"Armored" cable?

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#1
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Greetings -

 

Designing a new instrument that has the option of a secondary "power pack" a short distance (maybe up to a few meters) away. Environment is temperate to boreal forests. These instruments may be deployed for a fairly long time (possibly 6 months or more). Animal damage is a significant possibility; think squirrels. porcupines, and such. I am looking for a cable that might be nominally resistant to these creatures. Cable will be two conductor, maybe 16-18AWG or so. Currents are low (few mA). I realize that no cable can be totally resistant, but something that will withstand a casual assault would be helpful.

 

Suggestions, especially based on experience, are appreciated.

 

Thanks

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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My immediate thought was 'SY' cable. It's way thicker than you need but available everywhere.

 

 

[E2A]

Although they are not UV stable.

#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.

#3 All grounds are not created equal

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#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 06:01 AM
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Visiting shipyard, I noted that each and every cable is armored, consult them. Or air-services supply store.

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Find out what was used on payphone handsets...that's tough stuff

 

https://www.payphone.com/1-4-Arm...

..maybe cheaper elsewhere (if comes with 4 conductors, they could be put in parallel)

 

also

https://www.commscope.com/blog/2...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Electridu...

 

I was gonna suggest cable tv braided coax, but seems  like it gets attacked

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 07:13 AM
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How about regular cable inside a stainless steel tube. It's likely to be much cheaper solution.

 

> I was gonna suggest cable tv braided coax, but seems  like it gets attacked

It certainly does; and then or course, water gets in and because of the air spacing finds its way down the cable into the receiver.

 

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avrcandies wrote:
it gets attacked

 

... whenever you left fingerprints. There must be a solution for removing it. The last measure: add a nasty smell.

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The last measure: add a nasty smell.

I smell a rat cheeky 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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avrcandies wrote:
a rat

 

They adore a smell of smoked stuff...it takes time to realize a cable is not a tiny chorizo sausage...

 

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avrcandies wrote:
Find out what was used on payphone handsets...that's tough stuff

N.Winterbottom wrote:
How about regular cable inside a stainless steel tube. It's likely to be much cheaper solution.

 

Somewhat similar idea - search for stainless steel (garden or shower) hose:

Much cheaper than what @avrcandies showed (although those payphone handset cables were tough!).  Or search for braided stainless steel hose - a little bit more expensive perhaps, but may look neater:

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ka7ehk wrote:
These instruments may be deployed for a fairly long time (possibly 6 months or more). Animal damage is a significant possibility; think squirrels. porcupines, and such. I am looking for a cable that might be nominally resistant to these creatures.
garden or shower hose around 1 US$ at Home Depo

www.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.

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Too thin? Take two...

 

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avrcandies wrote:

 

Flex Conduit at Lowes.com

 

edit :

avrcandies wrote:
I was gonna suggest cable tv braided coax, but seems  like it gets attacked
Is photovoltaic cable resistant to rodents?  (double insulated)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:10 PM
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I too would recommend metal-wrapped shower hose.  A quick check on Amazon shows lengths up to 118 inches.

 

BTW, as a child my dad had a huge wooden spool of armored cable in the basement, origins unknown.  I used it to wire up a batch of outlets on a bench I made - I was probably about 12.  As far as I know, my parents never knew that I was tapping into the wiring in my youthful ignorance.  I'm sure the insurance company would not have been amused.

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Home Depot, armored romex

https://www.grainger.com/product...

 

I did like the suggestion of armored pay phone handset cable, but have no idea where you would get it.

 

Jim

 

 

FF = PI > S.E.T

 

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ka7ehk wrote:
Suggestions, especially based on experience, are appreciated.
For residential attics occupied by rats, squirrels, and raccoons I've found that plastic wire looms are adequate though I prefer armored cable from the home improvement store.

Cable trays are in plenums above a room's ceiling tiles though I have zero experience with that and how to keep Ethernet cables from being chewed upon (is plenum-rated cable not tasty due to a fire rating?)

If the forest's beings are well fed then the likelihood of damage is reduced except for the one who's simply pissed off at the presence of a cablesmiley

My experience is feed the squirrels else they'll gnaw during a severe drought (Texas Cross Timbers)

 

TPWD:Cross Timbers (STATE OF TEXAS)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Some mechatronics cable is armored (industrial robots, external auxiliary power units to aircraft where cables lay on the tarmac)

 

edit :

Another use case is container lifts (inter-modal transportation)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 02:38 PM
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Second (third?) vote for shower pipe or braided stainless steel hose (which a decent car spares place should be able to cut to length and terminate to suit with some sort of compression fitting).

 

But the shower hose will be cheapest.

