Posted by avrcandies: Mon. May 16, 2022 - 07:37 PM
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Uncanny.
Strange how random stuff happens...I went to the other side of town, bout 30 minutes away to an an auction of a garage/workshop, except I got there and it was mostly finished. There was a nice table saw and tool cabinet/drawers that had been sold & I would have been interested...Oh well. I headed towards home across town and stopped by the grocery for a bit. For some unknown, random reason, I decided to take a different road, which is longer and not at all my normal path home. About a mile from home I spotted a set of tool drawers half way up a driveway. I assumed they were sitting there to be sold so I came to a stop for a better look. Just then a guy came around his truck & asked what I wanted. I asked if he was putting it up for sale & was shocked by his reply...No, in fact I just bought it at an auction and am hauling it into my garage. Those were the same drawers I had seen way across town an hour earlier! If I had not taken that random road or been 5 minutes earlier or later would have missed it in the driveway. I told my wife this uncanny tale & her only reply was why do you need more drawers?
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
After comments here I just started to explore what would be involved in using Kicad/EDA and getting boards from JLCPCB.
Cliff,you could also made homemade breadboard.Only 6 cents plus junk PCB.I didn’t posting the finished cause already at junk yard(acti of my sister and brother).I bought plastic bread board and added spare unused pcbs below.
But that's the thing - I want to get AWAY from the unreliability of spring clipped contacts in a breadboard. I expect buttons/knobs/switches to be heavily tweaked and they will simply come loose from a breadboard before very long.
As JLCPCB is so cheap it is kind of tempting to have a crack at it. Just trying to weigh up things between EasyEDA and KiCAD.
Posted by avrcandies: Tue. May 17, 2022 - 02:09 PM
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You probably want to at least have some breadboard or cardboard setup for a day or so...very quickly you can decide whether your arrangement was rubbish (gee I wish these were paced 5mm further apart, arranged differently, etc)
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
usually I just get the idea in my head and start soldering up protoboards. I figure the wires are my schematic.
Only semi-related but I used to work with a HW engineer who designed his PCBs directly as layouts. No schematics at all. Many of these boards had MCUs and it was kinda hard for me to figure out which pin connected to what. So I'd go to him and ask for a schematic. And he would sigh and draw one for me...
Posted by avrcandies: Wed. May 18, 2022 - 02:40 PM
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Only semi-related but I used to work with a HW engineer who designed his PCBs directly as layouts. No schematics at all.
Some of that may have been necessity, since in some packages they were rather independent operations. You'd have to actually take extra steps to link or compared them to see if they "matched up". Having real time sync between schem and PCB was a big step forward.
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
Just trying to weigh up things between EasyEDA and KiCAD.
I have not used KiCAD extensively but for the little time I have used it, this is what I found.
KiCAD as we all know is open source which is great, but it has one downside that it keeps changing, which states community is still figuring out to find the most optimal way to do things. It is full fledged software very powerful. If you leave the software for one year and come back, you'll see that the way to do even some of the basic things have changed. It has all the bells and whistles that a community driven software should have.
EasyEDA is not open source. It has partnership with JLCPCB. The software is designed in a way to make sure the learning curve is not steep so that they get more orders, which means there will be no sudden hard changes, it is what it is and I think it will remain this way (it is sort of aimed towards the beginners, it like saying to them see how easy it is to design a PCB, also order it for 2 dollars). JLCPCB ordering system is integrated into the software, but it not compulsory to use it, you can download your gerber files and go with any other manufacturer.
As soon as you make your own part for some reason, meaning footprint, symbol and stuff, it is automatically uploaded to the server. So it has large number community made parts that you can choose from. Also it has separate parts library which they themselves have made and is suppose to be very accurate. You can also see which parts are available for SMT service so you don't have to solder stuff yourself when the board arrives.
The good thing is the PCB manufacturer is integrated into the PCB design software. All this makes things very easy for the beginner, meaning even if you do not change any critical parameter, the default values in the software are set according to the JLCPCB manufacturer so that it won't create any problem, assuring that the board will be manufactured, even if it is designed by a beginner. EasyEDA has option to run in offline or online mode. If you choose online (which is recommended), all your projects/files will be stored in the server (which can be a good thing or bad thing).
