"Armored" cable?

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ka7ehk
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Posted by ka7ehk: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 05:51 AM
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Greetings -

 

Designing a new instrument that has the option of a secondary "power pack" a short distance (maybe up to a few meters) away. Environment is temperate to boreal forests. These instruments may be deployed for a fairly long time (possibly 6 months or more). Animal damage is a significant possibility; think squirrels. porcupines, and such. I am looking for a cable that might be nominally resistant to these creatures. Cable will be two conductor, maybe 16-18AWG or so. Currents are low (few mA). I realize that no cable can be totally resistant, but something that will withstand a casual assault would be helpful.

 

Suggestions, especially based on experience, are appreciated.

 

Thanks

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Learning and Information, General Electronics, Texas, modular hose
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Brian Fairchild
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Posted by Brian Fairchild: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 05:58 AM
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My immediate thought was 'SY' cable. It's way thicker than you need but available everywhere.

 

 

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Although they are not UV stable.

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Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 06:01 AM
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grohote
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Posted by grohote: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 06:25 AM
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Visiting shipyard, I noted that each and every cable is armored, consult them. Or air-services supply store.

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avrcandies
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Posted by avrcandies: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 06:48 AM
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Find out what was used on payphone handsets...that's tough stuff

 

https://www.payphone.com/1-4-Arm...

..maybe cheaper elsewhere (if comes with 4 conductors, they could be put in parallel)

 

also

https://www.commscope.com/blog/2...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Electridu...

 

I was gonna suggest cable tv braided coax, but seems  like it gets attacked

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 07:13 AM
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N.Winterbottom
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Posted by N.Winterbottom: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 07:26 AM
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How about regular cable inside a stainless steel tube. It's likely to be much cheaper solution.

 

> I was gonna suggest cable tv braided coax, but seems  like it gets attacked

It certainly does; and then or course, water gets in and because of the air spacing finds its way down the cable into the receiver.

 

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grohote
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Posted by grohote: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 07:39 AM
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avrcandies wrote:
it gets attacked

 

... whenever you left fingerprints. There must be a solution for removing it. The last measure: add a nasty smell.

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avrcandies
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Posted by avrcandies: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:11 AM
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The last measure: add a nasty smell.

I smell a rat cheeky 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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grohote
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Posted by grohote: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:26 AM
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avrcandies wrote:
a rat

 

They adore a smell of smoked stuff...it takes time to realize a cable is not a tiny chorizo sausage...

 

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ccrause
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Posted by ccrause: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:38 AM
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avrcandies wrote:
Find out what was used on payphone handsets...that's tough stuff

N.Winterbottom wrote:
How about regular cable inside a stainless steel tube. It's likely to be much cheaper solution.

 

Somewhat similar idea - search for stainless steel (garden or shower) hose:

Much cheaper than what @avrcandies showed (although those payphone handset cables were tough!).  Or search for braided stainless steel hose - a little bit more expensive perhaps, but may look neater:

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Jeckson
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Posted by Jeckson: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:54 AM
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ka7ehk wrote:
These instruments may be deployed for a fairly long time (possibly 6 months or more). Animal damage is a significant possibility; think squirrels. porcupines, and such. I am looking for a cable that might be nominally resistant to these creatures.
garden or shower hose around 1 US$ at Home Depo

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grohote
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Posted by grohote: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 09:02 AM
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Too thin? Take two...

 

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:06 PM (Reply to #4)
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avrcandies wrote:

 

Flex Conduit at Lowes.com

 

edit :

avrcandies wrote:
I was gonna suggest cable tv braided coax, but seems  like it gets attacked
Is photovoltaic cable resistant to rodents?  (double insulated)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:10 PM
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kk6gm
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Posted by kk6gm: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:16 PM
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I too would recommend metal-wrapped shower hose.  A quick check on Amazon shows lengths up to 118 inches.

 

BTW, as a child my dad had a huge wooden spool of armored cable in the basement, origins unknown.  I used it to wire up a batch of outlets on a bench I made - I was probably about 12.  As far as I know, my parents never knew that I was tapping into the wiring in my youthful ignorance.  I'm sure the insurance company would not have been amused.

