in C++ using the wxWidgets library, which I also use for my open-source project and which I'm a fan of.

    Building my dreams!

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    ericaleo
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    Posted by ericaleo: Sat. Apr 26, 2014 - 10:06 AM
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    pcbmaking.com would be the best option for printed circuit board. It designs professional PCB at cheaper price. You can place your order instantly and get free shipping. Its easy way to get your job done! Good luck!

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    tomedison1234
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    Posted by tomedison1234: Tue. Jun 24, 2014 - 03:32 PM
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    Adding more info on DipTrace:

    Contrasting, several of the "free" PCB software packages only produce proprietary output files that lock you into a particular board manufacturer.

    DipTrace does NOT do that. For the small price you pay to get it, it produces output that is fully portable and fully standardized.

    The schematic tool works fine. It is not very high resolution, nor very sophisticated. However, it interacts with the layout program. You may also build your own libary parts, both the logical view and the physical view.

    The physical view that you use from the library, or that you add to the library, links to the part used in the schematic. From the schematic, you can go to the board placement routine and set up the board physical paramters, then run autoplacement, and then autoroute.

    I do not really have a basis for comparison for the autoroute, but the DipTrace offers a lot of options for autoroute, such as locking in certain traces that you lay in manually, setting the copper planes, enforcing boundary edge spacing, and a host of other things.

    DipTrace has good support. I believe their team is in Ukraine. They respond quickly by email to answer questions. I had very good help during my learning curve.

    Finally, the learning curve IS easy. I tried Eagle and found it to be too cryptic and time consuming. For an Eagle devotee, the CLI seems powerful. But to someone in a hurry, DipTrace is the way to go.

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    kevinas
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    Posted by kevinas: Thu. Sep 18, 2014 - 06:11 AM
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    hi every one ! i have a problem in designing PCB with proteus 8

    i wanna put a DC power connector(like barrel dc power connector)! how can i do that?? i dont have any dc power connector in library!(also i wanna see that in visualizer mode)

    so sorry i m a beginner :D

    Last Edited: Thu. Sep 18, 2014 - 06:12 AM
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    valusoft
    valusoft's picture
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    Posted by valusoft: Thu. Sep 18, 2014 - 06:16 AM (Reply to #97)
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    kevinas wrote:

    hi every one ! i have a problem in designing PCB with proteus 8

    i wanna put a DC power connector(like barrel dc power connector)! how can i do that?? i dont have any dc power connector in library!(also i wanna see that in visualizer)

    so sorry i m a beginner :D

     

    "so sorry" this isn't the support forum for Proteus 8. It is the forum for the Atmel range of microcontrollers. Perhaps you should ask for help from the makers of Proteus. Sorry.

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    gchapman
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    Posted by gchapman: Sun. Oct 5, 2014 - 09:22 PM
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    Mouser Speeds Design with Launch of MultiSIM BLUE,
    Powered by NI

    New Design Tool Does it All: Scheme, Simulate, PCB Design & Layout, and BOM to Cart Purchase

    October 2, 2014

    http://www.mouser.com/publicrelationsmousermultisimblueseptlaunch2014final/

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

    Last Edited: Sun. Oct 5, 2014 - 09:26 PM
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    Torby
    Torby's picture
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    Posted by Torby: Tue. Oct 7, 2014 - 05:34 PM
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    Mouser's MultiSIM Blue: 775MB download.

     

    You might want to use some connection besides your 4G.

    If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

    If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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    gchapman
    gchapman's picture
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    Posted by gchapman: Sat. Oct 11, 2014 - 12:53 AM (Reply to #54)
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    sfcircuits wrote:
    Orcad for schematic capture. (Orcad is made by Cadence)

    OrCAD

    Lite Overview

    http://www.orcad.com/resources/orcad-lite-overview

    OrCAD

    Lite Limits

    http://www.orcad.com/sites/default/files/resources/files/OrCAD-Lite-Limits_0.pdf (74kB)

    via

    ARRL (American Radio Relay League)

    Circuit Simulation and Analysis

    by Dr Saeid Moslehpour.

    http://www.arrl.org/circuit-simulation

    OrCAD Lite is nearly 1GB; via download or by DVD.

    OrCAD might run on Linux:

    WineHQ

    Orcad 16.x

    https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=18131

    Data per the template:

    URL: http://www.orcad.com/resources/orcad-downloads

    Having issues with your download? Request a hard copy of the OrCAD 16.6 Lite DVD (link is external)

    Price: zero for Lite.

    Cost: address, e-mail address, telephone number.

    Required OS: Microsoft Windows, possibly Linux by Wine.

