FREE Ethernet stack?

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 03:19 PM
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Hi guys,
we're making an online beer-vending machine for student's community thing... Users will swipe their magnetic card, and if beer is available, their account status will be checked through a simple http request, and a beer is released. Want another, swipe again.

So I guess the most complex part, until we know how the on-board controller of all the vending mechanisms work, will the http client with ethernet interface.

Does anybody have a good recommendation?
The AVRnet board?

Best regards;
Eivind

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AVR Microcontrollers, megaAVR and tinyAVR
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clawson
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Posted by clawson: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 03:23 PM
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Ethernut / NutOS?

(nice application by the way!)

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patchell
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Posted by patchell: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 03:39 PM
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Quote:

Ethernut / NutOS?

(nice application by the way!)

I will second that. Very easy to use. I had no prior experience with ethernet applications, and I was able to get an FTP client and an HTTP server running (at the same time) using Ethernut/ NutOS.

-Jim
http://www.noniandjim.com
Analog and Digital Electronics
Music Synthesizers

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 04:33 PM
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For AVR I assume?

Ethernut would probably be good... we are using it now in an ARM application. It has some problems with the ARM port, BUT the API and interface is very nice!

So if you are using an AVR Ethernut would be a good way to go...

-Colin

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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EW
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Posted by EW: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 07:42 PM
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eivind wrote:

So I guess the most complex part, until we know how the on-board controller of all the vending mechanisms work, will the http client with ethernet interface.

Hi Eivind,

Again, I would recommend Ethernut. I can hook you up with people who are using it. Colin could also help you out too. I'll talk to you more about it next week. ;)

Eric

Eric Weddington
www.linkedin.com/in/ericweddington/

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theusch
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Posted by theusch: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 08:51 PM
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AT91SAM7X, and/or AT91SAM7X-EK? I don't know if the stack(s) provided in the sample software would meet your needs.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Wed. Jan 7, 2009 - 11:51 PM
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Or if you want to go high-power of course the lovely AVR32 devices... the UC3A software framework gives you FreeRTOS with some embedded webserver examples!

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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curtvm
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Posted by curtvm: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 01:48 AM
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I have no experience with this, but some of these modules look interesting-
http://www.ewiznet.com/index.php
(I think circuit cellar had a contest for wiznet, so more info/ideas may be found on their contest web page)

So I guess the 'stack' is in hardware, but the application (http client) will still need to be done.

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ce
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Posted by ce: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 07:56 AM
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I would also recommend Ethernut. I did some tests with it and it seems to work fine. The API and its documentation is good.
http://www.ethernut.de/

An alternative might be uIP. It works together with FreeRTOS. A colleague of mine is using it.
http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/index.php/Main_Page

By the way: Do you need some guys for a system test? This could be a nice job...:lol:

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 01:13 PM
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c_oflynn wrote:
For AVR I assume?

:roll:

Ethernut could be a good choice.
I strongly prefer running off a regular 8-bit AVR, like the mega128, since I am fairly comfortable with programming those.

But remember: I don't need a server. Just an http client, capable of reading http feedback too, and with a few pins to spare for AOB.

ANyway, thanks for all your replies, and keep them coming if you have more to add.

@ Eric: we can have a chat next week :)

Cheers;
Eivind

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Paddy
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Posted by Paddy: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 02:08 PM
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I never used one of these solutions but you could also checkout :
-arduino ethernet shield
-electronics and software from www.tuxgraphics.com
-XPort (www.lantronix.com)

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ArnoldB
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Posted by ArnoldB: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 02:21 PM
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The tuxgraphics might be out, because it use a MAC and PHYs chip from that other company :-)

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theusch
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Posted by theusch: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 02:31 PM
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Quote:

But remember: I don't need a server.

A server is the easiest, isn't it? Only having to handle HTML page "templates" and maybe fill in a few blanks. But that doesn't sound like what you need in this app.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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c_oflynn
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Posted by c_oflynn: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 03:06 PM
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Hi,

Quote:
But remember: I don't need a server.

Ohhhhhhh... I misunderstood you sorry! I guess the word 'CLIENT' in the OP wasn't enough for me ;-)

In that case you really just need TCP support, and can probably make it by with just the few packets you'll need to send.

An OS like Contiki actually has a webbrowser example too - but it's probably more than you need!

-Colin

VA3 YHZ - http://www.newae.com

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ninevoltz9
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Posted by ninevoltz9: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 03:26 PM
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You could try the uIP port for AVR here:
http://www.harbaum.org/till/spi2...