There are many tutorials available for EasyEDA, but this one from a professional PCB designer is great.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
So far the one thing that has been irritating me about EasyEDA is that each time you access the web version you have to do one of those I am not a robot tests and it can seemingly go on for days. I have no idea why they have the protection but it is very irritating. I know you can download it too (like KiCAD) but the online thing is appealing if only there wasn't the irritating robot thing.
.I used Eagle also,but the gerber conversion didn’t worked well.(probably cause student version).I tried to built the breadboard from scratch.My 10US$ version breadboard already at junk yard.So,I bought and used Chinese version(below).
I know you can download it too (like KiCAD) but the online thing is appealing if only there wasn't the irritating robot thing.
Online web version sucks, it's also slow when compared to downloaded software. In desktop client it only asks once (the robot test thing). Also, don't confuse the web version with desktop version in terms of online file saving. The desktop client also saves files in your online account. There is no reason to use EasyEDA in browser. It offers no significant advantage over the other.
clawson wrote:
Anyway I'm just "exploring" right now.
Cool.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Here's where Cliff and I differ: in general, I consider any program (beyond the obvious, like a browser) which requires online connectivity a bad idea. Server storage is nice to have, flagging whether components are available for PCB placement is nice... but if I don't happen to have connectivity when I want to do something and my design isn't stored locally... um.
The great thing about webapps IMAO is that I don't have to install anything on my PC and I don't have "data synchronisation issues"
The no-install thing is nice especially when working on a corporate machine where I don't (usually) have admin rights (as it happens I applied for and got rights yesterday but it is for corporate safety so that not "any old thing" can get installed)
The web storage thing is nice because I can do changes on one machine, leave that, switch to another machine (and for some things that can even mean my phone) and pick up exactly where I left off. The alternative is the horrors of things like OneDrive, Dropbox etc or maybe using Github or some other centralized RVC system to check things in and out.
In the focussed little world where I play (synths etc) there is an increasing move to online apps and project storage. Things like Roland ZenBeats (a DAW but one that happens in you browser), also Bandlab Cakewalk (another DAW). I also like that there are online synths like this:
So I don't need an "app" on Windows machine, a Linux machine, my phone. I can just "play" with such a toy whatever device I happen to be viewing the interwebs with at the time.
To be honest when I read a bout KiCAD and EasyEDA (the two main programs suggested/supporting JLCPCB who appear to have the cheapest of PCB services - and even assembly / component sourcing options - I would say KiCAD though potentially more complex looks like the "better fit" for the way I like to do things. But EasyEDA is a nice idea in that it is cloud hosted. But what I don't get is why, if I have signed into it from one machine it cannot set a cookie (even if it's a limited lifespan) to say "keep logged in" for a day or two. Instead, every time you return you have to log in then you have to play the Captcha game which is irritating beyond belief. Presumably they are trying to prevent robots scouring their component catalog/stock levels or something ?
Instead, every time you return you have to log in then you have to play the Captcha game which is irritating beyond belief.
This is indeed troubling if it's happening every time. I just logged in on the web version using the email password option, I just clicked on "I am not a Robot" and it got verified and it didn't ask me to play the Captcha game.
Which option you are using to sign in? Sign in with google or the standard Email/Password?
Try switching to another option and see, might work.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Ah I wonder if the repeated Captcha was because of the VPN I'm connected to most of the time? It makes my machine look like it's in Germany. I should try it from my personal laptop perhaps.
It's always a bit annoying when someone comes out with a product that is reasonably priced and does almost all of the things you envisioned for some custom project you were thinking of creating.