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ki0bk
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Posted by ki0bk: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:18 PM
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Home Depot, armored romex

https://www.grainger.com/product...

 

I did like the suggestion of armored pay phone handset cable, but have no idea where you would get it.

 

Jim

 

 

FF = PI > S.E.T

 

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:33 PM
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ka7ehk wrote:
Suggestions, especially based on experience, are appreciated.
For residential attics occupied by rats, squirrels, and raccoons I've found that plastic wire looms are adequate though I prefer armored cable from the home improvement store.

Cable trays are in plenums above a room's ceiling tiles though I have zero experience with that and how to keep Ethernet cables from being chewed upon (is plenum-rated cable not tasty due to a fire rating?)

If the forest's beings are well fed then the likelihood of damage is reduced except for the one who's simply pissed off at the presence of a cablesmiley

My experience is feed the squirrels else they'll gnaw during a severe drought (Texas Cross Timbers)

 

TPWD:Cross Timbers (STATE OF TEXAS)

 

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:41 PM (Reply to #3)
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Some mechatronics cable is armored (industrial robots, external auxiliary power units to aircraft where cables lay on the tarmac)

 

edit :

Another use case is container lifts (inter-modal transportation)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 02:38 PM
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barnacle
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Posted by barnacle: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 01:56 PM
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Second (third?) vote for shower pipe or braided stainless steel hose (which a decent car spares place should be able to cut to length and terminate to suit with some sort of compression fitting).

 

But the shower hose will be cheapest.

 

Neil

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www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 02:07 PM (Reply to #17)
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barnacle wrote:
(which a decent car spares place should be able to cut to length and terminate to suit with some sort of compression fitting)
Some automotive parts stores will cut and terminate hydraulic hose which should be tough enough.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Scroungre
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Posted by Scroungre: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 06:30 PM
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There exists steel-jacketed coax (use the shield as return), too:

 

https://ssicable.com/

 

Not cheap, and beastly to work with, but can tolerate just about anything.  S.

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ka7ehk
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Posted by ka7ehk: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 07:38 PM
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Thanks, folks -

 

Time to take a thorough walk through the big box home improvement store. I like the idea of wire inside a hose or tube, especially if it is even a little flexible.

 

Appreciate the ideas,

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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avrcandies
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Posted by avrcandies: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:23 PM
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I almost bought one of these a few years back for the garden...not too expensive

 

 

Here's some more variety  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/...

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 08:31 PM
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meslomp
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Posted by meslomp: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 10:43 AM
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looking for something like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwi...

 

 

 

edit:

 

I also came across this when searching for "outdoor cable"

https://www.bhg.com/home-improve...

 

there they explain some types, perhaps you can use that to refine your search.

Last Edited: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 10:44 AM
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DocJC
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Posted by DocJC: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 12:11 PM
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.not too expensive

Gotta laugh.

The text in the add says "Free..."

 

JC 

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barnacle
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Posted by barnacle: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 04:56 PM
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Says that on the box of free range eggs, too... but I still have to pay every time :)

 

Neil

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 05:19 PM (Reply to #24)
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Could be "worse"

JUST GOT LAID Claughton's Pastured Produce Pasture Raised Eggs

Claughton's Pastured Produce - FRESH AND EARLY FRUITS AND VEGETABLES (RETAIL), FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES (WHOLESALE), Cummins - Claughton S Pastured Produce in Cummins - - AU103131646 - Local Infobel.AU

 

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DocJC
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Posted by DocJC: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 06:44 PM
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Darn.

 

I though GChapman's link might be to the same link that was in a previous thread about a Farmer's Outlet shop / store that was run by a rather memorable, and picturesque, young lady.

 

No such luck.

 

JC

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ka7ehk
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Posted by ka7ehk: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 07:38 PM
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There is a flexible brake line that looks rather like the "pex" material used for water piping these days. That water pipe stuff seems bloody tough. Brake line would not have to be terminated as it will go into a standard watertight cable gland in the side of an IP-65 or better enclosure at each end. The question is whether or not the bore is large enough for the necessary wires. Maybe they use bigger brake line on big trucks? Need to do some searching.