There's a HTTP client in the code located there.

Important note from that site:

Quote:
Only the webserver application of uip has been ported and tested up to now. Other applications like the telnetd may need further porting to be usable on the AVR. The major uip changes were kept in a seperate avr directory.

I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

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jayjay1974
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Posted by jayjay1974: Thu. Jan 8, 2009 - 05:41 PM
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uIP is very slow for transmission as it supports only one outstanding fragment at a time.

lwIP by the same author is bigger but is a fuller implementation.

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Fri. Jan 9, 2009 - 09:22 AM
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c_oflynn wrote:
Hi,
In that case you really just need TCP support, and can probably make it by with just the few packets you'll need to send.

Yes, I only need to TCP-connect to port 80, push a GET string, and read the response.
But I also need a serial connection to the magnetic card reader, so I am beginning to think that the EtherNut is not such a bad idea, with all the connectors already in place, and loads of software to boot.

E.

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Bingo600
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Posted by Bingo600: Fri. Jan 9, 2009 - 08:12 PM
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Ethernut is nice , but this one is also nice for the price

Kit
http://www.pollin.de/shop/detail...

Assembled
http://www.pollin.de/shop/detail...

Software here (http server)(uses uIP stack though) , but you could make a client easy. And even turn on some relays , and measure the fridge temperature with a DS1820.
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/a...

From this german thread
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/t...

I seem to remember that the sw can be made for a Mega644 (bigger ip mtu size) also , i guess you can manage to get one :-)

/Bingo

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 07:55 AM
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@Bingo: That one has a very nice price! Did you buy it? I didn't like this post:

Quote:
"Hallo?!? Das Ding ist von Pollin. Erwartet also nicht dass es
reibungslos funktioniert..."

...Are these Pollin-things not always reliable?

I am currently on the EtherNut track, as I borrowed a board from a colleague. So far, I've managed to build the tools, only to have the make utility crash with an initialization error msg from Windows :)

Cheers;
Eivind

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zainka
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Posted by zainka: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 09:31 AM
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A little bit offtopic this since you were asking for a free solution (ain't we all).. But just to also have mentioned Wiznet I will do it now since I think they have a very good and fun solution. Wiznet uses a hardwired stack up to TCP/UDP, or internet on chip, as their call their solution. see WizNet.

I mention them as I remembered Wiznet and Atmel once had a business relationship and even talked about merging a mega core with wiznet. Wiznet did also release a few dev. board using mega128. I guess this relation has ended since you now are asking for a fully sw stack solution. It would be fun if you could share some light on this aswell since, well I guess you know something about it in your position :) ... xmega with wiznet would be fun i think...

I also think this solution would be faster than a fully sw based one, but maybe more vulnerable to stack bugs. But wiznet has shown to be pretty stable though. Is there any performance test that compare the different solutions already mentioned in here?

By the way, a few of those magnetic cards filled with beers would be nice. Could you provide some samples for free? ;)

Regards
Vidar (Z)

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"The fool wonders, the wise man asks"

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 12:52 PM
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Sure, I can arrange a few, but remember: there's not much beer in each!

Anyway, I'm having some problems, apprently associated with the GNU toolchain from the WinAVR distribution (20081205): All the tools crash with a windows error msg when trying to run, even the avr-gcc --version.

I thought my windows installation could have some launcher problems with the cmd shell, but Other cmd .exe files cause no problems. I even tried adding a .bat wrapper...nope.

Err msg attached. If this turns into a gcc toolchain thing, I'll move it to the appropriate forum.

Tips, anyone?
Eivind

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Image icon apperror.jpg

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clawson
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Posted by clawson: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 01:02 PM
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Eivind,

If you drop to a command prompt (and assuming a Makefile exists - if not use Mfile to create one) what happens if you simply "make"

Cliff

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EW
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Posted by EW: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 01:08 PM
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Eivind gets the same error whether it's 'make', 'avr-gcc', or other executable. I can't reproduce the problem on my machine.

Eric Weddington
www.linkedin.com/in/ericweddington/

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clawson
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Posted by clawson: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 01:24 PM
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Maybe install some variant of MS Visual Studio and one of the tools it gives you is depends.exe - once you've run it one it adds an entry to context menus so that in explorer you can right click a .exe and then get a view of what DLLs it's going to dynamically link with (this is a bit like ldd in Linux). It's often useful for minding missing dependencies or version conflicts that are preparing apps from initialising.