Adafruit has Midi keyboard gadgets in various sizes:
And also components/PCBs for building more custom shapes (comm via I2C, apparently)
The Divine Move in GO
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopStrange how random stuff happens...I went to the other side of town, bout 30 minutes away to an an auction of a garage/workshop, except I got there and it was mostly finished. There was a nice table saw and tool cabinet/drawers that had been sold & I would have been interested...Oh well. I headed towards home across town and stopped by the grocery for a bit. For some unknown, random reason, I decided to take a different road, which is longer and not at all my normal path home. About a mile from home I spotted a set of tool drawers half way up a driveway. I assumed they were sitting there to be sold so I came to a stop for a better look. Just then a guy came around his truck & asked what I wanted. I asked if he was putting it up for sale & was shocked by his reply...No, in fact I just bought it at an auction and am hauling it into my garage. Those were the same drawers I had seen way across town an hour earlier! If I had not taken that random road or been 5 minutes earlier or later would have missed it in the driveway. I told my wife this uncanny tale & her only reply was why do you need more drawers?
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
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Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopBut that's the thing - I want to get AWAY from the unreliability of spring clipped contacts in a breadboard. I expect buttons/knobs/switches to be heavily tweaked and they will simply come loose from a breadboard before very long.
As JLCPCB is so cheap it is kind of tempting to have a crack at it. Just trying to weigh up things between EasyEDA and KiCAD.
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TopYou probably want to at least have some breadboard or cardboard setup for a day or so...very quickly you can decide whether your arrangement was rubbish (gee I wish these were paced 5mm further apart, arranged differently, etc)
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
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TopOnly semi-related but I used to work with a HW engineer who designed his PCBs directly as layouts. No schematics at all. Many of these boards had MCUs and it was kinda hard for me to figure out which pin connected to what. So I'd go to him and ask for a schematic. And he would sigh and draw one for me...
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TopSome of that may have been necessity, since in some packages they were rather independent operations. You'd have to actually take extra steps to link or compared them to see if they "matched up". Having real time sync between schem and PCB was a big step forward.
When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!
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TopAnd some of use still do that with a Highlighter and a schematic on a piece of paper...
JC
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TopI have not used KiCAD extensively but for the little time I have used it, this is what I found.
KiCAD as we all know is open source which is great, but it has one downside that it keeps changing, which states community is still figuring out to find the most optimal way to do things. It is full fledged software very powerful. If you leave the software for one year and come back, you'll see that the way to do even some of the basic things have changed. It has all the bells and whistles that a community driven software should have.
EasyEDA is not open source. It has partnership with JLCPCB. The software is designed in a way to make sure the learning curve is not steep so that they get more orders, which means there will be no sudden hard changes, it is what it is and I think it will remain this way (it is sort of aimed towards the beginners, it like saying to them see how easy it is to design a PCB, also order it for 2 dollars). JLCPCB ordering system is integrated into the software, but it not compulsory to use it, you can download your gerber files and go with any other manufacturer.
As soon as you make your own part for some reason, meaning footprint, symbol and stuff, it is automatically uploaded to the server. So it has large number community made parts that you can choose from. Also it has separate parts library which they themselves have made and is suppose to be very accurate. You can also see which parts are available for SMT service so you don't have to solder stuff yourself when the board arrives.
The good thing is the PCB manufacturer is integrated into the PCB design software. All this makes things very easy for the beginner, meaning even if you do not change any critical parameter, the default values in the software are set according to the JLCPCB manufacturer so that it won't create any problem, assuring that the board will be manufactured, even if it is designed by a beginner. EasyEDA has option to run in offline or online mode. If you choose online (which is recommended), all your projects/files will be stored in the server (which can be a good thing or bad thing).
There are many tutorials available for EasyEDA, but this one from a professional PCB designer is great.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopSo far the one thing that has been irritating me about EasyEDA is that each time you access the web version you have to do one of those I am not a robot tests and it can seemingly go on for days. I have no idea why they have the protection but it is very irritating. I know you can download it too (like KiCAD) but the online thing is appealing if only there wasn't the irritating robot thing.
Anyway I'm just "exploring" right now.
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Top"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopI just use eagle.... it is fine.
