Real TIme Counter????

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#1
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Is "Real TIme Counter" the same as "Real TIme Clock"? Can some one give me a list of what avrs have RTCs?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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AFIK, "Real Time Counter" means that it will count based on an external clock rather than the system clock.

If the external clock is "appropriate" (32.768KHz, for example). said Real Time Counter can be used as a Real Time Clock.

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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I saw a app note that said the atmega103 and other avrs had a RTCs in them, and I was wondering what "other avrs" had Real Time Clocks?

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc1259.pdf

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Go to http://www.atmel.com/dyn/product... and pick one.

Lee 9997

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Why is there no seconds or minutes registers in this data sheet? Does someone have "The Missing Pages" :wink:

http://www.futurlec.com/Philips/PCF8583T.shtml:

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Quote:
Why is there no seconds or minutes registers in this data sheet?

Why would you say that they are not there? They are clearly marked in figure 4, page 7.

Regards,
Steve A.

The Board helps those that help themselves.

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I'm talking about the byte values, like in page 6. Does anyone know what bit are what in the minute byte is like? :?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Does anyone know the bit instructions for the minute byte. It skips from register location 00(control reg) to 04(hour reg), no hundredths of a second, no seconds, and no minutes! Is there someone familiar to this chip, or RTC IC in general that can help me? :x :( :?: :?:

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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You are expecting details for the 1/100 Sec, Seconds and Minutes registers - as are detailed for the
Hours register (04) in Fig.5 Format of the hours counter???

In figure 4 Register Arrangement - Clock Modes, observe that there are vertical dividing lines in registers
01 through 0D. Those dividing lines indicate that the data contained in the registers are split into nibbles
(one half byte). Thus for the Hundredth of a Second register the upper nibble (bits 7,6,5,4) will hold the
1/10 seconds count (0 through 9) and the lower nibble (bits 3,2,1,0) will hold the 1/100 seconds count
(0 through 9). The Seconds and Minutes registers are similar except the upper nibbles will only contain
counts of 0 through 5.

The reason that the Hours register was detailed on the data sheet is to further define that bit 7 is a flag
for 12/24 hour mode indication and bit 6 is a flag for AM/PM indication. Bits 5 and 4 contain the
Ten Hours count: 0 and 1 for the 12 Hour mode, 0 through 3 for the 24 Hour mode.

Stan

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Let me get this right, in order to put a value of 42 sec. into the seconds register, the first nibble would be 0010, and the second nibble would be 0100 right?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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First, second, left, right, most significant, least significant???
____

To load a value of 42 seconds into the PC8583 Seconds register 02
the byte value sent would be 0b01000010 or 0x42 :idea:

Stan

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OK, I get it. 8)

One more question, have do I send the value to 02 register using the I2C communication, in terms of addresses, acknowledgment bits, start, and stop bits flow diagrams??? :?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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This post was originally put here in an attempt to clear up some perceived confusion regarding Hexadecimal to Decimal conversion. I have deleted the context of my original comments, in agreement with sbennett.

But I'm leaving the conversion matrices, because I believe that they are a good example of one method of conversion from Hexadecimal to Decimal.

                        Bit Weight
            B7 : B6 : B5 : B4 : B3 : B2 : B1 : B0
           128   64   32   16    8    4    2    1
0x42   =     0    1    0    0    0    0    1    0
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sum Total    0 + 64 +  0 +  0 +  0 +  0 +  2 +  0 = 66 Decimal

0x42 = 66 Decimal
                        Bit Weight
            B7 : B6 : B5 : B4 : B3 : B2 : B1 : B0
           128   64   32   16    8    4    2    1
0x2A   =     0    0    1    0    1    0    1    0
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sum Total    0 +  0 + 32 +  0 +  8 +  0 +  2 +  0 = 42 Decimal

0x2A = 42 Decimal

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Is this valid code for finding what in the minutes register?

	i2c_init();
	
	i2c_start(0b10100000);
	
	i2c_write(0b00000011);

	
	i2c_start(0b10100001);


	minutes = i2c_read(0);

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   i2c_init();                  // always do first
   if (i2c_start(0xA0) == 0) {  // PCF8583
       i2c_write(3);            // minutes register
       i2c_rep_start(0xA0 | 1); // read device
       minutes = i2c_read(0);   // get answer and stop
   }

Your code will work. It is always worth checking that your device is there and the bus is available. It is less necessary to check every write or repeat-start once you already have the bus.
You have the data sheet so you can see for yourself. The registers hold BCD so to set "21" as in 21 april, you will be writing 0x21 and not 0x15 (decimal 21).

David.

