pcb routing problem

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hi
i have routed this board by protel dxp 2006 automaticaly.but i wanted to route the board in single sided.how can i route it automatically. is there any programm that automaticaly add jumpers to board so it can route it automaticaly.

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Single-sided boards are best routed manually, most autorouters do a very bad job.

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

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Autorouters are rarely the easiest path to take. I would strongly advise trying to do it by hand.

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Also routing manually will help you to understand your circuit better and will be useful during debugging....
you can most times what has/could have gone wrong...
can it be soldered this close and things like that

change without any change is no change ;-)

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If you really want to autoroute, and want a single sided board with jumpers, what you actually do is set up the autorouter to route a double sided board. The second side will be the jumpers. You need to tweak the rules for the autorouter so that it uses the second side (jumpers) as little as possible (ie. set a very high cost to use that layer/side. You should also have the possibility to tweak the autorouter so that it will not allow bends on thos second layer, and that the tracks are only allowed in two straight directions (up-down or left-right).

The specifics depends on the software used. I am not a user of Protel.

You might very well be disappointed with the results. The dominating opinion, at least here at 'freaks, is that autorouters (exceptr maybe for very expensive ones) does not do a good enough job.

Some have advocated that you can use the autorouter "for inspiration", eg running it several times with different parameters to get a feel for how a board can be routed. After that you either rip up what you dont like and rout that by hand, or you just start from scratch doing it all by hand.

If you supplied the existing board routing in a format that others than Protel users can read (eg. a PDF) I suspect that you stand a better chance of getting good advice.

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Orcad Layout has a special mode in its autorouter for single sided boards where you can define up to 5 different lengths of jumpers, but the results are almost useless.

Better do it manually.

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hi every body and thanks for your replys

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File is corrupted.

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

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No problems with it.

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Protel is Altium, and I can say that the auto-routing does a VERY good job in this program.. I hardly ever have to fix anything on the output, provided you take the time to place the components properly and define your design rules for the board...

As far as adding jumpers automatically I have never seen any program do this... Best bet is to route those lines manually first, then auto-route the rest. Proper net naming and rules defining is key to having the autoroute work properly everytime in Altium (or Protel/DXP)

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Also, if you have jumpers I assume the design is all through hole? I have successfully used Altium's autorouter on double sided boards with BGA144 chips, and impedance driven routing, so I see no reason for a TH board, however complicated it is, not to auto route properly on one layer.. Just pay close attention how you place the components, and leave enough space between them to be able to route a couple of traces easily between components.

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One thing you can do to inhibit routing on the bottom layer is after you have placed all components, pour a copper fill on the bottom layer, connect it to a net name that is not present on your board, and lock it in place.

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Hmmm I have just checked out your board, Ali, and my advice to you is do it double sided... It is big, and there are plenty of lines you would have to jumper. If you are looking to save some money, make all those big DIP chips SOIC instead, and you will cut board size to maybe half of what it is right now. But in my humble opinion there is no advantage to routing this board single sided with jumpers...

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I think that with most low-cost prototype PCB houses single-sided PCB are not that much cheaper anyway.

Single-sided boards are only interesting if you need to produce a couple of thousand or million of them.

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Quote:

Single-sided boards are only interesting if you need to produce a couple of thousand or million of them.

Or if you manufacture them yourself, I guess. Aligning two sides before exponation is tricky. Doing all vias is a big job. If the board isn't to complicated you could do as I described and make the routing cost very high on the component side (and force the autorouter to only straight perpendicular tracks on that side).

IIRC there is a template or something for Eagle with settings for this.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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thanks for your advise. and i think UNiXWHoRe have a good advise to pour a copper fill on the bottom layer.
any way i have another question.
i all ways wanted to export eagle schematic files to protel has any one have the right ulp.and is there any for importing pcb files from protel to eagle.

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Pulsonix comes with ULPs for importing Eagle files. You could download their demo and modify it for Protel. It shouldn't be too difficult.

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

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> The dominating opinion, at least here at 'freaks, is that autorouters
> (exceptr maybe for very expensive ones) does not do a good enough job.

That's probably the case because many users haven't been using much more than
Eagle's autorouter, which is known to not belong to the top league.

I wouldn't want to miss my Bartels autorouter anymore, and I guess the Protel
autorouter is about as good (maybe even an OEM'ed Bartels?).

However, usually autorouters aren't really tuned for routing single-sided boards,
so those might indeed be best routed manually.

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Pulsonix used to supply the Bartels autorouter, but they now use Electra. It does a much better job than the Bartels one.

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

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hi leon
i am not familier with ulp language do you know any ready ulp for use.
and another few questions.
does any body know how to use coreldraw to print protel dxp files in real size.
and does any body have a good link about double sided pcb making in home.

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You'll find plenty of info on making PCBs if you join the Homebrew PCB Yahoo group:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/gro...

Leon

Leon Heller G1HSM

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The most important issue when designing layout is meticulous compnent placemet. Normally autorouters do poor or very poor work. So route your board manually like all professionals do. Routing manually takes time, but it's worth it. :)

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I will repeat it once again, Protel (Altium) does a VERY good job at autorouting. It saved me many hours in my routing endeavours, but of course a human look will be needed to correct misplaced or overlaid vias and such...

As for making home PCBs, the toner transfer from an acetate (or inkjet photo paper) method works well enough if the board isnt too complicated.. Just etch the top side with the other side completely protected, drill the vias, then etch the other side... If you took care to align the toner transfer on the bottom side to the holes you drilled you should be good to go... Just remember you won't have any plating in the vias, so take care to make sure there is a solid solder link on both sides during assembly...

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One would think that overlaid via's and such are easy to correct for a computer ;)

Homebrew double sided PCB are doable, I've done quite a few in the past.

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why do you not just print protel dxp files from protel?

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i dont know how to print them in real size?

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> oute your board manually like all professionals do

Be carefull with claims like "all", "none" and such. You could
easily be proven false by already a single counter-example.

(Beside, I would even doubt your claim if you used "most" instead
of "all".)

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Ali_dehbidi wrote:
i dont know how to print them in real size?

It's not that hard

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i know to set the print scale to 1 but when i try it will fit the pcb to the page

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dl8dtl wrote:
> oute your board manually like all professionals do

Be carefull with claims like "all", "none" and such. You could
easily be proven false by already a single counter-example.

(Beside, I would even doubt your claim if you used "most" instead
of "all".)

At work we have a few Altera dev.boards, and it's clear they have been auto-routed.

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knut_ wrote:
The most important issue when designing layout is meticulous compnent placemet. Normally autorouters do poor or very poor work. So route your board manually like all professionals do. Routing manually takes time, but it's worth it. :)

It depends on the auto-router, the Pulsonix one I use does a very good job. It's quite expensive, though. These days most complex PCBs are auto-routed, manual routing would be very difficult, very expensive, and wouldn't work any better.

Leon

PS Double post deleted by moderator

Leon Heller G1HSM

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so does any body know how to print in real size?

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In the copies of Protel and Altium we have here, both have the option to "scale to fit page" or similar. It is in the page setup. Remove this, and ensure scaling is set to 1 and you should have actual size printed

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There might be some automatic scaling in your printer drivers as well, make sure you disable it...

In Altium you have to be careful to always set an origin to your PCB.. But even then I had some problems before printing directly from Altium.. I usually use the Smart PDF feature, export to an Acrobat file and then print from there...