The others might be better but I am able to do what I need.... which is pretty simple double sided stuff.
regards
Greg
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TopAttachment(s):
www.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopOnline web version sucks, it's also slow when compared to downloaded software. In desktop client it only asks once (the robot test thing). Also, don't confuse the web version with desktop version in terms of online file saving. The desktop client also saves files in your online account. There is no reason to use EasyEDA in browser. It offers no significant advantage over the other.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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TopChrome OS is the third OS | Page 2 | AVR Freaks
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopHere's where Cliff and I differ: in general, I consider any program (beyond the obvious, like a browser) which requires online connectivity a bad idea. Server storage is nice to have, flagging whether components are available for PCB placement is nice... but if I don't happen to have connectivity when I want to do something and my design isn't stored locally... um.
Neil (unrepentant child of the sixties)
Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
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TopThe great thing about webapps IMAO is that I don't have to install anything on my PC and I don't have "data synchronisation issues"
The no-install thing is nice especially when working on a corporate machine where I don't (usually) have admin rights (as it happens I applied for and got rights yesterday but it is for corporate safety so that not "any old thing" can get installed)
The web storage thing is nice because I can do changes on one machine, leave that, switch to another machine (and for some things that can even mean my phone) and pick up exactly where I left off. The alternative is the horrors of things like OneDrive, Dropbox etc or maybe using Github or some other centralized RVC system to check things in and out.
In the focussed little world where I play (synths etc) there is an increasing move to online apps and project storage. Things like Roland ZenBeats (a DAW but one that happens in you browser), also Bandlab Cakewalk (another DAW). I also like that there are online synths like this:
https://notes.ameo.design/fm.html
So I don't need an "app" on Windows machine, a Linux machine, my phone. I can just "play" with such a toy whatever device I happen to be viewing the interwebs with at the time.
To be honest when I read a bout KiCAD and EasyEDA (the two main programs suggested/supporting JLCPCB who appear to have the cheapest of PCB services - and even assembly / component sourcing options - I would say KiCAD though potentially more complex looks like the "better fit" for the way I like to do things. But EasyEDA is a nice idea in that it is cloud hosted. But what I don't get is why, if I have signed into it from one machine it cannot set a cookie (even if it's a limited lifespan) to say "keep logged in" for a day or two. Instead, every time you return you have to log in then you have to play the Captcha game which is irritating beyond belief. Presumably they are trying to prevent robots scouring their component catalog/stock levels or something ?
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TopThis is indeed troubling if it's happening every time. I just logged in on the web version using the email password option, I just clicked on "I am not a Robot" and it got verified and it didn't ask me to play the Captcha game.
Which option you are using to sign in? Sign in with google or the standard Email/Password?
Try switching to another option and see, might work.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
- Log in or register to post comments
TopAh I wonder if the repeated Captcha was because of the VPN I'm connected to most of the time? It makes my machine look like it's in Germany. I should try it from my personal laptop perhaps.
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Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopCliff,
Time to head out to your favorite magazine store and pick up the April edition of Practical Electronics.
One of the main projects is a 64-key push button switch matrix for use as a MIDI device.
The deluxe version has an LED associated with each PB Sw.
The author's interface and PCB layout is included within the article.
Clearly it is nice to evaluate your plan against this project and see if there are any good tips you can learn from it.
The following article is titled: "Digital FX Unit", (Part 1).
It certainly has a much fancier front panel than any of my projects.
I'm certainly not musically inclined, and haven't worked with MIDI or sound effects devices, so I can't evaluate their degree of sophistication.
Still, this issue seems to be written just for you!
JC
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TopIt's always a bit annoying when someone comes out with a product that is reasonably priced and does almost all of the things you envisioned for some custom project you were thinking of creating.
Adafruit has Midi keyboard gadgets in various sizes:
And also components/PCBs for building more custom shapes (comm via I2C, apparently)
(I dunno about those elastomer keys, though...)
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Top... rats, Practical Wireless but not Practical Electronics :-(
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TopA few useful companies that make SMT PCB adapters if anybody is interested.
https://www.artekit.eu/
https://www.proto-advantage.com/store/
Used both and their products and services are good.
Murdo.
There are already a million monkeys in front of a million keyboards, and the internet is nothing like Shakespeare!
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