New ATtiny10 - the first ever 6-pin AVR

Go To Last Post
133 posts / 0 new
Author
Message
#1
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

ATtiny10: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/product...

Quote:
Description:
1K Bytes of In-System Self-Programmable Flash, 32 Bytes Internal SRAM.
One 16-bit Timer/Counter with PWM channels, 8-bit ADC, Analog Comparator.
Up to 12 MIPS throughput at 12 MHz. 1.8 - 5.5 V operation.

Key Parameters:
Flash (Kbytes) 1
SRAM (Bytes) 32
Max I/O Pins 4
F.max (MHz) 12
Vcc (V) 1.8-5-5V
Analog Comparator Yes

ATtiny10 Datasheet Preliminary (164 pages, revision A, updated 4/09) http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...
ATtiny10 Datasheet Preliminary Summary (14 pages, revision A, updated 4/09) http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Last Edited: Fri. Apr 17, 2009 - 10:19 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Nice! Thanks for the heads up.

Interesting memory structure on this one.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 03:18 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

">>New<< ATtiny10"?!?

Why, this has to be the oldest Tiny of them all, being announced in a previous millenium:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheet...

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

The Farnell spec sheet shows an 8 pin device!

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AndersAnd wrote:
Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

I think the idea is that it lets you use ANY I/O pin as an ADC input, not necessarily all... but you could. Practically speaking, you're right, the number of applications where you would use them all as ADC's is going to be very limited.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
">>New<< ATtiny10"?!?

Why, this has to be the oldest Tiny of them all, being announced in a previous millenium:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheet...

Lee

ka7ehk wrote:
The Farnell spec sheet shows an 8 pin device!

Jim

Obviously re-use of a device name that never hit the streets.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Note that there is a new "ISP" interface, "TPI". (More like I2C than like SPI?)

I'm not holding my breath to get samples. I wish there were a few bytes of EEPROM but if it ends up cheap enough I'll get along without.

Whoa--new instruction set mix. No SPM >>or<< LPM. A new BREAK instruction I don't think I've seen before.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Only the 2009-tiny10 seems to have a CLKMSR register while the 1999-tiny10 had no mention of this. How extremely confusing if they've re-used the same model number for an entirely different device.

But the idea of clock selection internally rather than by fuse bits (that CLKMSR provides) looks like an interesting development - no more clock fuse accidents?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AndersAnd wrote:
Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

Yeah I noticed that other ATtiny10 announced a long time ago in the ATtiny10/11/12 datasheet:

Quote:
ATtiny10 is the QuickFlash OTP Version of ATtiny11

But that was a 8-pin device, just an One Time Programmable version of ATtiny11. But I don't think it ever made it to the market and that's why they decided to use the same name again although this can be confusing.
The new 6-pin flash ATtiny10 has nothing to do with the old never relaswed 8-pin OTP ATtiny10.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 03:36 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
Note that there is a new "ISP" interface, "TPI". (More like I2C than like SPI?)

I'm not holding my breath to get samples. I wish there were a few bytes of EEPROM but if it ends up cheap enough I'll get along without.

Whoa--new instruction set mix. No SPM >>or<< LPM. A new BREAK instruction I don't think I've seen before.

LPM is accomplished by a mapping of the flash into data space! Sadly no writing to flash from code though, so no lack of EEPROM workaround either.

BREAK has been in the AVR instruction set documentation since at least Rev E

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 03:32 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

They are probably trying to compete on price with the 6-pin PIC10F2xx series: http://www.microchip.com/ParamCh...
Those have no EEPROM either and even less Flash than ATtiny10's 1 kB. (PIC10F2xx has 0.375 kB or 0.75 kB).

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I noticed both CodeVisonAVR and AVR Studio started to include support for ATtiny10 a month or two ago, so I knew a new ATtiny10 was coming but couldn't find any info about it before now (excpet for that other never old and never released OTP version of ATtiny11).
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Quote:
Welcome to AVR Studio 4.16
==========================

Please see release history for information about earlier releases.

Part support
============

The following new parts have been added to AVR Studio since 4.15:

* ATtiny10
* ATtiny24A
* ATtiny44A
* ATxmega32A4
* ATxmega16A4
* ATmega164PA
* ATmega48PA

http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/cv...

Quote:
CodeVisionAVR Revision History

V2.04.0 Commercial Release

    • fixed: the compiler now generates correct instructions for AVR8L reduced core chips (ATtiny10 and future ATtiny5, ATtiny20 chips) • added the predefined preprocessor macro _AVR8L_CORE_ which specifies that code is generated for the AVR8L reduced core chips
    • added in Project|Configure|C Compiler|Code Generation the option Enable auto Var. Watch in AVR Studio in order to allow watching local automatic variables for AVR8L reduced core chips
    • updated the Help topics: RAM Memory Organization and Register Allocation and Limitations in order to provideadditional information regarding the AVR8L core chips
    • ...

V2.03.9 Commercial Release

    • added support for the ATtiny10 chip in the Compiler, CodeWizardAVR and Programmer • ...
Looks like Atmel have also planned future ATtiny5 and ATtiny20. Both also based on the AVR8L reduced core like ATtiny10.
Given the names, it's likely the ATtiny5 and ATtiny 20 will just be 0.5 kB and 2 kB versions of the 1 kB ATtiny10.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

glitch wrote:
AndersAnd wrote:
Quote:
4-channel, 8-bit Analog to Digital Converter

Who would need a 4-channel ADC on a device with only 4 I/O-pins? With 4 ADC pins there will be no other pins left for outputs, so you would have to combine ADC inputs with outputs.

I think the idea is that it lets you use ANY I/O pin as an ADC input, not necessarily all... but you could. Practically speaking, you're right, the number of applications where you would use them all as ADC's is going to be very limited.

Although we have now passed April 1, it got me thinking of this hilarious old joke by a Signetics engineer that later tunred into an April's Fool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wri...
Quote:
The Signetics original

Out of frustration with the long and seemingly useless chain of approvals required of component specifications, during which no actual checking seemed to occur, an engineer at Signetics once created a specification for a write-only memory and included it with a bunch of other specifications to be approved. This inclusion came to the attention of Signetics management only when regular customers started calling and asking for pricing information. Signetics published a corrected edition of the data book and requested the return of the 'erroneous' ones.

Later, in 1972, Signetics bought a double-page spread in the April issue of Electronics and used the spec as an April Fool's Day joke. Instead of the more conventional characteristic curves, the 25120 "fully encoded, 9046 x N, Random Access, write-only-memory" data sheet included diagrams of "bit capacity vs. Temp.", "Iff vs. Vff", "Number of pins remaining vs. number of socket insertions", and "AQL[1] [2] vs. selling price". The 25120 required a 6.3 VAC Vff (vacuum tube filament) supply, a +10V Vcc (double the Vcc of standard TTL logic of the day), and Vdd of 0V (ie. ground), ±2%.[3]


Datasheet for Signetics 25120 Fully Encoded, 9046 x N, Random Acess Write-Only-Memory http://www.national.com/rap/file...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

So what would be typical uses for such little processor?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

jayjay1974 wrote:
So what would be typical uses for such little processor?