    Description: http://www.orcad.com/resources/orcad-lite-overview

    Operator notes:

    Useful links:

    Attached:

     

    https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/orcad-sale-na-only-ends-2017-nov-30

     

    Edit: sale

     

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

    Last Edited: Thu. Nov 2, 2017 - 01:30 AM
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    outer_space
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    Posted by outer_space: Tue. Oct 21, 2014 - 02:03 PM (Reply to #94)
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    I used to think all autorouters were terrible.  Freerouting.net gives impressive results and made me optimistic that the technology is possible.

    Top
    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Tue. Oct 21, 2014 - 02:24 PM (Reply to #102)
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    outer_space wrote:

    I used to think all autorouters were terrible.  Freerouting.net gives impressive results and made me optimistic that the technology is possible.

    Yes, but it was taken down several months ago if I recall correctly because of some legal dispute.

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    outer_space
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    Posted by outer_space: Tue. Oct 21, 2014 - 03:04 PM (Reply to #103)
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    Changes to java made the freerouting architecture unworkable.  It worked such that you had to upload your design to run the autorouter.  This was bad for professional projects that don't want their design floating around on the internet.  The source code is available now and can be run locally.

    Top
    Bronze Markawneil
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    Posted by awneil: Tue. Oct 21, 2014 - 07:59 PM (Reply to #101)
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    gchapman wrote:

    Lite Limits

    http://www.orcad.com/sites/default/files/resources/files/OrCAD-Lite-Limits_0.pdf (74kB)

     

    OrCAD wrote:
    OrCAD Capture CIS Lite

    ■ You cannot save designs that have more than 75 nets, including the 
    hierarchical blocks in the design. You can still view or create larger 
    designs.

    I don't think you're going to get very much done at all within that limit!

    Quote:
    ■ You cannot create parts with more than 100 pins.

    And that's also pretty tough these days!

    Top Tips:

    1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
    2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
    3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
    4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
    5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
    6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
    Top
    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Wed. Oct 22, 2014 - 12:02 AM (Reply to #104)
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    outer_space wrote:

    The source code is available now and can be run locally.

     

    From where? (Never mind... found it at http://www.eevblog.com/forum/cha... )

     

    Are you actually using it?

     

    I would be interested in trying it locally. I have used it a few times in the distant past when you had to upload your .dsn file. This would help me avoid the move to Kicad just for the push/shove features.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Ross

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

    Last Edited: Wed. Oct 22, 2014 - 01:33 AM
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    outer_space
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    Posted by outer_space: Wed. Oct 22, 2014 - 01:40 PM (Reply to #106)
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    Its on my agenda to get it running, busy with too much stuff first.  Years back I wrote the geda plugin to export/import dsn files, used freerouting on many professional projects (don't tell my clients their design was uploaded to the internet!)  Even if something has to be hand routed, running it thru freerouting would come up with some great answers I didn't think of.  I tried talking to professional pcb layout people about using it, but it threatens their careers so they don't want to hear about any autorouting.

    Top
    TPE
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    Posted by TPE: Wed. Oct 22, 2014 - 02:06 PM
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    1) Freerouting do not work anymore? or missing somethink?

    2) Autorouteur:

    when you have done all EMC rules & clever plass of component you can use autorouter but  it is why "prof" not use so much. 

    I do not use autorouteur but freerouting was nice to modify a finish board. 

    Thierry

    Thierry Pottier

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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Thu. Oct 23, 2014 - 05:31 AM
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    I just tried the Windows version of FreeRouter (link above). It works nicely... based upon a single test.

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    TPE
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    Posted by TPE: Thu. Oct 23, 2014 - 10:26 AM
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    Thank you 

    download and try,

    for finish board some need ny wire usefull, but for new board. I must see more perhaps usefull.

    Thierry

    Thierry Pottier

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    outer_space
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    Posted by outer_space: Mon. Oct 27, 2014 - 08:30 PM
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    I just tried freerouting on an altium design.  It mostly works but insisted on using 10/10 tracks so it failed on any closely pitched IC and bga.  I think it is altium dsn export which is broken or never fully developed.

    Top
    gchapman
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    Posted by gchapman: Tue. Oct 28, 2014 - 12:00 AM (Reply to #111)
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    The TopoR autorouter operator manual states that Altium uses only metric units.

    Does Freerouting read P-CAD ASCII?

    TIA

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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    brunomusw
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    Posted by brunomusw: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:22 PM (Reply to #99)
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    gchapman wrote:

    Mouser Speeds Design with Launch of MultiSIM BLUE,
    Powered by NI

    New Design Tool Does it All: Scheme, Simulate, PCB Design & Layout, and BOM to Cart Purchase

    October 2, 2014

    http://www.mouser.com/publicrelationsmousermultisimblueseptlaunch2014final/

     

    Guys I saw this tool today and as a Mouser client I see some advantages. Someone already try?