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What about the hour register, will it send the the whole byte or just the hour value, also what variable type(binary, decimal, hex) is return for the read command?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Read the data sheet.

David.

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Will this code for writing the RTC work?

int main(void) 
{
	i2c_init();
	
	
	if(i2c_start(0b10100000) == 0)
	{
		i2c_write(0b00000100);
		i2c_write(0b10000000);
		i2c_stop();
	}
	
	
	if(i2c_start(0b10100000) == 0)
	{
		i2c_write(0b00000011);
		i2c_write(0b00000000);
		i2c_stop();   
	}  
	
	while(1)
	{
		
	}
}

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Reading binary may make sense to you, but in this case decimals or symbols for the register# would be more appropriate. As would the odd comment.

   // time is 21 April 2008 19:40:59.00
   if(i2c_start(0xA0) == 0)
   {
      i2c_write(4);     // hour
      i2c_write(0x19);
      i2c_rep_start(0xA0);
      i2c_write(3);
      i2c_write(0x40);
      i2c_rep_start(0xA0);
      i2c_write(2);     // second
      i2c_write(0x59);
      i2c_rep_start(0xA0);
      i2c_write(1);
      i2c_write(0x00);
      i2c_rep_start(0xA0);
      i2c_write(5);     // day
      i2c_write(0x21);
      i2c_rep_start(0xA0);
      i2c_write(6);     // month
      i2c_write(0x04);
      i2c_stop();
   } 

I have addressed and written each register individually. It is a lot easier to just address register #1, and sequentially write 00,59,40,19,21,04 (all in BCD) followed by a i2c_stop().

Download the data sheet, print page 6 and 7. Others you can read from the screen.

David.

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david.prentice wrote:

   i2c_init();                  // always do first
   if (i2c_start(0xA0) == 0) {  // PCF8583
       i2c_write(3);            // minutes register
       i2c_rep_start(0xA0 | 1); // read device
       minutes = i2c_read(0);   // get answer and stop
   }

When I compile this code I get a warning for the minutes variable:
" warning: 'minutes' may be used uninitialized in this function"

What does this mean and how do I fix it? I thick the variable has to be defined as a hex var.? :?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Have you tried "minute"

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Is there any way to spilt the byte up into two nibbles?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Yes. Use the shift operator

>>

and the AND operator

&

Your life might be - mine's more like roast lamb and gratin dauphinois.

Four legs good, two legs bad, three legs stable.

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Is this ow you would set it up?:

minute = i2c_read(0);

minute_one |= (minute >> 0) & (minute >> 1) & (minute >> 2) & (minute >> 3);

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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No, that won't work.
More like:

msnibble = (stuff >> 4) & 0x0f;
lsnibble = stuff & 0x0f;

brackets may not be necessary, but I can never remember operator precedence.
BTW this won't be much use unless the value is in BCD.

In fact the &0x0f in the 1st line probably isn't strictly necessary either.

Four legs good, two legs bad, three legs stable.

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The values are always stored in BCD in the registers.

This makes them easy to display: printf("%02x", bcd_value);

However, if you want to do arithmetic with the value you need to convert:

decimal = bcd2dec(bcd_value);
// #define bcd2dec(v) (((v)>>4) & 0x0F)*10 + ((v) & 0x0F))

and back again with:

bcd_value = dec2bcd(decimal);
// you can either write a function or macro for yourself

Of course if you were to go back 30 years, there was a nice CPU called the 6502 that could do arithmetic directly in BCD. How times have progressed !

David.

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How might I store the 4th and 5th bits in the hour register in a variable, with bit manipulation?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Taco_Bell wrote:
How might I store the 4th and 5th bits in the hour register in a variable, with bit manipulation?

By you thinking about it.

Write down your thoughts.
Try them out.

Then ask again. Show what you have tried.

David.

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Come on David, read the whole question. The man ultimately wants a yes/no answer:

Quote:

with bit manipulation?

And the answer is: Yes.

Sarcasm aside, this is a typical case where we should refer to the bit-manipulation tutorial: https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

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I disagree. Taco wants to know how. He also knows what he wants to do.

So with a little thought he can see how he shifts bits, and masks them. Assignment is trivial.

In fact the project is fairly tricky for many people just reading and writing to the i2c.
Having read the data sheet, the registers just keep information in specific bits and nibbles. This part is just careful study.

David.

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Surely the comma was signficant - the ", with bit manipulation?" is a separate clause forming the question so the answer is "Yes" as Johan said.

So as not to be completely off-topic my hint to Taco is that the values 0x30 and possibly 4 may figure somewhere in one possible solution.