They could be used for many simple tasks. For example timing devices, "glue logic", translating one serial protocl to another, simple ADC conversion etc. Cheap microcontollers canbe used to replace things like 555 timers or logic gates, counters etc.
I think some electical toothbrushes use small PIC processors, this could be a typical place to use a simple microtontoller to tell you when to stop brushing.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

The good news. You can now use LD(S) and ST(S) instructions on flash and it only take 1/2(3?) clk.
This can make small and fast lookup tabels.

Only 8 bit ADC but it still take 13 clk (I think that it's just the normal 10bit where you can't get to the top 2 bit!)

Jens

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Two lower bits are not available I'd say ;)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

sparrow2 wrote:
The good news. You can now use LD(S) and ST(S) instructions on flash and it only take 1/2(3?) clk.
This can make small and fast lookup tabels.

Well you could use STS, but it's not going to do anything. But yes, LDS is the appropriate replacement for LPM in this case. They do mention a clock penalty on access to the memory mapped flash, so I'm not convinced it's going to be any faster.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

LD take 1/2 (so it must be 1 from RAM and 2 from FLASH!)
but the good thing is that you now can use X and Y and not only Z !

It would be nice if this came to the 8K parts.(or any parts where the sum of RAM and FLASH is less than 64K).

like the x mega the LD of -X(Y,Z) take longer than the other loads, so they must have copyed some of the memory handling (it's the other loads that's got faster ;) )

Jens

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

And I have to add that this datasheet is the first for a non x mega where the instruction set show the correct flag handling (so the errors form 1996 is removed! ) Goooood news.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Neet! Ironically, it's just a bit smaller than ATMega32 in the weird ceramic packaging option, and just a milimeter on each side smaller than tiny2313.

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

sparrow2 wrote:
And I have to add that this datasheet is the first for a non x mega where the instruction set show the correct flag handling (so the errors form 1996 is removed! ) Goooood news.

What flag handling errors are you referring to?

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

LD Rd, -Z Load Indirect and Pre-Decrement Z ← Z - 1, Rd ← (Z) None 2/3

:P

RES

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

sparrow2 wrote:
LD take 1/2 (so it must be 1 from RAM and 2 from FLASH!)
but the good thing is that you now can use X and Y and not only Z !

It would be nice if this came to the 8K parts.(or any parts where the sum of RAM and FLASH is less than 64K).

like the x mega the LD of -X(Y,Z) take longer than the other loads, so they must have copyed some of the memory handling (it's the other loads that's got faster ;) )

Jens

And from the "memory programming" part of the datasheet:

Quote:

The NVM has only one read port and, therefore, the next instruction and the data can not be read simultaneously. When the application reads data from NVM locations mapped to the data space, the data is read first before the next instruction is fetched. The CPU execution is here delayed by one system clock cycle.

So it appears to me that the is a hidden 1 cycle penalty, bringing the total 1 higher. Unfortunately the instruction set document has not been updated yet to clarify this.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Great!! Now I can make that two input NAND gate emulator that I've wanted and still have one pin left over :D

Regards,
Steve A.

The Board helps those that help themselves.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm thinking that a cycle here-or-there will be the least of our worries. There is a modest max speed anyway. With limited pin count you probably wouldn't do a MiniDDS anyway. [Hmmm--16-bit PWM output; a pot for frequency and a pot for amplitude and a spare pin for selecting the waveform type ...]

No-one has yet mentioned 16 registers instead of 32? And they could have at least tossed us a bone with a GPIOR or two down low in address space. ;)

Even with RSTDISBL you can still HV program the part (+12V to /RESET). When do you think ATAVRISP2 will support TPI?

"VLM VCC Voltage Level Monitor" with an interrupt to warn of impending power loss (though there is nowhere/no way to save state anyway :( ).

Any guesses on price? Tiny25 is a little less than $1/qty. 100. The mentioned PIC is about $0.80 in 100s, and about $0.50 in 3000 (reel?). So I'd guess the same--about US$0.75/qty. 100. Still not as inexpensive as the old Tiny11.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I got an email from Nu Horizons this morning announcing the part, showing a price of 0.35/10k. [read about the part here first though] Also says samples available now, and production quantities in May.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Also says samples available now, and production quantities in May.

LOL--shall we start a pool? Lessee, a prize to the first person that actually receives a sample (and maybe we should qualify that to be the first one to get a blinky running, which would imply availability of a programmer and a toolchain). And a prize for the closest date to when the Atmel North American Stock Check shows at least one distributor with stock.

I've got to see what I could offer. Perhaps a printed 1997 AVR databook--the kiddies have prbably never >>seen<< a printed databook. ;)

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

dev/eval kit is listed as the STK600 [ATSTK600]
They are selling an $49 adapter for the chip to fit the stk600. [ATSTK600-ATTINY10] (availability unknown)

I'll see if I can find this announcement PDF publically, if so I'll link it here.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well here is the news announcement, that has some of the info.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/corpora...

The PDF I have does some comparisons against the Microchip PIC10F family, and the Freescale RS08KA family. One interesting point is that they don't compare the same specs with both families... Most notable are the lack of Icc comparisons with the PICs

Since most of the text of the PDF is at the link, I'll attach the PDF.

Attachment(s): 

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 09:41 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Perhaps a printed 1997 AVR databook--the kiddies have prbably never >>seen<< a printed databook.
I've HEARD of them... those things that replaced clay tablets? ;-)
Nah, seen lots of em.

I wonder when will it arrive onto the shops. REALLY arrive.

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

dev/eval kit is listed as the STK600 [ATSTK600]
They are selling an $49 adapter for the chip to fit the stk600. [ATSTK600-ATTINY10] (availability unknown)

LOL again--As I recall, the ATAVRISP2 is advertised as "able to program all AVRs".
[edit] In the first page of the user's guide: "The AVRISP mkII combined with AVR Studio® can program all AVR® 8-bit RISC microcontrollers with ISP Interface." But I suppose the "out" is that this is TPI and not ISP?!?

Thanks for the legwork. I don't know what kind of "motes" would be the application arena. We struggled with an app about 5-8 years ago trying to build a 6-month "maintenance needed" timer for under $1 or so in components. We couldn't do it, with CMOS counters or a micro. The next year the Tiny11 came out at like $0.30 or $0.40 in reels, and that would have worked.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 09:42 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Catch the edits... I uploaded the PDF.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

To reiterate, having a few bytes of EEPROM would have been really nice.