    Regards,

    Bruno Muswieck

    Top
    gchapman
    gchapman's picture
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    Posted by gchapman: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 06:52 PM (Reply to #113)
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    brunomusw wrote:
    Someone already try?
    Maybe.

    https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment/1340126#comment-1340126

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

    Top
    DanielG
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    Posted by DanielG: Fri. Dec 19, 2014 - 11:36 PM
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    Which layout program has push and shove?   I think thats the best feature to have to save time.  Probably one of the hardest features to develop.    I use Diptrace which I like a lot but it doesn't have push and shove.

    Top
    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Sat. Dec 20, 2014 - 03:27 AM
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    I think the latest KiCad does. There is also a 3rd party tool that provides it with Eagle. It used to be at FreeRouting.net.  Memory has failed me with the name...

     

    Oh yeah ... look at post #18 in this thread  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/cha...

     

     

     

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    stevech
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    Posted by stevech: Tue. Jan 20, 2015 - 08:02 AM (Reply to #116)
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    I've used most.

    Definitely prefer DipTrace.

     

    Top
    sparrow2
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    Posted by sparrow2: Tue. Jan 20, 2015 - 08:18 AM
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    A question a bit from the side line.

    I have a board made in ExpressPCB, and have payed for a gerber file.

    Now I need to move 4 holes 1 mm, and don't want to order a new board.

     

    Are there a free/cheap easy to use gerber editor?

    Top
    gchapman
    gchapman's picture
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    Posted by gchapman: Tue. Jan 20, 2015 - 04:30 PM (Reply to #118)
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    A roundabout way is Gerber to SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics), vector graphics editor, export to Gerber and drill.

    gerbv Logo

    gerbv - A Free/Open Source Gerber Viewer

    http://gerbv.geda-project.org/

    ...

    Gerbv can export a layer image to PNG, .ps, .pdf, and .svg, both from within the GUI as well as via a command line switch (cairo version only).

    boldport/pcbmode · GitHub

    https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode

    A printed circuit board design tool with a twist

    PCBmodE is a printed circuit board design Python script that creates an SVG from JSON input files, and then creates Gerber and Excellon files for manufacturing.

    PCBmodE documentation states it's only for two layers.

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

    Last Edited: Tue. Jan 20, 2015 - 05:18 PM
    Top
    leon_heller
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    Posted by leon_heller: Tue. Jan 20, 2015 - 05:06 PM (Reply to #115)
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    DanielG wrote:

    Which layout program has push and shove?   I think thats the best feature to have to save time.  Probably one of the hardest features to develop.    I use Diptrace which I like a lot but it doesn't have push and shove.

     

    The Pulsonix software I use does:

     

    http://www.pulsonix.com/

    http://www.pulsonix.com/download...

     

    It's quite expensive, though.

    Leon Heller G1HSM

    Top
    IliyaKovac
    IliyaKovac's picture
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Wed. Jan 21, 2015 - 12:45 PM
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    AutoTRAX DEX - FREE: No pin limits, no sheet limits, no layers limit, no PCB size limit ... no limits!

     

    The Free version of AutoTRAX DEX. This is the non-commercial (not for profit) version. It is the identical version as the commercial version. There is only one binary program. The only restriction is that it must be used for non-commercial projects. There is no demo program; there’s no need!

    • You do not need to register for the free software.
    • It does not have a time limit.
    • There is no limit to the number or size of sheets.
    • There are no layer limits or PCB size limits.
    • There are no adverts for PCB board manufacturers.
    • The BOM does not ‘guide’ you to a major component distributor.

    Unlike other EDA programs, DEX has just one simple to understand price for commercial use. Non-commercial use is totally free with no limits except it must be used for non-commercial use. Simply put, non-commercial use is totally free, commercial use is not. If you are making $$$ out of your design then it is only fair that you pay an equally fair single price.

    Now that's a refreshing change!

    Visit the web site for more...

     

    Regards
    Iliya Kovac, Developer of AutoTRAX DEX
    Spreading the joy
     

     

    Top
    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Wed. Jan 21, 2015 - 09:47 PM
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    Iliya when your program was first released I was excited because you took up the name of the Protel program I was using and I thought that, at least, one could import and use years of REAL Autotrax files but, from memory, that was not the case.