 

Neil

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barnacle wrote:
(which a decent car spares place should be able to cut to length and terminate to suit with some sort of compression fitting)
Some automotive parts stores will cut and terminate hydraulic hose which should be tough enough.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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There exists steel-jacketed coax (use the shield as return), too:

 

https://ssicable.com/

 

Not cheap, and beastly to work with, but can tolerate just about anything.  S.

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Thanks, folks -

 

Time to take a thorough walk through the big box home improvement store. I like the idea of wire inside a hose or tube, especially if it is even a little flexible.

 

Appreciate the ideas,

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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I almost bought one of these a few years back for the garden...not too expensive

 

 

Here's some more variety  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/...

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:31 PM
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looking for something like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwi...

 

 

 

edit:

 

I also came across this when searching for "outdoor cable"

https://www.bhg.com/home-improve...

 

there they explain some types, perhaps you can use that to refine your search.

Last Edited: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 10:44 AM
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.not too expensive

Gotta laugh.

The text in the add says "Free..."

 

JC 

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Says that on the box of free range eggs, too... but I still have to pay every time :)

 

Neil

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Darn.

 

I though GChapman's link might be to the same link that was in a previous thread about a Farmer's Outlet shop / store that was run by a rather memorable, and picturesque, young lady.

 

No such luck.

 

JC

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There is a flexible brake line that looks rather like the "pex" material used for water piping these days. That water pipe stuff seems bloody tough. Brake line would not have to be terminated as it will go into a standard watertight cable gland in the side of an IP-65 or better enclosure at each end. The question is whether or not the bore is large enough for the necessary wires. Maybe they use bigger brake line on big trucks? Need to do some searching.

 

Thanks for the ideas...

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Note further that home improvement store 'conduit-style' cable also will attach very well and securely to 'electrical box' enclosures (bare conduit will need 'fittings').  Perhaps not the most elegant - but sturdy, durable, and not too hard to take apart when you have to.  Suggest you get the metal ones, not the plastic ones.  S.

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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ka7ehk wrote:
the "pex" material used for water piping these days. That water pipe stuff seems bloody tough.
IIRC

  • PEX-A is freeze tolerant
  • heat gun to restore PEX's shape (over-bent PEX during installation)
  • PEX seems to be "everywhere" (home improvement store, feed store, plumbing supply, ...)

ka7ehk wrote:
The question is whether or not the bore is large enough for the necessary wires.
For a few mA, strip the sheathing from Ethernet cable then bring one twisted pair with you to the store; maybe two pair if the battery box has a switch and/or temperature sensor.

ka7ehk wrote:
Need to do some searching.
Here, local NAPA auto parts store has a sign on a front window about hydraulic hose; primary context is farmers and ranchers repairing split or damaged hydraulic lines on tractors, skid steers, and fork lifts.

NAPA AUTO PARTS Kelly Automotive Supply: car parts, tools, and equipment in Bowie, TX

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Got plenty of farmers with BIG tractors and BIG hydraulics around here. Will check that path.

 

Thanks

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Some of “rigid coaxial” which pulled the inner conductor also able to prevent from rodent,squirrel,beaver,etc.

www.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.

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Coaxial cable is too costly.

 

Today coaxial cables for Tv are standardized to be 75 ohms, and size (diameter) is standardized, too. You can see chewed cable on #4 picture.

Other standard is 50 ohm, and in this standard some models does have two more layers: braided steel protection and insulation.

Such cable is heavy and rigid /and cost the earth/.

 

 

 

 

 

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ccrause wrote:
Somewhat similar idea - search for stainless steel (garden or shower) hose:
Plastic modular hose is twice the price per unit length.

Loc-Line World | Modularhose

[3/4 page]

Applications

...

 

Personal Product Design

 

The Flexible Shower Massage by Teledyne Water Pik combines a patented Loc-Line design with the Shower Massage to position the head to any height.

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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 The question is whether or not the bore is large enough for the necessary wires. 

You definitely do NOT want a tight / snug fit, or it will be darn near impossible to pull the wires / cable through the pipe / hose.

 

JC 

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Many braids, they can chew through (just move the braid wires out of the way, like when you spit open a braided wire).  

At least coax is pretty stout stuff, compared to regular wire.   I'd think it relatively cheap, since it is used in large bulk.

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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I found out that PEX is not that resistant to chewing. Rodents have caused residential problems with water piping in attics and damage happened though a large part of the house.

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Is there a reason why you don't want shiny metal conduit?  I think it was avrcandies who first pointed out ordinary conduit - it's practically designed to pull wires through, very flexible, comes in giant rolls, costs not much for what it does, and attaches firmly to electrical boxes (with the right fittings).  And doesn't get eaten.  S.

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Hello.
I would like to have your recommendations to buy good quality electrical conduction cables. I want to make this choice, because recently my dog was electrocuted because of a cable chewed by a mouse. I had to take him to the vet for treatment. I don't want this to happen again. That's why I want to buy a cable with a very thick cover.