Of course, someone could always ask for more, 16-64 bytes seems right. This can store a very long serial number, config data, and maybe a short string.

I suspect that if there's enough demand from user's, we may get this.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

http://www.electronicspecifier.c...

Wow only 2 cent, I didn't knew ATtiny10 would be that cheap. :lol:

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 15, 2009 - 11:58 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Oh FSM! ANOTHER programming interface! First ISP, then JTAG, then DebugWire, then the bizzare thing Xmega use... ARGH!

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

The STUPIDEST thing Atmel has done so far!!!

Will the real ATTiny10 please step forward.

Of course it is supported by my ICE200 or not...

I have purchased a ATTiny10 but does not fit into my board...

I have selected a ATTiny10 in my ASM project but ...

Fortunately it may take as long as the bigger cousin before people start using it.

I can't wait for a model T Ford next.

Data sheet circa 1999AD. Maybe the guy that come up with the name was not born yet. Oh wait! It's a late April's fool's joke.

Attachment(s): 

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Doesn't that same book mention the mega603?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Aww, you are all so newbies! :)

There weren't any ATtiny* or ATmega* parts available during the prehistoric AVR era, were real men were programming in .ASM, using "AVR Studio v1.40" and "AVR Assembler & Simulator v1.21".

There were only four AT90S* processors.

...ducking for cover,
-George

Attachment(s): 

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Oh, I remember those days, as clear as mud! A mere 12 years ago. How time flies when you have waiting for an XMega!

Actually, I can see lots of uses for these puppies!

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

You are totally right, Jim!

Those chips were a riot, back then!
They could be used even today, despite their lacking hardware, compared to the latest AVR lines in terms of operating voltage range & frequency in respect, output drive symmetry, power management and hardware complexity in general.

-George

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Oh Man! Where do I put my By-pass Cap?

JC

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I was referring to the new TIny10 as "one of those puppies".

JC: note that there is only ONE Vcc pin, no AVcc, so there is no special filtering for ADC. That is probably consistent with 8 bit ADC resolution. If you put a bypass cap on the back side of the board, you can drop a via from Vcc and Gnd pins, and be right at each end of the cap. Hard to get shorter leads than that.

SOT23-6, which this appears to be, is relatively easy to solder, as the pins are further apart. It runs from 1.8V to 5.5V which is very nice. If you keep the voltage above 4.5V, it will tick at 12MHz which is nice. Internal 8MHz oscillator is OK, I am a bit disappointed that there is no serial interface as I can see this being a very useful peripheral device (example: incremental encoder interface).

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Finally, I am so glad to see the SOT23-6 chip come out *great cries of happiness*.

Now, the question is what will the costs be... if it's more than the tiny13 then it's a bit of a letdown :\

All in all, from what I've seen on the datasheets it's perfect to replace the tiny13 75% of the products I produce.

Anyone stocking of offering samples yet? Something like this I'd be going through a couple of hundred a month.

Paul.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Oops... Sorry, Jim, for my incorrect interpretation of the comment about "one of those puppies"; I connected "those puppies" to the other ones of "those days, [...] a mere 12 years ago."

JC, In addition to Jim's comments on the power supply line decoupling, I think that in those circumstances the "ADC Noise Reduction" sleep mode would help to eliminate most of the self-interference during any ADC measurement.

-George

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Anyone stocking of offering samples yet?
..right AFTER the Xmega I believe... :?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm happy to see these, assuming they're cheap. I'm a bit surprised about the particular compromises that had to be made - especially the reduced register count. I would expect to lose some features given the small chip size necessary to fit into a SOT-23, but I wouldn't have expected that cutting the lower 16 registers would save much space. What have I missed? Are the opcodes two bits smaller perhaps, reducing the area required for flash? Using GCC will probably be out, but I guess for something with such little memory assembly is the best option anyway.

It's nice to see that Atmel has documented the new programming interface (TPI) - it would have been disappointing if they'd introduced another undocumented one like DebugWIRE.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

mcollas wrote:
Using GCC will probably be out,

Why?
CodeVisionAVR already support ATtiny10 with the AVR8L reduced core.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'd assumed that avr-gcc's register usage would be an issue. For example, r0 as a temp register, r1 as a zero register and pairs down to r9:r8 used for function calls. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and it could already handle the reduced core. Now that I think about it, avr-gcc will probably be updated well before the tiny10 is actually available.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Finally, I am so glad to see the SOT23-6 chip come out

Tell more about the types of apps where you might use this. I could make a function generator, or a small one-output industrial timer with two pots for on/off duration setting, but I'm not really saving anything unless I make a zillion of them. I'd guess it would only be a few cents less than a Tiny25 in low quantities.

Quote:

Anyone stocking of offering samples yet?

I ordered samples through Atmel's Web site yesterday, 15-April. So let's see if I can win my own contest. :lol:

Quote:

(example: incremental encoder interface).

Quadrature input takes two pins. Only one external INT0 on PB2. Could use the analog comparator if there were an internal bandgap, but that is out. So we are left with pin-change which is OK for x2 or x4 quadrature, or can check the edge state.

Now, what kind of "interface" are you going to have? PWM-out?

[I'm having trouble grasping the utility for general work.]

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

mcollas wrote:
I'd assumed that avr-gcc's register usage would be an issue. For example, r0 as a temp register, r1 as a zero register and pairs down to r9:r8 used for function calls. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and it could already handle the reduced core. Now that I think about it, avr-gcc will probably be updated well before the tiny10 is actually available.

You're probably right - the removal of r0 through r15 would likely require significant effort in the GCC back-end, not to mention the work that would be needed in the libraries.

Heck, something as fundamental as initializing global RAM variables in the startup routine would have to be rewritten to remove LPM and add awareness of the progmem-to-data address remapping.

I haven't seen any mention of any reduced core devices in any of the CVS history in avr-libc, and I only found one passing reference to the "new" ATtiny10 in the mailing lists, so at the very least there's no publicly visible evidence of movement on that front yet.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:

Tell more about the types of apps where you might use this. I could make a function generator, or a small one-output industrial timer with two pots for on/off duration setting, but I'm not really saving anything unless I make a zillion of them. I'd guess it would only be a few cents less than a Tiny25 in low quantities.

One application I an see is switch debouncing. Another would be as a push on push off controller using a momentary switch, similar to the ATX power switch on your PC. As a replacement for tiny-logic circuits. 555 replacement. Basically any application where I need something simple, but it isn't cost, or space, effective to throw down a larger micro.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
It's nice to see that Atmel has documented the new programming interface (TPI) - it would have been disappointing if they'd introduced another undocumented one like DebugWIRE.
I'd be happier if they'd stuck with one freakin' interface, instead of having FOUR different ones for one series of ICs (not mentioning the HVPP methods). I hope they'll release a version of dragon software that'll support it.

theusch: Blinkies, single switch on/off stuff, supervisors, watchdogs, and the ton of little stuff you'd normally wouldn't use a processor to do (like simple frequency generation - where you'd put a 555, or some logic or ...)