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Yes, Cliff. I think that both you and Johan have got better eyesight than me.

And yes, I was probably harsh. Taco has managed some far trickier problems. He is already on the right track and just needs the confidence to try out his ideas.

Quite often pencil and paper are more effective than rushing to a computer terminal.

David.

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Quote:
Quite often pencil and paper are more effective than rushing to a computer terminal.

Exactly! ;) My desk is full of old scraps of paper and post-it notes fulls of 0's and 1's where I've been trying to "picture" a specific manipulation of bits.

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This is a yes or no question but feel free to add in anything else. Would this work to isolate the tens bits in the hour byte?:

tens_hour = (hours & 0x30);

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Time to get out your paper and pencil methinks!

But your use of the variable name "tens_hours" suggests that what you may actually be aiming for is:

tens_hour = hours / 10
units_hour = hours % 10;

if you are trying to separate upper and lower decimal digits. But if you are doing this it's presumably for ASCII output and if that's the case you'll get more mileage out of something like itoa()

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The hour register has a nibble for ones places and two bits(5th and 4th) for the tens place, and I'm trying to (get) tens place value multiply it by 10 then add it to the ones place value and then get the hours value.

So will this code work?:

tens_hour = (hours & 0x30);

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Taco_Bell wrote:
This is a yes or no question but feel free to add in anything else. Would this work to isolate the tens bits in the hour byte?:

tens_hour = (hours & 0x30);

Yes. You will need to shift it as well, to get it 0..9

But if you do not intend to do any calculations:
And you will get both digits printed in one go !!

sprintf("%02x:%02x:%02x.%02x", hour & 0x30, minute, second, hundth);

If you need to extract bits from say the control/status reg[0]:
0b00110000 // a binary mask example
0b--md---- // mode flag.    =(status >> 4) & 3;
0b-----a-- // alarm enable. =(status >> 2) & 1;  
0b----m--- // mask.         =(status >> 3) & 1;

As I hinted earlier,  you can convert all your data to decimal.  Then you can do sums.   Then you use %02d in sprintf("%02d", decimal);  

Read the tutorials on bit manipulation. and draw on paper.

Good Luck.

David.

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As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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The RTC appears to be store the value that I gave it but it does not seem to clocking it, does anyone know what the problem could be?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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One day you will accept that the data sheet has a purpose.

Read page 10. Read your contents of that register. Does this explain your situation ?

If not, post the value and ask for an explanation.

David.

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It means that you have declared the variable minutes without giving it a value. As the assignment takes place inside a conditional statement (if) then the compiler is pointing out that minutes may NEVER be set to any value. To fix it merely assign the value of 0 when you declare it, e.g.

char minutes = 0;
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Quote:

One day you will accept that the data sheet has a purpose.

I'm beginning to doubt OPs willingness to read anything at all except answers to his "yes and no questions but feel free to add ain anything"...

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No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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I'm not making a timer so I don't need the timer register. The clock holds the value but it does not count up(the function of a clock), it just stores the value.

i2c_init();
	
	
	if(i2c_start(0xA0) == 0) //setting
	{ 
		i2c_write(4);     // Hours 
		i2c_write(0x80); 
		i2c_rep_start(0xA0); // Minutes
		i2c_write(3); 
		i2c_write(0x00); 
	}
	
while(1) // the return value does don't seem to change?
{

	if (i2c_start(0xA0) == 0)// PCF8583
	{
		i2c_write(4);            // hours register 
		i2c_rep_start(0xA1); // read device 
		hours = i2c_read(0);   // get answer and stop 
	}
	
	
	if (i2c_start(0xA0) == 0)  // PCF8583 
	{ 
		i2c_write(3);            // minutes register 
		i2c_rep_start(0xA1); // read device 
		minutes = i2c_read(0);   // get answer and stop
	}


Display Time(Convert Time(minute, hours));// fake code
}

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Read the data sheet. Read what you have in this register. Then say if you do not understand.

David.

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The minutes value, the hours value plus 12h format bit. Flow chart:

I send the minutes(lets say 1) and hours(lets say 2) values;

I wait 5 minutes;

I read the value and they are the same(they should be hours = 2 and minutes = 6) as values I put in, in the beginning(hours = 2 and minutes = 1);

I don't know what more info I can give you with out show you the code(which for some reason people seem to hate). And for what I can see there is no register for my problem and I've read over the data sheet completely though at least ten times. :x :x

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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I gave you the page number in the data sheet. Previous replies have hinted about "control" and "status".

I advised which pages to print on paper. I really think that you prefer using other people's time than to make the tiniest effort.

David.