     

    Has this changed? I ended up purchasing RIMU because I could just import Autotrax files, the schematics were not so good but the PCBs work very well and I can simply import components, both schematics and PCB layouts. May need a bit of massaging but otherwise they import well.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

    Top
    Bronze Marktheusch
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    Posted by theusch: Wed. Jan 21, 2015 - 10:03 PM
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    Iliya when your program was first released I was excited because you took up the name of the Protel program I was using and I thought that, at least, one could import and use years of REAL Autotrax files but, from memory, that was not the case.

    Found in the Revision History

    http://kov.com/DownloadFiles/wha...

    Tuesday 28th October, 2014

    Multiline text output to Gerber can now be left, center or right aligned.

    Will now import AutoTRAX EDA files with sub-system sheets.

    You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

    I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

    Top
    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Posted by js: Thu. Jan 22, 2015 - 05:26 AM
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    I don't think it's the Protel Autotrax files it's talking about but I hope I'm wrong..at least once in my life....

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

    Top
    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Thu. Jan 22, 2015 - 02:09 PM (Reply to #124)
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    js wrote:

    I don't think it's the Protel Autotrax files it's talking about but I hope I'm wrong..at least once in my life....

     

    Sorry, AutoTRAX is not related to Protel/Altium in any way.

    Top
    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Posted by js: Thu. Jan 22, 2015 - 09:39 PM
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    I'm surprised that Protel/Altium hasn't sued you yet for using their software name.  wink

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

    Top
    Who-me
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    Posted by Who-me: Thu. Jan 22, 2015 - 10:22 PM (Reply to #125)
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    IliyaKovac wrote:

    Sorry, AutoTRAX is not related to Protel/Altium in any way.

     

    Can you clarify what exact CAD System files this means then ?

     

    Will now import AutoTRAX EDA files with sub-system sheets.

     

    Import is usually terminology referring to third part database reading (eg I also see Import Eagle)

    Top
    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Fri. Jan 23, 2015 - 12:29 AM (Reply to #126)
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    js wrote:

    I'm surprised that Protel/Altium hasn't sued you yet for using their software name.  wink

     

    It's simple, I own the US AutoTRAX trademark. Protel never registered the trademark. 

    Top
    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Fri. Jan 23, 2015 - 12:32 AM (Reply to #127)
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    Import from a previous AutoTRAX product of mine. AutoTRAX  EDA. Now no longer sold. It's replaced by AutoTRAX DEX. A total redesign.

    Top
    joeymorin
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    Posted by joeymorin: Sat. Jan 24, 2015 - 02:07 AM
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    What, no Linux version?

    "Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

    "Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

    "Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

    "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

    "Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

    "We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

     

    Top
    TPE
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    Posted by TPE: Sat. Jan 24, 2015 - 08:11 AM
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    Hi

    Download AutoTRAX.

    I am a eagle user... 

    I am impress, ok need some  time to learn this GUI.. not so direct but 15 years with eagle take time to see new GUI.

    Good work IliyaKovac  your price can make change , I am just see to update eagle to 7.2 or not...

    Thierry

     

    Thierry Pottier

    Top
    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Sat. Jan 24, 2015 - 12:36 PM (Reply to #130)
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    joeymorin wrote:

    What, no Linux version?

     

    It may run under Wine.

     

    Top
    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Posted by js: Sat. Jan 24, 2015 - 09:31 PM
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    15 years with eagle

    ...will make you crazy for sure....wink

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

    Top
    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Sat. Jan 24, 2015 - 09:43 PM
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    When I did the work for importing Eagle libraries and schematics/boards I had to learn Eagle and the internal data structure. I am totally amazed by how bad it is. I know you are not supposed to criticise competitors, but it really is !$%#@#!@

    I am astonished it got the market share it as.

    Top
    joeymorin
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    Posted by joeymorin: Sun. Jan 25, 2015 - 05:14 AM
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    IliyaKovac wrote:
    It may run under Wine.
    Sadly no.

    "Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

    "Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

    "Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

    "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

    "Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

    "We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

     

    Top
    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Sun. Jan 25, 2015 - 10:09 PM
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    ..maybe you didn't drink enough of it.....

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    stevech
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    Posted by stevech: Thu. Jan 29, 2015 - 06:42 AM (Reply to #133)
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    js wrote:

    15 years with eagle

    ...will make you crazy for sure....wink

    for me, 1 day with Eagle was enough. How 80's it is.

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    kerim1
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    Posted by kerim1: Thu. Jan 29, 2015 - 07:32 AM
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    Good work Ilija, looks promising.

    I make the PCB's myself and I need to print the high resolution negative on transparency.

    Can this be done in AutoTRAX?

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    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Thu. Jan 29, 2015 - 10:11 AM (Reply to #138)
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    Use the plot not print function. Tools->Cam->Plot menu. You get scaling, reverse printing, negative, per layer.