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I guess I just don't have those kinds of apps. Switch debounce--software on the input pin to the "main" AVR. Frequency generation--only part of a "main" AVR app--do it there. The 16-bit timer is a nice touch, though--but that is about the only thing that beats a Tiny25. I'd have to be making a zillion of them for the cost difference to matter.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

glitch:

Quote:

sparrow2 wrote:
And I have to add that this datasheet is the first for a non x mega where the instruction set show the correct flag handling (so the errors form 1996 is removed! ) Goooood news.

What flag handling errors are you referring to?


all old datasheet tell that ADD change ZCNVH and now it's changed to ZCNVSH

About the old data books does anyone have the 1996 AVR book ?
Thats before the 1200, when it was a 1300 (more eeprom).

I don't know why some RET should take 5 CLK, but I think that is a copy error form the XMEGA datasheet!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I was thinking of a "one-wire" like serial interface that could report on the status of an encoder, such that one could string several together on a single wire to service a couple of encoders. The idea is to off-load state change detection and state management from the host.

Lets see:
Two pins for power and ground.
Two pins for quadrature encoder inputs
One pin for serial I/O.
One analog pin with a resistor divider to set the device bus address (ouch)
or allow only two addresses set by (hi/lo) logic state of this pin

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I like to make my encoders "smart", with "reset count" and similar commands. I guess you could do that over the "1-wire".

Maybe a high-res encoder with very high "tick" rates--but then you ain't gonna get the counts count down the wire anyway.

I still don't see it. Again, compare to Tiny25 with a higher max clock rate. If a zillion of them, maybe. For a few or modest amount I don't have the app(s) in my mind.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Two pins for power and ground.

We had a battery with two plus poles in a thread the other day. You just might get away with only the power pin... :)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Yea, right (with sarcasm)! There is also this bridge in Brooklyn, NY.....

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

sparrow2 wrote:
glitch:
Quote:

sparrow2 wrote:
And I have to add that this datasheet is the first for a non x mega where the instruction set show the correct flag handling (so the errors form 1996 is removed! ) Goooood news.

What flag handling errors are you referring to?


all old datasheet tell that ADD change ZCNVH and now it's changed to ZCNVSH

Ah... well it has been correct in the instruction-set reference since at least REV B (06/99) Hence my confusion. I never look at the tables at the back of the datasheet except to see what instructions are actually supported by a particular model. For an operational reference I'm always referring to the instruction set reference.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
I guess I just don't have those kinds of apps. Switch debounce--software on the input pin to the "main" AVR. Frequency generation--only part of a "main" AVR app--do it there. The 16-bit timer is a nice touch, though--but that is about the only thing that beats a Tiny25. I'd have to be making a zillion of them for the cost difference to matter.

I'm referring to applications where I don't necessarily have a "main" AVR. Or applications where I need to clean up the signal before passing it onto some other logic before it even gets to the host processor.

Sure in a single use/single application I may not save much over a larger AVR. But having this single chip around where I can use it in multiple places for multiple functions on the same board for logic, and circuit replacements, the cost savings begin to add up.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

I'm referring to applications where I don't necessarily have a "main" AVR. Or applications where I need to clean up the signal before passing it onto some other logic before it even gets to the host processor.

I don't have any of those--I'm full-time 100% AVR.

But now that y'all have gotten me going I'm sketching out the "world's smallest function generator". I've got an automatic pencil "lead" container that is 5mm x 10mm x 60mm inside dimension. I'm also sizing up butane lighter cases, or Tictac case, or similar.

So I have my Tiny10 driving a MOSFET off OC0A, going to a 2.5mm or 3.5mm stereo audio jack. Two pots for setting frequency and either amplitude or duty cycle. A power switch, perhaps, or a timeout to go to deep sleep. A button on /RESET -- every reset it changes modes, like a string of holiday lights.

Square wave with no filtering. Some filtering on the PWM for sawtooth, triangle, sine.

Button cell & holder, like 3V/3.6V, for AVR power. To get 5+V signal out, another button cell or provisions for an external applied voltage. TBD to have positive-only signals w.r.t. AVR's Gnd, or bipolar. Perhaps an LED or two multiplexed/charlieplexed with the pots?

Once I've got it what good is it?

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

The Sigi ad showed a RR crossing arm and control box and a young lady who was a tech writer at the time. The box was supposed to be the memory. One pin device that anticipated the Dallas scheme.

The ATTiny10 might be aimed at remote sensor encoding in a very small space.

"It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission" - Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch: Are you saying that there's no application for it, or that you don't have an application for it?

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

daqq--I cannot think of one where it would be advantageous for adding it to one of my AVR apps. Re the "control box" mention above--space (compared to say a Tiny25) is the least of one's worries; the power source is much much bigger. The only feature that it beats the Tiny25 is in 16-bit timer. The Tiny25 kicks it in all other respects. For example, if I'm going to use the single timer on the Tiny10 for PWM then I have to use watchdog interrupt for any other timing.

Only if you have a tiny (pun intended) device and you are making a zillion--say, batches of a "reel" of Tiny10s probably 2k or 3k--then the price may be 50% or 75% of the Tiny25.

What app would you propose where the Tiny10 is "better" than the Tiny25? There was the on/off switch above; that would be nice. How are you going to power it (when the device is "off"? A button cell I suppose.
http://www.goldmine-elec-product...
So if you do that for low-volume the price isn't going to matter much. Size? 3mm x 3mm tip-to-tip for the SOT23. 5mm x 8mm for the Tiny25 in SOIC.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

How about a "personal intimate care" product? ;)
http://www.goldmine-elec-product...
http://www.goldmine-elec-product...

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
There was the on/off switch above; that would be nice. How are you going to power it (when the device is "off"? A button cell I suppose.

The standby supply of course. Whatever that might entail... a simple parasitic supply off of a raw AC or DC input, a coin-cell, or even a supercap would work.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

The value of the ATtiny10 will depend on how expensive that it is. And how much it costs for a programmer to handle the new code-writing algorythm. Hopefully, the ATtiny10 will be available in a DIP package. I have high hopes for cheap and small microcontrollers.

I remember reading the write up of the Write-Only Memory as an electronics student. I was very confused as I was not able at that time to recognize a hoax.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Price is already announced at $0.35 in 10K quantities. Only announced package is SOT23-6.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I will not look at this as a micro, but more like a component that can replace some opamp,comperators,logic,reset chip etc.
and I only have to stock one part.

Jens

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

glitch wrote:
Price is already announced at $0.35 in 10K quantities. Only announced package is SOT23-6.