 

Thanks for the ideas...

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Scroungre
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Posted by Scroungre: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 07:56 PM
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Note further that home improvement store 'conduit-style' cable also will attach very well and securely to 'electrical box' enclosures (bare conduit will need 'fittings').  Perhaps not the most elegant - but sturdy, durable, and not too hard to take apart when you have to.  Suggest you get the metal ones, not the plastic ones.  S.

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 08:04 PM (Reply to #26)
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laugh

Doing Business on a Friday | AVR Freaks

 

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Fri. Apr 22, 2022 - 08:29 PM (Reply to #27)
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ka7ehk wrote:
the "pex" material used for water piping these days. That water pipe stuff seems bloody tough.
IIRC

  • PEX-A is freeze tolerant
  • heat gun to restore PEX's shape (over-bent PEX during installation)
  • PEX seems to be "everywhere" (home improvement store, feed store, plumbing supply, ...)

ka7ehk wrote:
The question is whether or not the bore is large enough for the necessary wires.
For a few mA, strip the sheathing from Ethernet cable then bring one twisted pair with you to the store; maybe two pair if the battery box has a switch and/or temperature sensor.

ka7ehk wrote:
Need to do some searching.
Here, local NAPA auto parts store has a sign on a front window about hydraulic hose; primary context is farmers and ranchers repairing split or damaged hydraulic lines on tractors, skid steers, and fork lifts.

NAPA AUTO PARTS Kelly Automotive Supply: car parts, tools, and equipment in Bowie, TX

 

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ka7ehk
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Posted by ka7ehk: Sat. Apr 23, 2022 - 12:32 AM
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Got plenty of farmers with BIG tractors and BIG hydraulics around here. Will check that path.

 

Thanks

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Jeckson
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Posted by Jeckson: Sat. Apr 23, 2022 - 09:17 AM
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Some of “rigid coaxial” which pulled the inner conductor also able to prevent from rodent,squirrel,beaver,etc.

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grohote
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Posted by grohote: Sat. Apr 23, 2022 - 11:17 AM
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Coaxial cable is too costly.

 

Today coaxial cables for Tv are standardized to be 75 ohms, and size (diameter) is standardized, too. You can see chewed cable on #4 picture.

Other standard is 50 ohm, and in this standard some models does have two more layers: braided steel protection and insulation.

Such cable is heavy and rigid /and cost the earth/.

 

 

 

 

 

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Sat. Apr 23, 2022 - 01:04 PM (Reply to #9)
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ccrause wrote:
Somewhat similar idea - search for stainless steel (garden or shower) hose:
Plastic modular hose is twice the price per unit length.

Loc-Line World | Modularhose

[3/4 page]

Applications

...

 

Personal Product Design

 

The Flexible Shower Massage by Teledyne Water Pik combines a patented Loc-Line design with the Shower Massage to position the head to any height.

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DocJC
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Posted by DocJC: Sat. Apr 23, 2022 - 02:34 PM
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 The question is whether or not the bore is large enough for the necessary wires. 

You definitely do NOT want a tight / snug fit, or it will be darn near impossible to pull the wires / cable through the pipe / hose.

 

JC 

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avrcandies
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Posted by avrcandies: Sat. Apr 23, 2022 - 03:33 PM (Reply to #33)
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Many braids, they can chew through (just move the braid wires out of the way, like when you spit open a braided wire).  

At least coax is pretty stout stuff, compared to regular wire.   I'd think it relatively cheap, since it is used in large bulk.

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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ka7ehk
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Posted by ka7ehk: Sun. Apr 24, 2022 - 01:59 AM
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I found out that PEX is not that resistant to chewing. Rodents have caused residential problems with water piping in attics and damage happened though a large part of the house.

 

Jim

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

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Posted by Scroungre: Sun. Apr 24, 2022 - 02:29 AM
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Is there a reason why you don't want shiny metal conduit?  I think it was avrcandies who first pointed out ordinary conduit - it's practically designed to pull wires through, very flexible, comes in giant rolls, costs not much for what it does, and attaches firmly to electrical boxes (with the right fittings).  And doesn't get eaten.  S.

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