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    kerim1
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    Posted by kerim1: Thu. Jan 29, 2015 - 10:41 AM (Reply to #139)
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    Thanks, I'll try that.

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    Torby
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    Posted by Torby: Sun. Feb 1, 2015 - 12:31 AM (Reply to #133)
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    js wrote:

    15 years with eagle

    ...will make you crazy for sure....wink

     

    Why do you think he's here?

    If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

    If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

    Top
    Who-me
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    Posted by Who-me: Sun. Feb 1, 2015 - 05:45 AM (Reply to #139)
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    IliyaKovac wrote:

    Use the plot not print function. Tools->Cam->Plot menu. You get scaling, reverse printing, negative, per layer.

     

    Do you have separate XY scaling ?

    Years ago, I recall tweaking postscript files to have differing XY scales, so that the actual final image was square.

    Anything that uses a drum path, is going to have material thickness impacts.

     

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    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Sun. Feb 1, 2015 - 05:32 PM (Reply to #142)
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    Who-me wrote:

     

    IliyaKovac wrote:

     

    Use the plot not print function. Tools->Cam->Plot menu. You get scaling, reverse printing, negative, per layer.

     

     

     

    Do you have separate XY scaling ?

    Years ago, I recall tweaking postscript files to have differing XY scales, so that the actual final image was square.

    Anything that uses a drum path, is going to have material thickness impacts.

     

     

    Sorry no.

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    mondo80
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    Posted by mondo80: Sat. Feb 21, 2015 - 11:17 PM
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    Here is my short opinion about software that I have tested:

    *EAGLE:
                  - Pros: free version available, very popular, lot of libraries, lot of components available, easy switch to PCB design,relatively small program < 100 Mb.
                 - Cons: the interface is horrible and in my opinion is one of the worst i.e if you want to move object you have to click move button for this operation from panel, then if you want to make connection between two components you have to click another button, same for removing, changing etc.. horrible and makes the whole process is very slow. I found it very hard to edit components from library i.e uC pin names, also there is no simulation environment.

    *MULTISIM
                       -Pros: very intuitive interface, easy to use from the first launch, easy switch to PCB design(require UltiBoard), simulation capability, relatively easy edition of existing components.
                       -Cons: no free version, relatively small library - especially in case of uC, require UltiBoard for PCB design.

     

    Summing things up, I personal choose MULTISIM, mainly because designing schematics is 2 times faster than with EAGLE. What's your opinion about those two ?

    Last Edited: Sat. Feb 21, 2015 - 11:18 PM
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    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Sat. Feb 28, 2015 - 09:06 PM (Reply to #132)
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    IliyaKovac wrote:

     

    joeymorin wrote:

     

    What, no Linux version?

     

     

     

    It may run under Wine.

     

     

    You may be in look in the near future as .net Is be imported to LINUX.

     

    http://www.hanselman.com/blog/AnnouncingNET2015NETasOpenSourceNETonMacandLinuxandVisualStudioCommunity.aspx

     

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    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Sat. Feb 28, 2015 - 09:31 PM
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    .net Is be imported to LINUX.

    And that's BAD, right?

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    IliyaKovac
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    Posted by IliyaKovac: Sun. Mar 1, 2015 - 08:07 PM (Reply to #146)
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    js wrote:

    .net Is be imported to LINUX.

    And that's BAD, right?

     

    For me it's great, however, the poor guys and spent a lot of time porting their code to native LINUX may have wished they developed the program using .NET.

    When the port has been completed there will probably be a lot more quality applications on LINUX.

    Top
    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Wed. Apr 15, 2015 - 10:57 PM
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    But if you post something after you CAN delete all.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    gchapman
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    Posted by gchapman: Fri. May 1, 2015 - 05:08 AM
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    Tool makes high-end PCB design affordable

    April 29, 2015

    http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/cole-bin/4439314/Tool-makes-high-end-PCB-design-affordable

    ...

    Mentor Graphics has expanded its existing PADS platform to offer three options: PADS Standard, Standard PLUS and Standard Professional. At the same time, it has dropped the entry point from the current $10,000 average in the industry to $5,000 for an unlimited usage license on its baseline PADS Standard.

    ...

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

    Last Edited: Fri. May 1, 2015 - 05:09 AM
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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Fri. May 1, 2015 - 05:43 AM (Reply to #149)
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    gchapman wrote:

    Tool makes high-end PCB design affordable

    April 29, 2015

    http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/cole-bin/4439314/Tool-makes-high-end-PCB-design-affordable

    ...

    Mentor Graphics has expanded its existing PADS platform to offer three options: PADS Standard, Standard PLUS and Standard Professional. At the same time, it has dropped the entry point from the current $10,000 average in the industry to $5,000 for an unlimited usage license on its baseline PADS Standard.