Anywhere to check the 10k price for ATtiny13A and ATtiny25 to compare with ATtiny10 prices?
I believe ATtiny13A is the cheapest AVR with 6 I/O-pins and ATtiny25 the second cheapest.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
Size? 3mm x 3mm tip-to-tip for the SOT23. 5mm x 8mm for the Tiny25 in SOIC.

AVR's with 6 I/O pins like ATtiny13A and ATtiny25/45/85 are also available in MLF-10 packages. MLF-10 pratically has the same small external dimensions as SOT23-6 if you include the pin leads.

10-pin MLF: 3 x 3 mm (nom) (has no external leads)
6-pin SOT-23: 2.9 x 2.8 mm (nom) (including leads)

The MLF-10 package is max 1 mm high while the SOT23 package is max 1.45 mm high.

So the reason to come out with this new ATtiny10 must be to cut price so that they can compete with PIC10F2xx, and even be fully pin-compatible to PIC10F2xx to make it easier to steal exsisting PIC10F2xx customers, as they do no have to make a new PCB and can always go back to using PIC again for one reason or another.
It's not to get a smaller package, as ATtiny already offer MLF-10 pacakges.

As mentioned the ATtiny10 is fully pin-compatible with PIC10F2xx and Atmel also made sure to point this out in their marketing material.
Atmel even introduced the new 3-pin Tiny Programming Interface (TPI) for ATtiny10 that's pin-comapatible with PIC10F2xx's 3-pin ICSP-programming interface.
So there's no question they are targeting exsisting PIC10F2xx customers with ATtiny10 as customers can switch to ATtiny10 without making a new PCB revision, even if they also have an ICSP-connector at the PCB.
So here's your answer why Atmel decided to come out with the new 3-pin TPI programming interface for ATtiny10. It's no coincidence Atmel made ATtiny10 fully pin-compatible with PIC10F2xx - even down to the same pin connections for serial programming.

3-pin serial programming interface (6-pin SOT-23 package) for PIC10F2xx ICSP and ATtiny10 TPI:
Pin 1: Data
Pin 3: Clock
Pin 6: Program voltage/enable
Pin 2: GND
Pin 5: VCC

Attachment(s): 

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Hmmm,

I think Atmel is walking into a ambush with this micro. :?
Look at this patent Microchip have:

[url]
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo....
[/url]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
I think Atmel is walking into a ambush with this micro.

Nope, they'll be fine.

This type of patent is easily broken. In fact, nearly all microprocessors now days implement multiple funtions for their I/O (including Atmel). The patent describes the use of a control register with multiple function blocks to change pin functions. The easy way to break this patent is to have multiple control registers, or a control register for each function block.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

That patent isn't relevant to PIC10s or ATtiny10s. I think it refers to devices like the latest 16-bit PICs which have a "Peripheral Pin Select" capability, allowing peripheral I/Os like ADC inputs to be assigned to any pin:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2529&param=en531603

It can be very useful.

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I like the Von-Neuman architecture of the ATtiny10 (code space mapped into data space).
I hope, that also all other ATtiny/ATmega would be improved in this way.
Since then we can forget the nightmare of PROGMEM on AVR-GCC.

Peter

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

sparrow2 wrote:
About the old data books does anyone have the 1996 AVR book ?
Thats before the 1200, when it was a 1300 (more eeprom).

Never head of AT90S1300. Wasn't AT90S1200 the first AVR to be released?
Was AT90S1300 just a paper release?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

ok people, great news. I'm sur you all know what does that mean to an avrfreak( samples,samples and samples). those who can get samples very fast, test the new kid and tell us more.

thanks for updating us.

Analog + Digital= 21 century technology and beyond. digital is easy, analog is professional!!!!!!!!!!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

those who can get samples very fast, test the new kid and tell us more.

Why? Are you expecting it to do something it doesn't already say on the tin? (or, rather, in this case in the datasheet)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

you know when something is new usually there are lot of praises.when we start using it we will be able to tell its advantages and disadvantages. really its not about proving the datasheet wrong or right.

Analog + Digital= 21 century technology and beyond. digital is easy, analog is professional!!!!!!!!!!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

An AVR is an AVR is an AVR. On the whole the UARTs and the SPIs and and I2C's. If Atmel output a new combination of core+support blocks then would anyone expect those things to work in some different way? IN fact the hope would be that it would work the same as all the existing devices to make it easier to port between devices.

Now it's true that this one has some new goodies not seen on previous chips (like a crippled 16 register core, run time clock selection, "easier" access to flash data) so I guess there are new things to be explored but even without the chip we can all see exactly how those things work (assuming they DO work as the datasheet promises)

So the most exciting thing (perhaps as we've all found with Xmega too) is access to the datasheet not the silicon itself.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

an AVR is an AVR for sure. For us to understand the new chip is reading the datasheet as well as having the in hand( for some of us we learn better while doing it).

Analog + Digital= 21 century technology and beyond. digital is easy, analog is professional!!!!!!!!!!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

for some of us we learn better while doing it

But surely that'd only be the case if it did something that wasn't documented in the datasheet? In the case of Atmel AVR this would appear to be a pretty rare occurence.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

my point is let explore the chip. i know its packed with a lot of goodies.

Analog + Digital= 21 century technology and beyond. digital is easy, analog is professional!!!!!!!!!!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

i know its packed with a lot of goodies.

[editorial] It is actually "packed" with very little except limitations.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
Quote:

i know its packed with a lot of goodies.

[editorial] It is actually "packed" with very little except limitations.

Lee

I guess we know who the optimist and who the pessimist in the crowd are. ;)

So tell me, is that cup half empty, or half full? :P

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

glitch wrote:
So tell me, is that cup half empty, or half full? :P
Is register set on tiny10 half empty or half full? ;)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Is register set on tiny10 half empty or half full?

Half-arsed?

(I'm not sure if that colloquialism is England only or whether it travels?)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

clawson wrote:
Quote:

Is register set on tiny10 half empty or half full?

Half-arsed?

(I'm not sure if that colloquialism is England only or whether it travels?)

LOL... half-arsed works here... at least in Canada.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

So tell me, is that cup half empty, or half full?

The cup is too big. (or "too small" in this case)

Unless you are doing a kazillion of extremely cheap and extremely simple thingies (like these air-freshener thingies?) I see no great advantage(s).

The price in a kazillion may (or may not) be about half that of a Tiny25, and in all probability will compare with the PIC and the Freescale.

But how many of us will do a kazillion of anything?

Tinyness? Again, rarely a problem unless you are making "motes". And how many of us are in that baliwick? (And the ones I have looked at have like a Mega88 and commo etc.--more power.)