EDIT: actually you can get depends separately:

http://www.dependencywalker.com/

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zainka
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Posted by zainka: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 01:33 PM
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...And ensure your PATH is set correctly.
both C:\WinAVR\bin and C:\WinAVR\utils\bin should be present, assuming WinAVR is installed on root offcourse.

(By the way, you didn't say anything aboute the wiznet AVR relation :) )

Regards
Vidar (Z)

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clawson
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Posted by clawson: Tue. Jan 13, 2009 - 01:42 PM
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Just to note that on my system this is what make.exe and avr-gcc.exe are linking with:

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Thu. Jan 15, 2009 - 11:45 AM
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clawson wrote:
Just to note that on my system this is what make.exe and avr-gcc.exe are linking with:

Yes, I have the exact same dependency structures.
haven't done anything on this yet, I am too busy :(
But the vending machine is transported to the "workshop", and we're going over to dissect it tonight!

Eivind :)

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Bingo600
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Posted by Bingo600: Sat. Jan 17, 2009 - 08:35 PM
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eivind wrote:
@Bingo: That one has a very nice price! Did you buy it? I didn't like this post:
Quote:
"Hallo?!? Das Ding ist von Pollin. Erwartet also nicht dass es
reibungslos funktioniert..."

...Are these Pollin-things not always reliable?

I am currently on the EtherNut track, as I borrowed a board from a colleague. So far, I've managed to build the tools, only to have the make utility crash with an initialization error msg from Windows :)

Cheers;
Eivind

Just back from a week in Tenerife :-)

And yes i have bought & assembled 2 pcs.

They work fine

They are not as resourcefull as the ethernut , but function fine , until now i have just tried the M32 variant , but will try the M644 soon.

Ohh and Eivind ... Just switch to Linux :-) , then Bill won't get you :wink: :wink:

/Bingo

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js
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Posted by js: Sat. Jan 17, 2009 - 10:20 PM
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I would suggest salted Beer-NutOS...get more sales. By server do we mean "bar tender"?
Surely Joerg should be able to come up with beer-ware for this use. :mrgreen:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Chris.Doherty
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Posted by Chris.Doherty: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 02:21 AM
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Connect One seem to have some very interesting and cheap products that may help:-

http://www.connectone.com/
also see
http://www.rfdesign.co.za
who seem to stock some of their products

Chris

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stevech
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Posted by stevech: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 08:20 AM
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Chris.Doherty wrote:
Connect One seem to have some very interesting and cheap products that may help:-

http://www.connectone.com/
also see
http://www.rfdesign.co.za
who seem to stock some of their products

Chris

I have one. Works well. Complicated.
Mouser stocks.

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eivind
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Posted by eivind: Mon. Jan 19, 2009 - 02:15 PM
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Eric: No need to worry about the WinAVR distribution. I found the problem.
The Application and Device Control module installed by Symantec Endpoint Protection caused it. And according to IT it's not really needed, so I uninstalled it. At least, the GNU tools are behaving now :)

Cheers;
Eivind

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AndersAnd
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Posted by AndersAnd: Wed. Mar 18, 2009 - 02:57 PM
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Looks like you are using the open source OS + hardware platform and compiler.
Are you going to use open source beer too?
Here's the world's first open source beer originally conceived by Copenhagen-based artist collective Superflex and students at the Copenhagen IT University in Denmark: http://freebeer.org

Free Beer changelog: http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe

http://freebeer.org/blog/about

Quote:
About

FREE BEER
is a beer which is free in the sense of freedom, not in the sense of free beer.

The project, originally conceived by Copenhagen-based artist collective Superflex and students at the Copenhagen IT University, applies modern free software / open source methods to a traditional real-world product - namely the alcoholic beverage loved and enjoyed globally, and commonly known as beer.

FREE BEER is based on classic ale brewing traditions, but with addded Guaraná for a natural energy boost. The recipe and branding elements of FREE BEER is published under a Creative Commons (Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5) license, which means that anyone can use the recipe to brew their own FREE BEER or create a derivative of the recipe. Anyone is free to earn money from FREE BEER, but they must publish the recipe under the same license and credit our work. All design and branding elements are available to beer brewers, and can be modified to suit, provided changes are published under the same license (”Attribution & Share Alike”)

FREE BEER is based on Vores Øl v. 1. FREE BEER v 3.0 is currently under revision by Skands Brewery and is scheduled to hit the shelves in Denmark (and hopefully be available for purchase online) by mid june 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fre...

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