    ...

     

    Oh goodie... I'll rush out and buy two.

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    rev
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    Posted by rev: Fri. May 1, 2015 - 10:47 AM
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    Cant stop laughing Ross laugh

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    peret
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    Posted by peret: Thu. May 21, 2015 - 12:50 AM
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    Don't forget to budget for the $2000+ per year maintenance contract!

     

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    Bronze Markawneil
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    Posted by awneil: Fri. May 22, 2015 - 07:12 AM
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    Altium now jumping onto the "community"/"maker" free tools bandwagon:

     

    Altium has announced an open beta programme for their community-driven PCB design tool.

     

    CircuitMaker will be available worldwide to all interested electronics designers, and aims to address the needs of the electronics maker and hobbyist community with a free software offering.

     

    Anyone interested in participating in the open beta can register now at the CircuitMaker website, with invitations being sent out from week of May 18th, 2015. - See more at: http://www.cieonline.co.uk/world...

    http://www.cieonline.co.uk/world...

    Top Tips:

    1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
    2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
    3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
    4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
    5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
    6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
    Top
    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Fri. May 22, 2015 - 07:22 AM
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    Circuitmaker news is OLD news, i have downloaded it but not played with the program yet.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    RickB
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    Posted by RickB: Fri. May 22, 2015 - 05:49 PM
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    One has to wonder if the recent development progress of Kicad and upcoming stable release has anything to do with that. CERNs collaboration in that project and the resulting improvements have to be of concern to the big players.

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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 01:28 AM
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    Yes Rick. I know two people in Melbourne who swear by KiCad, one of whom is contributing to its ongoing design. I will probably try and maybe adopt it in the near future.

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    jgmdesign
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    Posted by jgmdesign: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 02:04 AM
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    I used the free version of DipTrace before I purchased a license.  The software does everything I want and $800.00usd is a bargain compared to some of the prices I have seen.

     

    Jim

    I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

     

    "The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

     

    "Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

     

    "If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

    "Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

     

    Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

    Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

    Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 02:37 AM
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    KiCad is $free... sorry Jim.

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 02:51 AM
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    hmmm I thought I had downloaded the full Circuit maker package, it was only the installer. surprise

     

    Downloading the full 500MB at a 4th world Internet speed, may take a while. angry

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 03:28 AM
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    This is what it looks like, no idea what to do next!!

     

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 03:33 AM
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    What happens if you click on...

     

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 03:38 AM
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    My computer may die..... too busy with grandchildren right now.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 03:49 AM
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    Same for me tomorrow. It is "Gamma's" birthday lunch.

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    jgmdesign
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    Posted by jgmdesign: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 12:44 PM
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    KiCad is $free... sorry Jim.

     

    So is DipTrace

     

    If you need to go over 300 pins then you have to purchase a license.  I do admit I am not aware of KiCad's limitations(if any).

     

    Well I took a look at the kiCad website and I must say that KiCad is impressive.  I wished I knew of it before I went to DipTrace.  Might have to download it and see what it's capabilities are for importing other Cad package files are and the like.

     

    Ok, I shall sit down and eat some crow now.  Nicely done Ross.

     

    JIm

    I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

     

    "The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

     

    "Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

     

    "If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

    "Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

     

    Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

    Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

    Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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    valusoft
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    Posted by valusoft: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 01:37 PM
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    Jim,

     

    I did not set out to cause you discomfort. Look at it this way... it will not cost you any more. I am told that KiCad can import Eagle (which I use), so we both may be starting a similar journey. cheeky

     

    Cheers,

     

    Ross

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    jgmdesign
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    Posted by jgmdesign: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 02:54 PM
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    NO worries Ross!  What discomfort?  Sure I bought a license for DipTrace, and after I plowed and struggled through learning how to use it I am pretty pleased with it overall.(look at my Avatar.  THats what I looked like when I started with it;) )

    Had I known about KiCad I may have done something different, but at teh time I had already been using the freeware and I ran out of room, so....  Time to pay the piper.

    At the same time KiCad has some of the same features DipTrace has.  THe 3D rendering is very useful IMO.  I am not going to say yes or no on KiCad without trying it out.  Since I sadly have time on my hands I will do that.

     

    As far as Eagle and PADS go, I have used both and they are excellent tools.....Hell they BETTER be for the costs associated with them(PADS especially).  I will never need their full suite of capabilities, so I don't pay much attention to them.

     

     

    As I said in a thread somewhere, ALL Schematic/PCB CAD programs SUCK in some way or another.  It's simply what you are willing to accept.

     

    Cheers!