Now, let's get on to the great internal features. Every mini-generation of AVR has new toyz, e.g. write to PINx to toggle. Memory-mapped flash? Interesting and maybe saves a couple of cycles dumping bitmaps to a graphics display. With a tiny flash & no chance for any bulk peripherals the only app I can think of is mini-DDS waveform generation. Nothing to get excited about.

No parameter storage? Big minus to me.

No low registers? OK; but then give me a GPIOR0 down low.

The cup is cracked. :twisted: There must be a reason that Atmel decided to put the effort into creating a PIC10F2-killer. I wonder what those apps are. Or is it just to complete the product line for competitive purposes?

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

There must be a reason that Atmel decided to put the effort into creating a PIC10F2-killer.

Dont rule out the possibility that Atmel simply got a request for a gazillion of T10s from someone using the P10F2s today.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Imho, the main advantage of tiny10/pic10 is that it doesn't look like a microcontroller. Funny way to confuse smb who wants to understand what your device is consist of.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Atmel simply got a request for a gazillion of T10s

Quote:

I wonder what those apps are.

I am still trying to envision these apps. It's gotta be like a consumer product like those plug-in air fresheners, right?

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Someday when I have "free time", I will make the ATiny10 do a pong game. It's the perfect chip to squeeze like that to see if it can actually be done. I say, YES it can.. including sound, and with nothing connected but a few resistors.

The Goal...
- A Pong style game that connects to any TV.
- Stable NTSC video with basic sound
- 2 colors will be possible at 14.318 MHz
- 1 Player "paddle" style joystick

Next time I order from Digikey, I will get a few to mess around with.

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

Last Edited: Wed. Apr 22, 2009 - 08:24 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

One inspiration for our imagination here is to think of applications with just one push button (or other input) controlling "one thing", eg: Electric toothbrushes? Remotes for car locks? LED Torches or LED bike lights? Water boilers? Dimmers? Thermostats on radiators? Door bells? Fan controllers? ...

Aside, somewhat: Right now I need a small AVR with a lot of flash for a prank thing I will most probaly never build (but I am giggling several times every day when I am in the situation where it would fit). One input and one output would do, but I need maybe 64 K flash.. A Mega/Tiny bastard, say ATtega64 or maybe ATminy128. As it's a one-or-few-off, if I ever do it it will prolly end up with a mega48/88/168, as those are what I have at home most often, and a memory card of some sort.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
One analog pin with a resistor divider to set the device bus address (ouch)

That IS doable, if you limit yourself to using the first 3 or 4 MSBs, or just use that extra pin as a chip select, kinda defeats the purpose of one-wire, but it's an option.

I could have used one of these in a project a few months ago, granted I wouldn't have two extra pins to debug with, but ohwell.

As far as hobbyist applications go, it really is a bit limited, except maybe to off load simple, but processor intensive tasks (like the encoders or devices that require polling). I kinda doubt that I'll be using it in any of my projects.

Bear in mind, AVRfreaks are probably not Atmel's biggest customer. I know that this community is very important to support and promote their products, but we are not the reason they do business.

Free cookie to the first guy to squeeze USB 1.1 out of one of these!

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

One inspiration for our imagination here is to think of applications with just one push button (or other input) controlling "one thing", eg: Electric toothbrushes? Remotes for car locks? LED Torches or LED bike lights? Water boilers? Dimmers? Thermostats on radiators? Door bells? Fan controllers? ...

Not bad. Most/all size matters. Most/all high-volume so cost matters.

Quote:

Someday when I have "free time", I will make the ATiny10 do a pong game. It's the perfect chip to squeeze like that to see if it can actually be done. I say, YES it can.. including sound, and with nothing connected but a few resistors.

The Goal...
- A Pong style game that connects to any TV.
- Stable NTSC video with basic sound
- 2 colors will be possible at 14.318 MHz
- 1 Player "paddle" style joystick


If anyone can do that, you can. No external components? (where a bigger AVR might be substituted)

Quote:
Next time I order from Digikey, I will get a few ...

... if the next time you order from DigiKey is next year.

Quote:
- 2 colors will be possible at 14.318 MHz

Quote:
• Speed Grade
– 0 - 4 MHz @ 1.8 - 5.5V
– 0 - 8 MHz @ 2.7 - 5.5V
– 0 - 12 MHz @ 4.5 - 5.5V

Speed limits are advisory. :lol: (Compare to Tiny25 where you can get that MHz at the supply voltage of a button cell. 5V of supply will dwarf (pun intended) any size advantages and cost advantages.)

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Bummer, next year before I can get an AT10!

Oh well, maybe I will try it with the ATiny13 first, as Digikey has those. As long as I keep the ATiny10 memory size in mind, it will port 100% later. I guess to be fair and keep with the device constraints, overclocking should be avoided. The internal 8Mhz clock could still push out a 200x200 monochrome video signal though, not mention sparing up another IO pin to make it a 2 player game!

Thanks, "theusch"!

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I still think it is an April's fool, the data sheet clearly show the T10 to be an 8 pin device not 6pin. :roll:

Attachment(s): 

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

One could always reduce the pin count of a larger AVR like this...


A home brew 4-pin AVR.

... there may be IO contention though!

Brad

I Like to Build Stuff : http://www.AtomicZombie.com

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I think that all things considered, I would have rather seen the return of the $0.25 AVR price point(any version, any package; to replace the ATtiny11) than the new tiny package...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I think a two pin package could have some uses, like a floating point processor for a basic stamp :lol:

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Microchip Technology Celebrates 5-Year Anniversary of PIC10F 8-bit Microcontrollers (MCUs)
Low-Cost 8-bit MCUs Available in SOT-23 and 2 mm x 3 mm DFN Packages; Continue to Open Doors to Innovative Uses for MCUs
CHANDLER, Ariz., April 15, 2009 [NASDAQ: MCHP]
http://www.microchip.com/stellen...

Quote:
These MCUs are well suited for a wide variety of applications, such as:
disposable devices (e.g. pregnancy testers, glucose meters, dialysis monitors and drug testers);
logic control (e.g. passive discrete-logic functions such as delays, smart gates, signal conditioning, simple state machines and encoders/decoders);
mechatronics (e.g. smart switches, mode selectors, remote I/Os, timers and LED flashers);
electronic glue (e.g. bug fixes for ASICs or PCBs, signal inversion, timing delays, feature upgrades and late-stage changes).

No sure if it's a coincidence or not, but the Atmel ATtiny10 press release was published April 15, 2009 - the very same day Microchip announced the 5-Year Anniversary of PIC10F: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/corpora...

AndersAnd wrote:
glitch wrote:
Price is already announced at $0.35 in 10K quantities. Only announced package is SOT23-6.

Anywhere to check the 10k price for ATtiny13A and ATtiny25 to compare with ATtiny10 prices?
I believe ATtiny13A is the cheapest AVR with 6 I/O-pins and ATtiny25 the second cheapest.