Last Edited: Mon. Aug 22, 2022 - 09:04 PM
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because recently my dog was electrocuted because of a cable chewed by a mouse

Was your dog in the attic?  Where did it happen?  Not really practical inside your living room. Switch everything to low voltage, like living in a camper.

What will your clock radio look like with said cable?

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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... and get a cat to rid your mouse problem.

Ross McKenzie, Melbourne Australia

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The only cable known to be proofed against vermin is called SWA. Google it and you'll see why it's not practical as a flexible cable. 

 

If cables being chewed is a problem then a better solution is a regular inspection. 

#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.

#3 All grounds are not created equal

#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?

#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."

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Welcome!

RaymondAmder wrote:
... because recently my dog was electrocuted because of a cable chewed by a mouse.
fyi, AFCI will open circuit on either an arc or a ground fault; an AFCI use case is a dog chewing on a lamp cord.

A home improvement store chain had AFCI circuit breakers though apparently switched to AFCI outlets.

re rodents, here during severe and extreme droughts hungry rodents will chew anything; learned by a bit of a hard way to feed squirrels shell peanuts as acorns were low yield due to the drought.

For mice, I supplement with healthy peanut butter (no sugar); a barn cat operator feeds the cat once per day if cat's stomach is empty then the cat feeds on mice and rats for their second meal.

re mice, there's a YouTube channel on humane mouse trap design (don't recall the channel's handle, empty five gallon paint bucket, ramp, a simple inexpensive trip, bait is peanut butter); catch and release for native mice, IIRC humane CO2 kill for non-native mice that feed the local possums and raccoons.

re rats, Havahart® trap with catch and release though the coyotes stay ahead of rats except during El Nino ("rainy", numerous rats)

RaymondAmder wrote:
That's why I want to buy a cable with a very thick cover.
Plastic wire loom was enough for most of my use cases though bulk armored electrical cable from a home improvement store became preferred for barns and sheds.

Contractor-grade extension cord is likely enough; similar for yard men as the insulation needs to be cut resistant (string trimmers)

Seen one service cable (pole to house external conduit) that a squirrel chewed; usually that kind of cable has insulation that's not tasty.

 


What is an AFCI | AFCI Safety

SIEMENS Miniature Circuit Breaker: 20 A Amps, 120V AC, Single Phase, 10kA at 120V AC, 1 Poles - 34AN33|QA120AFC - Grainger

Afci at Lowes.com: Search Results

Live Animal Traps & Repellents - Havahart®

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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gchapman wrote:

]Plastic wire loom was enough for most of my use cases though bulk armored electrical cable from a home improvement store became preferred for barns and sheds.

 

In the UK, if the risk of vermin exists, then armoured cable or metal conduit is mandated.

#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.

#3 All grounds are not created equal

#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?

#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."

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avrcandies wrote:
Switch everything to low voltage, like living in a camper.
There are DC circuit breakers though could create a fast equivalent; use case is 48 volt data centers.

Logistics engineer said he could see an arc when de-mating a connector (medium truck, 24 volt SLA); made a software change such that the operator could de-energize the circuit during maintenance.

SELV tops at 60 Vdc or 30 Vrms; IIRC, DBS is 30 Vrms max to the LNA.

 

How to Protect Circuits from Overcurrent Spikes | onsemi (CSA, comparator, PFET)

24 V load switches are somewhat common (protected NFET; tractor, semi-tractor, medium truck); greater voltages exist due to EV.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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In the barn, 240 Vrms is inside a conduit (circuit for arc welder); remainder is flexible armored cable.

240 Vrms to the barn's water well house is burial-rated plastic-sheathed cable though didn't survive the ditch digger (if the cable was only an inch deeper, plows don't go as deep); oil wells are connected by similar cable though thicker and greater voltage (conduit from transformer to the pole's switch box, pumpjack has an AC induction motor)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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I believe UK wiring regulations mandate all fixed wiring in accessible locations shall be enclosed. (by conduit etc.)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if US wiring reg.s are similar.

 

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So, I really wanted to post these earlier, but I couldn't find them on my computer...

And then I found them looking for another photo!

 

On my back patio I have a small bird bath, to provide water for the birds.

It has a heater, so one can leave it out all winter, and the water won't freeze.

 

Great plan.

 

Except for the squirrels and whatnot in the area.

 

These shots are from the Spring, snow gone, doing some clean up yard work.

 

The cord was a "Heavy Duty" outdoor rated extension cord, to reach from the outlet to the bird bath. 

 

What the heck?  Wow!

 

JC

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...

#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.

#3 All grounds are not created equal

#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?

#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."

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You should post some signs warning of high voltage, then it will be their own fault for chewing on the wires.

We had a lot of people complaining "kids" were cutting Christmas lights in the bushes.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!