    Jim

    I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

     

    "The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

     

    "Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

     

    "If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

    "Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

     

    Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

    Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

    Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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    RickB
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    Posted by RickB: Sat. May 23, 2015 - 08:36 PM
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    If you are currently using xyz pcb software, you might as well continue using it until the new stable release (not yet released) has been in use for a while. The learning curve is steep.

     

    The feature set has been frozen and most of the work is on the remaining bugs and docs.

     

     

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    G0NZ4L0
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    Posted by G0NZ4L0: Thu. Jul 23, 2015 - 06:20 AM
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    Altium Designer 13.

     

     

    while(!solution) {patience--;}

    Last Edited: Thu. Jul 23, 2015 - 06:22 AM
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    Ehsan2754
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    Posted by Ehsan2754: Fri. Jul 24, 2015 - 08:23 AM
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    On my opinion the best soft-wear for designing PCBs' is AltiumDesigner which was known as Protel

    I use it  and it is very powerful!

    *Piracy invitation deleted. Moderator*

     

    EhsanSH

     

    You can DO EVERYTHING!

    Just believe yourself !!!

    Last Edited: Fri. Jul 24, 2015 - 02:25 PM
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    Bronze Markjs
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    Posted by js: Fri. Jul 24, 2015 - 08:34 AM
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    I have a 2025 licence for this soft-wear 

    Wow 10 years from now. Not many people can afford it or need to use it when there are many good programs for $1000 or a lot less.

     

    By the way soft-wear can be tennis shoes compared to army boots. wink

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    Bassman59
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    Posted by Bassman59: Fri. Jul 24, 2015 - 04:41 PM (Reply to #168)
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    G0NZ4L0 wrote:

    Altium Designer 13.

    They're up to AD 15 now.

     

    -a

     

     

     

     

    ×

     

     

     

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    Torby
    Torby's picture
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    Posted by Torby: Mon. Jul 27, 2015 - 12:43 PM (Reply to #170)
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    js wrote:

    By the way soft-wear can be tennis shoes compared to army boots. wink

     

    hehe

     

    Ok. It's kindof cool to get a 3d rendering of your board, but I really don't see the point. Perhaps so you can check that the board and all the parts will fit in the case? But then, I still use FreePCB. Thinking about changing to kicad though.

    If you don't know my whole story, keep your mouth shut.

    If you know my whole story, you're an accomplice. Keep your mouth shut. 

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    valusoft
    valusoft's picture
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    Joined: Sat. Jul 2, 2005
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Posted by valusoft: Mon. Jul 27, 2015 - 01:54 PM
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    Tom,

     

    It could be useful to be able to see that you cannot get access to the side located adjustment pot because a big cap blocks your screwdriver... I wonder how I know? cheeky

     

    Ross

     

    Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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    meslomp
    meslomp's picture
    Level: Raving Lunatic
    Joined: Wed. May 2, 2007
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    Location: Nieuwegein, Netherlands
    Posted by meslomp: Tue. Jul 28, 2015 - 05:28 AM
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    Tom, as our housings are not square and have lowered sections all over the PCB, we use it to see if stuff mechanically fits.

    In the past we would either need to make a judgement on if thins would fit or not and after we finished we give a DXF file to our mechanical engineers with component locations. then we had a couple of days struggle to tell the engineers how high specific components were.

    Not to mention that we had to send a PCB outline and changes were also given through either a new DXF that we then imported or a e-mail that tolled us what to change. This was erroneous specially on the for instance screw-holes. Now we just take the 3D step file select the PCB drawn by the mechanical engineers and and convert that to the board outline.

     

    It has cost us some time to set things up correctly and have all the parts made, but in the long run it is really saving us a lot of time.

    In the past we had review rounds that could take as long as 2 or 3 weeks. now we most of the times are done in just 2 or 3 days.

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    Ehsan2754
    Ehsan2754's picture
    Level: New Member
    Joined: Sat. Jun 6, 2015
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    Posted by Ehsan2754: Wed. Jul 29, 2015 - 06:18 PM
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    Wow 10 years from now. Not many people can afford it or need to use it when there are many good programs for $1000 or a lot less.

     

    By the way soft-wear can be tennis shoes compared to army boots.

    hey big brother,

    This is Iran.

    the whole people are rich.

    they have rich mind!!!

    (POINT:other countries have many intelligent  people)

     

    * Piracy invitation deleted *

     

    You can DO EVERYTHING!

    Just believe yourself !!!

    Last Edited: Wed. Jul 29, 2015 - 09:25 PM
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    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
    Level: Moderator
    Joined: Wed. Mar 28, 2001
    Posts: 31197 View posts
    Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweis, but plenty of Corona beer)
    Posted by js: Wed. Jul 29, 2015 - 09:24 PM
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    But that's dishonest not rich. People go to jail for that kind of thing. I know that not all Iranians are rich or dishonest.