10k prices for the cheapest PIC10F (which is PIC10F200T-I/OT):
Quote:
All six PIC10F family members feature options with comparators and ADCs, as well as purely digital versions; and all can be purchased today at http://www.microchipdirect.com, starting at $0.29 each in 10,000-unit quantities.

If you check the Business Account Pricing for +5000 devices of PIC10F200T-I/OT at http://www.microchipdirect.com then the price is $0.41, so I don't know if the claimed $0.29 each in 10,000-unit quantities is true.

Last Edited: Tue. Apr 28, 2009 - 03:49 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm using a PIC10F for sequencing power supplies.

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AndersAnd wrote:
If you check the Business Account Pricing for +5000 devices of PIC10F200T-I/OT at http://www.microchipdirect.com then the price is $0.41, so I don't know if the claimed $0.29 each in 10,000-unit quantities is true.

$0.34 each for 3000 pieces (full reels) at Digikey...
I guess at 10k pieces, you have to start "negotiating."

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Has anyone seen programmers that support the ATtiny10 ? Studio 4 supports it, but says to use the STK600. The STK600 documentation does not show support for the '10. I've posed the question to the FAE if the AVRDragon would support it using an adapter.

No answer yet.
Samples promised next week, programmer is TBD...

$0.29 per 100K units is real.

BB

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Has anyone seen programmers that support the ATtiny10 ? Studio 4 supports it, but says to use the STK600. The STK600 documentation does not show support for the '10.

The "other thread" has some info on this.
https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...
Post what you find out. ;) Inquiring minds want to know.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

bb56 wrote:
$0.29 per 100K units is real.

You did mean 10k right?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AndersAnd wrote:
bb56 wrote:
$0.29 per 100K units is real.

You did mean 10k right?

Quote I received was 100,000 - $0.29. 50,000 - $0.315

I think the AFE is stumped on the programmer question... :?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

According to Atmel

Quote:
Volume price for 10k units is $0.35.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

bb56 wrote:
AndersAnd wrote:
bb56 wrote:
$0.29 per 100K units is real.

You did mean 10k right?

Quote I received was 100,000 - $0.29. 50,000 - $0.315


Oh I see so you are talking about the ATtiny10 pricing.
I mentioned earlier in this topic that the claimed 10k pricing for the cheapest PIC (PIC10F200T-I/OT) is $0.29, so I just assumed you were also talking about this PIC when you mentioned the same price of $0.29.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Many have been questioning if Atmel already had a big customer who have requested them to make a 6-pin AVR pin compatible to PIC10F2xx. It turns out that customer might be Atmel themselves for their newly aquired Quantum Research QTouch ICs.

I Found this article with an interesting view of why Atmel comes out with a 6-pin AVR pin compatiple to PIC10F2xx.
QT100 is based on a PIC MCU and now Atmel has replaced QT100 with QT100A that and it's very likely the QT100A is in fact a pre-programmed ATtiny10.
Maybe the first ATtiny10 based products are already in the market in the form of Atmel QTouch QT100A.
http://www.atmel.com/pressroom/d...

Quote:
Six-pin microcontroller runs at up to 12 Mips

Atmel has introduced a 6-pin microcontroller.
The 8bit AVR ATtiny10 has 1kbyte of flash and 32byte of SRAM in a 2x3mm SOT-23 package.
Performance is claimed to be up to 12Mips, and peripherals include an 8bit ADC, an analogue comparator, and a 16-bit timer with PWM.
“The 16-bit timer counter can run two phase and frequency correct PWM outputs,” said Atmel director of product marketing Jukka Eskelinen. “If your
application needs more processing power, lower current consumption, or if you just want a change the ATtiny10 is your solution.”
Atmel is almost five years behind Microchip in offering a 6-pin microcontroller, and has chosen the same pin pattern as Microchip’s PIC10F2xx offerings.
It is possible that Atmel’s acquisition of Hampshire-based touch control firm Quantum Research has something to do with the new product.
Quantum’s chips were re-badged, pre-programmed microcontrollers, initially from Microchip. Its QT100 single channel touch controller is likely based on a member of the PIC12F series.
Quantum appears to have been migrating to Atmel AVR processors even before the buy-out and it is l ikely that Atmel had to develop a 6-pin microcontroller to allow an AVR-based replacement for the QT100 to be introduced - which is now available as the QT100A.
With a 6-pin SOT-23 sized microcontroller already in production for the QT100 replacement, Atmel may have released a user-programmable version as a lowcost way to go head to head with the PIC10Fxx series.

Samples of the ATtiny10 are available now www.atmel.com/tinyAVR

QT100: Single-Channel Touch Sensor IC http://www.qprox.com/products/pa...

QT100A: New Single-Channel Touch Sensor IC http://www.qprox.com/products/Pa...

I wonder if a QT100A (A for AVR?) is in fact just an ATTiny10 and you can reprogram it to use it as a standard ATtiny10. This seems very likely, although the QT100A could also be a custom non re-programmable version of ATtiny10.
The QT100A is already for sale at places like Digi-Key. So if someone has some QT100A at hand they could try to program it as an ATtiny10 - if they can figure out how to program it with the STK600 that is supposed to support programming of QT100A.

The QT100 and QT100A has the same pinouts as PIC10F2xx and ATtiny10:

Some other larger QTouch ICs also happens to have the same pinouts as some AVRs.
E.g. QT1060 has the same pinouts as the 28-pin MLF versions of ATtiny/ATmega 48/88/168/328
Things like GND, VCC, /Reset and I²C are located at the same pins.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AndersAnd wrote:
http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/cv...
Quote:
CodeVisionAVR Revision History

V2.04.0 Commercial Release

    � fixed: the compiler now generates correct instructions for AVR8L reduced core chips (ATtiny10 and future ATtiny5, ATtiny20 chips) � added the predefined preprocessor macro _AVR8L_CORE_ which specifies that code is generated for the AVR8L reduced core chips
    � added in Project|Configure|C Compiler|Code Generation the option Enable auto Var. Watch in AVR Studio in order to allow watching local automatic variables for AVR8L reduced core chips
    � updated the Help topics: RAM Memory Organization and Register Allocation and Limitations in order to provideadditional information regarding the AVR8L core chips
    � ...

V2.03.9 Commercial Release

    � added support for the ATtiny10 chip in the Compiler, CodeWizardAVR and Programmer � ...
Looks like Atmel have also planned future ATtiny5 and ATtiny20. Both also based on the AVR8L reduced core like ATtiny10.
Given the names, it's likely the ATtiny5 and ATtiny 20 will just be 0.5 kB and 2 kB versions of the 1 kB ATtiny10.