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Do you know the answer and your dropping me hints or you don't know what I'm trying to ask you?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Of course I know the answer.

You just choose not to read the answer. I do not know how much clearer I can be than to tell you page numbers and register names.

You must decide whether you want some anonymous hex-file that just runs or whether you want to know how and why to use a chip.

If you just want hex-code: quote your AVR, clock speed, UART baud rate or LCD port and connections.

If you read the data sheet and do not understand, then I am quite happy to explain.

David.

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I have read through your posts and have come to the conclusion that you do not know how to obtain a data sheet.

Just google "PCF8583 data sheet" and you will get several hits. Always choose the hit from the manufacturer (in this case Philips / NXP Semiconductor )

You will generally get a PDF file and it will open in a new window with "Acrobat Reader".

You can print individual pages, or preferably "Save As" the complete file to your own computer.

Now, when someone quotes a page number or Figure no, you can read what they are talking about.

David.

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david.prentice wrote:
If you read the data sheet and do not understand, then I am quite happy to explain.

David.


I do not understand, can you please help understand what I'm doing wrong?

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Taco,

What do you not understand ? How to obtain a data sheet, or the contents of Fig.3 and fig.4.

The only impression that you give me, is that you just like wasting other people's time.

This thread started on March 27.

David.

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I have a data sheet, I have no problem accessing it. I need help understanding the registers (I guess???), I don't know what you want me to do, figure it out myself, ask you to explain it to me????? I don't know something and I need help

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Ask a SPECIFIC question about an aspect you don't understand. You have the datasheet, we shouldn't have to explain the entire thing to you, when it's already written there.

Writing code is like having sex.... make one little mistake, and you're supporting it for life.

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Read the register in Fig.3. Determine whether it shows the correct bits. Set the registers that you want from Fig.4.

Clock, Timer, Alarm Counter should all function correctly. If they do not function according to your settings from Fig.3 then power-cycle the chip.

I would be interested in seeing your actual value from Fig.3 that corresponds to your minutes not altering.

David.

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The problem, Taco, is that if you are not more specific than "understanding the registers" then the option for anyone trying to formulate an answer is to

EITHER copy the text from the data sheet verbatim, which of-course adds nothing of value.

OR sit down and write a lecture on how to use the PCF8583, which will take hours and involve a lot of work which might never be of use ultimately. Essentially it boils down yto figuring out all (or at least many) of the questions that could be asked about the PCF8535 and then finding that it was only a few of the questions/answers that did actually apply (at least in this thread). No-one wants to have their time wasted like that.

So, you need to be more specific in your questions, like "I have read the data-sheet and studied the figures, and I'm having problems understanding how the bit in the register works". (I just made those two names up, but you do realise that, don't you?)

If you end up finding that the thing you can say is "I don't know how to use the PCF8535 at all", and "I don't understand a single thing in the data sheet", then you have jumped onto something a bit over your current ability and need to start with something simpler. Sorry, but there's no other way about it.

It would also help you immensely if you said something about how you have studied the examples in C for an AVR and the PCF8535 that exists on The Web (You should study them even if they do not apply to your specific AVR.)

Besides, where did you get the impression that people hate to be shown code? What might be disliked is to be shown code with the accompanying "fix this for me", or the totally clueless "why is this not working?".

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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FEE FY FOH FUMMM.....

Me smells someone wanting his work done by someone!!

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

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Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Don't raise your blood pessure JohanEkdahl.

I haven't put a value in the control register.

Life Is Like A Bucket Of Chicken.

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Why (yet agian) would someone pick a chip to use for a function, with no idea how to interface to it?

At least THIS time it is feasible for an AVR to talk to it.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Quote:

Don't raise your blood pessure JohanEkdahl.

Didn't raise my blood pressure. I was cool. Just tried to answer to you what you wherse asking about.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Taco_Bell wrote:
Don't raise your blood pessure JohanEkdahl.

I haven't put a value in the control register.

It is sad to see that you didn't care to listen to any of Johan's, David's or glitch's suggestions.

There are two things at successfully getting questions answered. The first is asking a meaningful, focused question. You failed on that one. The second part is to actually listen to the answers. You failed on that account, too.

It looks as if you want to abuse people as your personal servants which have to read your mind and fix any of your problems ASAP. You seem to think you are entitled to help without having to put any own effort into it. You act like a rich spoiled brat. Consider growing up and changing that behavior.

Stealing Proteus doesn't make you an engineer.

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Quote:
I haven't put a value in the control register.

Which is why I am interested in what the current value is. The chip defaults to a 0b00000000 in that register at power-up.

Taco has made 61 posts, so is hardly a "new user". He has received very specific advice.

David.