     

    Anyway I'll delete your offer.

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

    Last Edited: Wed. Jul 29, 2015 - 09:25 PM
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    Ehsan2754
    Ehsan2754's picture
    Level: New Member
    Joined: Sat. Jun 6, 2015
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    Posted by Ehsan2754: Fri. Jul 31, 2015 - 10:40 AM
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    My Propose is just that to help others.

    Because they helped me and still they are helping me!

    nothing else!

    *Last warning. You have posted download details 4 times. I have deleted all except this edited one. Do it again and your account will be deleted. Moderator*

    You can DO EVERYTHING!

    Just believe yourself !!!

    Last Edited: Fri. Jul 31, 2015 - 12:58 PM
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    Kartman
    Kartman's picture
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    Location: Melbourne,Australia
    Posted by Kartman: Fri. Jul 31, 2015 - 01:11 PM
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    You want to help others do illegal things? Read the rules of this forum to avoid unethical behaviour.

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    gchapman
    gchapman's picture
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    Joined: Tue. Jan 9, 2007
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    Location: Clay County, Texas, u.S.A.
    Posted by gchapman: Sun. Oct 18, 2015 - 11:43 AM (Reply to #153)
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    Altium's CircuitMaker saves the day for Max & Duane at ESC Minneapolis

    October 16, 2015

    http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/destination-esc/4440614/Altium-s-CircuitMaker-saves-the-day-for-Max---Duane-at-ESC-Minneapolis

    ...

    Furthermore, you can use CircuitMaker to create production products, sell millions of units, and become fabulously rich -- the only requirement being that you make such designs open source, which I personally don’t regard as being in any way unfair.

    ...

    Duane's problem was that he was using the free version of Eagle PCB to lay out our ruler/board, and he'd just run into the size limitation.

    ...

    You can only imagine Duane's delight to discover that CircuitMaker has no such limitations.

    ...

    "Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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    Bronze Markjs
    js's picture
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    Joined: Wed. Mar 28, 2001
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    Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweis, but plenty of Corona beer)
    Posted by js: Sun. Oct 18, 2015 - 08:21 PM
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    the only requirement being that you make such designs open source,

    SURE that would make you "fabulously rich"...well maybe not the person who designed it but the millions of people who just copied it!

    John Samperi

    Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

    https://www.ampertronics.com.au

    * Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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    derlo
    derlo's picture
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    Posted by derlo: Sat. Oct 24, 2015 - 05:25 AM (Reply to #2)
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    ExpressSch and ExpressPCB are useless if you want to order PCB in open market. None of them allows to export designs to ANY other SCH/PCB program and ExpressPCB does not produce globally recognized Gerber file for ordering PCB. Format is NOT recognized by any of the other SCH/PCB programs either. I wish I knew it all before I started creating designs in those.

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    steve17
    steve17's picture
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    Posts: 6970 View posts
    Location: New York State
    Posted by steve17: Sat. Oct 24, 2015 - 12:14 PM (Reply to #181)
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    derlo wrote:

    ExpressSch and ExpressPCB are useless if you want to order PCB in open market.

    robotroom/CopperConnection makes it easy to port ExpressPCB boards to their format and produce gerbers.   CopperConnection will check and tailor make, if necessary, the gerbers for several manufacturers.  I've always used OshPark.  They are cheap, seem cheap to me at least.  They seem to be of good quality and I usually get the boards in 10 days.

     

    http://www.robotroom.com/CopperConnection/index.html

     

    http://www.robotroom.com/CopperConnection/Converting-Express-PCB-Files.html

     

     

    ExpressPCB will sell you the gerbers.  I think it costs around $50 and I think you need to order some boards first.

     

     

    P.S.  It looks like ExpressPCB has updated their software.  They haven't done that in many years.  I haven't tried out their new software.

     

    With their old software, what made it a good system was a third party program called xCheck from softwaregizmos.

    http://softwaregizmos.com/xcheck.shtml

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    AndroCAD
    AndroCAD's picture
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    Posted by AndroCAD: Wed. Oct 28, 2015 - 12:58 PM
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    AndroCAD: Gerber PCB Viewer for Android

     

    Hello!

    We made the Gerber Viewer (standard RS-274X).

    It can properly draw about 70% of Gerber files.

     

    We need reports about bugs and crashes.

     

    Demo on Google Play:

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.androcad.gerberdemo

     

    The Viewer doesn't support old "RS-274D" and "Excellon drill" files.

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    Microzod
    Microzod's picture
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    Joined: Fri. May 31, 2013
    Posts: 248 View posts
    Location: Sweden