Release notes AVR Studio 4.17 (b666) http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Quote:
Welcome to AVR Studio 4.17 (07/2009)

Part support

The following (19) new parts have been added to AVR Studio since 4.16 SP1:

- ATtiny4, ATtiny5, ATtiny9, ATtiny87, ATtiny261A, ATtiny861A, ATtiny2313A, ATtiny4313,
ATmega644PA, ATmega16HVB, ATmega16M1, ATmega64M1, ATmega64C1, ATmega8U2, ATmega16U2,
ATmega32U2, ATxmega192D3, AT90SCR100, ATmega128RFA1

I guess ATtiny4, ATtiny5 and ATtiny9 will be cheaper versions of ATtiny10. Maybe without ADC and with less memory.

Another new ATtiny is ATtiny4313, I'm sure this is just a 4kB version of ATtiny2313.

I read somewhere on the internet (can't find it again) that ATmega128RFA1 is a new 2-in-1 chip integration with one of Atmel's wireless frontends on-chip.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Key Parameters:
Flash (Kbytes) 1
SRAM (Bytes) 32

does this mean we only get 32 Bytes to put variables into? Or is this the number of work registers?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

A browse of the data sheet should be interesting and educating for you, Nephazz. :wink:

Generally you can put variables into both work registers and SRAM, so your question is a little odd.

Anyhow, the ATtiny10 is a somewhat odd creature when it comes to AVRs: It has 16 work registers rather than the usual 32 (R16..R31). In addition to that it has 32 bytes of SRAM.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Anyhow, the ATtiny10 is a somewhat odd creature when it comes to AVRs: It has 16 work registers rather than the usual 32 (R16..R31). In addition to that it has 32 bytes of SRAM.

Nephazz, If you want to "play" then Simulator V2 in 4.17RC2 includes Tiny's 4, 5, 9 and 10. In picking a Tiny4 for simulation the "memory window" admits to 32 bytes of SRAM addressed 0x40..0x5F

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

clawson wrote:
Nephazz, If you want to "play" then Simulator V2 in 4.17RC2...

Atmel has just released the final build of AVR Studio 4.17 (build 666 :twisted:) 3 days ago, so no reason to go to Atmel's beta SW website to download 4.17RC2 (build665) - unless you fear the number 666.

Software AVR Studio 4.17 (build 666) 7/28/2009 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general...

Release notes AVR Studio 4.17 (b666) 7/28/2009 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I only ever download from the beta_ware page as it does not require re-registration. A bit of a shame that they haven't replaced RC2 there with the "gold" version.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Related to the original thread title, I received notice today of CodeVision support for the ATTINY5. curious, a Google search uncovered this page with mentions of Tiny4 and Tiny9 among others:
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/st...|0&action=products&cat=1&catalogId=500201&cutTape=&inStock=&langId=-1&proto=&rohs=&sel=M&storeId=500201&topSellers=

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

ATtiny4, 5, 9 and 10 are also listed at Mouser: http://www.mouser.com/Search/Ref...

Quote:
ATTINY4-TSHR Atmel Microcontrollers - AVR 512B FLASH 32B SRAM TIMER 12MHz
ATTINY5-TSHR Atmel Microcontrollers - AVR 512B FLASH 32B SRAM ADC 12MHz TIMER
ATTINY9-TSHR Atmel Microcontrollers - AVR 1KB FLASH 32B SRAM ADC TIMER 12MHz

Not sure what the difference between ATtiny9 and ATtiny10 is if ATtiny9 also has ADC like Mouser writes. I might just be a copy/past error though.
ATtiny4 looks like an ATtiny5 without ADC.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
It has 16 work registers rather than the usual 32 (R16..R31). In addition to that it has 32 bytes of SRAM.

wow, that's spartan

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

It's perfectly fine for the applications the MCUs are intended for.

Even then, 16 general purpose working registers is still a lot to work with. Not too long ago processors didn't have that much, required to shuffle everything to an accumulator and instructions only worked on specific registers.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

jayjay1974 wrote:
It's perfectly fine for the applications the MCUs are intended for.

Even then, 16 general purpose working registers is still a lot to work with. Not too long ago processors didn't have that much, required to shuffle everything to an accumulator and instructions only worked on specific registers.

Yeah, like ix86, freescale HCxx, and I think PICs are that way too.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Nephazz wrote:
wow, that's spartan

No, Spartan is an FPGA family made by Xilinx: http://www.xilinx.com/products/s...

Sorry couldn't help it.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

we'r both wrong. He knows what spartan is! click me

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Doc8127 rev B has been issued, titled as ATtiny4/5/9/10 now.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=4558

Table 2-1. Differences between ATtiny4, ATtiny5, ATtiny9 and ATtiny10

Device    Flash      ADC    Signature
------    -----      ---    ---------
ATtiny4   512 bytes  No     0x1E 0x8F 0x0A
ATtiny5   512 bytes  Yes    0x1E 0x8F 0x09
ATtiny9  1024 bytes  No     0x1E 0x90 0x08
ATtiny10 1024 bytes  Yes    0x1E 0x90 0x03

Stan

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AndersAnd wrote:
Looks like Atmel have also planned future ATtiny5 and ATtiny20. Both also based on the AVR8L reduced core like ATtiny10.
Given the names, it's likely the ATtiny5 and ATtiny 20 will just be 0.5 kB and 2 kB versions of the 1 kB ATtiny10.

The datasheet rev. A for ATTtiny20 has just been released.
It's not just a 2 kB version of ATtiny10, but the first 14-pin AVR with TPI-interface and the AVR8L reduced core.

Datasheet - ATtiny20 Preliminary Summary - Rev. A - 2010-03-09 -
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general...

Datasheet - ATtiny20 Preliminary - Rev. A - 2010-03-09 -
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

The schematic for the STK600-ATtiny10 adapter (+ schematics for several other STK600 adapters) has finally been published:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

It took a little while, but the free cookie goes to CPLDCPU!

http://hackaday.com/2014/03/20/u...

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
It took a little while
4 years! :-)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Slow Poke ;)

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

When I was a young student, long before the internet or even BBS call-lines, I studied the various data books that could be found in electronic parts shops and libraries.
I remember coming across the Write-Only memory entry in a old well-worn data book. I remember studying it for a very long time, puzzling over the strange numbers, while trying to think of an application that could possibly use such a device.
It never occurred to me until much later that this could be a parody.
The Signetics DataBook also had RAM sections; Fast RAM ICs; and Damn-Fast RAM devices.

I have told people that I've managed to come into possession of a secret Japanese prototype that translates spoken English into Japanese in real-time without any delays. The user just points the remote at the speaker and presses the button. The device creates a 'sonic space' around the user where he can now hear the English speaker speaking in Japanese.
I give the remote to the Doubting Thomas and tell him to just point and press while I'm speaking. When he presses, I switch in mid-sentence to the few rusty old Japanese phrases that I learned long ago in college.
Sometimes their mouths just drop at this miraculous secret advanced technology!